From alug_cdw@the-walker-household.co.uk Mon Sep  1 09:59:31 2014
From: Chris Walker <alug_cdw@the-walker-household.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Power on hours wrong?
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 09:59:30 +0100
Message-ID: <20140901095930.641a067f@the-walker-household.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <20140831215430.GG22024@electron>
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On Sun, 31 Aug 2014 22:54:30 +0100
Adam Bower <adam(a)thebowery.co.uk> wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 06:01:33PM +0100, Chris Walker wrote:
> > 
> > Is it simply because the common disc is used for both operating
> > systems? If that's true, then this isn't a true reading for power-on
> > hours as although the linux disc isn't being used, it's still
> > powered on.
> 
> It probably isn't powered on though, when windows starts up it
> probably takes a look at the partition table and then goes "nope" and
> puts the disk into standby so it isn't really doing anything. If it
> wanted to speak to the disk it would tell the controller and it would
> get woken up again.

Ah. Hadn't thought that Windows would be that clever ;-)

-- 
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From viperfang@gmail.com Tue Sep  2 03:00:14 2014
From: Viperfang <viperfang@gmail.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] 2600 meeting at 18:00 on Friday the 5th September.
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 02:00:15 +0000
Message-ID: <164079118769.261833.402462677245819340.generated@the.earth.li>
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Quick heads up about this months Norwich 2600 meeting,
more info at http://www.norwich2600.co.uk


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From alug_cdw@the-walker-household.co.uk Wed Sep  3 13:07:41 2014
From: Chris Walker <alug_cdw@the-walker-household.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] mp3splt and regex
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 13:07:26 +0100
Message-ID: <20140903130726.6865ea7c@the-walker-household.co.uk>
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Hello,

I'm struggling to split an mp3 file and simultaneously enter some tags
in to the output.

The input filename which is a get_iplayer download looks like this
'David_Rodigan_-_02_09_2014.mp3' and my problem is adding tags to the
output. How do I make 'David_Rodigan' appear as 'title' in the output
tags? I guessed that David would appear as first_part and Rodigan as
second_part but I can't see a way to concatenate those two items to
form title.

My attempt looks like this :-
mp3splt -G (?<title>):first_part+" "+second_part
David_Rodigan_-_02_09_2014.mp3 3.00 60.00
-o /split/David_Rodigan_-_02_09_2014

But that fails with bash: syntax error near unexpected token `('

I'm looking at this page for inspiration but it isn't helping!

http://mp3splt.sourceforge.net/mp3splt_page/documentation/man.html

Perhaps somebody here can explain where I'm going wrong please?

-- 
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From mark@quarella.co.uk Fri Sep  5 10:50:12 2014
From: Mark Rogers <mark@quarella.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] Is it safe to abort a duplicate dd reimage?
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 10:49:49 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CADK3ZeHC4M2N-L3fyQXWgn=AmbaxJVN8F0rYKue6+3eCBbhC4A@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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So I have dd running in one terminal, copying an image to an SD card,
and occasionally run "kill -USR1 <pid>" (where <pid> is the dd process
id) in another to prod dd into giving me some status info.

Every so often I go back to the second terminal, hit "up"+"enter" to
re-run the command, and flick back to the first to check progress.

Except on one occasion I hit "up"/"enter" on the first terminal, where
it had no effect as dd was already running, so I forgot about it.
Of-course when dd finished the terminal then grabbed the up/enter from
the keyboard buffer and started to re-image the SD card.

Given that I'm writing a duplicate image over the top of the SD card
is it "safe" to kill the second dd or is there a risk that the SD card
will end up corrupt?

It's only a 4GB card so I'm not expecting an answer before it's too
late to matter, this is more idle curiosity. Unless it turns out I hit
up+enter more times than I thought....

Mark
-- 
Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0844 251 1450
Registered in England (0456 0902) @ 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG


--===============9032891594139698551==--


From mark@quarella.co.uk Fri Sep  5 11:29:06 2014
From: Mark Rogers <mark@quarella.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] Disabling BEL on tab auto-complete
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 11:28:43 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CADK3ZeG5hD08RWxnK+_yAkYpQexAhYcEUhWBM6WnhsNOSN+Jnw@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8452224199971567643=="

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I like to have my PC respond to BEL characters in the terminal, eg to
report servers that I'm SSH'd into shutting down when I'm not looking
at them. But doing this and retaining the tab auto-complete BEL sound
means my PC is constantly making bell sounds.

Putting
    set bell-style none
in /etc/inputrc fixes this, except I need to put it into each server I
ever SSH into, which is neither practical or desirable (as it affects
other users of those servers).

Any suggestions? I suspect that I'm going to be stuck as I need my
local PC to recognise that the BEL it received came from another
server's auto-complete, as opposed to something on another server that
I care about. But maybe someone here has an intelligent suggestion
that I'm too dumb to have thought of?

Mark
-- 
Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0844 251 1450
Registered in England (0456 0902) @ 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG


--===============8452224199971567643==--


From bjsamuels@beenthere-donethat.org.uk Fri Sep  5 16:44:01 2014
From: Barry Samuels <bjsamuels@beenthere-donethat.org.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] Apache mod_rewrite
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 16:43:35 +0100
Message-ID: <1409931815.30082.0@dataman1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have an .htaccess rule so:

RewriteCond %{REMOTE_HOST} !beenthere-donethat\.org\.uk$ [NC]
RewriteRule ^(folder/colchester1\.html)$ /folder/tempredir.php?page=$1 
[R=302,L]

The second line has been wrapped by the mailer but it is actually all on 
one line.

That doesn't work. If I ask for 
http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk/folder/colchester1.html then that is 
what I get. No redirection. What am I doing wrong?

I do have other rules in .htaccess which all work normally.

What I'm trying to achieve is this - I want, eventually, to redirect all 
pages to the tempredir page with a link on that page which will then take 
the vistor to the page they requested originally.

I don't want any visitor to be redirected yet until I've finished testing 
so I've put a page (colchester1.html) in a sub-directory that visitors do 
not normally visit so that I can test it first.

I would test it locally on my home version of the site but, for some 
reason, redirection on my home computer won't work at all even though the 
Apache module is enabled.

-- 
Barry Samuels
http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk
The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain


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From noodles@earth.li Fri Sep  5 18:19:01 2014
From: Jonathan McDowell <noodles@earth.li>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Disabling BEL on tab auto-complete
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 18:19:01 +0100
Message-ID: <20140905171901.GZ13074@earth.li>
In-Reply-To:
 <CADK3ZeG5hD08RWxnK+_yAkYpQexAhYcEUhWBM6WnhsNOSN+Jnw@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Fri, Sep 05, 2014 at 11:28:43AM +0100, Mark Rogers wrote:
> I like to have my PC respond to BEL characters in the terminal, eg to
> report servers that I'm SSH'd into shutting down when I'm not looking
> at them. But doing this and retaining the tab auto-complete BEL sound
> means my PC is constantly making bell sounds.
> 
> Putting
>     set bell-style none
> in /etc/inputrc fixes this, except I need to put it into each server I
> ever SSH into, which is neither practical or desirable (as it affects
> other users of those servers).
> 
> Any suggestions? I suspect that I'm going to be stuck as I need my
> local PC to recognise that the BEL it received came from another
> server's auto-complete, as opposed to something on another server that
> I care about. But maybe someone here has an intelligent suggestion
> that I'm too dumb to have thought of?

Put it in ~/.inputrc? You still have to do it once per server but then
it only affects your user.

J.

-- 
Web [    If at first you don't succeed, create an "NT" version.    ]
site: http:// [                                          ]       Made by
www.earth.li/~noodles/  [                      ]         HuggieTag 0.0.24


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From viperfang@gmail.com Mon Sep  8 08:47:08 2014
From: Viperfang <viperfang@gmail.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] [ALUG Announce] ALUG Norwich Pub Meet Thursday 11th September
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 08:47:01 +0100
Message-ID: <E1XQtfB-00012S-5i@the.earth.li>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1558091935981754858=="

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ALUG Announce

Please send announcements to Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk
Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce
-----
Hello Norwich Aluggers,

Our monthly ALUG Norwich social meeting will be held this Thursday,
11th September at The Coach and Horses (82 Thorpe Road, Norwich, NR1 1BA).

The meeting officially starts at 8pm, although some people may arrive
earlier. More information on those people can be found on the list and
the IRC channel. If you are unsure if you will recognise us then make
yourself and your intent to attend known by either posting on list or
visiting us on IRC so we can look out for you rather than hiding in
the corner. Optionally you could ask at the bar if they know where the
geeky computer weirdos are and they'll point you in the right direction
(seriously!). Another possibility is look for heaps of electronics on a
table that may possibly look like movie props that would used for
detonating explosives.

Feel free to bring electronics/laptops/gadgets to the meet, you will by
no means be alone.

Ben Bewick aka Viperfang

NB: This mail is automated, please refer to the usual sources for more
information.

ALUG Contact Details:
Website : http://www.alug.org.uk/
IRC     : #alug on irc.alug.org.uk
List    : http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo
Twitter : http://twitter.com/anglianlug
Identica: TBA
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2381613902

-----
Send discussion replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk (Reply-To set)
Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce


--===============1558091935981754858==--


From mark@quarella.co.uk Mon Sep  8 09:57:03 2014
From: Mark Rogers <mark@quarella.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Disabling BEL on tab auto-complete
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 09:56:41 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CADK3ZeHuhtVA6BgfyOUME2OpQspp+XE6gzNQmBXTYiiB178x6w@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20140905171901.GZ13074@earth.li>
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On 5 September 2014 18:19, Jonathan McDowell <noodles(a)earth.li> wrote:
>
> Put it in ~/.inputrc? You still have to do it once per server but then
> it only affects your user.


Good point, thanks.

I was hoping there might be a way to set an environment variable via
SSH that would be used at the server end on connection but I haven't
found anything useful.
-- 
Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0844 251 1450
Registered in England (0456 0902) @ 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG


--===============6073077792258019077==--


From cl@isbd.net Tue Sep  9 09:09:00 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] nologin warning - any ideas what causes it?
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 09:08:55 +0100
Message-ID: <20140909080854.GA11156@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I keep getting the following in my logwatch output:-


 --------------------- Connections (secure-log) Begin ------------------------


 **Unmatched Entries**
    nologin: Attempted login by UNKNOWN on UNKNOWN: 1 Time(s)



Does anyone have any idea what might be causing it?  It's separate
from the sshd report so isn't an ssh attempt from 'outside'. =20


... and here's the /var/log record of it:-

auth.log:Sep  8 08:20:04 chris nologin: Attempted login by UNKNOWN on UNKNOWN
auth.log:Sep  9 08:27:00 chris nologin: Attempted login by UNKNOWN on UNKNOWN
auth.log.1:Sep  2 08:05:26 chris nologin: Attempted login by UNKNOWN on UNKNO=
WN
auth.log.1:Sep  3 08:31:55 chris nologin: Attempted login by UNKNOWN on UNKNO=
WN
auth.log.1:Sep  4 08:26:50 chris nologin: Attempted login by UNKNOWN on UNKNO=
WN
auth.log.1:Sep  5 08:21:08 chris nologin: Attempted login by UNKNOWN on UNKNO=
WN
auth.log.1:Sep  6 08:24:48 chris nologin: Attempted login by UNKNOWN on UNKNO=
WN
auth.log.1:Sep  7 08:23:18 chris nologin: Attempted login by UNKNOWN on UNKNO=
WN


So it's happening some time after eight every morning.


... and further, here's the context from auth.log :-

Sep  8 08:20:01 chris CRON[16693]: pam_unix(cron:session): session opened for=
 user chris by (uid=3D0)
Sep  8 08:20:02 chris CRON[16693]: pam_unix(cron:session): session closed for=
 user chris
Sep  8 08:20:03 chris su[16743]: Successful su for news by root
Sep  8 08:20:03 chris su[16743]: + ??? root:news
Sep  8 08:20:03 chris su[16743]: pam_unix(su:session): session opened for use=
r news by (uid=3D0)
Sep  8 08:20:03 chris systemd-logind[1106]: Removed session c6.
Sep  8 08:20:03 chris systemd-logind[1106]: New session c7 of user news.
Sep  8 08:20:04 chris nologin: Attempted login by UNKNOWN on UNKNOWN
Sep  8 08:20:04 chris su[16743]: pam_unix(su:session): session closed for use=
r news
Sep  8 08:20:04 chris su[16800]: Successful su for nobody by root
Sep  8 08:20:04 chris su[16800]: + ??? root:nobody
Sep  8 08:20:04 chris su[16800]: pam_unix(su:session): session opened for use=
r nobody by (uid=3D0)
Sep  8 08:20:04 chris systemd-logind[1106]: Removed session c7.
Sep  8 08:20:04 chris systemd-logind[1106]: New session c8 of user nobody.
Sep  8 08:20:04 chris su[16800]: pam_unix(su:session): session closed for use=
r nobody
Sep  8 08:20:04 chris su[16813]: Successful su for nobody by root
Sep  8 08:20:04 chris su[16813]: + ??? root:nobody
Sep  8 08:20:04 chris su[16813]: pam_unix(su:session): session opened for use=
r nobody by (uid=3D0)
Sep  8 08:20:04 chris systemd-logind[1106]: Removed session c8.
Sep  8 08:20:04 chris systemd-logind[1106]: New session c9 of user nobody.
Sep  8 08:20:04 chris su[16813]: pam_unix(su:session): session closed for use=
r nobody =20
Sep  8 08:20:04 chris su[16834]: Successful su for nobody by root
Sep  8 08:20:04 chris su[16834]: + ??? root:nobody
Sep  8 08:20:04 chris su[16834]: pam_unix(su:session): session opened for use=
r nobody by (uid=3D0)
Sep  8 08:20:04 chris systemd-logind[1106]: Removed session c9.
Sep  8 08:20:04 chris systemd-logind[1106]: New session c10 of user nobody.
Sep  8 08:25:01 chris CRON[16935]: pam_unix(cron:session): session opened for=
 user chris by (uid=3D0)
Sep  8 08:30:34 chris CRON[16935]: pam_unix(cron:session): session closed for=
 user chris
Sep  8 08:31:39 chris su[16834]: pam_unix(su:session): session closed for use=
r nobody

--=20
Chris Green


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From laurie@brownowl.com Tue Sep  9 10:34:56 2014
From: Laurie Brown <laurie@brownowl.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] nologin warning - any ideas what causes it?
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 10:35:03 +0100
Message-ID: <540EC9C7.4000002@brownowl.com>
In-Reply-To: <20140909080854.GA11156@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 09/09/14 09:08, Chris Green wrote:
> I keep getting the following in my logwatch output:-
>=20
>=20
>  --------------------- Connections (secure-log) Begin ---------------------=
---
>=20
>=20
>  **Unmatched Entries**
>     nologin: Attempted login by UNKNOWN on UNKNOWN: 1 Time(s)

[SNIP]

No IP addresses there, so I'd write a cron job to run tcpdump around the
time this happens and see what IP addresses are coming in on those
ports... If none, then it's a local problem. If they are there, then ban
them.

I have no idea what's likely to be doing it, but I'm sure you'll find out!

Some clues here:

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2006-July/126813.html
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2006-July/126886.html
http://spamassassin.1065346.n5.nabble.com/nologin-Attempted-login-by-root-on-=
UNKNOWN-td19064.html

One clue that came up was:

"Something running *as* root is trying to "su" to an account which has
/bin/nologin as a shell"

Good luck!

Cheers, Laurie.
--=20
---------------------------------------------------------------------
                               Laurie Brown
                           laurie(a)brownowl.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------


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From lumos@gmx.co.uk Thu Sep 11 06:22:56 2014
From: Bev Nicolson <lumos@gmx.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] Broadband puzzle
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 06:17:52 +0100
Message-ID: <54113080.7040205@gmx.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Me again. I hope this is on topic.

I like to download a few podcasts from time to time from the BBC and 
audioboo but recently it's been taking roughly twice as long for them to 
be saved. It also looks as though it's trying to do two at a time though 
only one remains on my desktop at the end. Any ideas? (Firefox 26.0) 
(It's fine for using iPlayer, though.)

Bev


--===============7621125392271198032==--


From lumos@gmx.co.uk Thu Sep 11 06:24:02 2014
From: Bev Nicolson <lumos@gmx.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] Thunderbird oddness
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 06:11:26 +0100
Message-ID: <54112EFE.7060600@gmx.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6742278360300353502=="

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Thunderbird seems to be selective about which emails it marks as replied 
to with the blue arrow now so I'm uncertain whether they've been sent or 
not. I haven't changed any settings so does anyone know why this might 
be? (24.2.0)

Bev.


--===============6742278360300353502==--


From tony.anson@girolle.co.uk Thu Sep 11 14:35:42 2014
From: Anthony Anson <tony.anson@girolle.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Thunderbird oddness
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 14:35:36 +0100
Message-ID: <5411A528.8070709@girolle.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <54112EFE.7060600@gmx.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 11/09/14 06:11, Bev Nicolson wrote:
> Thunderbird seems to be selective about which emails it marks as replied
> to with the blue arrow now so I'm uncertain whether they've been sent or
> not. I haven't changed any settings so does anyone know why this might
> be? (24.2.0)

AFAIK the blue marker shows the items you have replied to (and sent).

-- 
Tony
http://www.girolle.co.uk/


--===============2001442008169668325==--


From lumos@gmx.co.uk Thu Sep 11 16:00:28 2014
From: Bev Nicolson <lumos@gmx.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Thunderbird oddness
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 16:00:25 +0100
Message-ID: <5411B909.8020709@gmx.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <5411A528.8070709@girolle.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2554075497411155056=="

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On 11/09/14 14:35, Anthony Anson wrote:
> On 11/09/14 06:11, Bev Nicolson wrote:
>> Thunderbird seems to be selective about which emails it marks as replied
>> to with the blue arrow now so I'm uncertain whether they've been sent or
>> not. I haven't changed any settings so does anyone know why this might
>> be? (24.2.0)
>
> AFAIK the blue marker shows the items you have replied to (and sent).
>
Hence my puzzle. As far as I'm concerned they've been replied to and 
sent but no marker is given (for some.)

Bev.


--===============2554075497411155056==--


From Ted.Harding@wlandres.net Thu Sep 11 18:40:17 2014
From: Ted.Harding@wlandres.net
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Thunderbird oddness
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 18:22:14 +0100
Message-ID: <XFMail.20140911182214.Ted.Harding@wlandres.net>
In-Reply-To: <5411B909.8020709@gmx.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 11-Sep-2014 15:00:25 Bev Nicolson wrote:
> On 11/09/14 14:35, Anthony Anson wrote:
>> On 11/09/14 06:11, Bev Nicolson wrote:
>>> Thunderbird seems to be selective about which emails it marks as replied
>>> to with the blue arrow now so I'm uncertain whether they've been sent or
>>> not. I haven't changed any settings so does anyone know why this might
>>> be? (24.2.0)
>>
>> AFAIK the blue marker shows the items you have replied to (and sent).
>>
> Hence my puzzle. As far as I'm concerned they've been replied to and 
> sent but no marker is given (for some.)
> 
> Bev.

Bev, I don't know if this could apply to you (but maybe something
similar might).
 
Since I receive my mail at an IMAP server at 1and1, and then download
it from there (after deleting stuff I know I won't want to look at),
I can, whenever I send an email, Bcc it to my account at 1and1
(as well as saving it in my local sent-mail folder). My mailer
is sdet up to automatically do this.

Then I know for sure whether the outgoing email has been received
at my ISP (Zen) and then sent on. At times I have found this to be
a useful check, since sometimes something goes wrong and it doesn't
get sent. This can happen locally ... (in particular if I forget
to click the "Send" option when there are outgoing mails sitting
in my outbox; but other types of failure are also possible).

So, if it is possible that some of your replies are not being sent,
then you could perhaps check for this in such a way.

Hoping this helps, Bev!
Ted.

-------------------------------------------------
E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)wlandres.net>
Date: 11-Sep-2014  Time: 18:22:11
This message was sent by XFMail
-------------------------------------------------


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From cl@isbd.net Sat Sep 13 19:09:21 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] How to find IPs on a wireless network?
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 19:09:17 +0100
Message-ID: <20140913180916.GA3242@chris>
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If I have a wired connection to my LAN I can use 'arp-scan -l' to find
the IP addresses of other systems on the LAN.  However arp-scan only
works if *I* have a hard-wired connection.

How can one find IP addresses on a LAN when connected by WiFi?

-- 
Chris Green


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From cl@isbd.net Sat Sep 13 19:26:41 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to find IPs on a wireless network?
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 19:26:38 +0100
Message-ID: <20140913182638.GA3855@chris>
In-Reply-To: <a56bb190-a19c-4c45-802e-f1b1d7f1c7cf@email.android.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 07:12:29PM +0100, Laurie Brown wrote:
>    On 13 September 2014 19:09:17 BST, Chris Green <cl(a)isbd.net> wrote:
> 
>  If I have a wired connection to my LAN I can use 'arp-scan -l' to find
>  the IP addresses of other systems on the LAN.  However arp-scan only
>  works if *I* have a hard-wired connection.
> 
>  How can one find IP addresses on a LAN when connected by WiFi?
> 
>    Try an Android device running fring...
> 
Not a lot of help when I'm sitting here on a boat in France with two
Beaglebone Black systems, an IBM Lenovo laptop, a Siemens Gigaset VOIP
phone, an internet radio, but nothing running Android.

-- 
Chris Green


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From lentonp@gmail.com Sat Sep 13 20:29:51 2014
From: Paul Lenton <lentonp@gmail.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to find IPs on a wireless network?
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 20:29:46 +0100
Message-ID: <569be861-1715-4870-a395-961c0d876d34@email.android.com>
In-Reply-To: <20140913182638.GA3855@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Does nmap -sL [lan.address.number.*] | grep lan do what you want?

It's how I search for anything on my home network - using 192.168.1.* it sear=
ches all ips on my network. The pipe to grep just saves you searching through=
 a huge list of "None"

Paul

On 13 September 2014 19:26:38 GMT+01:00, Chris Green <cl(a)isbd.net> wrote:
>On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 07:12:29PM +0100, Laurie Brown wrote:
>>    On 13 September 2014 19:09:17 BST, Chris Green <cl(a)isbd.net>
>wrote:
>>=20
>>  If I have a wired connection to my LAN I can use 'arp-scan -l' to
>find
>>  the IP addresses of other systems on the LAN.  However arp-scan only
>>  works if *I* have a hard-wired connection.
>>=20
>>  How can one find IP addresses on a LAN when connected by WiFi?
>>=20
>>    Try an Android device running fring...
>>=20
>Not a lot of help when I'm sitting here on a boat in France with two
>Beaglebone Black systems, an IBM Lenovo laptop, a Siemens Gigaset VOIP
>phone, an internet radio, but nothing running Android.

--=20
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.


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From lentonp@gmail.com Sat Sep 13 20:38:34 2014
From: Paul <lentonp@gmail.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to find IPs on a wireless network?
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 20:38:32 +0100
Message-ID: <54149D38.2030001@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20140913182638.GA3855@chris>
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On 13/09/14 19:26, Chris Green wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 07:12:29PM +0100, Laurie Brown wrote:
>>     On 13 September 2014 19:09:17 BST, Chris Green <cl(a)isbd.net> wrote:
>>
>>   If I have a wired connection to my LAN I can use 'arp-scan -l' to find
>>   the IP addresses of other systems on the LAN.  However arp-scan only
>>   works if *I* have a hard-wired connection.
>>
>>   How can one find IP addresses on a LAN when connected by WiFi?
>>
>>     Try an Android device running fring...
>>
> Not a lot of help when I'm sitting here on a boat in France with two
> Beaglebone Black systems, an IBM Lenovo laptop, a Siemens Gigaset VOIP
> phone, an internet radio, but nothing running Android.
>

It's possible my reply has sent twice, as I'm having some problems with 
K9 Mail on my phone but...

Does  "nmap -sL 192.168.1.* (or whatever the LAN address is) | grep lan" 
do what you're after?

The -sL flag is the basic scan (you could use -pn for a ping scan, if 
everything had an open port to respond) and various others (check the 
manpage for a full list of scan types) and will return a list of IP 
addresses and device names for everything that matches the IP range and 
has a .lan network address.


Paul


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From mail@wbh.org Sun Sep 14 11:49:03 2014
From: William Hill <mail@wbh.org>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to find IPs on a wireless network?
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:16:47 +0100
Message-ID: <E0B6D33D-D2E6-4E0F-8463-ED8B1E1A5614@wbh.org>
In-Reply-To: <20140913180916.GA3242@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 13 Sep 2014, at 19:09, Chris Green wrote:
> How can one find IP addresses on a LAN when connected by WiFi?

Works for me :-
    nmap -sn 192.168.1.0/24

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--===============1990332935423643094==--


From cl@isbd.net Mon Sep 15 07:49:39 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to find IPs on a wireless network?
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 07:49:36 +0100
Message-ID: <20140915064935.GA8914@chris>
In-Reply-To: <569be861-1715-4870-a395-961c0d876d34@email.android.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 08:29:46PM +0100, Paul Lenton wrote:
> Does nmap -sL [lan.address.number.*] | grep lan do what you want?
> 
> It's how I search for anything on my home network - using 192.168.1.* it 
> searches all ips on my network. The pipe to grep just saves you searching 
> through a huge list of "None" 
> 
Well, sort of, but none of my systems have names that appear on the
LAN (crap modern routers don't seem to do names) so filtering using
grep is a little difficult.

Doesn't nmap have an option to report only IPs that respond?

-- 
Chris Green


--===============6050494732466517237==--


From cl@isbd.net Mon Sep 15 07:54:06 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to find IPs on a wireless network?
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 07:54:03 +0100
Message-ID: <20140915065403.GB8914@chris>
In-Reply-To: <E0B6D33D-D2E6-4E0F-8463-ED8B1E1A5614@wbh.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1154589093404432152=="

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On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 11:16:47AM +0100, William Hill wrote:
> On 13 Sep 2014, at 19:09, Chris Green wrote:
> > How can one find IP addresses on a LAN when connected by WiFi?
> 
> Works for me :-
>     nmap -sn 192.168.1.0/24

That looks pretty much what I want, it's a pity about all the 'noise'
it produces but I guess I can filter it out with a grep.

Thanks all.

-- 
Chris Green


--===============1154589093404432152==--


From mark@quarella.co.uk Mon Sep 15 09:31:35 2014
From: Mark Rogers <mark@quarella.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to find IPs on a wireless network?
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 09:31:13 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CADK3ZeFTOrtxuaS-YTp7TU2t7wNxOW8D-KuQwUaWuPkT1F3c+Q@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20140915065403.GB8914@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 15 September 2014 07:54, Chris Green <cl(a)isbd.net> wrote:
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 11:16:47AM +0100, William Hill wrote:
> >     nmap -sn 192.168.1.0/24
>
> That looks pretty much what I want, it's a pity about all the 'noise'
> it produces but I guess I can filter it out with a grep.

In that case
    nmap -oG- -sn 192.168.1.0/24
.. produces much friendlier output for grepping (which you probably
already knew, but just in case you didn't).

-- 

Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0844 251 1450
Registered in England (0456 0902) @ 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG


--===============1401463617991490782==--


From mark@quarella.co.uk Mon Sep 15 11:04:18 2014
From: Mark Rogers <mark@quarella.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] Raspberry Pi hwclock
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 11:03:56 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CADK3ZeEgUrdLAwVUisHV6TjVvGhJAiQ_zwFnNDA=VBMu08jmBA@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0096566417538818299=="

--===============0096566417538818299==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Anyone here added a real time clock to the Pi?

It's pretty trivial in principle but "The Internet" seems to be
littered with various ways to configure the Pi to use it, most of
which include adding it to /etc/rc.local rather than (for example)
/etc/init.d/hwclock.sh.

My objective is to have a solution that (a) requires minimal changes
to a stock Raspbian (ie the fewer files to add/modify the better), (b)
will detect whether an RTC has been added and roll back to using the
fake hwclock concept otherwise, (c) use NTP to maintain the clock
(including writing to hwclock) when an Internet connection is
available and (d) do all this as early into the boot process as
possible so minimal services start up with an inaccurate clock.

All of that sounds like a fairly desirable standard but most solutions
I've found seem to fall short of at least part, and frequently most,
of that.

-- 
Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0844 251 1450
Registered in England (0456 0902) @ 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG


--===============0096566417538818299==--


From steve@offend.me.uk Mon Sep 15 12:15:16 2014
From: Steve Engledow <steve@offend.me.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] mp3splt and regex
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 11:59:26 +0100
Message-ID: <20140915105926.GD10310@zarniwoop>
In-Reply-To: <20140903130726.6865ea7c@the-walker-household.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 03/09, Chris Walker wrote:
> My attempt looks like this :-
> mp3splt -G (?<title>):first_part+" "+second_part
> David_Rodigan_-_02_09_2014.mp3 3.00 60.00
> -o /split/David_Rodigan_-_02_09_2014

- From the docs, it looks like you actually want something like:

    mp3splt -G "regex=3D^(?<artist>.*)_-_.._.._(?<year>....)" David_Rodigan_-=
_02_09_2014.mp3 3.00 5.00

Cheers,
Steve
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From tony.anson@girolle.co.uk Mon Sep 15 12:19:31 2014
From: Anthony Anson <tony.anson@girolle.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Thunderbird oddness
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 12:19:19 +0100
Message-ID: <5416CB37.1010602@girolle.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <5411B909.8020709@gmx.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7317157909486595481=="

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On 11/09/14 16:00, Bev Nicolson wrote:
> On 11/09/14 14:35, Anthony Anson wrote:
>> On 11/09/14 06:11, Bev Nicolson wrote:
>>> Thunderbird seems to be selective about which emails it marks as replied
>>> to with the blue arrow now so I'm uncertain whether they've been sent or
>>> not. I haven't changed any settings so does anyone know why this might
>>> be? (24.2.0)
>>
>> AFAIK the blue marker shows the items you have replied to (and sent).
>>
> Hence my puzzle. As far as I'm concerned they've been replied to and
> sent but no marker is given (for some.)

Have you looked in the 'Sent' folder?

-- 
Tony
http://www.girolle.co.uk/


--===============7317157909486595481==--


From cl@isbd.net Tue Sep 16 13:05:38 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] Any idear how this router running Linux configures itself?
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:05:33 +0100
Message-ID: <20140916120532.GA8689@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I have a little Solwise 3G router on my boat.  I have just discovered
it runs Linux and I can telnet into it.  Even better it runs dnsmasq
so, if I can configure it appropriately then I can get it to provide
local DNS.

However I can't work out where it configures itself from at boot time.
If I edit /etc/hosts for example then, if I reboot, my changes are
lost. 

There's an /etc_ro directory but nothing really much in there gives a
clue.  There's even an /etc_ro/rcS file which is obviously executed
fairly early on in the boot sequence but it's not early enough to
indicate where the basic configuration lives.

The motd file says:-

------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to
          HAME Technology Co.,Ltd
                   =System Architecture Department=
------------------------------------------------------

... oh, it as busybox for most of the commands.

Does anyone have any idea how it starts up and configures itself?

-- 
Chris Green


--===============2822758608635515823==--


From cl@isbd.net Tue Sep 16 16:43:03 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] Is there such a thing as a 'WiFi switch' to add WiFi to a LAN
 - if so what's it called?
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 16:43:00 +0100
Message-ID: <20140916154259.GA12920@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I'm not even sure such a thing exists but it feels as if it ought to.

I want a 'WiFi switch' that I can plug into an existing LAN such that
it allows WiFi access on the *same* subnet.  Thus it won't do anything
clever like DHCP or DNS or anything as that will be done by existing
devices on the LAN.

All the 'range extenders' I can find are WiFi both in and out and also
tend to create their own subnet.  Anyway I need something that hangs
on a hard-wired ethernet connection.

Is there such a thing?

-- 
Chris Green


--===============7387873608456530758==--


From cl@isbd.net Tue Sep 16 17:22:42 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Is there such a thing as a 'WiFi switch' to add WiFi to a
 LAN - if so what's it called?
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 17:22:40 +0100
Message-ID: <20140916162239.GA13864@chris>
In-Reply-To: <20140916154259.GA12920@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7900681726545780243=="

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On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 04:43:00PM +0100, Chris Green wrote:
> I'm not even sure such a thing exists but it feels as if it ought to.
> 
> I want a 'WiFi switch' that I can plug into an existing LAN such that
> it allows WiFi access on the *same* subnet.  Thus it won't do anything
> clever like DHCP or DNS or anything as that will be done by existing
> devices on the LAN.
> 
> All the 'range extenders' I can find are WiFi both in and out and also
> tend to create their own subnet.  Anyway I need something that hangs
> on a hard-wired ethernet connection.
> 
> Is there such a thing?
> 
Much to my surprise it was simpler to do than I expected.  I have a 3G
router here and it does what I want if I just configure it with a
static IP and *not* as a DHCP server.  I've plugged one of its
ethernet LAN ports into the local 192.168.13.0 subnet and it does
exactly what I want, the other ethernet LAN ports are just more ports
on the 192.168.13.0 (as you'd expect) but so is the WiFi from it and
when you connect using the WiFi the DHCP server on the 192.168.13.0
provides what's needed.

There's not a functional SIM in the 3G router so it *can't* connect
that way!

-- 
Chris Green


--===============7900681726545780243==--


From cl@isbd.net Tue Sep 16 17:47:46 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] Simple way to find local subnet?
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 17:47:43 +0100
Message-ID: <20140916164743.GA14609@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Is there a simple way to get the value of the local subnet to which
one is connected?  I know I can derive it from what ifconfig outputs
but using grep to get '192.168.13.0' from output like:-

    eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr f0:de:f1:2b:f9:13 =20
              UP BROADCAST MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
              RX packets:1533 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
              TX packets:2135 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
              collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000=20
              RX bytes:820119 (820.1 KB)  TX bytes:231948 (231.9 KB)
              Interrupt:20 Memory:f2500000-f2520000=20

    lo        Link encap:Local Loopback =20
              inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
              inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
              UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:65536  Metric:1
              RX packets:1181 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
              TX packets:1181 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
              collisions:0 txqueuelen:0=20
              RX bytes:126765 (126.7 KB)  TX bytes:126765 (126.7 KB)

    wlan0     Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:24:d7:6e:3d:08 =20
              inet addr:192.168.13.104  Bcast:192.168.13.255 Mask:255.255.255=
.0
              inet6 addr: fe80::224:d7ff:fe6e:3d08/64 Scope:Link
              UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
              RX packets:8144 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
              TX packets:8180 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
              collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000=20
              RX bytes:3358385 (3.3 MB)  TX bytes:1152063 (1.1 MB)


.... seems a little more difficult than it should be.

Presumably arp-scan does it somehow when you use 'arp-scan -l'.

--=20
Chris Green


--===============6392992257037358550==--


From steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk Tue Sep 16 21:41:40 2014
From: steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Is there such a thing as a 'WiFi switch' to add WiFi to a
 LAN - if so what's it called?
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 21:41:35 +0100
Message-ID: <5418A07F.4010303@hst.me.uk>
In-Reply-To: <20140916154259.GA12920@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On 16/09/14 16:43, Chris Green wrote:
> I'm not even sure such a thing exists but it feels as if it ought to.
>
> I want a 'WiFi switch' that I can plug into an existing LAN such that
> it allows WiFi access on the *same* subnet.  Thus it won't do anything
> clever like DHCP or DNS or anything as that will be done by existing
> devices on the LAN.
>
> All the 'range extenders' I can find are WiFi both in and out and also
> tend to create their own subnet.  Anyway I need something that hangs
> on a hard-wired ethernet connection.
>
> Is there such a thing?
>

I'm not entirely sure, but  is this what you're after? (scroll down to 
to the diagram for a quick idea).

http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Wireless_Access_Point

I think (but I'm not sure) that dd-wrt will do what you want. dd-wrt 
works on a variety of different routers - you have to flash the rom to 
replace the stock rom with dd-wrt.

There are similar products to dd-wrt which may be able to do the same 
thing.  Do a bit of research before getting a router, as different 
routers support different versions of dd-wrt.

Hope that helps.

Steve


--===============2427807540795404472==--


From cl@isbd.net Wed Sep 17 07:57:31 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Is there such a thing as a 'WiFi switch' to add WiFi to a
 LAN - if so what's it called?
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 07:57:28 +0100
Message-ID: <20140917065728.GB29647@chris>
In-Reply-To: <5418A07F.4010303@hst.me.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 09:41:35PM +0100, steve-ALUG(a)hst.me.uk wrote:
> On 16/09/14 16:43, Chris Green wrote:
> >I'm not even sure such a thing exists but it feels as if it ought to.
> >
> >I want a 'WiFi switch' that I can plug into an existing LAN such that
> >it allows WiFi access on the *same* subnet.  Thus it won't do anything
> >clever like DHCP or DNS or anything as that will be done by existing
> >devices on the LAN.
> >
> >All the 'range extenders' I can find are WiFi both in and out and also
> >tend to create their own subnet.  Anyway I need something that hangs
> >on a hard-wired ethernet connection.
> >
> >Is there such a thing?
> >
> 
> I'm not entirely sure, but  is this what you're after? (scroll down
> to to the diagram for a quick idea).
> 
> http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Wireless_Access_Point
> 
> I think (but I'm not sure) that dd-wrt will do what you want. dd-wrt
> works on a variety of different routers - you have to flash the rom
> to replace the stock rom with dd-wrt.
> 
> There are similar products to dd-wrt which may be able to do the
> same thing.  Do a bit of research before getting a router, as
> different routers support different versions of dd-wrt.
> 
That's a good point, thanks.  I did know aboout dd-wrt but hadn't
really put two and two together re this question.  I *might* already
have an old router that can run dd-wrt, certainly worth a try, and
routers are so cheap now it's almost worth buying a compatible one to
play with.

-- 
Chris Green


--===============6709548951869591550==--


From mark@quarella.co.uk Wed Sep 17 10:15:50 2014
From: Mark Rogers <mark@quarella.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] Ubuntu startup scripts
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 10:15:28 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CADK3ZeHxCNMMFHjrxjvX1MhoqG2yZpca_Mmh_4UQcFfiCiZQFg@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0372410747292187483=="

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Where are the various places that processes can be started on desktop
login on Ubuntu?

Specifically: My laptop has an encrypted Truecrypt partition, and a
Dropbox share on it. On login Dropbox tries to start and can't access
its directory because at that point I haven't mounted the TC volume.

Dropbox is listed in the Startup Applications GUI, which as far as I
can tell just lists whatever is in ~/.config/autostart. However, if I
remove it from there (either from the GUI or by deleting
dropbox.desktop, and with Dropbox stopped when I do it), if I log out
and back in again it puts itself back and starts again. Where is that
coming from?

Furthermore: if I replace dropbox.desktop with an empty read only
file, it doesn't get replaced but Dropbox still starts. How?

Further furthemore: I have my own bash script which prompts me for the
TC volume password, mounts it, then starts dropbox. I have added that
to ~/.config/autostart (via the GUI), but my script doesn't seem to
start. What might I be doing wrong?

Over the years I have spent ages removing viruses on Windows and got
used to the idea that there are dozens of places that you can
configure applications to start automatically but I thought Linux
would be a bit cleaner than that! This has prompted me to learn more
about the startup process.

-- 
Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0844 251 1450
Registered in England (0456 0902) @ 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG


--===============0372410747292187483==--


From simon@nosher.net Thu Sep 18 18:19:38 2014
From: Simon Ransome <simon@nosher.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Is there such a thing as a 'WiFi switch' to add WiFi to a
 LAN - if so what's it called?
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 18:19:37 +0100
Message-ID: <541B1429.1060501@nosher.net>
In-Reply-To: <20140916162239.GA13864@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I know this is a bit late now but for anyone interested in other "out of 
the box" solutions to this problem, Netgear's WG602 and newer N150 both 
work by just extending the same IP range as the network they're attached 
to (or at least being trivially configurable to do so).

I found out about this the hard way after going from the WG602 to a 
Cisco of some description, after a MacBook started refusing to connect 
to the Netgear. The Cisco was a nice-enough router and had great range, 
but it also insisted on being its own subnet. This made getting 
broadcast stuff working across the two networks - like DNLA 
servers/players and a Squeezebox Duet - nigh-on impossible.

Simon


On 16/09/14 17:22, Chris Green wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 04:43:00PM +0100, Chris Green wrote:
>> I'm not even sure such a thing exists but it feels as if it ought to.
>>
>> I want a 'WiFi switch' that I can plug into an existing LAN such that
>> it allows WiFi access on the *same* subnet.  Thus it won't do anything
>> clever like DHCP or DNS or anything as that will be done by existing
>> devices on the LAN.
>>
>> All the 'range extenders' I can find are WiFi both in and out and also
>> tend to create their own subnet.  Anyway I need something that hangs
>> on a hard-wired ethernet connection.
>>
>> Is there such a thing?
>>
> Much to my surprise it was simpler to do than I expected.  I have a 3G
> router here and it does what I want if I just configure it with a
> static IP and *not* as a DHCP server.  I've plugged one of its
> ethernet LAN ports into the local 192.168.13.0 subnet and it does
> exactly what I want, the other ethernet LAN ports are just more ports
> on the 192.168.13.0 (as you'd expect) but so is the WiFi from it and
> when you connect using the WiFi the DHCP server on the 192.168.13.0
> provides what's needed.
>
> There's not a functional SIM in the 3G router so it *can't* connect
> that way!
>


-- 
------------------------------------------
www: nosher.net
rss: nosher.net/images.rss


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From cl@isbd.net Sat Sep 20 13:19:31 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 13:19:28 +0100
Message-ID: <20140920121928.GC16977@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--===============7377231642795001838==
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As I move around from home to various other places different systems
that I connect to from my laptop become 'local'.  Being a lazy person
I really don't want to type in long complicated ssh commands when I'm
connecting remotely.  Thus I have in the ~/.ssh/config file the
following:-

    Host cheddar
        HostName cheddar.halon.org.uk

    Host halon
        HostName cheddar.halon.org.uk

    Host chris
        ProxyCommand ssh cheddar nc -q0 zbmc.eu 22

    Host odin
        ProxyCommand ssh cheddar nc -q0 localhost 51234

This means I can simply type 'ssh chris' or 'ssh odin' and ssh with
the above config file does all the hard work for me.

However it means that when I'm at home for example (where 'chris' is
my desktop on the LAN) if I type 'ssh chris' I get connected to my
desktop machine via the internet which is rather ridiculous.

Can anyone come up with an easy way to change how 'ssh chris' acts
according to whether I'm on the LAN where 'chris' is or not. Similarly
I want the same to happen when I'm on the LAN where 'odin' is (which
is not the same LAN).

-- 
Chris Green


--===============7377231642795001838==--


From mark@quarella.co.uk Sat Sep 20 18:56:49 2014
From: Mark Rogers <mark@quarella.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 18:56:46 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CADK3ZeHx3THh3W8bea13gSzDhja2uRX0JKU+1hB9M-r6uZaXNA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20140920121928.GC16977@chris>
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On 20 Sep 2014 13:20, "Chris Green" <cl(a)isbd.net> wrote:
> Can anyone come up with an easy way to change how 'ssh chris' acts
> according to whether I'm on the LAN where 'chris' is or not. Similarly
> I want the same to happen when I'm on the LAN where 'odin' is (which
> is not the same LAN).

What provides your DNS when you're at the different locations?

Simply make sure that whatever it is dishes out the local addresses. When
you're away from that location the world visible DNS will give the external
IP, when you're at the location the local DNS will override the world
visible alternatives.

Mark



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From ALUGlist@digimatic.co.uk Sat Sep 20 20:16:28 2014
From: Wayne Stallwood <ALUGlist@digimatic.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Any idear how this router running Linux configures	itself?
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 20:00:51 +0100
Message-ID: <541DCEE3.8010209@digimatic.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <20140916120532.GA8689@chris>
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On 16/09/14 13:05, Chris Green wrote:
> I have a little Solwise 3G router on my boat.  I have just discovered
> it runs Linux and I can telnet into it.  Even better it runs dnsmasq
> so, if I can configure it appropriately then I can get it to provide
> local DNS.
>
> However I can't work out where it configures itself from at boot time.
> If I edit /etc/hosts for example then, if I reboot, my changes are
> lost.
>

> ... oh, it as busybox for most of the commands.
>
> Does anyone have any idea how it starts up and configures itself?
>
You may get a clue if you have a look at the output of mount.

A lot of embedded stuff has trick where a "master" root volume is 
mounted read only and then a tmpfs style rw volume is mounted over the 
top. Using tools like unionFS

So if you make changes on the fly they only live in ram, you need to 
remount the "master" root image RW and write the changes into that, 
which is probably what the web configuration tools do.


--===============4568479350829533580==--


From cl@isbd.net Sun Sep 21 08:42:04 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Any idear how this router running Linux configures	itself?
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 08:42:00 +0100
Message-ID: <20140921074159.GC27723@chris>
In-Reply-To: <541DCEE3.8010209@digimatic.co.uk>
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On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 08:00:51PM +0100, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
> On 16/09/14 13:05, Chris Green wrote:
> >I have a little Solwise 3G router on my boat.  I have just discovered
> >it runs Linux and I can telnet into it.  Even better it runs dnsmasq
> >so, if I can configure it appropriately then I can get it to provide
> >local DNS.
> >
> >However I can't work out where it configures itself from at boot time.
> >If I edit /etc/hosts for example then, if I reboot, my changes are
> >lost.
> >
> 
> >... oh, it as busybox for most of the commands.
> >
> >Does anyone have any idea how it starts up and configures itself?
> >
> You may get a clue if you have a look at the output of mount.
> 
> A lot of embedded stuff has trick where a "master" root volume is
> mounted read only and then a tmpfs style rw volume is mounted over
> the top. Using tools like unionFS
> 
> So if you make changes on the fly they only live in ram, you need to
> remount the "master" root image RW and write the changes into that,
> which is probably what the web configuration tools do.
> 
Thanks for the ideas, I'll take a look at the mounts etc.

It'll have to wait until I go back to the boat though because it's
turned off when I'm not there as its only function really is to
provide WiFi on the boat.

-- 
Chris Green


--===============4851189867542413557==--


From steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk Sun Sep 21 23:25:28 2014
From: steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 23:25:23 +0100
Message-ID: <541F5053.2000907@hst.me.uk>
In-Reply-To: <20140920121928.GC16977@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 20/09/14 13:19, Chris Green wrote:
> As I move around from home to various other places different systems
> that I connect to from my laptop become 'local'.  Being a lazy person
> I really don't want to type in long complicated ssh commands when I'm
> connecting remotely.  Thus I have in the ~/.ssh/config file the
> following:-
>
>      Host cheddar
>          HostName cheddar.halon.org.uk
>
>      Host halon
>          HostName cheddar.halon.org.uk
>
>      Host chris
>          ProxyCommand ssh cheddar nc -q0 zbmc.eu 22
>
>      Host odin
>          ProxyCommand ssh cheddar nc -q0 localhost 51234
>
> This means I can simply type 'ssh chris' or 'ssh odin' and ssh with
> the above config file does all the hard work for me.
>
> However it means that when I'm at home for example (where 'chris' is
> my desktop on the LAN) if I type 'ssh chris' I get connected to my
> desktop machine via the internet which is rather ridiculous.
>
> Can anyone come up with an easy way to change how 'ssh chris' acts
> according to whether I'm on the LAN where 'chris' is or not. Similarly
> I want the same to happen when I'm on the LAN where 'odin' is (which
> is not the same LAN).
>

To me the answer to so many recent questions seems to be "Use dnsmasq"!

I have a laptop and a server.  The server runs dnsmasq which does dns 
for my network.  The server has a hosts file which is fairly normal but 
also has an entry like

192.168.1.100 MyServer.ItsPublicInternetAddress.Example

If my laptop is on my network and getting addresses from dnsmasq, then

ssh MyServer.ItsPublicInternetAddress.Example

is equivalent to

ssh 192.168.1.100

If my laptop is not on the network, and it's getting names from an ISP's 
dns server then

ssh MyServer.ItsPublicInternetAddress.Example

resolves to the true internet name of the server, and it will be 
accessed via the internet.

HTH
Steve



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From cl@isbd.net Mon Sep 22 08:52:33 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 08:52:26 +0100
Message-ID: <20140922075226.GA21459@chris>
In-Reply-To: <541F5053.2000907@hst.me.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 11:25:23PM +0100, steve-ALUG(a)hst.me.uk wrote:
> On 20/09/14 13:19, Chris Green wrote:
> >As I move around from home to various other places different systems
> >that I connect to from my laptop become 'local'.  Being a lazy person
> >I really don't want to type in long complicated ssh commands when I'm
> >connecting remotely.  Thus I have in the ~/.ssh/config file the
> >following:-
> >
> >     Host cheddar
> >         HostName cheddar.halon.org.uk
> >
> >     Host halon
> >         HostName cheddar.halon.org.uk
> >
> >     Host chris
> >         ProxyCommand ssh cheddar nc -q0 zbmc.eu 22
> >
> >     Host odin
> >         ProxyCommand ssh cheddar nc -q0 localhost 51234
> >
> >This means I can simply type 'ssh chris' or 'ssh odin' and ssh with
> >the above config file does all the hard work for me.
> >
> >However it means that when I'm at home for example (where 'chris' is
> >my desktop on the LAN) if I type 'ssh chris' I get connected to my
> >desktop machine via the internet which is rather ridiculous.
> >
> >Can anyone come up with an easy way to change how 'ssh chris' acts
> >according to whether I'm on the LAN where 'chris' is or not. Similarly
> >I want the same to happen when I'm on the LAN where 'odin' is (which
> >is not the same LAN).
> >
> 
> To me the answer to so many recent questions seems to be "Use dnsmasq"!
> 
> I have a laptop and a server.  The server runs dnsmasq which does
> dns for my network.  The server has a hosts file which is fairly
> normal but also has an entry like
> 
> 192.168.1.100 MyServer.ItsPublicInternetAddress.Example
> 
> If my laptop is on my network and getting addresses from dnsmasq, then
> 
> ssh MyServer.ItsPublicInternetAddress.Example
> 
> is equivalent to
> 
> ssh 192.168.1.100
> 
> If my laptop is not on the network, and it's getting names from an
> ISP's dns server then
> 
> ssh MyServer.ItsPublicInternetAddress.Example
> 
I certainly don't want to type out 'ssh chris.complete.server.name'
every time I ssh, the whole point of my ~/.ssh/config file above is
that I can just type 'ssh chris' to connect.


If I wasn't using ProxyCommand I think your solution would work, I
could have:-

    Host chris
        Hostname chris.zbmc.eu

... and 'ssh chris' would work correctly from the LAN or outside.  

However what I already have in my ~/.ssh/config file is:-

    Host cheddar
        HostName cheddar.halon.org.uk
    Host chris
        ProxyCommand ssh cheddar nc -q0 zbmc.eu 22

So, unfortunately, what you are suggesting won't work in this
particular case.  What I need is a way to get the ProxyCommand when
I'm out and about but switch it off completely when I'm on the LAN.

-- 
Chris Green


--===============5168934825776523720==--


From alug_cdw@the-walker-household.co.uk Mon Sep 22 10:11:57 2014
From: Chris Walker <alug_cdw@the-walker-household.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] mp3splt and regex
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:11:54 +0100
Message-ID: <20140922101154.55f3ffbb@the-walker-household.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <20140915105926.GD10310@zarniwoop>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 11:59:26 +0100
Steve Engledow <steve(a)offend.me.uk> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> On 03/09, Chris Walker wrote:
> > My attempt looks like this :-
> > mp3splt -G (?<title>):first_part+" "+second_part
> > David_Rodigan_-_02_09_2014.mp3 3.00 60.00
> > -o /split/David_Rodigan_-_02_09_2014
> 
> - From the docs, it looks like you actually want something like:
> 
>     mp3splt -G "regex=^(?<artist>.*)_-_.._.._(?<year>....)"
> David_Rodigan_-_02_09_2014.mp3 3.00 5.00

Many thanks for that.

Apologies for the tardy reply but I've been on holiday.

By the way, did you get an email I sent you privately some weeks ago?
Again, apologies but if you didn't receive it, this is the only way to
ask!

-- 
 __ __| |_ __ __  .----------------------------------------------.
/ _/ _` \ V  V /  |  mailto:alug_cdw(a)the-walker-household.co.uk  |
\__\__,_|\_/\_/   |______________________________________________|


--===============4686314377174033513==--


From mbm@rlogin.net Mon Sep 22 10:38:52 2014
From: mick <mbm@rlogin.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:38:42 +0100
Message-ID: <164079118975.261833.11220705682233930681.generated@the.earth.li>
In-Reply-To: <20140922075226.GA21459@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 08:52:26 +0100
Chris Green <cl(a)isbd.net> allegedly wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 11:25:23PM +0100, steve-ALUG(a)hst.me.uk wrote:
> > On 20/09/14 13:19, Chris Green wrote:
> > >As I move around from home to various other places different
> > >systems that I connect to from my laptop become 'local'.  Being a
> > >lazy person I really don't want to type in long complicated ssh
> > >commands when I'm connecting remotely.  Thus I have in the
> > >~/.ssh/config file the following:-

Sigh.

Chris

Why do you keep asking variants of the same question? Lots of different
people have taken the time and effort to answer those questions for
you at various times in the past, yet you ignore the answers and come
back with yet another variant of the "how do I do this when connecting
to/from my boat"?

Think back to what Keith asked you back in 2012:

"Here's some thoughts, and a question for you.

The thoughts: You ask for some advice, receive a number of responses,
and you decide to do something different (that you can't get to work).
Then you find a really complex solution, which is less secure than some
of the suggestions you received. I feel that those who responded have
wasted their time and expertise trying to help you.

The question: why would anyone on this list try to help you next time?"

I agree with Keith. Sorry, but I now consign most of your emails
straight to /dev/null.

Mick

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 Mick Morgan
 gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B  72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312
 http://baldric.net

---------------------------------------------------------------------


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From laurie@brownowl.com Mon Sep 22 11:19:54 2014
From: Laurie Brown <laurie@brownowl.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:19:53 +0100
Message-ID: <541FF7C9.2060207@brownowl.com>
In-Reply-To: <20140922075226.GA21459@chris>
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On 22/09/14 08:52, Chris Green wrote:

[SNIP]

> On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 11:25:23PM +0100, steve-ALUG(a)hst.me.uk wrote:

[SNIP]

> If I wasn't using ProxyCommand I think your solution would work, I

[SNIP]

I don't really see why you think that ProxyCommand affects this, but IMO
the solution for your original question is dnsmasq.

I use it here on my firewall for the DMZ. My DMZ contains
internet-facing machines, which all have 10.* addresses in a local
subnet, and traffic is forwarded to them via the firewall as
appropriate. If I want to access myserver.mydomain.com from my desktop,
"normal" DNS would give me the external IP address, which I don't want.
dnsmasq intercepts that DNS lookup and provides the LAN address instead.

That seems to be what you want to do.

Cheers, Laurie.
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
                               Laurie Brown
                           laurie(a)brownowl.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------


--===============1772661660166907796==--


From cl@isbd.net Mon Sep 22 13:50:02 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:49:58 +0100
Message-ID: <20140922124958.GB27610@chris>
In-Reply-To:
 <CADK3ZeHx3THh3W8bea13gSzDhja2uRX0JKU+1hB9M-r6uZaXNA@mail.gmail.com>
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On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 06:56:46PM +0100, Mark Rogers wrote:
>    On 20 Sep 2014 13:20, "Chris Green" <[1]cl(a)isbd.net> wrote:
>    > Can anyone come up with an easy way to change how 'ssh chris' acts
>    > according to whether I'm on the LAN where 'chris' is or not. Similarly
>    > I want the same to happen when I'm on the LAN where 'odin' is (which
>    > is not the same LAN).
> 
>    What provides your DNS when you're at the different locations?
> 
dnsmasq on the LAN, whoever I'm connected to's DNS when elsewhere.


>    Simply make sure that whatever it is dishes out the local addresses. When
>    you're away from that location the world visible DNS will give the
>    external IP, when you're at the location the local DNS will override the
>    world visible alternatives.
> 
As I have pointed out in a previous reply this doesn't work because of
the ProxyAddress stuff I have in my ~/.ssh/config file.  I need some
way to switch the ProxyCommand off when I'm on the LAN.


-- 
Chris Green


--===============9141032993193247075==--


From cl@isbd.net Mon Sep 22 13:52:26 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:52:18 +0100
Message-ID: <20140922125218.GC27610@chris>
In-Reply-To: <E1XW054-0002UU-QJ@mail3.eqx.gridhost.co.uk>
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On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:38:42AM +0100, mick wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 08:52:26 +0100
> Chris Green <cl(a)isbd.net> allegedly wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 11:25:23PM +0100, steve-ALUG(a)hst.me.uk wrote:
> > > On 20/09/14 13:19, Chris Green wrote:
> > > >As I move around from home to various other places different
> > > >systems that I connect to from my laptop become 'local'.  Being a
> > > >lazy person I really don't want to type in long complicated ssh
> > > >commands when I'm connecting remotely.  Thus I have in the
> > > >~/.ssh/config file the following:-
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> Chris
> 
> Why do you keep asking variants of the same question? Lots of different
> people have taken the time and effort to answer those questions for
> you at various times in the past, yet you ignore the answers and come
> back with yet another variant of the "how do I do this when connecting
> to/from my boat"?
> 
Please read the question! :-)  It's very much *not* the same question
as I've asked before.  The specific issue is because of my use of
ProxyCommand in my ~/.ssh/config file.  It's *not* "how do I get local
names to work".


-- 
Chris Green


--===============1649986116871417022==--


From cl@isbd.net Mon Sep 22 14:05:10 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 14:05:06 +0100
Message-ID: <20140922130506.GF27610@chris>
In-Reply-To: <54201CD8.2010905@brownowl.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 01:58:00PM +0100, Laurie Brown wrote:
> On 22/09/14 13:49, Chris Green wrote:
> 
> [SNIP]
> 
> > As I have pointed out in a previous reply this doesn't work because of
> > the ProxyAddress stuff I have in my ~/.ssh/config file.  I need some
> > way to switch the ProxyCommand off when I'm on the LAN.
> 
> Why not have two such files, each specific to a particular location, and
> write a bash script with a parameter to copy over your ~/.ssh/config
> file whichever version you need? I really don't understand the problem here.
> 
Fine, it's just the sort of thing I was thinking of doing.  My
question was really how to automate the switch over by (somehow)
detecting whether I'm connected to the LAN or not.

-- 
Chris Green


--===============5639074146069430030==--


From cl@isbd.net Mon Sep 22 14:13:35 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:59:34 +0100
Message-ID: <20140922125934.GD27610@chris>
In-Reply-To: <541FF7C9.2060207@brownowl.com>
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On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:19:53AM +0100, Laurie Brown wrote:
> On 22/09/14 08:52, Chris Green wrote:
> 
> [SNIP]
> 
> > On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 11:25:23PM +0100, steve-ALUG(a)hst.me.uk wrote:
> 
> [SNIP]
> 
> > If I wasn't using ProxyCommand I think your solution would work, I
> 
> [SNIP]
> 
> I don't really see why you think that ProxyCommand affects this, but IMO
> the solution for your original question is dnsmasq.
> 
Because if I do 'ssh chris' when I'm on the LAN it finds the
ProxyCommand as follows:-

    Host chris
        ProxyCommand ssh cheddar nc -q0 zbmc.eu 22

... and will connect out from the LAN to cheddar on the internet and
then back again to my desktop machuine.  I *do* have dnsmasq at home
on the LAN.


The whole point of the ~/.ssh/config file I have is that when I'm not
at home I can just enter 'ssh chris' and I will be automatically
connected via cheddar.halon.org.uk to my home machine 'chris.zbmc.eu'.

However this *prevents* 'ssh chris' doing the obvious default thing it
would normally do when I'm at home connected to the LAN.  Instead of
just connecting me to 'chris' (which it can find because I have
dnsmasq running) it instead connects out to cheddar.halon.org.uk and
then back to zbmc.eu, as directed by the ProxyCommand.

-- 
Chris Green


--===============3479350562993223957==--


From steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk Mon Sep 22 14:27:25 2014
From: steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 14:27:21 +0100
Message-ID: <542023B9.5020506@hst.me.uk>
In-Reply-To: <20140922130506.GF27610@chris>
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On 22/09/14 14:05, Chris Green wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 01:58:00PM +0100, Laurie Brown wrote:
>> On 22/09/14 13:49, Chris Green wrote:
>>
>> [SNIP]
>>
>>> As I have pointed out in a previous reply this doesn't work because of
>>> the ProxyAddress stuff I have in my ~/.ssh/config file.  I need some
>>> way to switch the ProxyCommand off when I'm on the LAN.
>> Why not have two such files, each specific to a particular location, and
>> write a bash script with a parameter to copy over your ~/.ssh/config
>> file whichever version you need? I really don't understand the problem her=
e.
>>
> Fine, it's just the sort of thing I was thinking of doing.  My
> question was really how to automate the switch over by (somehow)
> detecting whether I'm connected to the LAN or not.
>
1) Scan you network & look at the results.
2) Lookup your IP address via ifconfig or similar, or whatismyip.com or=20
whatever one of the miriad of servers is called that do that for you,=20
and see which address range it falls into and deduce you location from that.
3) Ping your server by it's local network IP address - if it fails,=20
you're not at home, and deduce your location from that.
4) use dnsmasq, interrogate your dns name and deduce your location from that
5) traceroute to your server - if it gets there in one hop, you're on=20
your lan.  if not, deduce your location from that.
6) have a bash script called athome which sets environmental variables,=20
or creates a file, both of wihc can be easily checked for in other=20
scripts like you're proposing.  Also have a script called onboat which=20
sets different values.  They you only have to run this once, then your=20
other scripts will work properly.

One of those ideas might work perhaps.
Steve



--===============3557828190409587639==--


From adam@thebowery.co.uk Mon Sep 22 16:38:01 2014
From: Adam Bower <adam@thebowery.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 16:37:57 +0100
Message-ID: <20140922153757.GA29525@electron>
In-Reply-To: <20140922125934.GD27610@chris>
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Ditch the proxycommand and just set the ssh config to connect to zbmc.eu 
directly, and set the hostname for zbmc.eu internally with dnsmasq on 
your internal lan via /etc/hosts as already suggested. I don't see why 
you feel this won't work.

Failing that put a script into ifup.d to detect which network you're on 
and write a line to /etc/hosts or comment it as appropriate (if you really
must).

Adam


--===============2051905762819484424==--


From cl@isbd.net Mon Sep 22 18:27:11 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 18:27:07 +0100
Message-ID: <20140922172707.GA746@chris>
In-Reply-To: <20140922153757.GA29525@electron>
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On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 04:37:57PM +0100, Adam Bower wrote:
> Ditch the proxycommand and just set the ssh config to connect to zbmc.eu 
> directly, and set the hostname for zbmc.eu internally with dnsmasq on 
> your internal lan via /etc/hosts as already suggested. I don't see why 
> you feel this won't work.
> 
It will of course, but then I'm left with a long complex procedure to
connect to my home machine when I'm out and about.

This is were we came in!  :-)

Obviously it's easy enough to set things up so when I'm at home (on
the LAN) I can just type 'ssh chris' to connect to my desktop.

However when I'm away from home I quickly get fed up with typing 'ssh
cheddar.halon.org.uk' followed by 'ssh zbmc.eu' so I set up the
ProxyCommand to make it so I can type just 'ssh chris'.

All I was looking for was any easy way to switch from one mode to the
other, preferably one that would work automatically.  

I can see all sorts of rather messy ways of doing it (others have
suggested some), but I was hoping for a neat/elegant way of doing it. 

The best I can come up with at the moment is a script that detects
whether it's on the LAN (using 'ping' does this fairly easily) and
then edits the ~/.ssh/config file.  However scripts that perform
actions by editing configuration files on the fly make me a bit
uncomfortable.

A neater way might be to use the 'match' keyword in the ssh config
file, I was hoping that maybe someone had already done something like
this.

-- 
Chris Green


--===============2033024421197178715==--


From adam@thebowery.co.uk Mon Sep 22 20:25:13 2014
From: Adam Bower <adam@thebowery.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 20:25:10 +0100
Message-ID: <20140922192510.GB29525@electron>
In-Reply-To: <20140922172707.GA746@chris>
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On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 06:27:07PM +0100, Chris Green wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 04:37:57PM +0100, Adam Bower wrote:
> > Ditch the proxycommand and just set the ssh config to connect to zbmc.eu 
> > directly, and set the hostname for zbmc.eu internally with dnsmasq on 
> > your internal lan via /etc/hosts as already suggested. I don't see why 
> > you feel this won't work.
> > 
> It will of course, but then I'm left with a long complex procedure to
> connect to my home machine when I'm out and about.

No! Jesus, this is not hard to understand, please try. 

Create in your ssh config

Host chris
Hostname zbmc.eu 

and then on dnsmasq on the lan where this host is put into /etc/hosts the 
name zbmc.eu and the IP address of the machine on the local lan. Then the 
DNS lookup for this machine will resolve to the local IP address.

Then you can type ssh chris and it will do the right thing.

Adam


--===============5735919170800322875==--


From cl@isbd.net Mon Sep 22 21:24:18 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 21:24:16 +0100
Message-ID: <20140922202415.GA4684@chris>
In-Reply-To: <20140922192510.GB29525@electron>
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On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 08:25:10PM +0100, Adam Bower wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 06:27:07PM +0100, Chris Green wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 04:37:57PM +0100, Adam Bower wrote:
> > > Ditch the proxycommand and just set the ssh config to connect to zbmc.e=
u=20
> > > directly, and set the hostname for zbmc.eu internally with dnsmasq on=20
> > > your internal lan via /etc/hosts as already suggested. I don't see why =

> > > you feel this won't work.
> > >=20
> > It will of course, but then I'm left with a long complex procedure to
> > connect to my home machine when I'm out and about.
>=20
> No! Jesus, this is not hard to understand, please try.=20
>=20
> Create in your ssh config
>=20
> Host chris
> Hostname zbmc.eu=20
>=20
> and then on dnsmasq on the lan where this host is put into /etc/hosts the=20
> name zbmc.eu and the IP address of the machine on the local lan. Then the=20
> DNS lookup for this machine will resolve to the local IP address.
>=20
> Then you can type ssh chris and it will do the right thing.
>=20
Yes, it will do the right thing when I'm on the LAN.  It will *not*
do the right thing (connect via the intermediate machine) when I am
connecting from elsewhere.


Maybe I'm not explaining well but when I'm connecting from elsewhere
my connection isn't direct to zbmc.eu.  For security I only allow
connections from two specific IP addresses, one of which is
cheddar.halon.org.uk.

So the procedure (in longhand) to connect from outside is:-

    ssh cheddar.halon.org.uk
    chris(a)cheddar.halon.org.uk's password:
    halon$ ssh zbmc.eu
    chris(a)zbmc.eu's password:=20
    Last login: Mon Sep 22 19:34:18 2014 from x201.zbmc.eu
    chris(a)chris$=20

Thus I have added the following lines in my ssh config file:-

    Host halon
        HostName cheddar.halon.org.uk

    Host chris
        ProxyCommand ssh cheddar nc -q0 zbmc.eu 22

These mean that I can enter 'ssh chris' from outside and it does all
the work for me.  However it also means that 'ssh chris' when I'm on
the LAN also goes via cheddar.halon.org.uk because of the 'Host chris'
line in the config file.


--=20
Chris Green


--===============5614128702113039698==--


From adam@thebowery.co.uk Mon Sep 22 21:43:52 2014
From: Adam Bower <adam@thebowery.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 21:43:49 +0100
Message-ID: <20140922204349.GC29525@electron>
In-Reply-To: <20140922202415.GA4684@chris>
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On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 09:24:16PM +0100, Chris Green wrote:
> 
> Maybe I'm not explaining well but when I'm connecting from elsewhere
> my connection isn't direct to zbmc.eu.  For security I only allow
> connections from two specific IP addresses, one of which is
> cheddar.halon.org.uk.

It won't really make it any more secure but if you're choosing to do it
the hard way why not just use a bash alias instead or via the
ifup.d method I suggested earlier?

Adam


--===============6438652564392445123==--


From steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk Mon Sep 22 21:46:59 2014
From: steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 21:46:56 +0100
Message-ID: <54208AC0.9010505@hst.me.uk>
In-Reply-To: <20140922202415.GA4684@chris>
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On 22/09/14 21:24, Chris Green wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 08:25:10PM +0100, Adam Bower wrote:
>> No! Jesus, this is not hard to understand, please try.
>>
>> Create in your ssh config
>>
>> Host chris
>> Hostname zbmc.eu
>>
>> and then on dnsmasq on the lan where this host is put into /etc/hosts the
>> name zbmc.eu and the IP address of the machine on the local lan. Then the
>> DNS lookup for this machine will resolve to the local IP address.
>>
>> Then you can type ssh chris and it will do the right thing.
>>
> Yes, it will do the right thing when I'm on the LAN.  It will *not*
> do the right thing (connect via the intermediate machine) when I am
> connecting from elsewhere.
>
>
> Maybe I'm not explaining well but when I'm connecting from elsewhere
> my connection isn't direct to zbmc.eu.  For security I only allow
> connections from two specific IP addresses, one of which is
> cheddar.halon.org.uk.
>
> So the procedure (in longhand) to connect from outside is:-
>
>      ssh cheddar.halon.org.uk
>      chris(a)cheddar.halon.org.uk's password:
>      halon$ ssh zbmc.eu
>      chris(a)zbmc.eu's password:
>      Last login: Mon Sep 22 19:34:18 2014 from x201.zbmc.eu
>      chris(a)chris$
>
> Thus I have added the following lines in my ssh config file:-
>
>      Host halon
>          HostName cheddar.halon.org.uk
>
>      Host chris
>          ProxyCommand ssh cheddar nc -q0 zbmc.eu 22
>
> These mean that I can enter 'ssh chris' from outside and it does all
> the work for me.  However it also means that 'ssh chris' when I'm on
> the LAN also goes via cheddar.halon.org.uk because of the 'Host chris'
> line in the config file.
>
>
Another alternative, inside the LAN,  just use ssh chris

for outside the lan, create a bash script and call it sshchris2.sh or 
something short and snappy.
put all your commands in that.
Then if you at home just do ssh chris, away from home just sshchris2.
Simple
Sorted?

Steve


--===============1112239413331087770==--


From cl@isbd.net Mon Sep 22 22:03:53 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 22:03:50 +0100
Message-ID: <20140922210350.GA5648@chris>
In-Reply-To: <54208AC0.9010505@hst.me.uk>
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On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 09:46:56PM +0100, steve-ALUG(a)hst.me.uk wrote:
> >
> >These mean that I can enter 'ssh chris' from outside and it does all
> >the work for me.  However it also means that 'ssh chris' when I'm on
> >the LAN also goes via cheddar.halon.org.uk because of the 'Host chris'
> >line in the config file.
> >
> >
> Another alternative, inside the LAN,  just use ssh chris
> 
> for outside the lan, create a bash script and call it sshchris2.sh
> or something short and snappy.
> put all your commands in that.
> Then if you at home just do ssh chris, away from home just sshchris2.
> Simple
> Sorted?
> 
Yes, I considered this.  It would be pretty easy to invent two names
for my machine 'chris' and use one from outside and the other on the
LAN.

I am just trying for perfection such that I can 'ssh chris' from
anywhere!  :-)

I think I have done it now with the following in my ~/.ssh/config file:-

    Host halon
        HostName cheddar.halon.org.uk

    Match host chris exec "hostNotLocal chris"
        ProxyCommand ssh cheddar nc -q0 zbmc.eu 22

... plus the script hostNotLocal which returns true if a host can't be
found on the local LAN.  Thus what happens when I enter 'ssh chris' is
that the Match line looks to see if it can see 'chris' (that
hostNotLocal just uses a ping), if it *can* see 'chris' then the
ProxyCommand *doesn't* happen and the 'ssh chris' simply connects to
the local 'chris'.  On the other hand if 'chris' isn't there then the
ProxyCommand does its work and my two stage login is done.

Yes, I know it's quite complicated in a way but it does make my life a
little simpler.  :-)

-- 
Chris Green


--===============3728923357741781439==--


From iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk Tue Sep 23 12:29:14 2014
From: Brett Parker <iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:29:13 +0100
Message-ID: <20140923112913.GA18190@miranda>
In-Reply-To: <20140922210350.GA5648@chris>
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OK - so lots and lots of going round in circles happened... and it was
all tedious...

On 22 Sep 22:03, Chris Green wrote:
> I think I have done it now with the following in my ~/.ssh/config file:-
> 
>     Host halon
>         HostName cheddar.halon.org.uk
> 
>     Match host chris exec "hostNotLocal chris"
>         ProxyCommand ssh cheddar nc -q0 zbmc.eu 22
> 
> ... plus the script hostNotLocal which returns true if a host can't be
> found on the local LAN.  Thus what happens when I enter 'ssh chris' is
> that the Match line looks to see if it can see 'chris' (that
> hostNotLocal just uses a ping), if it *can* see 'chris' then the
> ProxyCommand *doesn't* happen and the 'ssh chris' simply connects to
> the local 'chris'.  On the other hand if 'chris' isn't there then the
> ProxyCommand does its work and my two stage login is done.
> 
> Yes, I know it's quite complicated in a way but it does make my life a
> little simpler.  :-)

But, erm, you could have just done the easy method, and made the
ProxyCommand a script, the script then does one of:

  exec ssh cheddar nc -q0 zbmc.eu 22

Or

  exec nc -q0 the.internal.ip.address 22

You could even make that script sensible and be able to cope with
different networks and working out what network you're connected to.

Also has the advantage that you don't use Match in the ssh config,
because, erm, that appears to be a recent addition (it has been in
sshd_config for ages, it's not in wheezy's ssh_config), which means that
it's more portable to other machines.

(I used exactly this style system for *ages* at a previous place of
employ, so I know that it works).
-- 
Brett Parker


--===============7416293513292896518==--


From cl@isbd.net Tue Sep 23 14:05:46 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] How to change ssh destination depending on connected LAN?
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:05:42 +0100
Message-ID: <20140923130541.GB24191@chris>
In-Reply-To: <20140923112913.GA18190@miranda>
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On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:29:13PM +0100, Brett Parker wrote:
> OK - so lots and lots of going round in circles happened... and it was
> all tedious...
> 
> On 22 Sep 22:03, Chris Green wrote:
> > I think I have done it now with the following in my ~/.ssh/config file:-
> > 
> >     Host halon
> >         HostName cheddar.halon.org.uk
> > 
> >     Match host chris exec "hostNotLocal chris"
> >         ProxyCommand ssh cheddar nc -q0 zbmc.eu 22
> > 
> > ... plus the script hostNotLocal which returns true if a host can't be
> > found on the local LAN.  Thus what happens when I enter 'ssh chris' is
> > that the Match line looks to see if it can see 'chris' (that
> > hostNotLocal just uses a ping), if it *can* see 'chris' then the
> > ProxyCommand *doesn't* happen and the 'ssh chris' simply connects to
> > the local 'chris'.  On the other hand if 'chris' isn't there then the
> > ProxyCommand does its work and my two stage login is done.
> > 
> > Yes, I know it's quite complicated in a way but it does make my life a
> > little simpler.  :-)
> 
> But, erm, you could have just done the easy method, and made the
> ProxyCommand a script, the script then does one of:
> 
>   exec ssh cheddar nc -q0 zbmc.eu 22
> 
> Or
> 
>   exec nc -q0 the.internal.ip.address 22
> 
> You could even make that script sensible and be able to cope with
> different networks and working out what network you're connected to.
> 
> Also has the advantage that you don't use Match in the ssh config,
> because, erm, that appears to be a recent addition (it has been in
> sshd_config for ages, it's not in wheezy's ssh_config), which means that
> it's more portable to other machines.
> 
> (I used exactly this style system for *ages* at a previous place of
> employ, so I know that it works).

Yes, I certainly could have done that if someone had come up with the
idea when I first asked!  :-)   That was *exactly* the sort of thing I
was hoping someone would know about.  It just hadn't occurred to me to
do it that way and I agree it is probably somewhat neater than the way
I have used.

-- 
Chris Green


--===============6550291795965371664==--


From adam@thebowery.co.uk Tue Sep 23 15:59:57 2014
From: Adam Bower <adam@thebowery.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] Linux Job - Devops/Sytems Engineer - Cambourne/Cambridge. 
 =?utf-8?q?=C2=A335k-=C2=A345k?=
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:59:54 +0100
Message-ID: <20140923145954.GF29525@electron>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4981391190079499606=="

--===============4981391190079499606==
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Hi all,

I currently work for http://www.swiftserve.com and we're recruiting for at le=
ast
one and possibly 2 Linux systems/devops engineer positions. I've attached the
job description below, sorry about the formatting.

Currently we're based in Cambourne but we're moving to Milton in January. This
is a permanent position and we're wanting people to start as soon as possible.
Salary is in a range from =C2=A335k-=C2=A345k, possibly a bit more for except=
ional
candidates. If you want to send an application or have questions then please
send a CV/email to my work email address: abower(a)swiftserve.com

Description:

We are looking for a Dev Ops engineer with strong Linux skills to work on
automation, deployment, monitoring, integration and investigating complex
issues.

Responsibilities:

The successful candidate will have overall help work closely with our
Engineering and Operations teams to help improve our automation, packaging,
continuous integration and monitoring across our PaaS offerings. Will help wo=
rk
with our field engineers and support teams to investigate complex issues and
design and architect customer solutions to meet customers needs. Investigate
complicated issues, debugging distributed systems involving multiple componen=
ts
to isolate problems. As part of investigation it is expected that this person
will be able to reference the source code to understand what is going on, and
perform investigations involving packet dumps, log files and monitoring data
from multiple systems. Work with engineering and product leads to provide
feedback on to the product into areas where it can be improved and enhanced.
This role will involve some out-of-hours work on deployments and/or on-call
rotas.

Experience/Skillset Required:

Excellent Linux skills - solid background in systems administration,
knowledge/experience of investigating issues and bottlenecks. Strong
understanding of Internet networking covering IP networks, Internet protocols
and technologies, packet dumps. Good basic programming experience, able to wr=
ite
and understand programs in a variety of languages with experience of Python (=
or
at least Python-like languages such as Ruby or Perl) and Javascript.  Experie=
nce
of using Unix tools to help analyse log files (e.g. use of tools like =E2=80=
=98awk=E2=80=99,
=E2=80=98grep=E2=80=99, =E2=80=98uniq=E2=80=99) Experience of using automatio=
n tools for deployment (e.g.
Puppet or Chef) and monitoring tools. Experience of using/building network
monitoring and alerting systems. Experience of Linux software packaging (e.g.
building RPMs or DEBs) Pragmatic and flexible attitude, and a desire to solve
the customer requirement. Fluent English speaker with good written and verbal
communication skills. Able to work in the UK (EU citizen or existing work
permit), and able to work predominantly in our Cambourne office. Useful
Knowledge of video-related technologies covering encoding (transcoding),
protection (DRM) and delivery protocols (HLS, HDS, Smooth, RTMP) Basic
understanding of C, C++ and Java.

The Company We are a self-funded and established start-up employing about 35
people around the world. We are tackling the challenges around the delivery of
large volumes of data (e.g. video) over the Internet. As such we provide cont=
ent
delivery services to some of the largest networks in the world and are
responsible for service provision with extremely high uptime requirements.

Thanks Adam



--===============4981391190079499606==--


From mark@quarella.co.uk Tue Sep 23 16:03:31 2014
From: Mark Rogers <mark@quarella.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] .deb vs .rpm (or apt-get vs yum)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 16:03:07 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CADK3ZeEh+az7-FHu3U=2j07isPiHg1ckLYmt+n3QSqhfEhnKiw@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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It's been many years since I last used a .rpm based distribution in
anger, but the experience lead me to dislike them compared with .deb
based distros. In particular I had a number of occasions where an
installation issue lead me to a system that I could not fix, where
that has never happened to me yet in all my years with .deb-based
systems (Debian and Ubuntu). Sure I've had conflicts and problems, but
I've always been able to get pas them.

Am I right to trust .deb more than .rpm? Should I give (eg) Fedora
another chance?

Incidentally I also found package management faster with .deb (eg
apt-get update vs yum update, apt-get install vs yum install). Stable
beats speed but .deb seemed to give me both.

Mark

-- 
Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0844 251 1450
Registered in England (0456 0902) @ 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG


--===============0900540447234781894==--


From laurie@brownowl.com Tue Sep 23 16:44:14 2014
From: Laurie Brown <laurie@brownowl.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] .deb vs .rpm (or apt-get vs yum)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 16:44:05 +0100
Message-ID: <54219545.9040209@brownowl.com>
In-Reply-To:
 <CADK3ZeEh+az7-FHu3U=2j07isPiHg1ckLYmt+n3QSqhfEhnKiw@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 23/09/14 16:03, Mark Rogers wrote:
> It's been many years since I last used a .rpm based distribution in
> anger, but the experience lead me to dislike them compared with .deb
> based distros. In particular I had a number of occasions where an
> installation issue lead me to a system that I could not fix, where
> that has never happened to me yet in all my years with .deb-based
> systems (Debian and Ubuntu). Sure I've had conflicts and problems, but
> I've always been able to get pas them.
> 
> Am I right to trust .deb more than .rpm? Should I give (eg) Fedora
> another chance?
> 
> Incidentally I also found package management faster with .deb (eg
> apt-get update vs yum update, apt-get install vs yum install). Stable
> beats speed but .deb seemed to give me both.

I got badly burnt on a live SuSE system some years ago, and have never
been near an RPM-based system since. They are ok as long as you don't
deviate from the norm. In my experience, they are vulnerable to
catastrophic library and dependency problems if you deviate from the
"approved" packages, and especially is you compile something from scratch.

I started using Gentoo some 14 years ago, and have never looked back.
I've been using Ubuntu and derivatives as well for a year or two, and
haven't had any of the same problems.

Sadly, most contract assignments specify RH/Fedora or CentOS, and I not
only have little experience (FreePBX is the limit) but no inclination to
work with them again.

FWIW.

Cheers, Laurie.
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
                               Laurie Brown
                           laurie(a)brownowl.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------


--===============2837118566708201307==--


From ewan.slater@gmail.com Tue Sep 23 17:59:55 2014
From: Ewan Slater <ewan.slater@gmail.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] .deb vs .rpm (or apt-get vs yum)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:59:39 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CAHSJW-DgWY7Y0ch=VU8JkcCNdH0da4v3vBHZvdPNsE4fxNvkaQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <54219545.9040209@brownowl.com>
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> On 23/09/14 16:03, Mark Rogers wrote:
>>
>> Am I right to trust .deb more than .rpm? Should I give (eg) Fedora
>> another chance?
>>
>> Incidentally I also found package management faster with .deb (eg
>> apt-get update vs yum update, apt-get install vs yum install). Stable
>> beats speed but .deb seemed to give me both.

On 23 September 2014 16:44, Laurie Brown <laurie(a)brownowl.com> wrote:
> They are ok as long as you don't
> deviate from the norm. In my experience, they are vulnerable to
> catastrophic library and dependency problems if you deviate from the
> "approved" packages, and especially is you compile something from scratch.
>
> Sadly, most contract assignments specify RH/Fedora or CentOS

My employer has their own .rpm disto, which is therefore the preferred
platform for their products (at least on x86), and so I do a lot of
work with it (<disclaimer>all views here strictly
personal!</disclaimer>).

As Laurie says, if you stick to the straight and narrow then .rpm
systems are fine.

However, I still prefer to use Debian where possible (at work), and
pretty much exclusively at home.  Every six months or so I go on a
"distro walk", flirt with something else, get hacked off and then come
back to Debian.

Cheers,

Ewan


--===============6135921424210137851==--


From mbm@rlogin.net Wed Sep 24 13:21:33 2014
From: mick <mbm@rlogin.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] device only (or caldav) calendar on android
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 13:21:27 +0100
Message-ID: <164079119121.261833.4780794290620758294.generated@the.earth.li>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Guys

I have just bought a new mobile (dual sim Moto G) to replace both my
main 'phone and a backup.

I am /not/ a huge fan of Google, but since I hate apple even more,
the android device offers me the best functionality for the least
inavsion of privacy (within limits). Before even transferring my
personal data I locked the damned thing down to try to prevent as much
google synchronisation as I could (but still, stupidly, managed to
let the bloody thing send my contacts because I mssed one of the
buried sync settings).

That aside, I now really want to move my calendar data to the new
device. Previous devices (from HTC, Sony and Samsung) have allowed
me to set up a local, "device only" calendar. This new one won't and
insists that I link in a google account before I can add /any/ data
at all. So I'm looking for an alternative app. What I'd really
like is a CalDav style application which allows local only storage
on the 'phone, but will later allow me to sync to my own server
(when I finally get around to setting up owncloud).

Any and all advice (short of "throw the 'phone away") gratefully
accepted. Most of the calaenadrs on the google play site appear to be
little more than alternative skins to the underlying android calendar.

Cheers

Mick     

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 Mick Morgan
 gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B  72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312
 http://baldric.net

---------------------------------------------------------------------


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From lumos@gmx.co.uk Thu Sep 25 17:55:29 2014
From: Bev Nicolson <lumos@gmx.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] Bash flaw - uh oh
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 17:42:52 +0100
Message-ID: <5424460C.3020003@gmx.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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What should we do? Here it's just me and my computer to worry about for 
example and I have a firewall and a virus checker installed. Is that 
enough?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29361794

Bev


--===============8993916776466896817==--


From alug_cdw@the-walker-household.co.uk Thu Sep 25 18:10:25 2014
From: Chris Walker <alug_cdw@the-walker-household.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] Phone backups
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 18:10:23 +0100
Message-ID: <20140925181023.21fbeeab@the-walker-household.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hello,

I have a Jolla phone which runs linux. Unfortunately the speaker has
stopped working which rather renders it useless as a phone so it has to
go back to Finland for repair. Jolla have suggested I take a backup as
they will reset it and wipe it. But their backup doesn't backup
everything so can I copy everything off it perhaps from this machine?

I easily ssh into the phone as a user and then switch to 'devel-su'
mode but I don't appear to be able to ssh into it as root.

I've tried to run scp from within the phone (using ssh) to a NAS drive
but I can't make it connect. At this stage I'd rather not install loads
of extra software on the phone just to do the backup so any ideas about
copying everything off the phone before it goes back would be
appreciated.

-- 
 __ __| |_ __ __  .----------------------------------------------.
/ _/ _` \ V  V /  |  mailto:alug_cdw(a)the-walker-household.co.uk  |
\__\__,_|\_/\_/   |______________________________________________|


--===============6331265651161756542==--


From alug_cdw@the-walker-household.co.uk Thu Sep 25 18:11:49 2014
From: Chris Walker <alug_cdw@the-walker-household.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Bash flaw - uh oh
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 18:11:48 +0100
Message-ID: <20140925181148.38c08127@the-walker-household.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <5424460C.3020003@gmx.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 17:42:52 +0100
Bev Nicolson <lumos(a)gmx.co.uk> wrote:

> What should we do? Here it's just me and my computer to worry about
> for example and I have a firewall and a virus checker installed. Is
> that enough?
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29361794

My machine had an update this morning to bash and a couple of other
things.

-- 
 __ __| |_ __ __  .----------------------------------------------.
/ _/ _` \ V  V /  |  mailto:alug_cdw(a)the-walker-household.co.uk  |
\__\__,_|\_/\_/   |______________________________________________|


--===============2725701934831756933==--


From lentonp@gmail.com Thu Sep 25 18:20:38 2014
From: Paul Lenton <lentonp@gmail.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Bash flaw - uh oh
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 18:20:33 +0100
Message-ID: <ca15fdc6-72e5-4f25-b5d3-5c002f233ba8@email.android.com>
In-Reply-To: <20140925181148.38c08127@the-walker-household.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0388083536440668401=="

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You can test if your version of bash is affected by running the command

env x=3D'() { :;}; echo vulnerable' bash -c "echo this is a test"

If you get the output

vulnerable
 this is a test

Then you need to update. (If you don't have a vulnerable version then you'll =
get some error about x not being iniatialised.)
Ubuntu LTS, Fedora and Debian (along with RHEL/CentOS) have already prepared =
fixes. Failing that, you can grab the source online and manually replace bash.

There may be other distros that have fixes but those are the ones I know of. =

Also, as the BBC article says, hackers are lazy. They have a known exploit th=
at they'll try against big targets (servers, mostly) so if you're just runnin=
g a computer at home, I'd reckon you're fairly low on the list of targets :-)

Cheers

On 25 September 2014 18:11:48 GMT+01:00, Chris Walker <alug_cdw(a)the-walker-=
household.co.uk> wrote:
>On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 17:42:52 +0100
>Bev Nicolson <lumos(a)gmx.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> What should we do? Here it's just me and my computer to worry about
>> for example and I have a firewall and a virus checker installed. Is
>> that enough?
>>=20
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29361794
>
>My machine had an update this morning to bash and a couple of other
>things.

--=20
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.


--===============0388083536440668401==--


From Ted.Harding@wlandres.net Thu Sep 25 20:24:22 2014
From: Ted.Harding@wlandres.net
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Bash flaw - uh oh
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 20:24:16 +0100
Message-ID: <XFMail.20140925202416.Ted.Harding@wlandres.net>
In-Reply-To: <ca15fdc6-72e5-4f25-b5d3-5c002f233ba8@email.android.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8739868558223746224=="

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Also have a look at the quite long thread on the MAN-LUG list:

https://listserv.manchester.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A1=3Dind1409&L=3DMAN-LUG#6

Best wishes to all,
Ted.

On 25-Sep-2014 17:20:33 Paul Lenton wrote:
> You can test if your version of bash is affected by running the command
>=20
> env x=3D'() { :;}; echo vulnerable' bash -c "echo this is a test"
>=20
> If you get the output
>=20
> vulnerable
>  this is a test
>=20
> Then you need to update. (If you don't have a vulnerable version then you'll
> get some error about x not being iniatialised.)
> Ubuntu LTS, Fedora and Debian (along with RHEL/CentOS) have already prepared
> fixes. Failing that, you can grab the source online and manually replace
> bash.
>=20
> There may be other distros that have fixes but those are the ones I know of=
.=20
> Also, as the BBC article says, hackers are lazy. They have a known exploit
> that they'll try against big targets (servers, mostly) so if you're just
> running a computer at home, I'd reckon you're fairly low on the list of
> targets :-)
>=20
> Cheers
>=20
> On 25 September 2014 18:11:48 GMT+01:00, Chris Walker
> <alug_cdw(a)the-walker-household.co.uk> wrote:
>>On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 17:42:52 +0100
>>Bev Nicolson <lumos(a)gmx.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> What should we do? Here it's just me and my computer to worry about
>>> for example and I have a firewall and a virus checker installed. Is
>>> that enough?
>>>=20
>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29361794
>>
>>My machine had an update this morning to bash and a couple of other
>>things.
>=20
> --=20
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> main(a)lists.alug.org.uk
> http://www.alug.org.uk/
> http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main
> Unsubscribe?  See message headers or the web site above!

-------------------------------------------------
E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)wlandres.net>
Date: 25-Sep-2014  Time: 20:24:12
This message was sent by XFMail
-------------------------------------------------


--===============8739868558223746224==--


From alug_cdw@the-walker-household.co.uk Fri Sep 26 11:24:26 2014
From: Chris Walker <alug_cdw@the-walker-household.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Phone backups
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:24:24 +0100
Message-ID: <20140926112424.4a85bb12@the-walker-household.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <20140925181023.21fbeeab@the-walker-household.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 18:10:23 +0100
Chris Walker <alug_cdw(a)the-walker-household.co.uk> wrote:

> Hello,
[snip]
> I've tried to run scp from within the phone (using ssh) to a NAS drive
> but I can't make it connect. At this stage I'd rather not install
> loads of extra software on the phone just to do the backup so any
> ideas about copying everything off the phone before it goes back
> would be appreciated.

Physician heal thyself!

I found a micro SD card in my old Nokia N900 and stuffed that into the
phone and have now successfully done an rsync of various directories
from the phone to the sd card.

-- 
 __ __| |_ __ __  .----------------------------------------------.
/ _/ _` \ V  V /  |  mailto:alug_cdw(a)the-walker-household.co.uk  |
\__\__,_|\_/\_/   |______________________________________________|


--===============6499925647787033470==--


From mark@quarella.co.uk Fri Sep 26 11:25:48 2014
From: Mark Rogers <mark@quarella.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] .deb vs .rpm (or apt-get vs yum)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:25:25 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CADK3ZeFRzRr_t9qscC0ju5oS0eHnfF_qjXwAP2_jF+o7zbjsiA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To:
 <CAHSJW-DgWY7Y0ch=VU8JkcCNdH0da4v3vBHZvdPNsE4fxNvkaQ@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 23 September 2014 17:59, Ewan Slater <ewan.slater(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> As Laurie says, if you stick to the straight and narrow then .rpm
> systems are fine.
>
> However [...]


By this point I was expecting some counter arguments from rpm fans but
as it appears they're either quiet or non-existent it looks like I'll
be sticking with .deb based distros for the foreseeable future.

Thanks for the comments; it's nice to get a fairly clear cut response
on something I figured might be far more divisive!

Mark
-- 

Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0844 251 1450
Registered in England (0456 0902) @ 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG


--===============2987799632045240189==--


From cl@isbd.net Fri Sep 26 11:57:18 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Bash flaw - uh oh
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:57:15 +0100
Message-ID: <20140926105715.GA8492@chris>
In-Reply-To: <ca15fdc6-72e5-4f25-b5d3-5c002f233ba8@email.android.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 06:20:33PM +0100, Paul Lenton wrote:
> You can test if your version of bash is affected by running the command
> 
> env x='() { :;}; echo vulnerable' bash -c "echo this is a test"
> 
> If you get the output
> 
> vulnerable
>  this is a test
> 
My xubuntu got a bash update just now and appears to be fixed:-

    chris$ env x='() { :;}; echo vulnerable' bash -c "echo this is a test"
    bash: warning: x: ignoring function definition attempt
    bash: error importing function definition for `x'
    this is a test

Is there an explanation of the vulnerability in bash out there
somewhere?  All I've seen so far is panic stricken reports about it,
but no sort of explanation.

What I don't quite understand is how a hacker ever gets to the point
of being able to run bash without having broken into a system already.

-- 
Chris Green


--===============2932193634679363096==--


From lentonp@gmail.com Fri Sep 26 12:09:51 2014
From: Paul Lenton <lentonp@gmail.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Bash flaw - uh oh
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:09:41 +0100
Message-ID: <7d958a51-6622-4805-b945-a3871b788734@email.android.com>
In-Reply-To: <20140926105715.GA8492@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The top answer to this question is probably the best I've seen so far. Like y=
ou, I've only really seen alarmist media claims.=20

http://askubuntu.com/questions/528101/what-is-the-cve-2014-6271-bash-vulnerab=
ility-and-how-do-i-fix-it

Cheers

On 26 September 2014 11:57:15 GMT+01:00, Chris Green <cl(a)isbd.net> wrote:
>On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 06:20:33PM +0100, Paul Lenton wrote:
>> You can test if your version of bash is affected by running the
>command
>>=20
>> env x=3D'() { :;}; echo vulnerable' bash -c "echo this is a test"
>>=20
>> If you get the output
>>=20
>> vulnerable
>>  this is a test
>>=20
>My xubuntu got a bash update just now and appears to be fixed:-
>
> chris$ env x=3D'() { :;}; echo vulnerable' bash -c "echo this is a test"
>    bash: warning: x: ignoring function definition attempt
>    bash: error importing function definition for `x'
>    this is a test
>
>Is there an explanation of the vulnerability in bash out there
>somewhere?  All I've seen so far is panic stricken reports about it,
>but no sort of explanation.
>
>What I don't quite understand is how a hacker ever gets to the point
>of being able to run bash without having broken into a system already.

--=20
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.


--===============3480230572823241997==--


From adam@thebowery.co.uk Fri Sep 26 12:33:09 2014
From: Adam Bower <adam@thebowery.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Bash flaw - uh oh
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:33:06 +0100
Message-ID: <20140926113306.GA12760@electron>
In-Reply-To: <20140926105715.GA8492@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:57:15AM +0100, Chris Green wrote:
> 
> Is there an explanation of the vulnerability in bash out there
> somewhere?  All I've seen so far is panic stricken reports about it,
> but no sort of explanation.

You need to look harder, there's many good articles out there. 

> What I don't quite understand is how a hacker ever gets to the point
> of being able to run bash without having broken into a system already.

http://www.troyhunt.com/2014/09/everything-you-need-to-know-about.html

^^^ because of attack vectors like these, after checking logs (of
machines on our CDN) I've seen people actively trying to exploit this 
a few hours after the announcement.

https://www.trustedsec.com/september-2014/shellshock-dhcp-rce-proof-concept/

^^^ You also have attack vectors like that where just connecting to a
lan or wifi network could lead you to having an exploit performed
against you. 

Adam


--===============1925026107281654470==--


From jessejazza3.uk@gmail.com Fri Sep 26 13:14:33 2014
From: James Freer <jessejazza3.uk@gmail.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] .deb vs .rpm (or apt-get vs yum)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 13:14:31 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CAAuthdRimMZb1P2y__6PVqsvSQ0YWK6NYKni57KewS2b_bu6QQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To:
 <CADK3ZeFRzRr_t9qscC0ju5oS0eHnfF_qjXwAP2_jF+o7zbjsiA@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 26 September 2014 11:25, Mark Rogers <mark(a)quarella.co.uk> wrote:
> On 23 September 2014 17:59, Ewan Slater <ewan.slater(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> As Laurie says, if you stick to the straight and narrow then .rpm
>> systems are fine.
>>
>> However [...]

Hi Mark

> By this point I was expecting some counter arguments from rpm fans but
> as it appears they're either quiet or non-existent it looks like I'll

Only just read this conversation as I've been rather busy for a while.
The fair answer is along the lines of 'all things considered' i feel -
no distro is quite what i'd like. Plus one should bear in mind desktop
or server use - learn a distro well was what Dr Jeep said to me when I
first started using linux and I still agree with that.

I'm not an IT graduate so I am not basing my views purely on the
technical side. i started with ubuntu with 6.10 in early 2007. I
always thought it was the best but over the last couple of years I
think they've gone downhill in various ways. There's lots to consider;
package management, usability, 'polish', upgrading etc. I started with
Synaptic and apt on the cli but have found problems. As for rpm
dependency hell I think it's fair to say that is a thing of the past.
Yum is slower but it 'chugs' through updating whereas apt is quicker.
Apt still leaves orphan's i find although the addition of option
'autoremove' almost eliminated it. Aptitude is the best debian package
management but that has its faults... too clever by half!

I have done a bit of distro hopping just to compare and most times I
have come back to xubuntu (since 2010... never tried unity but wanted
to avoid 'bloat and bling'). Centos may be good for a server but not
so good for a desktop... it's a server distro and for that it's great.
Their repos don't have a lot of packages that i'd like on a desktop.
Debian is both but... i won't give my view for personal safety
reasons!

Package management I like most is the modular one which helps make a
distro more stable but the distros... have other problems e.g. like
one-two person maintenance and if ill? Mint xfce had that problem. The
main distros apart from Mint have the backup but that could have been
remedied by now. salix is good, Vl is good but still the same problem.

Main distros are best regarding support. Six month upgrades I've got
fed up with and found an annual upgrade about right for my uses. i
dislike the attitude with 6 month releases - stick out 20th of the
release month whatever... Ubuntu has been bad sometimes and Fedora 18
or 19 wouldn't even load from CD. ubuntu now only do updates for 9
months so one cannot miss out a release.... use LTS you may say - I
found bugs in 12.04 which weren't sorted.

One gripe I have is most debian based distros use debian repos and
thus 'sponge off them' which i don't like on principal. RPM use their
own which I prefer. Suse, nothing against it but I didn't like the way
their repos were set up.

Ubuntu appear to have dropped synaptic which I like (software centre
is not my taste). Gslapt was close to synaptic and either is still my
preference.

So what have I changed to for desktop use? The distro-hopper-stopper
is it's nickname - it is rpm and v.stable so far. Also an annual
release and few bugs so far. Another clue - synaptic for package
management. Finally i've got a scanner to work... messed about on
ubuntu for ages.

> Thanks for the comments; it's nice to get a fairly clear cut response
> on something I figured might be far more divisive!

Hope that's fair! as for debian... safety reasons!!! But I'm moving
away from Suffolk shortly so doesn't matter really.

james


--===============2645616993876601306==--


From tony.anson@girolle.co.uk Fri Sep 26 13:33:22 2014
From: Anthony Anson <tony.anson@girolle.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Bash flaw - uh oh
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:59:15 +0100
Message-ID: <54255513.7090705@girolle.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <5424460C.3020003@gmx.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 25/09/14 17:42, Bev Nicolson wrote:

> What should we do? Here it's just me and my computer to worry about for
> example and I have a firewall and a virus checker installed. Is that
> enough?

More than I've got...

There will be a fix, never fear.

-- 
Tony
http://www.girolle.co.uk/


--===============0985638471424853102==--


From mark@quarella.co.uk Fri Sep 26 15:03:19 2014
From: Mark Rogers <mark@quarella.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Bash flaw - uh oh
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:02:57 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CADK3ZeGRE9STc2ym-wWK8hdSPk5CuNiBauuskMS_QxDr3a4xtg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20140926113306.GA12760@electron>
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On 26 September 2014 12:33, Adam Bower <adam(a)thebowery.co.uk> wrote:
> ^^^ because of attack vectors like these, after checking logs (of
> machines on our CDN) I've seen people actively trying to exploit this
> a few hours after the announcement.

I've run some automated tests on some machines of ours that should be
vulnerable on the basis of the bash version alone, but none have
thrown up issues. We don't generally enable cgi so I think that's the
key for us. (That's not to say I'm not patching them anyway...)

To add to the joys of this, I have had to patch some old versions of
Ubuntu (6.06 and 11.04 so far, 8.04 to follow). This can be fun when
the servers themselves don't have build tools on them, so I've
resorted to creating VMs from old distro ISOs, installing build tools,
building the latest bash and copying the binaries across. I mention it
in case anyone else needs the binaries (not that you should be
trusting me unless you know me, of-course, and they come with zero
warranty!) Of-course I shouldn't have any boxes with unsupported
versions on them, but the real world isn't always as clean as it
should be.. I have x86 binaries only, but can tell you how I created
them for anyone stuck on different versions/architectures.

-- 
Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0844 251 1450
Registered in England (0456 0902) @ 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG


--===============1631757264162604631==--


From lumos@gmx.co.uk Fri Sep 26 15:49:28 2014
From: Bev Nicolson <lumos@gmx.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Bash flaw - uh oh
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:49:26 +0100
Message-ID: <54257CF6.4050601@gmx.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <54255513.7090705@girolle.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 26/09/14 12:59, Anthony Anson wrote:
> On 25/09/14 17:42, Bev Nicolson wrote:
>
>> What should we do? Here it's just me and my computer to worry about for
>> example and I have a firewall and a virus checker installed. Is that
>> enough?
>
> More than I've got...
>
> There will be a fix, never fear.
>
Paul's* diagnostic has proved useful though so I'm happpier now I have a 
updated system whilst being entirely confident that the Linux community 
will do just that.

Bev.

*I'm crediting Paul whether it came from him or not!


--===============4872031291812104372==--


From adam@thebowery.co.uk Fri Sep 26 19:07:58 2014
From: Adam Bower <adam@thebowery.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Bash flaw - uh oh
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 19:07:56 +0100
Message-ID: <20140926180756.GB12760@electron>
In-Reply-To:
 <CADK3ZeGRE9STc2ym-wWK8hdSPk5CuNiBauuskMS_QxDr3a4xtg@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 03:02:57PM +0100, Mark Rogers wrote:
> 
> I've run some automated tests on some machines of ours that should be
> vulnerable on the basis of the bash version alone, but none have
> thrown up issues. We don't generally enable cgi so I think that's the
> key for us. (That's not to say I'm not patching them anyway...)

We found a few possible attack vectors while we were patching but they
were quite obscure and would always need certain types of authenticated
users, but of course if someone could get around that then it may be a
problem.

On the basis that it had to be done we upgraded everything today
including the 300 machines we did yesterday to get the latest patch.
Total count was over 400 machines with a few stragglers left in
non-public networks that if people got to them then we already have a
bigger problem. They'll all get done next week. 

One thing I would suggest is that if you're using Debian you look at
installing unattended-upgrades as around half of our Debian stock had
this already and many machines which didn't yesterday but I installed it
on yesterday were updated by the time I got to the office.

Adam


--===============6525556730078990908==--


From alug_cdw@the-walker-household.co.uk Sat Sep 27 10:13:47 2014
From: Chris Walker <alug_cdw@the-walker-household.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Phone backups
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:13:45 +0100
Message-ID: <20140927101345.5d08176d@the-walker-household.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <20140926112424.4a85bb12@the-walker-household.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:24:24 +0100
Chris Walker <alug_cdw(a)the-walker-household.co.uk> wrote:

> On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 18:10:23 +0100
> Chris Walker <alug_cdw(a)the-walker-household.co.uk> wrote:
>=20
> > Hello,
> [snip]
> > I've tried to run scp from within the phone (using ssh) to a NAS
> > drive but I can't make it connect. At this stage I'd rather not
> > install loads of extra software on the phone just to do the backup
> > so any ideas about copying everything off the phone before it goes
> > back would be appreciated.
>=20
> Physician heal thyself!
>=20
> I found a micro SD card in my old Nokia N900 and stuffed that into the
> phone and have now successfully done an rsync of various directories
> from the phone to the sd card.

Problems surfaced here when the device, something with 16GB of memory,
managed to fill a 16GB memory card.

I managed to find a mount.cifs rpm for the phone and installed that. I
can now mount my NAS box on the phone but I'm running into more
problems with that.

I'm using this command :-
/sbin/mount.cifs //192.168.1.25/Linux_Share/Jolla_Backup/Full_Backup -o
username=3DXxxxxx,password=3DXxxxxx,uid=3Dnemo,gid=3Dnemo,sec=3Dntlm /media/L=
inux_Share/

If I then look at the output of mount, I see this :-
//192.168.1.25/Linux_Share/Jolla_Backup/Full_Backup
on /media/Linux_Share type cifs
(rw,relatime,sec=3Dntlm,unc=3D\\192.168.1.25\Linux_Share,username=3DXxxxxx,ui=
d=3D100000,forceuid,gid=3D100000,forcegid,addr=3D192.168.1.25,unix,posixpaths=
,serverino,acl,rsize=3D61440,wsize=3D65536,actimeo=3D1)

I'm using this command to 'sync' the files :-
rsync -arv
--exclude=3D{"/dev/*","/proc/*","/sys/*","/tmp/*","/run/*","/mnt/*","/media/*=
","/lost+found"} /* /media/Linux_Share

But when it runs, I'm seeing lots of these errors :-
rsync: chown
"/media/Linux_Share/data/app/.me.scan.android.client-1.apk.bqi2SO"
failed: Permission denied (13)

If I check the attributes of the files on the NAS, they're all shown
with my userid and group but how can that be when the phone is issuing
these commands and there is no user 'chris' on that?

Oh. I should mention that I first issued the command 'devel-su' to run
everything as root.

I'm puzzled and would appreciate some help as there's little point in
doing a backup if the backup is not worth anything due to wrong
permissions.

--=20
 __ __| |_ __ __  .----------------------------------------------.
/ _/ _` \ V  V /  |  mailto:alug_cdw(a)the-walker-household.co.uk  |
\__\__,_|\_/\_/   |______________________________________________|


--===============8851157852353430458==--


From laurie@brownowl.com Sat Sep 27 10:22:54 2014
From: Laurie Brown <laurie@brownowl.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Phone backups
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:22:50 +0100
Message-ID: <542681EA.6030001@brownowl.com>
In-Reply-To: <20140927101345.5d08176d@the-walker-household.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9166457940223303576=="

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On 27/09/14 10:13, Chris Walker wrote:

[SNIP]

> I'm puzzled and would appreciate some help as there's little point in
> doing a backup if the backup is not worth anything due to wrong
> permissions.

On my android, I use ES File Explorer to mount a samba share on my
server. Works a treat.

Cheers, Laurie.
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
                               Laurie Brown
                           laurie(a)brownowl.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------


--===============9166457940223303576==--


From alug_cdw@the-walker-household.co.uk Sat Sep 27 10:41:54 2014
From: Chris Walker <alug_cdw@the-walker-household.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Phone backups
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:41:52 +0100
Message-ID: <20140927104152.52a20d42@the-walker-household.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <542681EA.6030001@brownowl.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:22:50 +0100
Laurie Brown <laurie(a)brownowl.com> wrote:

> On 27/09/14 10:13, Chris Walker wrote:
> 
> [SNIP]
> 
> > I'm puzzled and would appreciate some help as there's little point
> > in doing a backup if the backup is not worth anything due to wrong
> > permissions.
> 
> On my android, I use ES File Explorer to mount a samba share on my
> server. Works a treat.

So are you saying that it's the way I'm mounting the share that's the
cause of the problem?

Although Jolla phones *can* run Android apps, I'm not sure that it
would have access to the underlying file structure. But I'm far from
sure on that point.

-- 
 __ __| |_ __ __  .----------------------------------------------.
/ _/ _` \ V  V /  |  mailto:alug_cdw(a)the-walker-household.co.uk  |
\__\__,_|\_/\_/   |______________________________________________|


--===============5369772818645518430==--


From mark@quarella.co.uk Sat Sep 27 17:12:25 2014
From: Mark Rogers <mark@quarella.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Bash flaw - uh oh
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 17:12:03 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CADK3ZeEtQKtncxdv=cjrPTrW7OAFZWffJO5pXxz0NYbuqPf4rA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20140926180756.GB12760@electron>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 26 September 2014 19:07, Adam Bower <adam(a)thebowery.co.uk> wrote:
> One thing I would suggest is that if you're using Debian you look at
> installing unattended-upgrades as around half of our Debian stock had
> this already and many machines which didn't yesterday but I installed it
> on yesterday were updated by the time I got to the office.

Do unattended upgrades ever cause any problems?

I did experiment with them on Ubuntu some years back but since then
have tended to do it myself, but I'm not really sure why.

Incidentally I now have x86 bash binaries for Ubuntu 6.06, 8.04 and
11.04 if anyone needs them.
-- 
Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0844 251 1450
Registered in England (0456 0902) @ 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG


--===============1949065705410704216==--


From mark@quarella.co.uk Sat Sep 27 17:21:02 2014
From: Mark Rogers <mark@quarella.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] .deb vs .rpm (or apt-get vs yum)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 17:20:40 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CADK3ZeE6cT9d58b0mAB_MOz0dwQiEpsdJC84y9GXzNC16kYExg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To:
 <CAAuthdRimMZb1P2y__6PVqsvSQ0YWK6NYKni57KewS2b_bu6QQ@mail.gmail.com>
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On 26 September 2014 13:14, James Freer <jessejazza3.uk(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26 September 2014 11:25, Mark Rogers <mark(a)quarella.co.uk> wrote:
> Main distros are best regarding support. Six month upgrades I've got
> fed up with and found an annual upgrade about right for my uses. i
> dislike the attitude with 6 month releases - stick out 20th of the
> release month whatever... Ubuntu has been bad sometimes and Fedora 18
> or 19 wouldn't even load from CD. ubuntu now only do updates for 9
> months so one cannot miss out a release.... use LTS you may say - I
> found bugs in 12.04 which weren't sorted.

I've pretty much standardised on LTS for anything other than personal
deskop/laptop and haven't really had any problems.

Since I have pretty much decided to stick with .deb package management
(because it's what I know and there doesn't seem anything better) that
limits my choices really to Debian, Ubuntu and Mint. As far as Mint is
concerned their decision not to support in-place upgrades has ruled
that out (LMDE would be fine as a rolling distro though, one day I'll
probably try that). This is the thing about .deb package management:
I've had cause to do some pretty rough things with it (like upgrade
Ubuntu versions skipping one or two releases because it's been left
until the intermediate releases have ceased to be available) and
although I've had problems it's generally been OK (and usually we're
talking virtual machines which are easy to backup and roll-back if it
goes wrong). I just don't have that kind of faith in .rpm.

I've learned to get used to Unity now (and I find KDE annoying more
than I expected) so I think that determines my direction, but if it
weren't for their use of rpm I'd have given Fedora (and maybe SuSE)
much more of a chance. But isn't it great to have a choice!

-- 
Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0844 251 1450
Registered in England (0456 0902) @ 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG


--===============4088450119928484672==--


From adam@thebowery.co.uk Sat Sep 27 18:09:53 2014
From: Adam Bower <adam@thebowery.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Bash flaw - uh oh
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:09:50 +0100
Message-ID: <20140927170950.GC12760@electron>
In-Reply-To:
 <CADK3ZeEtQKtncxdv=cjrPTrW7OAFZWffJO5pXxz0NYbuqPf4rA@mail.gmail.com>
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On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 05:12:03PM +0100, Mark Rogers wrote:
> 
> Do unattended upgrades ever cause any problems?

Only when people manually install things in the same location as the
system binaries or hack bits of the system that then get upgraded when
the package is updated. Then things break, I see this a good thing as it
encourages people to not do stupid things :)

Adam


--===============0184174028330838745==--


From jessejazza3.uk@gmail.com Sat Sep 27 19:52:17 2014
From: James Freer <jessejazza3.uk@gmail.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] .deb vs .rpm (or apt-get vs yum)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 19:52:14 +0100
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1409271940420.2130@main>
In-Reply-To:
 <CADK3ZeE6cT9d58b0mAB_MOz0dwQiEpsdJC84y9GXzNC16kYExg@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sat, 27 Sep 2014, Mark Rogers wrote:

> On 26 September 2014 13:14, James Freer <jessejazza3.uk(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 26 September 2014 11:25, Mark Rogers <mark(a)quarella.co.uk> wrote:
>> Main distros are best regarding support. Six month upgrades I've got
>> fed up with and found an annual upgrade about right for my uses. i
>> dislike the attitude with 6 month releases - stick out 20th of the
>> release month whatever... Ubuntu has been bad sometimes and Fedora 18
>> or 19 wouldn't even load from CD. ubuntu now only do updates for 9
>> months so one cannot miss out a release.... use LTS you may say - I
>> found bugs in 12.04 which weren't sorted.
>
> I've pretty much standardised on LTS for anything other than personal
> deskop/laptop and haven't really had any problems.
>
> Since I have pretty much decided to stick with .deb package management
> (because it's what I know and there doesn't seem anything better) that
> limits my choices really to Debian, Ubuntu and Mint. As far as Mint is
> concerned their decision not to support in-place upgrades has ruled
> that out (LMDE would be fine as a rolling distro though, one day I'll
> probably try that). This is the thing about .deb package management:
> I've had cause to do some pretty rough things with it (like upgrade
> Ubuntu versions skipping one or two releases because it's been left
> until the intermediate releases have ceased to be available) and
> although I've had problems it's generally been OK (and usually we're
> talking virtual machines which are easy to backup and roll-back if it
> goes wrong). I just don't have that kind of faith in .rpm.
>
> I've learned to get used to Unity now (and I find KDE annoying more
> than I expected) so I think that determines my direction, but if it
> weren't for their use of rpm I'd have given Fedora (and maybe SuSE)
> much more of a chance. But isn't it great to have a choice!
>
> --=20
> Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0844 251 1450
> Registered in England (0456 0902) @ 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG

In place upgrades is something I've not done as... from what I've read it's n=
ot=20
recommended. So if you've had no few problems all I can say is you are lucky.=
=20
I've always installed from CD/DVD live; doing the gparted disk check first an=
d=20
then installing. Most of the posts on ubuntu forum and mailing list is becaus=
e=20
people haven't done an md5sum/sha256sum check on an iso burn or upgrade. The =

12.04 to 14.04 seems to have lots of problems.

"But isn't it great to have a choice!" But the choice isn't so great. Each=20
distro has it's problems. I'd like a slackware based one as the modular syste=
m=20
is more stable than deb or rpm. I don't think there's a great difference=20
between the two.

james


--===============5561557932805033680==--


From steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk Sun Sep 28 00:53:02 2014
From: steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Phone backups
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 00:52:58 +0100
Message-ID: <54274DDA.40801@hst.me.uk>
In-Reply-To: <20140927101345.5d08176d@the-walker-household.co.uk>
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On 27/09/14 10:13, Chris Walker wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:24:24 +0100
> Chris Walker <alug_cdw(a)the-walker-household.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 18:10:23 +0100
>> Chris Walker <alug_cdw(a)the-walker-household.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> []
>>
>> I found a micro SD card in my old Nokia N900 and stuffed that into the
>> phone and have now successfully done an rsync of various directories
>> from the phone to the sd card.
> Problems surfaced here when the device, something with 16GB of memory,
> managed to fill a 16GB memory card.

In the past I've tried to use an rsync backup command and I've failed to=20
exclude the media I'm backing up onto, which results in a backup that=20
never ends until it's consumed all the disk space, as it backs up=20
everything, including the backup, and as it backs up the backup, the=20
backup gets bigger, which gets backed up....

I'd be tempted to backing up to the SD card again, but create an archive=20
or compressed archive instead on the sd card - this should avoid any=20
file permission problems.
>
> I managed to find a mount.cifs rpm for the phone and installed that. I
> can now mount my NAS box on the phone but I'm running into more
> problems with that.
>
> I'm using this command :-
> /sbin/mount.cifs //192.168.1.25/Linux_Share/Jolla_Backup/Full_Backup -o
> username=3DXxxxxx,password=3DXxxxxx,uid=3Dnemo,gid=3Dnemo,sec=3Dntlm /media=
/Linux_Share/
>
> If I then look at the output of mount, I see this :-
> //192.168.1.25/Linux_Share/Jolla_Backup/Full_Backup
> on /media/Linux_Share type cifs
> (rw,relatime,sec=3Dntlm,unc=3D\\192.168.1.25\Linux_Share,username=3DXxxxxx,=
uid=3D100000,forceuid,gid=3D100000,forcegid,addr=3D192.168.1.25,unix,posixpat=
hs,serverino,acl,rsize=3D61440,wsize=3D65536,actimeo=3D1)
>
> I'm using this command to 'sync' the files :-
> rsync -arv
> --exclude=3D{"/dev/*","/proc/*","/sys/*","/tmp/*","/run/*","/mnt/*","/media=
/*","/lost+found"} /* /media/Linux_Share
>
I'd be tempted to add /media/Linux_Share to the list of excluded=20
directories, just to be 100% sure that it was excluded from the backup.

> But when it runs, I'm seeing lots of these errors :-
> rsync: chown
> "/media/Linux_Share/data/app/.me.scan.android.client-1.apk.bqi2SO"
> failed: Permission denied (13)

This gave me a clue:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=3D930041

If it's a Samba share, it may just be that you can't do a chown to the=20
files. - You've set the mount's  username in the mount command.

Again, I'd be temped to create an archive or compressed archive file on=20
the share.  The advantage is the file can be owned by any user, but=20
maintain the real file permissions and ownership within the file.

> If I check the attributes of the files on the NAS, they're all shown
> with my userid and group but how can that be when the phone is issuing
> these commands and there is no user 'chris' on that?

1) the mount command specifies the mount's user name - this may have=20
something to do with it.
2) Linux stores file ownership via the user number, not the actual name.=20
  Create a file on a system with user name sid user ID 1000. Access this=20
file from another system where user ID 1000 is James, and the user owner=20
name of the file will be James, not Sid.
>
> Oh. I should mention that I first issued the command 'devel-su' to run
> everything as root.
>
> I'm puzzled and would appreciate some help as there's little point in
> doing a backup if the backup is not worth anything due to wrong
> permissions.
>
I can vouch for the usefulness of ES FIle Explorer.

When I've had to backup phones before, I've done it like this.  I've=20
attached the phone to a computer using a USB cable.  The computer then=20
notices the phone and asks if I want to attach the storage device.  I=20
say yes, then create an archive from the mounted phone's drive.  This=20
has always  worked for me.

Good luck
Steve




--===============7718767827486369178==--


From mark@quarella.co.uk Sun Sep 28 12:08:21 2014
From: Mark Rogers <mark@quarella.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Bash flaw - uh oh
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 12:07:58 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CADK3ZeFhTYh-GTsQhr4pxwVFdegZwy_K7Hx82hS7W3RewRkpAg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20140927170950.GC12760@electron>
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On 27 September 2014 18:09, Adam Bower <adam(a)thebowery.co.uk> wrote:
> Only when people manually install things in the same location as the
> system binaries or hack bits of the system that then get upgraded when
> the package is updated. Then things break, I see this a good thing as it
> encourages people to not do stupid things :)

OK, you've convinced me! I'll start rolling it out.

-- 
Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0844 251 1450
Registered in England (0456 0902) @ 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG


--===============7646049962690744629==--


From mark@quarella.co.uk Sun Sep 28 12:21:25 2014
From: Mark Rogers <mark@quarella.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Bash flaw - uh oh
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 12:21:03 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CADK3ZeFL6VN3UxT8Qn_925j=hXS60Hb1jrCuK5PYwp1AggqOwg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To:
 <CADK3ZeFhTYh-GTsQhr4pxwVFdegZwy_K7Hx82hS7W3RewRkpAg@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 28 September 2014 12:07, Mark Rogers <mark(a)quarella.co.uk> wrote:
> OK, you've convinced me! I'll start rolling it out.

Out of curiosity, do you limit it to security updates or do you let it
go beyond that?

-- 
Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0844 251 1450
Registered in England (0456 0902) @ 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG


--===============0172141718114739129==--


From mark@quarella.co.uk Sun Sep 28 12:44:30 2014
From: Mark Rogers <mark@quarella.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] .deb vs .rpm (or apt-get vs yum)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 12:44:07 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CADK3ZeGcxtpWJ4MaZxZ5qj8wAoXjTcH3K4d5KPfjS8jyjHG=Ug@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1409271940420.2130@main>
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On 27 September 2014 19:52, James Freer <jessejazza3.uk(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> In place upgrades is something I've not done as... from what I've read it's
> not recommended.

I don't see any fundamental reason why an in place upgrade should
cause any more problems than any apt-get upgrade except that more
things get upgraded in one go. And I've never had any problems that
weren't related to the new distro itself (eg that it no longer
supported my old video hardware), ie they'd have hit me regardless of
whether I upgraded or went for a fresh install. A quick spin up from a
LiveCD before the upgrade is a good idea for that reason (although I'm
normally too lazy to bother). My attitude is that as long as important
stuff is backed up I should try the in-place upgrade, and if it breaks
I wipe and do a clean install, which is where I would have started
anyway otherwise.

> So if you've had no few problems all I can say is you are lucky.

On the contrary, it is down to the robustness of apt package
management, and the work that Ubuntu developers (in my case) put into
making it work; it's not just luck that I've been doing in place
upgrades since 5.x on various hardware and none of the problems have
been more hassle than doing a fresh install. (That said if anyone else
tries it and it fails it's not on me, ok?!?)

> I've always installed from CD/DVD live; doing the gparted disk check
> first and then installing. Most of the posts on ubuntu forum and mailing
> list is because people haven't done an md5sum/sha256sum check on an iso burn
> or upgrade. The 12.04 to 14.04 seems to have lots of problems.

Which is of-course one step that you don't have when doing an in-place
upgrade; no CD download, no issues burning the disk.

> "But isn't it great to have a choice!" But the choice isn't so great.

Consider the alternatives though. Hate Windows 8.x? Tough. Like
iPhones but don't want a huge one? Tough. Don't like Unity? Try
Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Mint, ...

Also, you expressed concern that Mint doesn't have many people behind
it; but realistically how long would it be before it was forked in the
event that development stopped.

I agree that none of them are perfect and sometimes you just wish that
instead of competing efforts on different products we could have all
that effort go into one, but the joy of FOSS is that you can generally
pick the best bits of each and combine them - quite often right down
to a a source code level. Since "best" is always going to be
subjective there's always going to be choice.

-- 
Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0844 251 1450
Registered in England (0456 0902) @ 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG


--===============0092051862107197502==--


From ewan.slater@gmail.com Mon Sep 29 10:57:50 2014
From: Ewan Slater <ewan.slater@gmail.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] .deb vs .rpm (or apt-get vs yum)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 10:57:49 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CAHSJW-BCu3pJDZNmxhunvFhsssxZ2bfS=gThFLmP3bMMHyFN=w@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1409271940420.2130@main>
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On 27 September 2014 19:52, James Freer <jessejazza3.uk(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> "But isn't it great to have a choice!" But the choice isn't so great. Each
> distro has it's problems. I'd like a slackware based one as the modular
> system is more stable than deb or rpm. I don't think there's a great
> difference between the two.

I tried Slackware recently.  It was fun in a retro way for a bit, but
the lack of package dependency management and the slackbuilds system
soon got tiresome.  So my geriatric laptop is back to running Debian /
XFCE.

Cheers,

Ewan


--===============5956553944963823191==--


From adam@thebowery.co.uk Mon Sep 29 13:01:07 2014
From: Adam Bower <adam@thebowery.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Bash flaw - uh oh
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 13:01:04 +0100
Message-ID: <20140929120104.GE12760@electron>
In-Reply-To:
 <CADK3ZeFL6VN3UxT8Qn_925j=hXS60Hb1jrCuK5PYwp1AggqOwg@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 12:21:03PM +0100, Mark Rogers wrote:
> On 28 September 2014 12:07, Mark Rogers <mark(a)quarella.co.uk> wrote:
> > OK, you've convinced me! I'll start rolling it out.
> 
> Out of curiosity, do you limit it to security updates or do you let it
> go beyond that?

Security updates only. Other stuff should be managed. I did have some
fallout over the weekend where someone had configured a machine without
unattended-upgrades but there was a symlink in /usr that pointed to some
config in /etc. What happened was someone changed the link destination
so that when the package was upgrade it put the original link back but
in a way this is a good thing as it stops people making stupid hacks
like that!

Adam


--===============6127455230012979693==--


From cl@isbd.net Mon Sep 29 14:25:27 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] Sort of design/philosphy/way to do it sort of question about
 remotely gathering data and putting in a database
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 14:25:23 +0100
Message-ID: <20140929132523.GC27734@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I have a Beaglebone Black which gathers various bits of data on our
boat in France.  At present these comprise some temperatures and
battery voltages and currents but there might be other things added.

I want to store these in a sqlite database on my desktop machine here
at home.  The mechanics of doing this are easy enough, I store the
data in a file named for the date and time on the Beaglebone Black and
at intervals my desktop machine mounts the directory where these files
are saved (using sshfs), reads the data, inserts it into the database
and then deletes the file.  This means that if the connection fails
for a while then nothing is lost, it's probably not by any means
perfect but it's good enough, my life doesn't depend on the data! :-)

At the moment the receiving end just assumes there are ten values
sent and that they are in a specific order.  E.g.  there's a file
there at the moment whose name is "2014-09-29_15:05.od" and whose
contents are:-

    '2014-09-29 15:05', 22.125, 22.75, 13.6285714286, 13.8876923077, 34.36875=
, 0.253125, 14.85, 8.803125, 8

I'm not really happy with this because it means that any changes I do
have to be 'synchronised' at the two ends to keep their knowledge of
which value is which in step.

Is there a standard way of labelling values in this sort of situation?
Should I send a file something like:-

    DateTime,           '2014-09-29 15:05'
    InsideTemperature,  22.125
    OutsideTemperature, 22.75
    LeisureVolts,       13.6285714286
    StarterVolts,       13.8876923077
    LeisureAmps1,       34.36875
    etc.

Then the first column of this data is the database field name and the
second column is the data.  If a field name doesn't exist then the
receiving program/script will create a new column.  This rather
depends on there always being a DateTime field so maybe the receiving
script could reject files with no DateTime value.

Does this seem a reasonable way to do it or are there better ways, or
should I just stay with the existing set-up where the order is
significant?

--=20
Chris Green


--===============2430557389601463794==--


From ewan.slater@gmail.com Mon Sep 29 14:44:59 2014
From: Ewan Slater <ewan.slater@gmail.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Sort of design/philosphy/way to do it sort of question
 about remotely gathering data and putting in a database
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 14:44:58 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CAHSJW-Agox7oAiENAMwfowKtv=G2GzXRPSPddN6w7fHcPm5jdw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20140929132523.GC27734@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Chris,

Would the data have any value to you if it wasn't timestamped?

Is there any way of getting the file created with a self describing
format like JSON or XML, so you know by looking at the file what each
value represents?

I'd be tempted to look at a NoSQL database since these have a more
flexible schema and are a lot less bothered about some records having
different structure to others.

Cheers,

Ewan

On 29 September 2014 14:25, Chris Green <cl(a)isbd.net> wrote:
> I have a Beaglebone Black which gathers various bits of data on our
> boat in France.  At present these comprise some temperatures and
> battery voltages and currents but there might be other things added.
>
> I want to store these in a sqlite database on my desktop machine here
> at home.  The mechanics of doing this are easy enough, I store the
> data in a file named for the date and time on the Beaglebone Black and
> at intervals my desktop machine mounts the directory where these files
> are saved (using sshfs), reads the data, inserts it into the database
> and then deletes the file.  This means that if the connection fails
> for a while then nothing is lost, it's probably not by any means
> perfect but it's good enough, my life doesn't depend on the data! :-)
>
> At the moment the receiving end just assumes there are ten values
> sent and that they are in a specific order.  E.g.  there's a file
> there at the moment whose name is "2014-09-29_15:05.od" and whose
> contents are:-
>
>     '2014-09-29 15:05', 22.125, 22.75, 13.6285714286, 13.8876923077, 34.368=
75, 0.253125, 14.85, 8.803125, 8
>
> I'm not really happy with this because it means that any changes I do
> have to be 'synchronised' at the two ends to keep their knowledge of
> which value is which in step.
>
> Is there a standard way of labelling values in this sort of situation?
> Should I send a file something like:-
>
>     DateTime,           '2014-09-29 15:05'
>     InsideTemperature,  22.125
>     OutsideTemperature, 22.75
>     LeisureVolts,       13.6285714286
>     StarterVolts,       13.8876923077
>     LeisureAmps1,       34.36875
>     etc.
>
> Then the first column of this data is the database field name and the
> second column is the data.  If a field name doesn't exist then the
> receiving program/script will create a new column.  This rather
> depends on there always being a DateTime field so maybe the receiving
> script could reject files with no DateTime value.
>
> Does this seem a reasonable way to do it or are there better ways, or
> should I just stay with the existing set-up where the order is
> significant?
>
> --
> Chris Green
>
> _______________________________________________
> main(a)lists.alug.org.uk
> http://www.alug.org.uk/
> http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main
> Unsubscribe?  See message headers or the web site above!


--===============1326607917988641821==--


From cl@isbd.net Mon Sep 29 15:06:43 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Sort of design/philosphy/way to do it sort of question
 about remotely gathering data and putting in a database
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:06:37 +0100
Message-ID: <20140929140636.GG27734@chris>
In-Reply-To:
 <CAHSJW-Agox7oAiENAMwfowKtv=G2GzXRPSPddN6w7fHcPm5jdw@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8184028005753188269=="

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On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 02:44:58PM +0100, Ewan Slater wrote:
> Hi Chris,
> 
> Would the data have any value to you if it wasn't timestamped?
> 
No, not really, it's the trends in battery voltage etc. which are
important.

> Is there any way of getting the file created with a self describing
> format like JSON or XML, so you know by looking at the file what each
> value represents?
> 
I can create it in whatever format I want as it's a Python (just my
preferred language) script that creates it.  I prefer something as
human readable as possible though so I'm not all *that* keen on XML,
it does seem to be flavour of the moment though.

I've just had a harder look at JSON (I've never really investigated it
before) and that actually looks quite sensible, I can understand it
without having to think too hard so writing my data in JSON format
seems like a good idea to me.  Thanks for that suggestion.


> I'd be tempted to look at a NoSQL database since these have a more
> flexible schema and are a lot less bothered about some records having
> different structure to others.
> 
There's not much in the way of lightweight (or any!) NoSQL databases
in the Ubuntu repositories, I'm not keen on going outside if I can
avoid it.

I think in reality just using JSON to transfer the data will give me
the structure I need.

-- 
Chris Green


--===============8184028005753188269==--


From ewan.slater@gmail.com Mon Sep 29 15:27:54 2014
From: Ewan Slater <ewan.slater@gmail.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Sort of design/philosphy/way to do it sort of question
 about remotely gathering data and putting in a database
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:27:52 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CAHSJW-ArwFWSE+TpTYEdiyuFso3iPnBhJi00UUC6g6MES=nn6Q@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20140929140636.GG27734@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7821001457369385992=="

--===============7821001457369385992==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

There are certainly packages for Mongo, Redis and BDB in the 14.04
repositories (haven't checked earlier).  And something called WhiteDB
which claims to be a lightweight NoSQL library.

YAML might also work for you as a self describing data format

On 29 September 2014 15:06, Chris Green <cl(a)isbd.net> wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 02:44:58PM +0100, Ewan Slater wrote:
>> Hi Chris,
>>
>> Would the data have any value to you if it wasn't timestamped?
>>
> No, not really, it's the trends in battery voltage etc. which are
> important.
>
>> Is there any way of getting the file created with a self describing
>> format like JSON or XML, so you know by looking at the file what each
>> value represents?
>>
> I can create it in whatever format I want as it's a Python (just my
> preferred language) script that creates it.  I prefer something as
> human readable as possible though so I'm not all *that* keen on XML,
> it does seem to be flavour of the moment though.
>
> I've just had a harder look at JSON (I've never really investigated it
> before) and that actually looks quite sensible, I can understand it
> without having to think too hard so writing my data in JSON format
> seems like a good idea to me.  Thanks for that suggestion.
>
>
>> I'd be tempted to look at a NoSQL database since these have a more
>> flexible schema and are a lot less bothered about some records having
>> different structure to others.
>>
> There's not much in the way of lightweight (or any!) NoSQL databases
> in the Ubuntu repositories, I'm not keen on going outside if I can
> avoid it.
>
> I think in reality just using JSON to transfer the data will give me
> the structure I need.
>
> --
> Chris Green
>
> _______________________________________________
> main(a)lists.alug.org.uk
> http://www.alug.org.uk/
> http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main
> Unsubscribe?  See message headers or the web site above!


--===============7821001457369385992==--


From mark@quarella.co.uk Mon Sep 29 16:55:10 2014
From: Mark Rogers <mark@quarella.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Sort of design/philosphy/way to do it sort of question
 about remotely gathering data and putting in a database
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 16:54:48 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CADK3ZeGRmE7myX-z=QAa5ZdtVKZdfHJZUx6bAtWOTZgRiK76rQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20140929132523.GC27734@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 29 September 2014 14:25, Chris Green <cl(a)isbd.net> wrote:
>     '2014-09-29 15:05', 22.125, 22.75, 13.6285714286, 13.8876923077, 34.368=
75, 0.253125, 14.85, 8.803125, 8

Silly question, but since this is just CSV data, why not stick with it
but put a header line above it listing the fields?

--=20
Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0844 251 1450
Registered in England (0456 0902) @ 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG


--===============5652340789442478535==--


From cl@isbd.net Mon Sep 29 17:06:37 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Sort of design/philosphy/way to do it sort of question
 about remotely gathering data and putting in a database
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 17:06:35 +0100
Message-ID: <20140929160634.GA32719@chris>
In-Reply-To:
 <CAHSJW-ArwFWSE+TpTYEdiyuFso3iPnBhJi00UUC6g6MES=nn6Q@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6310780343635601897=="

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
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On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 03:27:52PM +0100, Ewan Slater wrote:
> There are certainly packages for Mongo, Redis and BDB in the 14.04
> repositories (haven't checked earlier).  And something called WhiteDB
> which claims to be a lightweight NoSQL library.
> 
I just searched for noSQL in Synaptic and it didn't show me Mongo or
Redis.  I can't find BDP.  I saw WhiteDB but as it's just C libraries
it isn't a lot of use for a simple Python program.

Redis might be interesting.

> YAML might also work for you as a self describing data format
> 
Yes, possibly, my look at JSON took me to YAML as well.

-- 
Chris Green


--===============6310780343635601897==--


From cl@isbd.net Mon Sep 29 17:22:49 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Sort of design/philosphy/way to do it sort of question
 about remotely gathering data and putting in a database
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 17:22:46 +0100
Message-ID: <20140929162246.GB32719@chris>
In-Reply-To:
 <CADK3ZeGRmE7myX-z=QAa5ZdtVKZdfHJZUx6bAtWOTZgRiK76rQ@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 04:54:48PM +0100, Mark Rogers wrote:
> On 29 September 2014 14:25, Chris Green <cl(a)isbd.net> wrote:
> > '2014-09-29 15:05', 22.125, 22.75, 13.6285714286, 13.8876923077, 34.36875=
,=20
> 0.253125, 14.85, 8.803125, 8=20
>=20
> Silly question, but since this is just CSV data, why not stick with it
> but put a header line above it listing the fields?
>=20
Not a silly question at all, I could very easily do as you say and
it seems at first glance to be a good solution.

Is there any easy *programmatic* way to do an SQL insert from a CSV
with headings?

--=20
Chris Green


--===============6863134055556302234==--


From ewan.slater@gmail.com Mon Sep 29 20:21:17 2014
From: Ewan Slater <ewan.slater@gmail.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Sort of design/philosphy/way to do it sort of question
 about remotely gathering data and putting in a database
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 20:21:16 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CAHSJW-Bk_3=6VJaiajRjT30mBr6mNXMhXmC2At=VPNrvUnC_eQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20140929160634.GA32719@chris>
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Odd that you couldn't see them.  I was going off this list
http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/database/

BDB = Berkeley DB = Berkeley

On 29 September 2014 17:06, Chris Green <cl(a)isbd.net> wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 03:27:52PM +0100, Ewan Slater wrote:
>> There are certainly packages for Mongo, Redis and BDB in the 14.04
>> repositories (haven't checked earlier).  And something called WhiteDB
>> which claims to be a lightweight NoSQL library.
>>
> I just searched for noSQL in Synaptic and it didn't show me Mongo or
> Redis.  I can't find BDP.  I saw WhiteDB but as it's just C libraries
> it isn't a lot of use for a simple Python program.
>
> Redis might be interesting.
>
>> YAML might also work for you as a self describing data format
>>
> Yes, possibly, my look at JSON took me to YAML as well.
>
> --
> Chris Green
>
> _______________________________________________
> main(a)lists.alug.org.uk
> http://www.alug.org.uk/
> http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main
> Unsubscribe?  See message headers or the web site above!


--===============2901305060261796480==--


From viperfang@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 03:00:14 2014
From: Viperfang <viperfang@gmail.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] 2600 meeting at 18:00 on Friday the 3rd October.
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 02:00:15 +0000
Message-ID: <164079119297.261833.12519741517478342212.generated@the.earth.li>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0109369300695626794=="

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Quick heads up about this months Norwich 2600 meeting,
more info at http://www.norwich2600.co.uk


--===============0109369300695626794==--


From jessejazza3.uk@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 10:09:14 2014
From: James Freer <jessejazza3.uk@gmail.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] .deb vs .rpm (or apt-get vs yum)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 10:09:10 +0100
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1409301005130.3229@main>
In-Reply-To:
 <CADK3ZeGcxtpWJ4MaZxZ5qj8wAoXjTcH3K4d5KPfjS8jyjHG=Ug@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sun, 28 Sep 2014, Mark Rogers wrote:

> On 27 September 2014 19:52, James Freer <jessejazza3.uk(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> In place upgrades is something I've not done as... from what I've read it's
>> not recommended.
>
> I don't see any fundamental reason why an in place upgrade should
> cause any more problems than any apt-get upgrade except that more
> things get upgraded in one go. And I've never had any problems that
> weren't related to the new distro itself (eg that it no longer
> supported my old video hardware), ie they'd have hit me regardless of
> whether I upgraded or went for a fresh install. A quick spin up from a
> LiveCD before the upgrade is a good idea for that reason (although I'm
> normally too lazy to bother). My attitude is that as long as important
> stuff is backed up I should try the in-place upgrade, and if it breaks
> I wipe and do a clean install, which is where I would have started
> anyway otherwise.

Hi Mark

All I was referring to is the volume of problems folk seem to have had on the 
ubuntu mailing list. If you're happy with *buntu fine we don't need to fall 
out. Linux is about choice and I'm no longer using *buntu.

james



--===============2614153150844478918==--


From bjsamuels@beenthere-donethat.org.uk Tue Sep 30 10:11:39 2014
From: Barry Samuels <bjsamuels@beenthere-donethat.org.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] Linux (Debian) boot problem
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 10:11:37 +0100
Message-ID: <1412068297.15121.1@dataman1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7970702382900656064=="

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I want to move my wife's operating system to another computer so that 
should involve a simple 'move the hard drive' operation shouldn't it? 
Wrong!

I've not come across anything like this before. The drive boots happily in 
my wife's computer but if I move it to either of two other computers it 
starts to boot and then stops with various errors.

mount: mounting /dev/root on /root failed: No such file of directory

the same with sys and proc.

Then there is a Busybox line and I end up in a shell prompt: '(initramfs) 
but the line before that says:

/bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off

and nothing appears when I type on the keyboard so I'm stuck.

This is using Squeeze with a standard Debian linux-image package, 
2.6.32-5-686, which includes an initrd image. My wife's current computer 
uses an Athlon XP CPU and the one I'm trying to move to uses a Core 2 Duo 
both of which are covered by the linux-image.

Any ideas would be very welcome.

-- 
Barry Samuels
http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk
The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain


--===============7970702382900656064==--


From adam@thebowery.co.uk Tue Sep 30 10:45:59 2014
From: Adam Bower <adam@thebowery.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] .deb vs .rpm (or apt-get vs yum)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 10:45:52 +0100
Message-ID: <20140930094551.GF12760@electron>
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1409301005130.3229@main>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0714590515385985917=="

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On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:09:10AM +0100, James Freer wrote:
> 
> All I was referring to is the volume of problems folk seem to have
> had on the ubuntu mailing list. If you're happy with *buntu fine we

Sure, but lots of people use Ubuntu, if you take into account how many 
people have successful upgrades who don't post to the mailing list then 
maybe there are many many more of them?

Adam


--===============0714590515385985917==--


From laurie@brownowl.com Tue Sep 30 10:58:09 2014
From: Laurie Brown <laurie@brownowl.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] .deb vs .rpm (or apt-get vs yum)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 10:58:06 +0100
Message-ID: <542A7EAE.4050704@brownowl.com>
In-Reply-To: <20140930094551.GF12760@electron>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7285822487389943204=="

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On 30/09/14 10:45, Adam Bower wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:09:10AM +0100, James Freer wrote:
>>
>> All I was referring to is the volume of problems folk seem to have
>> had on the ubuntu mailing list. If you're happy with *buntu fine we
> 
> Sure, but lots of people use Ubuntu, if you take into account how many 
> people have successful upgrades who don't post to the mailing list then 
> maybe there are many many more of them?

Indeed, and although I use mostly Gentoo on servers, I really like Mint
Cinnamon on the desktop. I recently did some upgrades from 16 to 17-LTS
the "long way", and it was really easy. See:
http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/2

There are also people who have upgraded in situ using apt, see here:
http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/62

Cheers, Laurie.
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
                               Laurie Brown
                           laurie(a)brownowl.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------


--===============7285822487389943204==--


From cl@isbd.net Tue Sep 30 11:03:31 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Linux (Debian) boot problem
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 11:03:26 +0100
Message-ID: <20140930100326.GD19510@chris>
In-Reply-To: <1412068297.15121.1@dataman1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:11:37AM +0100, Barry Samuels wrote:
> I want to move my wife's operating system to another computer so that 
> should involve a simple 'move the hard drive' operation shouldn't it? 
> Wrong!
> 
Very wrong I would have thought, during the installation process
the hardware of your computer is probed and appropriate drivers are
installed and configuration settings made.

Trying to boot exactly the same configuration in different hardware
*might* work if you're lucky (it has done once for me) but it's
certainly not guaranteed.

> 
> Any ideas would be very welcome.
> 
Do a proper installation of the OS you want on "the other computer"
and then move the files you need across from your wife's hard drive. 
At the simplest level just copy across the contents of /home (taking
appropriate action to install the required users).

-- 
Chris Green


--===============3623784968127098704==--


From jessejazza3.uk@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 11:31:58 2014
From: James Freer <jessejazza3.uk@gmail.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] .deb vs .rpm (or apt-get vs yum)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 11:31:54 +0100
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1409301129001.3785@main>
In-Reply-To:
 <CAHSJW-BCu3pJDZNmxhunvFhsssxZ2bfS=gThFLmP3bMMHyFN=w@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0289968619362136981=="

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On Mon, 29 Sep 2014, Ewan Slater wrote:

> On 27 September 2014 19:52, James Freer <jessejazza3.uk(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> "But isn't it great to have a choice!" But the choice isn't so great. Each
>> distro has it's problems. I'd like a slackware based one as the modular
>> system is more stable than deb or rpm. I don't think there's a great
>> difference between the two.
>
> I tried Slackware recently.  It was fun in a retro way for a bit, but
> the lack of package dependency management and the slackbuilds system
> soon got tiresome.  So my geriatric laptop is back to running Debian /
> XFCE.
>
> Ewan

I found Slackware a bit 'retro' as you say. Salix is an alternative and Porte=
us=20
could well develop into the main distro of the slack family.

james


--===============0289968619362136981==--


From ewan.slater@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 11:39:40 2014
From: Ewan Slater <ewan.slater@gmail.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] .deb vs .rpm (or apt-get vs yum)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 11:39:36 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CAHSJW-DTiHv_PhXdKi7W9VJCTaYvoO=jo2FmVFzw9-ir_AxrxA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1409301129001.3785@main>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8228886297441826285=="

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On 30 September 2014 11:31, James Freer <jessejazza3.uk(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I found Slackware a bit 'retro' as you say. Salix is an alternative and
> Porteus could well develop into the main distro of the slack family.

OK - will check them out the next time I feel the need to go walkabout


--===============8228886297441826285==--


From cl@isbd.net Tue Sep 30 11:55:39 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Sort of design/philosphy/way to do it sort of question
 about remotely gathering data and putting in a database
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 11:55:35 +0100
Message-ID: <20140930105535.GA22915@chris>
In-Reply-To: <20140929162246.GB32719@chris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6719866507961285795=="

--===============6719866507961285795==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 05:22:46PM +0100, Chris Green wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 04:54:48PM +0100, Mark Rogers wrote:
> > On 29 September 2014 14:25, Chris Green <cl(a)isbd.net> wrote:
> > > '2014-09-29 15:05', 22.125, 22.75, 13.6285714286, 13.8876923077, 34.368=
75,=20
> > 0.253125, 14.85, 8.803125, 8=20
> >=20
> > Silly question, but since this is just CSV data, why not stick with it
> > but put a header line above it listing the fields?
> >=20
> Not a silly question at all, I could very easily do as you say and
> it seems at first glance to be a good solution.
>=20
> Is there any easy *programmatic* way to do an SQL insert from a CSV
> with headings?
>=20
I've come up with an even simpler and more obvious solution.

The data I'm collecting isn't huge, there's about 700kBytes at the
moment which is from the last couple of years (with gaps).  I can
simply do everything at the remote end on the Beaglebone Black and
rsync the database across at intervals. The BBB is a newer one with a
4Gb emmc, currently it's 44% full so there's a couple of Gb to spare
still, quite a few years' data!

So my programs which gather the data on the BBB will simply write it
directly to a sqlite3 database, all the configuration (like names for
ADC channels) can live in the database.

It will probably be a good idea to have some sort of historical backup
when rsyncing the database across to home so that if it gets scrambled
on the BBB I don't lose all my old data.

--=20
Chris Green


--===============6719866507961285795==--


From tony.anson@girolle.co.uk Tue Sep 30 12:03:39 2014
From: Anthony Anson <tony.anson@girolle.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Linux (Debian) boot problem
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 12:03:34 +0100
Message-ID: <542A8E06.4090207@girolle.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <1412068297.15121.1@dataman1>
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On 30/09/14 10:11, Barry Samuels wrote:

/snip/
> Any ideas would be very welcome.
>
Have you thought of installing/transferring it to a bootable USB memory 
stick?

I had (IIRC) Potato on a HDD in a tray, which went from machine to 
machine in their caddies (3 boxes) - no troubles experienced.

-- 
Tony
http://www.girolle.co.uk/


--===============1123916367454370861==--


From bjsamuels@beenthere-donethat.org.uk Tue Sep 30 12:29:40 2014
From: Barry Samuels <bjsamuels@beenthere-donethat.org.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Linux (Debian) boot problem
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 12:29:39 +0100
Message-ID: <1412076579.3994.0@dataman1>
In-Reply-To: <20140930100326.GD19510@chris>
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On 30/09/14 11:03:26, Chris Green wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:11:37AM +0100, Barry Samuels wrote:
> > I want to move my wife's operating system to another computer so that 
> > should involve a simple 'move the hard drive' operation shouldn't it? 
> > Wrong!
> > 
> Very wrong I would have thought, during the installation process
> the hardware of your computer is probed and appropriate drivers are
> installed and configuration settings made.
> 
> Trying to boot exactly the same configuration in different hardware
> *might* work if you're lucky (it has done once for me) but it's
> certainly not guaranteed.

Remember that this is a Debian kernel image which should include all the 
appropriate drivers and it is the same kernel required by both machines.

> > 
> > Any ideas would be very welcome.
> > 
> Do a proper installation of the OS you want on "the other computer"
> and then move the files you need across from your wife's hard drive. 
> At the simplest level just copy across the contents of /home (taking
> appropriate action to install the required users).
> 
> -- 
> Chris Green

I have that in mind if I can't get around this problem.

-- 
Barry Samuels
http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk
The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain


--===============1586364138561558288==--


From tony.bronze@tiscali.co.uk Tue Sep 30 13:17:38 2014
From: Tony <tony.bronze@tiscali.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Linux (Debian) boot problem
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:07:09 +0100
Message-ID: <542A9CED.5020205@tiscali.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <1412068297.15121.1@dataman1>
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As its not finding root and other files, I would try a grub reinstall 
from a live CD/USB drive.  It worked for me when I done similar but only 
got me to a usable command prompt.  I also had to, delete/purge Nividia 
graphic drivers, reconfigure Xserver and delete/reinstall wireless 
drivers (old PC had a Broadcom card which drivers were manually 
installed for).



On 30/09/14 10:11, Barry Samuels wrote:
> I want to move my wife's operating system to another computer so that
> should involve a simple 'move the hard drive' operation shouldn't it?
> Wrong!
>
> I've not come across anything like this before. The drive boots happily in
> my wife's computer but if I move it to either of two other computers it
> starts to boot and then stops with various errors.
>
> mount: mounting /dev/root on /root failed: No such file of directory
>
> the same with sys and proc.
>
> Then there is a Busybox line and I end up in a shell prompt: '(initramfs)
> but the line before that says:
>
> /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off
>
> and nothing appears when I type on the keyboard so I'm stuck.
>
> This is using Squeeze with a standard Debian linux-image package,
> 2.6.32-5-686, which includes an initrd image. My wife's current computer
> uses an Athlon XP CPU and the one I'm trying to move to uses a Core 2 Duo
> both of which are covered by the linux-image.
>
> Any ideas would be very welcome.
>



--===============8333029386570973007==--


From bjsamuels@beenthere-donethat.org.uk Tue Sep 30 15:16:59 2014
From: Barry Samuels <bjsamuels@beenthere-donethat.org.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Linux (Debian) boot problem
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 15:16:58 +0100
Message-ID: <1412086618.27369.0@dataman1>
In-Reply-To: <542A8E06.4090207@girolle.co.uk>
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On 30/09/14 12:03:34, Anthony Anson wrote:
> On 30/09/14 10:11, Barry Samuels wrote:
> 
> /snip/
> > Any ideas would be very welcome.
> >
> Have you thought of installing/transferring it to a bootable USB memory 
> stick?
> 
> I had (IIRC) Potato on a HDD in a tray, which went from machine to 
> machine in their caddies (3 boxes) - no troubles experienced.
> 
> -- 
> Tony
> http://www.girolle.co.uk/
> 

I hadn't thought of tranferring to a USB stick mainly because the drive in 
question is 250 GB and I haven't yet seen a USB stick that size. :-))

I have just downloaded, and booted from, a Debian Squeeze live DVD iso and 
although I get a menu displayed none of the options works.

Going to a 'boot:' prompt and typing in 'live' produces a message '/live/
vmlinuz' not found. I've checked the DVD and vmlinuz is where it's 
supposed to be. It's strange that on the disc from my wife's computer also 
gives 'whatever not found'.

There is something rather strange about this computer.

-- 
Barry Samuels
http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk
The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain


--===============3898444511018650027==--


From tony.bronze@tiscali.co.uk Tue Sep 30 15:42:24 2014
From: Tony <tony.bronze@tiscali.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Linux (Debian) boot problem
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 15:42:01 +0100
Message-ID: <542AC139.7000802@tiscali.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <1412086618.27369.0@dataman1>
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Does the new PC have UEFI as this sounds like a typical sympton of the 
new PC using it where the old one didn't.  If so can you change it to 
legacy BIOS mode in the BIOS?

On 30/09/14 15:16, Barry Samuels wrote
> I hadn't thought of tranferring to a USB stick mainly because the drive in
> question is 250 GB and I haven't yet seen a USB stick that size. :-))
>
> I have just downloaded, and booted from, a Debian Squeeze live DVD iso and
> although I get a menu displayed none of the options works.
>
> Going to a 'boot:' prompt and typing in 'live' produces a message '/live/
> vmlinuz' not found. I've checked the DVD and vmlinuz is where it's
> supposed to be. It's strange that on the disc from my wife's computer also
> gives 'whatever not found'.
>
> There is something rather strange about this computer.
>



--===============5349305148974410034==--


From adam@thebowery.co.uk Tue Sep 30 16:30:43 2014
From: Adam Bower <adam@thebowery.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Linux (Debian) boot problem
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 16:30:35 +0100
Message-ID: <20140930153035.GG12760@electron>
In-Reply-To: <1412068297.15121.1@dataman1>
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On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:11:37AM +0100, Barry Samuels wrote:
> 
> I've not come across anything like this before. The drive boots happily in 
> my wife's computer but if I move it to either of two other computers it 
> starts to boot and then stops with various errors.

One thing, what's the disk configuration in all the machines? Does this
install use hardcoded mount points using device name in /etc/fstab that
gets messed up on different machines as they have different drives in
them?

Adam


--===============2534063816654450588==--


From iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk Tue Sep 30 17:30:41 2014
From: Brett Parker <iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Linux (Debian) boot problem
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:30:40 +0100
Message-ID: <20140930163040.GA906@miranda>
In-Reply-To: <1412068297.15121.1@dataman1>
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On 30 Sep 10:11, Barry Samuels wrote:
> I want to move my wife's operating system to another computer so that 
> should involve a simple 'move the hard drive' operation shouldn't it? 
> Wrong!
> 
> I've not come across anything like this before. The drive boots happily in 
> my wife's computer but if I move it to either of two other computers it 
> starts to boot and then stops with various errors.
> 
> mount: mounting /dev/root on /root failed: No such file of directory
> 
> the same with sys and proc.
> 
> Then there is a Busybox line and I end up in a shell prompt: '(initramfs) 
> but the line before that says:
> 
> /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off
> 
> and nothing appears when I type on the keyboard so I'm stuck.
> 
> This is using Squeeze with a standard Debian linux-image package, 
> 2.6.32-5-686, which includes an initrd image. My wife's current computer 
> uses an Athlon XP CPU and the one I'm trying to move to uses a Core 2 Duo 
> both of which are covered by the linux-image.

Crikey, that's OOOOOLD. You'll probably find that the hard drive
controller has changed and that the initramfs needs to be rebuilt for
the other machines with the right modules...

Or, cheat and set the initramfs settings to use "most" modules and
rebuild the initramfs.

Thanks,
-- 
Brett Parker


--===============8838310296184323380==--


From cl@isbd.net Tue Sep 30 18:18:57 2014
From: Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] Command line database editor (for sqlite3)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 18:18:54 +0100
Message-ID: <20140930171854.GA29601@chris>
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Is there such a thing?

Of course I know and use the sqlite3 command line utility but that's
just a way of running SQL from the command line.  What I want is some
sort of wrapper/utility that reads the data from the database,
presents it to me in some sort of reasonably editable format and then,
when I've changed something writes it back.

I'd be happy enough with a simple browse facility plus some sort of
way of changing individual fields. So "dbedit xyz.db table1" just
presents me with the data in some sort of reasonable, scrollable
column layout.  Then some sort of command says "change column 10, row
4 to 'ABCDE'".

-- 
Chris Green


--===============7926316011188659841==--


From bjsamuels@beenthere-donethat.org.uk Tue Sep 30 19:46:26 2014
From: Barry Samuels <bjsamuels@beenthere-donethat.org.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Linux (Debian) boot problem
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 19:46:24 +0100
Message-ID: <1412102784.32435.1@dataman1>
In-Reply-To: <20140930153035.GG12760@electron>
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On 30/09/14 16:30:35, Adam Bower wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:11:37AM +0100, Barry Samuels wrote:
> > 
> > I've not come across anything like this before. The drive boots 
> > happily in my wife's computer but if I move it to either of two other 
> > computers it starts to boot and then stops with various errors.
> 
> One thing, what's the disk configuration in all the machines? Does this
> install use hardcoded mount points using device name in /etc/fstab that
> gets messed up on different machines as they have different drives in
> them?
> 
> Adam

 They are hard coded in fstab but each of these PCs has only one drive in 
them at a time (sda).

-- 
Barry Samuels
http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk
The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain


--===============9201286850085760259==--


From bjsamuels@beenthere-donethat.org.uk Tue Sep 30 19:53:58 2014
From: Barry Samuels <bjsamuels@beenthere-donethat.org.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Linux (Debian) boot problem
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 19:53:56 +0100
Message-ID: <1412103236.32435.2@dataman1>
In-Reply-To: <20140930163040.GA906@miranda>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 30/09/14 17:30:40, Brett Parker wrote:
> On 30 Sep 10:11, Barry Samuels wrote:
> > I want to move my wife's operating system to another computer so that 
> > should involve a simple 'move the hard drive' operation shouldn't it? 
> > Wrong!
> > 
> > I've not come across anything like this before. The drive boots 
> > happily in my wife's computer but if I move it to either of two other 
> > computers it starts to boot and then stops with various errors.
> > 
> > mount: mounting /dev/root on /root failed: No such file of directory
> > 
> > the same with sys and proc.
> > 
> > Then there is a Busybox line and I end up in a shell prompt:
> > '(initramfs)' but the line before that says:
> > 
> > /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off
> > 
> > and nothing appears when I type on the keyboard so I'm stuck.
> > 
> > This is using Squeeze with a standard Debian linux-image package, 
> > 2.6.32-5-686, which includes an initrd image. My wife's current
> > computer uses an Athlon XP CPU and the one I'm trying to move to uses 
> > a Core 2 Duo both of which are covered by the linux-image.
> 
> Crikey, that's OOOOOLD. You'll probably find that the hard drive
> controller has changed and that the initramfs needs to be rebuilt for
> the other machines with the right modules...
> 
> Or, cheat and set the initramfs settings to use "most" modules and
> rebuild the initramfs.
> 
> Thanks,
> -- 
> Brett Parker

The initramfs comes ready made with the kernel image.

It gets even stranger. I have just found another small hard drive which 
has the same version of Debian on it and the same kernel so I tried that. 
It booted perfectly happily.

It would appear that there may be something amiss with the kernel image, 
or something else, on my wife's machine although that doesn't explain why 
it boots on her PC without problems.

-- 
Barry Samuels
http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk
The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain


--===============0772334269383442403==--


From barry@beenthere-donethat.org.uk Tue Sep 30 20:15:46 2014
From: Barry Samuels <barry@beenthere-donethat.org.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Linux (Debian) boot problem
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 19:44:24 +0100
Message-ID: <1412102664.32435.0@dataman1>
In-Reply-To: <542AC139.7000802@tiscali.co.uk>
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On 30/09/14 15:42:01, Tony wrote:
> 
> Does the new PC have UEFI as this sounds like a typical sympton of the 
> new PC using it where the old one didn't.  If so can you change it to 
> legacy BIOS mode in the BIOS?
> 
> On 30/09/14 15:16, Barry Samuels wrote
> > I hadn't thought of tranferring to a USB stick mainly because the 
> > drive in question is 250 GB and I haven't yet seen a USB stick that 
> > size. :-))
> >
> > I have just downloaded, and booted from, a Debian Squeeze live DVD iso
> > and although I get a menu displayed none of the options works.
> >
> > Going to a 'boot:' prompt and typing in 'live' produces a message
> > '/live/vmlinuz' not found. I've checked the DVD and vmlinuz is 
> > where it's supposed to be. It's strange that on the disc from my 
> > wife's computer also gives 'whatever not found'.
> >
> > There is something rather strange about this computer.
> >

The new PC isn't 'new' it's just not so old as my wife's PC and no it 
doesn't have UEFI. The BIOS is already set yo 'Legacy'.

-- 
Barry Samuels
http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk
The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain


--===============8598045097394665510==--


From lumos@gmx.co.uk Tue Sep 30 21:25:52 2014
From: Bev Nicolson <lumos@gmx.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: [ALUG] OT Domain name hosts
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 21:25:48 +0100
Message-ID: <542B11CC.6090604@gmx.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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A bit off topic perhaps but I thought I'd ask you lot. Domain name 
hosting. Ted might be puzzled by this since I recommended 1&1 a while 
ago now. They haven't been a bother but it looks like I should think 
about transferring things for various reasons. Who out there is cheap 
and reliable? How do you find out exactly how much any one package will 
cost per year? I'm just talking about a domain name and related email 
address.

Bev.


--===============7278350386909122783==--


From hopkins.jenny@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 21:31:02 2014
From: Jenny Hopkins <hopkins.jenny@gmail.com>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] OT Domain name hosts
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 21:30:41 +0100
Message-ID:
 <CALZB=vZ=C0N=SW55SoOZ38aLJ100s3FuMmhWf6TrLd13=QLqJw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <542B11CC.6090604@gmx.co.uk>
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On 30 September 2014 21:25, Bev Nicolson <lumos(a)gmx.co.uk> wrote:
> A bit off topic perhaps but I thought I'd ask you lot. Domain name hosting.
> Ted might be puzzled by this since I recommended 1&1 a while ago now. They
> haven't been a bother but it looks like I should think about transferring
> things for various reasons. Who out there is cheap and reliable? How do you
> find out exactly how much any one package will cost per year? I'm just
> talking about a domain name and related email address.
>

Try https://www.mythic-beasts.com/domains - works for me.

Jen


--===============1764475215260706056==--


From tony.bronze@tiscali.co.uk Tue Sep 30 21:43:50 2014
From: Tony <tony.bronze@tiscali.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] OT Domain name hosts
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 21:43:34 +0100
Message-ID: <542B15F6.60400@tiscali.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <542B11CC.6090604@gmx.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I use 123-reg  https://www.123-reg.co.uk.  Used them for years with no 
problem.  Prices are on their site.


On 30/09/14 21:25, Bev Nicolson wrote:
> A bit off topic perhaps but I thought I'd ask you lot. Domain name 
> hosting. Ted might be puzzled by this since I recommended 1&1 a while 
> ago now. They haven't been a bother but it looks like I should think 
> about transferring things for various reasons. Who out there is cheap 
> and reliable? How do you find out exactly how much any one package 
> will cost per year? I'm just talking about a domain name and related 
> email address.
>
> Bev.
>
> _______________________________________________
> main(a)lists.alug.org.uk
> http://www.alug.org.uk/
> http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main
> Unsubscribe?  See message headers or the web site above!



--===============5708306915457918861==--


From ben@whyall-systems.co.uk Tue Sep 30 22:03:19 2014
From: Ben Whyall <ben@whyall-systems.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] OT Domain name hosts
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 21:39:26 +0100
Message-ID: <avjp3v298iuv5j71fa4bl4g1.1412109566602@com.syntomo.email>
In-Reply-To: <542B11CC.6090604@gmx.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I run a small hosting business that can offer this sort of service.  Http://w=
ww.awke.co.uk

Ben

Sent by Mailwise =E2=80=93 Your emails, with style.:)
   =20

-------- Original Message --------
From: Bev Nicolson <lumos(a)gmx.co.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 09:25 pm
To: ALUG <main(a)lists.alug.org.uk>
Subject: [ALUG] OT Domain name hosts

>A bit off topic perhaps but I thought I'd ask you lot. Domain name=20
>hosting. Ted might be puzzled by this since I recommended 1&1 a while=20
>ago now. They haven't been a bother but it looks like I should think=20
>about transferring things for various reasons. Who out there is cheap=20
>and reliable? How do you find out exactly how much any one package will=20
>cost per year? I'm just talking about a domain name and related email=20
>address.
>
>Bev.
>
>_______________________________________________
>main(a)lists.alug.org.uk
>http://www.alug.org.uk/
>http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main
>Unsubscribe?  See message headers or the web site above!



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From noodles@earth.li Tue Sep 30 22:10:45 2014
From: Jonathan McDowell <noodles@earth.li>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] OT Domain name hosts
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 22:10:45 +0100
Message-ID: <20140930211045.GX14672@earth.li>
In-Reply-To:
 <CALZB=vZ=C0N=SW55SoOZ38aLJ100s3FuMmhWf6TrLd13=QLqJw@mail.gmail.com>
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On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 09:30:41PM +0100, Jenny Hopkins wrote:
> On 30 September 2014 21:25, Bev Nicolson <lumos(a)gmx.co.uk> wrote:
> > A bit off topic perhaps but I thought I'd ask you lot. Domain name hostin=
g.
> > Ted might be puzzled by this since I recommended 1&1 a while ago now. They
> > haven't been a bother but it looks like I should think about transferring
> > things for various reasons. Who out there is cheap and reliable? How do y=
ou
> > find out exactly how much any one package will cost per year? I'm just
> > talking about a domain name and related email address.
> >
> Try https://www.mythic-beasts.com/domains - works for me.

My domains are also with Mythic.

(Also Brett Parker of this parish works for them. Which you could
consider a point in favour or a point against; I consider it a point in
favour.)

J.

--=20
Web [   If I want to hear the pitter patter of little feet, I'll   ]
site: http:// [          put shoes on my cats.           ]       Made by
www.earth.li/~noodles/  [                      ]         HuggieTag 0.0.24


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From iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk Tue Sep 30 23:06:08 2014
From: Brett Parker <iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] Linux (Debian) boot problem
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 23:06:07 +0100
Message-ID: <20140930220607.GB906@miranda>
In-Reply-To: <1412103236.32435.2@dataman1>
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On 30 Sep 19:53, Barry Samuels wrote:
> The initramfs comes ready made with the kernel image.

No, no it doesn't. See the command line "update-initramfs".

Also see the files /etc/initramfs-tools, specifically initramfs.conf.

> It gets even stranger. I have just found another small hard drive which 
> has the same version of Debian on it and the same kernel so I tried that. 
> It booted perfectly happily.

Probably a better initramfs on it.

> It would appear that there may be something amiss with the kernel image, 
> or something else, on my wife's machine although that doesn't explain why 
> it boots on her PC without problems.

Someone customised the initramfs on it, maybe, and removed "errorneous"
modules.

Kernel packages *do not* ship with prebuilt initramfs files, they're
built as part of a hook, and have been for a while.

Thanks,
-- 
Brett Parker


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From iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk Tue Sep 30 23:15:08 2014
From: Brett Parker <iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk>
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Subject: Re: [ALUG] OT Domain name hosts
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 23:15:06 +0100
Message-ID: <20140930221506.GC906@miranda>
In-Reply-To: <20140930211045.GX14672@earth.li>
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On 30 Sep 22:10, Jonathan McDowell wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 09:30:41PM +0100, Jenny Hopkins wrote:
> > On 30 September 2014 21:25, Bev Nicolson <lumos(a)gmx.co.uk> wrote:
> > > A bit off topic perhaps but I thought I'd ask you lot. Domain name host=
ing.
> > > Ted might be puzzled by this since I recommended 1&1 a while ago now. T=
hey
> > > haven't been a bother but it looks like I should think about transferri=
ng
> > > things for various reasons. Who out there is cheap and reliable? How do=
 you
> > > find out exactly how much any one package will cost per year? I'm just
> > > talking about a domain name and related email address.
> > >
> > Try https://www.mythic-beasts.com/domains - works for me.
>=20
> My domains are also with Mythic.

Mine too! (and as a responsible employee of the company, I even pay them
full price for them :) )

> (Also Brett Parker of this parish works for them. Which you could
> consider a point in favour or a point against; I consider it a point in
> favour.)

Awww - thanks :)

--=20
Brett Parker


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