Re: [ALUG] Criticising other groups
So, has the author come out of the shadows yet? Even if only to admit it in private? Presumably we have access logs that can show information about who was accessing the site at the time(s) it was edited? Clearly it won't give names but ISP, site referral etc, would be interesting to know. IIUIC, anyone can add/edit the ALUG wiki pages, including people who are not ALUG members - is this correct? If so, I suggest that we review this whole policy. At the very least I would suggest a policy whereby anonymous pages are removed. Syd
On 2004-01-13 05:37:21 +0000 Syd Hancock <syd@toufol.com> wrote:
Presumably we have access logs that can show information about who was accessing the site at the time(s) it was edited? Clearly it won't give names but ISP, site referral etc, would be interesting to know.
cpc1-norw1-3-0-cust121.pete.cable.ntl.com did the edit, according to the RecentChanges page of that day. Referrer was in site and following the trail back gives "-" as the external referrer, which often means the address was typed in. The User-Agent is unusual: "Mozilla/1.10 [en] (Compatible; RISC OS 4.02; Oregano 1.10)"
IIUIC, anyone can add/edit the ALUG wiki pages, including people who are not ALUG members - is this correct? If so, I suggest that we review this whole policy. At the very least I would suggest a policy whereby anonymous pages are removed.
This machine has made other edits which have not been offensive in any way. I'm reluctant to prevent useful contributions, but I would prefer it if people put their names to pages and edits. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef@jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/
On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 10:21:11AM +0000, MJ Ray wrote:
On 2004-01-13 05:37:21 +0000 Syd Hancock <syd@toufol.com> wrote:
Presumably we have access logs that can show information about who was accessing the site at the time(s) it was edited? Clearly it won't give names but ISP, site referral etc, would be interesting to know.
cpc1-norw1-3-0-cust121.pete.cable.ntl.com did the edit, according to the RecentChanges page of that day. Referrer was in site and following the trail back gives "-" as the external referrer, which often means the address was typed in. The User-Agent is unusual: "Mozilla/1.10 [en] (Compatible; RISC OS 4.02; Oregano 1.10)"
Well through the magic of google groups I bring you http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_umsgid=3e06... Try viewing the article in its original format... Notice the line X-Trace: newsfep2-gui.server.ntli.net 1073580342 81.100.208.121 (Thu, 08 Jan 2004 16:45:42 GMT) This gives a clue to where the article was originally posted from (the ip address 81.100.208.121).
In message <20040113111037.GT16507@thebowery.co.uk> adam@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
Notice the line X-Trace: newsfep2-gui.server.ntli.net 1073580342 81.100.208.121 (Thu, 08 Jan 2004 16:45:42 GMT) This gives a clue to where the article was originally posted from (the ip address 81.100.208.121). Why not use the NNTP Posting field?
From my box here
adam@bagpuss:~$ host 81.100.208.121 121.208.100.81.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer cpc1-norw1-3-0-cust121.pete.cable.ntl.com.
I am hoping that Tarquin can possibly tell us who the original author of that page is. I only added bits about RUNG etc, as to the original author he seems to have put his details up there. I will add a bit for the Iceni Computer Club unless someelse prefers.
-- Tarquin Mills RUNG (RISC OS Users, Norfolk Group) http://speccyverse.homedns.org/rung/ (running on RISC OS) New domain name coming soon http://***.***********.**.**/
On 2004-01-13 12:00:37 +0000 Tarquin Mills <speccyverse@ntlworld.com> wrote:
I only added bits about RUNG etc, as to the original author he seems to have put his details up there. I will add a bit for the Iceni Computer Club unless someelse prefers.
That is odd. That mentioned address was the first to edit the page (= create it) and it seems that http://cpc1-norw1-3-0-cust121.pete.cable.ntl.com/ is a web site of yours. Do you run an open proxy, or do NTL bounce people around addresses? I'm not happy having a document that fails to apply the FDL correctly on the site and I think it's a bit dodgy to change the licence without asking after others have contributed to it. Even so, I don't want a document that claims to be FDL'd on the site because it apparently prevents me taking backup copies using openssh. For a list of concerns about the FDL, please see http://people.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/Position_Statement.xhtml Please use a free software licence, or host it elsewhere. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef@jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/
In message <89c5b967bbd71716500f1240a3a2a0df@bouncing.localnet> MJ Ray wrote:
On 2004-01-13 12:00:37 +0000 Tarquin Mills wrote:
I only added bits about RUNG etc, as to the original author he seems to have put his details up there. I will add a bit for the Iceni Computer Club unless someelse prefers.
That is odd. That mentioned address was the first to edit the page (= create it) and it seems that http://cpc1-norw1-3-0-cust121.pete.cable.ntl.com/ is a web site of yours. Do you run an open proxy, or do NTL bounce people around addresses? I am running Navaho 2.10 Proxy software
I think it's a bit dodgy to change the licence without asking after others have contributed to it. Even so, I don't want a document that claims to be FDL'd on the site because it apparently prevents me taking backup copies using openssh. For a list of concerns about the FDL, please see http://people.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/Position_Statement.xhtml I read some of this long page and cannot find any problems with using openssh. The only problems are with DRM (which I cannot imagine ALUG using in a million years), invariant sections (there are non of these in webpage), and need for a machine readable form (HTML is machine readable and a simple link to original can be provided).
Please use a free software licence Which? Why not use a different free document license (like the OPL), in fact while on the subject why not make the whole website follow a free license. Or does the ALUG site follow the GPL in which case Stuart should remove the FDL.
-- Tarquin Mills RUNG (RISC OS Users, Norfolk Group) http://speccyverse.homedns.org/rung/ (running on RISC OS) New domain name coming soon http://***.***********.**.**/
On 2004-01-13 13:02:01 +0000 Tarquin Mills <speccyverse@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Do you run an open proxy, or do NTL bounce people around addresses? I am running Navaho 2.10 Proxy software
Is it configured to only let you out?
http://people.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/Position_Statement.xhtml I read some of this long page and cannot find any problems with using openssh. The only problems are with DRM (which I cannot imagine ALUG using in a million years),
From near the top of that page, under the subhead 'The "DRM" Restriction': "As written, it would outlaw actions like changing the permission of a copy of the document on your machine, storing it on an encrypted file system, distributing a copy over an encrypted link (Obstruct or control the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ reading is not clarified to apply merely to the recipient), or even storing it on a file-sharing system with non-world-readable permissions."
invariant sections (there are non of these in webpage),
Anyone could add one, couldn't they? "Comparison of Local User Groups in East Anglia" now with obligatory "Ode to my goldfish and how it inspired me to work on this"?
Please use a free software licence Which? Why not use a different free document license (like the OPL), in fact while on the subject why not make the whole website follow a free license.
Whichever. So-called free document licences are often troublesome and annoying for documents held electronically (that is, "as software"). Yes, this needs tidying up for the site in general. I'll happily discuss it with anyone interested at tomorrow's K.Lynn meeting, or the Norwich meeting a week Sunday if I get there. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef@jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/
On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 12:00:37PM +0000, Tarquin Mills wrote:
In message <20040113111037.GT16507@thebowery.co.uk>
I am hoping that Tarquin can possibly tell us who the original author of that page is. I only added bits about RUNG etc, as to the original author he seems to have put his details up there. I will add a bit for the Iceni Computer Club unless someelse prefers.
Tarquin, With all due respect do not tell lies like this on a public mailing list. I added RUNG myself last night while tidying up the format of the page and adding links to the other local groups websites etc. Adam -- jabberid = quinophex@jabber.earth.li AFFS || http://www.affs.org.uk/ || Not a filesystem
In message <20040113124032.GW16507@thebowery.co.uk> adam@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 12:00:37PM +0000, Tarquin Mills wrote:
In message <20040113111037.GT16507@thebowery.co.uk>
I am hoping that Tarquin can possibly tell us who the original author of that page is. I only added bits about RUNG etc, as to the original author he seems to have put his details up there. I will add a bit for the Iceni Computer Club unless someelse prefers.
Tarquin, With all due respect do not tell lies like this on a public mailing list. I added RUNG myself last night while tidying up the format of the page and adding links to the other local groups websites etc. Dear Adam I was not referring to the original addition of RUNG, which like mine was not signed, but my improvements to like saying that RUNG has Internet access. Does ALUG cover all of East Anglia?
Regards -- Tarquin Mills RUNG (RISC OS Users, Norfolk Group) http://speccyverse.homedns.org/rung/ (running on RISC OS) New domain name coming soon http://***.***********.**.**/
On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 01:25:19PM +0000, Tarquin Mills wrote:
In message <20040113124032.GW16507@thebowery.co.uk> adam@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 12:00:37PM +0000, Tarquin Mills wrote:
In message <20040113111037.GT16507@thebowery.co.uk>
I am hoping that Tarquin can possibly tell us who the original author of that page is. I only added bits about RUNG etc, as to the original author he seems to have put his details up there. I will add a bit for the Iceni Computer Club unless someelse prefers.
Tarquin, With all due respect do not tell lies like this on a public mailing list. I added RUNG myself last night while tidying up the format of the page and adding links to the other local groups websites etc. Dear Adam I was not referring to the original addition of RUNG, which like mine was not signed, but my improvements to like saying that RUNG has Internet access. Does ALUG cover all of East Anglia?
Tarquin, Are you also claiming that you are not the original author? If not then it looks as though the author of that page has been using your computer system without your consent. In which case I can't tell if I am actually engaging in a conversation with you. If you are certain that the security of your system is fine then why are you having trouble admitting that you originally created what was a rather distasteful page? Oh, and I now note that this page http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?StuartParker has been created from your IP address on January 13th see http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?info=StuartParker for the information on the "author" which matches very nicely to the IP address used to post this message that I am replying to. This person claims to be the original author of http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?ComparisonInEastAnglia All, It appears to me that Tarquin has made a very bad attempt to create a page which doesn't say very nice things about other user groups in East Anglia and has tried to hide behind a thin veil of obscurity. If anyone can provide me with overwhelming evidence that this is not the case then I would very much like to hear it. Adam -- jabberid = quinophex@jabber.earth.li AFFS || http://www.affs.org.uk/ || Not a filesystem
Please ... !!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 167 1972 Date: 13-Jan-04 Time: 13:35:45 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------
On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 12:00:37PM +0000, Tarquin Mills wrote:
In message <20040113111037.GT16507@thebowery.co.uk> adam@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
Notice the line X-Trace: newsfep2-gui.server.ntli.net 1073580342 81.100.208.121 (Thu, 08 Jan 2004 16:45:42 GMT) This gives a clue to where the article was originally posted from (the ip address 81.100.208.121). Why not use the NNTP Posting field?
Because that field could be faked, the X-Trace is more likely to have been added by a system under the control of NTL (although wether I trust them to get it right I don't know ;)) but again it could be faked, just I trust the X-Trace line more. Adam -- jabberid = quinophex@jabber.earth.li AFFS || http://www.affs.org.uk/ || Not a filesystem
participants (5)
-
adam＠thebowery.co.uk -
MJ Ray -
Syd Hancock -
Tarquin Mills -
Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk