New subject: [Alug] Freedom

17 Apr 2001


      Attempting to respond to all-in-one here so bare with me....
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Toby Jaffeytoby@earth.li wrote
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I'm sick of being held to ransom by the big corporates. But its no
suprise.
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Democracy is a misnomer. Little people don't get heard while the big
corporates have more lobbyists than there are MPs MEPs etc to  lobby.
What would you suggest instead?
Vote anarchy?
Rule by benevolent dictator?
Hi Toby,
Dunno about 'voting' anarchy, by definition there would be nobody to vote 
for or any voting system...?
However I take your point.
Currently what we have is not Democracy (Rulership by the Demos) but a form 
of autocracy in which we (the Demos) get to vote for a new/continued 
autocrat every few years.
Democracy is supposed to be about the 'will of the people' whatever that 
is...
What I personally would like to see is an end to corporate lobbyism. Since 
a corporation is not by definition or otherwise a member of the Demos it 
should thus have no say in a democracy.
Now I know all the chestnuts for this line but the bottom line is that we 
the demos are not represented as extensively as corps. This is 
un-democratic.
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Toby Jaffeytoby@earth.li wrote
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Mostly however I will attempt to stay within the land of the 'free', a
growing world. So when someone comes along with a proprietary
restricive
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DVD software for Linux I'll say "No Thanks".
Ok, but most people will gladly accept it. I've done a lot of support
and bits of random code for the Xine project (a GPL'd mpeg2/dvd player
for linux). People just want something that works, lots of people have
said that they'd willingly buy LinDVD if/when it ever happens, just to
have something that works properly.
In my experience "the masses" want things that work and are willing to
pay for them and are more than willing to give up freedoms to get them.
Unless they realise (through education etc) that they are giving up 
freedoms, and the implications for those freedoms and their other life 
choices by giving up those freedoms, and have a choice to take options that 
work without compromising those freedoms. This is what 'Free Software' etc 
is about, as we all know. Freedom to do what you like without the ability 
to restrict those freedoms for others.
It is a bit of a concept shift that is difficult to grasp at first, 
especially when being FUD-ed (what odds on a 'DecCSS can break your DVDs' 
story in the future?).
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David Freeman david_freeman@rocketmail.com wrote
So niave, you mean to say you thought we actually got a say in hwat
happens. The only way that happens is by donating lots of money to th
goverment, witness Burny Ecelstone(sp?)
Hi again David
No, never once beleived we get a say, that is my point. Doesn't matter who 
I donate a vote to it doesn't give me any input into the process of 
decision making.
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David you ask what we can do.
The only thing one can do is to stick to open, non-copyrighted stuff
as far
as practical.
David Freeman david_freeman@rocketmail.com wrote
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Yes I agree, But I am but a drop in th ocean. No one will listen to me.
My blank refusal to by a DVD player until region encoding is removed
has lost the DVD companies practically nothing.
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Boycott those which seek to restrict your choices as both a citizen
and a
consumer.
Thats fine in theory, but I am only one, and with those on the list, we
make up less than one percent of 1 percent of the voting population.
True, which is why we need to pull together on it. To me there will be two 
kinds of people who take a stand on this sort of thing. Those who boycott 
altogether and those who will continue to crack, use DecCSS or whatever to 
protect their right to proper use. Either way if enough people do it then 
it will have an effect. There are myriads of options for making it 
downright difficult to enforce this sort of thing.
Eg. I have been involved in the past in counter-cult work, where a large  
 religious cult (talk about multi-national corps, this one is the largest 
real-estate developer and the largest publisher in the world... and it's a 
charity!!!) was trying to shut down web sites which were critical of it. 
This org is not short of a few bob.
They soon gave up because chasing down the ever-moving domains/mirrors, 
contacting ISPs, beginning legal action, discovering they had moved again 
etc, became impossible. Of course with the reduction in 'free' ISPs 
worldwide such a method might not be so easy in future. But you see my 
point? Frustrating efforts, spoiling tactics, that sort of thing.
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David Freeman david_freeman@rocketmail.com wrote
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RIP bill is a classic example of this.
Indeed!
I have a friend who works at GCHQ. Its funny talking to him about work 
because he's not allowed to tell you anything about what he does....
So the other day he says he's really busy bcuz he's got tons to do for some 
new thing being introduced... trying to be vague or what!.
Nearly fell off his chair when I said "Yeah I bet that RIP act has got your 
lot busy as hell!".
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This is great in theory, but for most things the market is several
millions of people and we are just a handful.
For now yes, dissenters in this area are just a handful, but as the number 
of 'free' software users increases, and exposure to this way of thinking 
also increases, so will the number of dissenters. Especially if we don't 
all shrug our shoulders and let this matter go away, but keep it 'on the 
agenda' as it were so that newcomers can also pick up on it.
David Freeman david_freeman@rocketmail.com wrote
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Quite true, we need to get the ball to start rolling, this is one of
the reason I have been pushing NLD.
The ball is already rolling, we just need to keep it that way.
Sorry, probably being a thick but what's NLD?
cheers all.
admin : please don't curtail this one yet.
Earl