On 12 Oct 21:17, Srdjan Todorovic wrote:
Hi All,
On 12 October 2010 20:49, mick mbm@rlogin.net wrote:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 09:58:57 +0100 Ian Thompson-Bell ianbell@ukfsn.org allegedly wrote:
Why don't We change to reflect what the rest of the world is doing instead of sticking out head in the sand.
If we did that, then we would all be using proprietary "standards" such as microsoft's document format. Fortunately, some people choose to do otherwise.
- What has Microsoft got to do with the email list etiquette on this list?
It's all their fault! The graphical mail clients have been copying the evil that is outlook for far too long. Outlook doesn't even do threading, let alone deal with any non-MS headers, everyones obviously used to Outlook... ergo - blah blah blah.
(Basically, I haven't a clue what MS have to do with anything, and I'll never understand how they manage to make money from selling an OS that makes anyone that actually needs to do any systems management want to swear in long continuous streams...)
- Why all this infatuation with Microsoft? I thought we (the
collective open source community) were better than that.
I have no idea, I never brought them up. If I was going to bring up a current pet hate closed source company of over-priced evil I'd probably be talking about a company that's headed by the same guy that headed PIXAR until he sold out and got Disney shares and PIXAR become part of the Evil Empire that is Disney.
- There are lists that follow different conventions - there is no
One-Size-Must-Fit-All. Surely that's the beauty of open systems, open source, and the Internet in general? We can pick and choose and not get bogged down in silly flamewars.
We can.
- Can't we just accept that the etiquette on *this* list is to reply
to the list, and skip out all other recipients? (is there a FAQ? shall I start one on the wiki?)
The etiquette basically follows the same rules as the debian list etiquette, hence mentioning that comparison previously.
- Why do we even care what other lists such as Debian use? This is
out of scope for this list. The Debian etiquette is irrelevant here (with all due respect to Debian, their list and all the ALUG members that are/may be involved with Debian).
I'd bundle this list and the debian lists in to the "technical" bracket. The comparison is purely that.
- Brett's email, while understandably seeming a little enraged, only
inadvertently functions to fuel the debate. "Because the rest of the world is *NOT* doing what you are saying." There is possibly no definitive proof of this and also it brings in my point number 5, above.
- What other lists do is irrelevant. What Brett thinks is the best
way to do this, is irrelevant. What only matters is that everyone follows the ALUG mailing list etiquette.
There are always, and will always, be more than one way to skin a cat (I prefer a sharp flint and a lot of time, obviously...). Changing what has been in place for many years, and is the most sane standards compliant method of using a list to something that overrides users/posters preferences is, erm, not right.
If the ALUG mailing list etiquette happens to be exactly what Brett says, then so be it - but at least then we can say that this is the ALUG way, and leave out the inflamed personal emails.
Mailing list software messing with user defined headers is never going to be good. That's one of my biggest underlying reasons for completely agreeing with the current (and historical) set up of this list.
Anyone can add a Reply-To header. If you want replys to a post to go to the list, you can always set that header, anyone hitting reply will pick up that value.
I feel a bit sorry for Ian - it would have been better for people to have responded with the ALUG mailing list rules as a matter of fact. A simple "This is the way ALUG operates. These decisions were taken by experienced members and we see no reason to change it. If you feel we should change it, give us your very carefully reasoned point of view and try to convince us that your idea is superior." would have worked better.
It was stated, in the first response from MJR that this had been discussed many times... he could have done some research and looked in the archives... But if you on list manage to call the list a bunch of luddites, then, frankly, you're going to deserve everything you get.
I do want to point out though, that I do completely agree with Brett's reply regarding luddites. This is one thing we are not.
I wouldn't admit to agreeing me on anything if I were you, it won't do you any good ;)