Greetings Penguin Worshippers,
Just signed up for your group since I've decided to have another go at getting into linux. I failed a couple of years back after giving up on getting my network card working w/ Red Hat 7.1. I even had 2 linux gurus come in and try and get it working with no success.
I am a student placement working as an OSS Engineer at BTexact in Ipswich, Suffolk. I've always been a big programmer/hacker/code monkey and wisked away many an hour making some useless application or another. I'm getting fed up with doing windows programming and wanting to try something different... And so my long journey towards a new faith, "linux", begins. Under the true gods... a Penguin and a Goat.
So, to start off. What distros are used by most of you, since I don't wanna start using a distro I can't get help for. Plus, I don't know which Distro would be best suited for a homeuser/developer/gamer.
The only two distros I've really had a look at are Debian and Red Hat. One, because a mate of mine used it, and the other simply because I hear the name Red Hat all the time (Never knew if thats a good thing or a bad thing...)
Anywayz, I'll leave you to digest,
Ben aka DragonWolf
B.E.D.Ellis-00@student.lboro.ac.uk B.E.D.Ellis-00@student.lboro.ac.uk wrote:
Penguin and a Goat.
Be that a wildebeest, not a goat?
So, to start off. What distros are used by most of you, since I don't wannastart using a distro I can't get help for. Plus, I don't know which Distro would be best suited for a homeuser/developer/gamer.
There's a cache of debian users here, so does that suggest plain Debian? Debian-with-PGI? Knoppix? DeMuDi? Not sure. I guess I'm out of touch and should do my "install them all from a big box of CDs" trick again, but I need more PCs for that experiment. A lot of what distribution you should use depends on what you want to get out of the experience, too.
So, to start off. What distros are used by most of you, since I don't wanna start using a distro I can't get help for. Plus, I don't know which Distro would be best suited for a homeuser/developer/gamer.
Im running Gentoo. this is a good one if you're already into linux, or want to know a lot about 'bare-bones' system configuration, and everything is built from source. This means ive got a 10-20% spped advantage on the same hardware as everything is built for the athlon-tbird with -03 optimisations (-02 being normal, and binary distros are usually built for either a 486 or 686)
This is irrelevent for a newbie tho, i suggest using some distro that holds your hand... what language(s) do you write in? gentoo obviously has a good build environment, but i dont know about the big distros...
Hi Ben
Just about finished a Linux From Scratch build (ver 3.3) in the hope that it will provide me with a stable base on which to build a whole new system. This started off as a basic Red Hat 7.3 install - I'm begining to see why RH is *lovingly* referred to as Dead Rat after hitting a brick wall with their gcc-2.96 and gcc-3.2 compilers.
Gentoo is fine if you want an optimised install without the masocistic tendencies of an LFS system. Go to Red Hat/Mandrake or SuSE for easy, all be it, bloated installs. Or alternatively, use Debian - Probably the most popular distro on this list.. (apt_rant deleted).
If you need any CDs of the various distros, you only have to ask - Most of us are only too willing to help out.
Regards, Paul.
On Wednesday 11 Dec 2002 11:18 pm, Tristan Scott wrote:
So, to start off. What distros are used by most of you, since I don't wanna start using a distro I can't get help for. Plus, I don't know which Distro would be best suited for a homeuser/developer/gamer.
Im running Gentoo. this is a good one if you're already into linux, or want to know a lot about 'bare-bones' system configuration, and everything is built from source.
Paul wrote:
Hi Ben
Just about finished a Linux From Scratch build (ver 3.3) in the hope that it will provide me with a stable base on which to build a whole new system. This started off as a basic Red Hat 7.3 install - I'm begining to see why RH is *lovingly* referred to as Dead Rat after hitting a brick wall with their gcc-2.96 and gcc-3.2 compilers.
You're a brave man! Respect!
Gentoo is fine if you want an optimised install without the masocistic tendencies of an LFS system. Go to Red Hat/Mandrake or SuSE for easy, all be it, bloated installs. Or alternatively, use Debian - Probably the most popular distro on this list.. (apt_rant deleted).
I use Gentoo as well, and wouldn't use a conventional distro again. However, you're quite right here. If I were to choose a distro, I'd choose SuSE first, and Red Hat last.
Hi Laurie
Nooo.... Desperate and perhaps a little foolish - I just want a clean basic system that will compile and run a realtime kernel and one application without having to fight all the way.
It took about eight hours to complete the entire LFS build following the instructions in the manual and using the LFS scripts. Probably take another eight months to compile all the other packages (XFree86, KDE, etc...).
Regards, Paul.
On Thursday 12 Dec 2002 9:03 am, Laurie Brown wrote:
You're a brave man! Respect!
On Thursday, December 12, 2002 9:48 PM, Paul wrote;
Hi Laurie
Nooo.... Desperate and perhaps a little foolish - I just want a clean basic system that will compile and run a realtime kernel and one application without having to fight all the way.
It took about eight hours to complete the entire LFS build following the instructions in the manual and using the LFS scripts. Probably take another eight months to compile all the other packages (XFree86, KDE, etc...).
Regards, Paul.
On Thursday 12 Dec 2002 9:03 am, Laurie Brown wrote:
You're a brave man! Respect!
Have you looked at the ALFS (Automated LFS) stuff? I was tempted away from LFS by the delights of Debian but before that I thought ALFS might be the way to go.
Keith ____________ Stand still. The trees ahead and the bush beside you are not lost. Albert Einstein
Keith Watson wrote:
[SNIP]
Have you looked at the ALFS (Automated LFS) stuff? I was tempted away from LFS by the delights of Debian but before that I thought ALFS might be the way to go.
No, tell me more. Is there info on the lfs website (sort of rhetorical question).
Cheers, Laurie.
Laurie Brown wrote on Friday, December 13, 2002 9:41 AM
Have you looked at the ALFS (Automated LFS) stuff? I was
tempted away from LFS by the delights of Debian but before that I thought ALFS might be the way to go.
No, tell me more. Is there info on the lfs website (sort of rhetorical question).
rhetorically speaking try http://automated.linuxfromscratch.org/, a brief look suggests that development has stalled on this lately but it might be worth a visit.
Beyond LFS http://beyond.linuxfromscratch.org/ and LFS hints http://hints.linuxfromscratch.org/ are also worth a visit.
Keith ____________ AIR, n A nutritious substance supplied by a bountiful Providence for the fattening of the poor. - Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary
Hi Keith
Had a quick look, but chose to do it all the hard way... The various bash scripts described in the manual usually come in a seperate tarball. I just appended the bulk of them to a dedicated build script and left it to run.
The basic system is really quite easy to set up - (To every one you is thinking about it), Go on, give it a go whilst you are digesting the fowl and recovering from the hangovers week next.
Regards, Paul.
On Friday 13 Dec 2002 9:21 am, Keith Watson wrote:
Have you looked at the ALFS (Automated LFS) stuff? I was tempted away from LFS by the delights of Debian but before that I thought ALFS might be the way to go.
On Friday 13 December 2002 18:55, Paul wrote:
Hi Keith
Had a quick look, but chose to do it all the hard way... The various bash scripts described in the manual usually come in a seperate tarball. I just appended the bulk of them to a dedicated build script and left it to run.
Huh? The scripts are in a tarball? arse. I just cut & pasted them from the manual :-) Don't suppose you *cough* have your nice appended script still? *ahem* If so, I don't suppose you could send it me please? ta.
The basic system is really quite easy to set up - (To every one you is thinking about it), Go on, give it a go whilst you are digesting the fowl and recovering from the hangovers week next.
Funnily enough, that was my plan originally, then I got bored one night and decided to go for it...
BenE
Regards, Paul.
On Friday 13 Dec 2002 9:21 am, Keith Watson wrote:
Have you looked at the ALFS (Automated LFS) stuff? I was tempted away from LFS by the delights of Debian but before that I thought ALFS might be the way to go.
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Errr Ver. 3.3 or 4.0 ??
I *think* they got deleted... But I *might* have a backup at the office on one of the CDs I made of the base system (just in case it got trashed.)
Regards, Paul.
On Friday 13 Dec 2002 9:43 pm, BenEBoy wrote:
Huh? The scripts are in a tarball? arse. I just cut & pasted them from the manual :-) Don't suppose you *cough* have your nice appended script still? *ahem* If so, I don't suppose you could send it me please? ta.
Hi Guys,
Appreciate you are all busy people, but why would you choose SuSe first over Redhat? I am not questioning your opinion, just like to hear reasons to grasp a better understanding. I like SuSe, just because I have used it over the last few years, but as you know just installed Redhat and like that as well. Perhaps I am not using the full potential to understand benefits from one distro to the next.
Take Care,
Jamie
-----Original Message----- From: main-admin@lists.alug.org.uk [mailto:main-admin@lists.alug.org.uk]On Behalf Of Laurie Brown Sent: 12 December 2002 09:04 To: Paul Cc: main@lists.alug.org.uk Subject: Re: [Alug] Re: Welcome to the "main" mailing list (Digest mode)
Paul wrote:
Hi Ben
Just about finished a Linux From Scratch build (ver 3.3) in the hope that
it
will provide me with a stable base on which to build a whole new system.
This
started off as a basic Red Hat 7.3 install - I'm begining to see why RH is *lovingly* referred to as Dead Rat after hitting a brick wall with their gcc-2.96 and gcc-3.2 compilers.
You're a brave man! Respect!
Gentoo is fine if you want an optimised install without the masocistic tendencies of an LFS system. Go to Red Hat/Mandrake or SuSE for easy, all
be
it, bloated installs. Or alternatively, use Debian - Probably the most popular distro on this list.. (apt_rant deleted).
I use Gentoo as well, and wouldn't use a conventional distro again. However, you're quite right here. If I were to choose a distro, I'd choose SuSE first, and Red Hat last. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- www.convergent-ict.com You manage your business. We manage your IT. ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Jamie French wrote:
Hi Guys,
Appreciate you are all busy people, but why would you choose SuSe first over Redhat? I am not questioning your opinion, just like to hear reasons to grasp a better understanding. I like SuSe, just because I have used it over the last few years, but as you know just installed Redhat and like that as well. Perhaps I am not using the full potential to understand benefits from one distro to the next.
Because it's European, not American. Because it a lot more stable, as in they take a lot of care ensuring packages are tested, which is a lot more than can be said for RH. It's closer to the LSB There are a lot more packages with it.
For a reason to choose Red Hat: there are more RPMs for RH than any other distro.
Cheers, Laurie.
Laurie Brown laurie@brownowl.com wrote:
For a reason to choose Red Hat: there are more RPMs for RH than any other distro.
Another reason to choose quite a lot of other distributions than SuSE: they include installers that are free software (GPL, etc) too, so you can copy and modify the CDs without restriction.
MJR (come on, you expected me to point that out, didn't you?)
Hi Adam
I'd suggest a quick read of the EULA on the RH disks - Whilst the install system is GPL, some of the images/trademarks have restrictions attached. RH have seen fit to incorporate their logo into a couple of packages which makes redistribution mildly problematic.
Regards, Paul.
On Friday 13 Dec 2002 12:00 pm, MJ Ray wrote:
Another reason to choose quite a lot of other distributions than SuSE: they include installers that are free software (GPL, etc) too, so you can copy and modify the CDs without restriction.
But then I usually end up compiling the package from the sources for one reason or another..
Regards, Paul.
On Friday 13 Dec 2002 9:51 am, Laurie Brown wrote:
For a reason to choose Red Hat: there are more RPMs for RH than any other distro.
Sorry for the delay, lost a load of emails which now I have found. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I have been a SuSe user for a while, basically because of Eastern days :) I quite like Gnome though, mind you haven't looked at the new KDE.
Take Care,
J
-----Original Message----- From: main-admin@lists.alug.org.uk [mailto:main-admin@lists.alug.org.uk]On Behalf Of Laurie Brown Sent: 13 December 2002 09:52 To: jamie.french@talk21.com Cc: main@lists.alug.org.uk Subject: Re: [Alug] Re: Welcome tthe "main" mailing list (Digest mode)
Jamie French wrote:
Hi Guys,
Appreciate you are all busy people, but why would you choose SuSe first
over
Redhat? I am not questioning your opinion, just like to hear reasons to grasp a better understanding. I like SuSe, just because I have used it
over
the last few years, but as you know just installed Redhat and like that as well. Perhaps I am not using the full potential to understand benefits
from
one distro to the next.
Because it's European, not American. Because it a lot more stable, as in they take a lot of care ensuring packages are tested, which is a lot more than can be said for RH. It's closer to the LSB There are a lot more packages with it.
For a reason to choose Red Hat: there are more RPMs for RH than any other distro.
Cheers, Laurie. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Laurie Brown laurie@brownowl.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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On Thursday 12 December 2002 00:11, Paul wrote:
Hi Ben
Just about finished a Linux From Scratch build (ver 3.3) in the hope that it will provide me with a stable base on which to build a whole new system. This started off as a basic Red Hat 7.3 install - I'm begining to see why RH is *lovingly* referred to as Dead Rat after hitting a brick wall with their gcc-2.96 and gcc-3.2 compilers.
:-P I'm two thirds of the way through compiling gnome 2 on my LFS 4.0 system. Sorry if that sounds competitive but a mate and me are having a contest to see who can get to xdoom first and it's a bit contagious...
Quoting Paul paul.corner@tesco.net:
If you need any CDs of the various distros, you only have to ask - Most of us are only too willing to help out.
I'm happy to download any ISOs etc I need from the net, I'm not in a rush to do anything really. Thanks for the offer though.
Quoting Tristan Scott trs@scott998.freeserve.co.uk:
Im running Gentoo. this is a good one if you're already into linux
I'm not ^^
This is irrelevent for a newbie tho, i suggest using some distro that holds your hand... what language(s) do you write in? gentoo obviously has a good build environment, but i dont know about the big distros...
I think I'll stick with Debian unless someone has a good reason I shouldn't.
I'm a decent programmer when it comes to java, c, c++, c#, php, VB, JavaScript and most of their variations (such as ActionScript, VBScript, JSP, ASP, etc). I've messed around with Assembly, OpenGL, DirectX, the WinAPI and Sockets/Network programming but not done any major projects with them yet.
I'm absololutly useless when it comes to hardware though. Only recently I'm starting to come to grips with everything since I'm planning on buying a new computer so been reading up on all the latest tech stuff. I think I'll have the most trouble during installation when it asks for my hardware settings (like an Interupts/DMA/etc). As for figuring out how to install various packages, thats where I ring up a few friends and post to this list.
Cheers for the feedback,
Ben "Losing broadband for a whole 2 weeks, how am I gonna survive?!?!?" Ellis
-
B.E.D.Ellis-00＠student.lboro.ac.uk -
BenEBoy -
Jamie French -
Keith Watson -
Laurie Brown -
MJ Ray -
Paul -
Tristan Scott