It says << WARN Can't get modified time of /usr/lib/thunderbird/features/wetransfer@extension.thunderbird.net >>

Same in safe mode.

Need to correct myself though. It seems to be both the imap account and the pop account. It's my isp's server it struggles to connect with.

Will take look at the Lifewire page.

Webmail working fine.

Bev

On 21/02/2021 21:06, steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk wrote:

On 20/02/2021 11:24, Bev Nicolson wrote:

...

I use Thunderbird as a client for 4 email addresses. From yesterday, it's begun taking an age to log in to one POP server. It gets there eventually, and no error messages come up, but it would be great to sort it out.

I've cleared the cache but that hasn't helped. Ideas?

Start thunderbird from a shell, instead of from the menu/icon.

try

thunderbird

this will start thunderbird - it shows some messages on the console so any bad errors will show.  I get a lot of messages about the user interface when I do this.  See if there's anything obvious - you may need to redirect output to a file to read it properly.

If that doesn't show anything try

thunderbird --safe-mode

see if that fixes things - if it does - it's an add-in that's causing the problem.

If not, look at this https://www.lifewire.com/pop-imap-smtp-traffic-thunderbird-1173156

Scroll down to the linux section.

Note, the 1st example used "set", then 2nd used "export"  I don't know what you need, so I tried both, e.g. to log just IMAP to a text file in the current directory

set NSPR_LOG_MODULES=IMAP:4 export NSPR_LOG_MODULES=IMAP:4 export NSPR_LOG_FILE=~/tbird.log.txt thunderbird

obviously use POP not Imap for you.

I tried that and stressfully got a log file.  I couldn't make head nor tail of it of course.

Does the pop mail has a web interface?  Is that working OK?

Good luck

Steve

---

main@lists.alug.org.uk http://www.alug.org.uk/ https://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe?  See message headers or the web site above!

Contacted my ISP in case they could help and they suggest seeing if my anti virus software is causing issues. I'm not sure since it would surely affect the other addresses but if I wanted to check for email scanning options how would I do that? I can't see how. I do have a gui installed for ClamTK.

Bev

On 21/02/2021 22:54, Bev Nicolson wrote:

Done that (the Lifewire suggestion) and have a novella. What am I looking for? Anyone done this who can interpret them?

Bev

On 21/02/2021 22:33, Bev Nicolson wrote:

...

It says <<  WARN Can't get modified time of /usr/lib/thunderbird/features/wetransfer@extension.thunderbird.net >>

Same in safe mode.

Need to correct myself though. It seems to be both the imap account and the pop account. It's my isp's server it struggles to connect with.

Will take look at the Lifewire page.

Webmail working fine.

Bev

On 21/02/2021 21:06, steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk wrote:

...

On 20/02/2021 11:24, Bev Nicolson wrote:

...

I use Thunderbird as a client for 4 email addresses. From yesterday, it's begun taking an age to log in to one POP server. It gets there eventually, and no error messages come up, but it would be great to sort it out.

I've cleared the cache but that hasn't helped. Ideas?

Start thunderbird from a shell, instead of from the menu/icon.

try

thunderbird

this will start thunderbird - it shows some messages on the console so any bad errors will show.  I get a lot of messages about the user interface when I do this.  See if there's anything obvious - you may need to redirect output to a file to read it properly.

If that doesn't show anything try

thunderbird --safe-mode

see if that fixes things - if it does - it's an add-in that's causing the problem.

If not, look at this https://www.lifewire.com/pop-imap-smtp-traffic-thunderbird-1173156

Scroll down to the linux section.

Note, the 1st example used "set", then 2nd used "export"  I don't know what you need, so I tried both, e.g. to log just IMAP to a text file in the current directory

set NSPR_LOG_MODULES=IMAP:4 export NSPR_LOG_MODULES=IMAP:4 export NSPR_LOG_FILE=~/tbird.log.txt thunderbird

obviously use POP not Imap for you.

I tried that and stressfully got a log file.  I couldn't make head nor tail of it of course.

Does the pop mail has a web interface?  Is that working OK?

Good luck

Steve

---

main@lists.alug.org.uk http://www.alug.org.uk/ https://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe?  See message headers or the web site above!

Top posting, because before you do the below, you should consider this:

There are two ways of using email on Linux.

Your email stays on a remote server (e.g. your ISPs) and Thunderbird looks at it there.  (I suspect that's what you're doing).  or

You run some sort of daemon/server on your computer, e.g. Exim (but there are others).  This fetches the the mail from the remote server and stores it locally.  Thunderbird then talks to your local daemon/server.

If you're using the first method, like I suspect you are then: If you're like me and keep most of your emails, over time, you can end up with tons of stuff, particularly if people have sent you emails with large attachments.

There are two main ways of communicating with a mail server to fetch mail, IMAP and POP (POP3). IMAP is quite efficient.  I think POP is not quite as efficient, but it may be that, when thunderbird connects to your ISPs mail server, it's having to check every single message.  Over time, this could cause things to slow down.

A) If you've noticed a sudden slow-down, then it's more likely that something has broken, or configuration needs to be changed. B) If you've noticed a gradual slow-down, then this might be what's occurring.

If it's B, then the advice used to be, (particularly using POP), delete messages you don't need.  Also, Thunderbird has "Local Folders".  Basically this is a mail store that sits on your machine.  You can move emails from your ISPs mailbox to a Local Folder.  This will delete it from your ISP and put it onto your computer where it should be accessible quicker.  The drawback of this though is that it's then only accessible on that one computer.  Another drawback, is that you're at the mercy of Thunderbird to store the emails.  It's good, but I don't do this, except as a backup.

Now, my other thoughts below...

On 21/02/2021 22:54, Bev Nicolson wrote:

Done that (the Lifewire suggestion) and have a novella. What am I looking for? Anyone done this who can interpret them?

OK.  I suggest that you do it again.  Wait for it to log-in successfully, then shut down Thunderbird.

I just tried it on my system.  I got messages D/IMAP and I/IMAP. I'm *GUESSING* that D/IMAP is Thunderbird sending to the remote server, and I/IMAP is it receiving.  (Obviously you'll have to set the logging to check the right think - set it for POP3, IMAP or both depending on which is slow.  If you don't know which is slow, set it for both.

I'm getting messages like D/IMAP Try to log in

D/IMAP got new password D/IMAP login succeeded

If there are any lines that say error, or timeout or failed, or something similar.  I'm guessing that might be the problem.

Good luck.

Steve

On 22/02/2021 20:36, Bev Nicolson wrote:

My Local Folder is pretty full. I do try to compact my inboxes on a regular basis.

OK, you're already using local folders. When you compact inboxes, do you do it for your local folder(s) and your remote inbox(es)?  If it's possible, it might speed things up.

Definitely A, but still can't see anything in the log file that shows anything odd. Which leads me to this.

Would I lose anything (actually lose anything rather than 'is it a risk worth taking', I mean) by uninstalling Thunderbird then reinstalling or would it go Pete Tong?

Well, you might loose all the emails in your local folders.  That's a big risk!  If you back it up all up, you may be able to automagically have them reappear, or import them into a fresh install, but it's risky.  It's not a risk I'd take.

You could perhaps try creating a new user login e.g. test.  Open up Thunderbird in it and connect it to your ISP.  Just see if it connects quickly, then quit.  At worst this may mark some emails as read.  Providing you don't move or delete any emails.

If it's quicker, then perhaps there's a problem with your thunderbird config or installation. If it's the same, then perhaps your ISP is just slow?

I'm at the limit of my knowledge here Bev.  I don't want you to do anything that'll loose your emails.

Perhaps do a bit of googling and view the Thunderbird help pages and Mozilla/Thunderbird forums to look for or ask for help?

Good luck.

Steve

On Mon, 22 Feb 2021 20:36:39 +0000 Bev Nicolson lumos@gmx.co.uk allegedly wrote:

My Local Folder is pretty full. I do try to compact my inboxes on a regular basis.

Definitely A, but still can't see anything in the log file that shows anything odd. Which leads me to this.

Would I lose anything (actually lose anything rather than 'is it a risk worth taking', I mean) by uninstalling Thunderbird then reinstalling or would it go Pete Tong?

Bev

(Sorry for coming late to the party)

Bev

Before you attempt to re-install Tbird, I suggest you try bypassing it completely by either (best) testing a direct connection to the IMAP server, or (second best) installing an alternative lightweight mail client such as claws. (I use claws all the time).

I'm assuming that you are using IMAPS and not plain IMAP so you cannot just test the connection with telnet, you would need to use openssl. So try the following (replacing imap.host.name with whatever your ISP's host is called):

1. openssl s_client -crlf -connect imap.host.name:993

If succcessful you will see the message "CONNECTED" followed by a lot of details about the certificate in use (see my test to my server below)

Now login with your user name and password

2. a001 login admin@rlogin.net password

(the a001 bit is just a tag, it can be anything you like)

If succesful, you will get a message like:

a001 OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 SASL-IR LOGIN-REFERRALS ID ENABLE IDLE SORT SORT=DISPLAY THREAD=REFERENCES THREAD=REFS THREAD=ORDEREDSUBJECT MULTIAPPEND URL-PARTIAL CATENATE UNSELECT CHILDREN NAMESPACE UIDPLUS LIST-EXTENDED I18NLEVEL=1 CONDSTORE QRESYNC ESEARCH ESORT SEARCHRES WITHIN CONTEXT=SEARCH LIST-STATUS BINARY MOVE SNIPPET=FUZZY LITERAL+ NOTIFY SPECIAL-USE] Logged in

Now list the mailboxes

3. a001 LIST "" "*"

You should see something like:

* LIST (\HasNoChildren \UnMarked \Junk) "." Junk * LIST (\HasNoChildren \UnMarked \Drafts) "." Drafts * LIST (\HasNoChildren \UnMarked \Sent) "." Sent * LIST (\HasNoChildren \UnMarked) "." Queue * LIST (\HasNoChildren \UnMarked \Trash) "." Trash * LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." INBOX a001 OK List completed (0.002 + 0.000 + 0.001 secs).

Now select a mailbox to check

4. a001 SELECT INBOX

You should see something like:

* FLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Draft $Forwarded) * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Draft $Forwarded *)] Flags permitted. * 88 EXISTS * 0 RECENT * OK [UIDVALIDITY 1567098095] UIDs valid * OK [UIDNEXT 1025] Predicted next UID a001 OK [READ-WRITE] Select completed (0.001 + 0.000 + 0.001 secs).

(So in my case I have 88 messages in my admin mailbox)

If that all works OK just logout

5. a001 LOGOUT

and you should see:

* BYE Logging out a001 OK Logout completed (0.001 + 0.000 secs).

All the commands above are noted in the RFC for IMAP at https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3501

If any of the above fails, or takes far too long, or you get error messages, note the failure message - it will be useful in discussions with your ISP. In my test all the responses from my server were almost instantaneous.

If you don't fancy trying any of that, just install claws and configure it to connect to your ISPs server. Now connect and go to "Tools" -> "Network log" to see details of the network transactions. Again any errors shopuld be fairly obvious.

HTH

Mick

----- my test to mail.rlogin.net -------------------

mick@shed ~ $ openssl s_client -crlf -connect tap.rlogin.net:993 CONNECTED(00000003) depth=2 O = Digital Signature Trust Co., CN = DST Root CA X3 verify return:1 depth=1 C = US, O = Let's Encrypt, CN = R3 verify return:1 depth=0 CN = mail.rlogin.net verify return:1 --- Certificate chain 0 s:CN = mail.rlogin.net i:C = US, O = Let's Encrypt, CN = R3 1 s:C = US, O = Let's Encrypt, CN = R3 i:O = Digital Signature Trust Co., CN = DST Root CA X3 --- Server certificate -----BEGIN CERTIFICATE----- MIIFVTCCBD2gAwIBAgISBGeOs9sQbztR78E4moRePfNeMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUA MDIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1MZXQncyBFbmNyeXB0MQswCQYDVQQD EwJSMzAeFw0yMTAxMTgxODU3NTNaFw0yMTA0MTgxODU3NTNaMBoxGDAWBgNVBAMT D21haWwucmxvZ2luLm5ldDCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEB ANeYI27lpEjci2qyxI3GauL6J1ETuh4hVMzbZzL9vhQqeCOymIwCV4V4NTq+WINB +CMPaNmpUxLZZ9CTI4qOU4TU2+wXu27sm9U846f9Z91Z1aPQ6dgzS3xLbRyTbhda p2FEidSJbOxSITzsoe6JLDevdKrAzUmMuhtbAOonTdwZJlcZv1w5r8k0mokLNTQy SPKfbFF3NNS3IpkvwstznMAgGcCbhPErcr6tanHRDIbIVqJWET6Si4YsuwtM2BO4 69AxoTsibk7Rm2LOPxrcTfAvP9tAhiSgFrlYisVjwJ9CyR7ADX63kIOA/9o54n+6 L2a0waYiBWQPljxvZLkh+i8CAwEAAaOCAnswggJ3MA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwIFoDAd BgNVHSUEFjAUBggrBgEFBQcDAQYIKwYBBQUHAwIwDAYDVR0TAQH/BAIwADAdBgNV HQ4EFgQUk/J6wx2fZZ2UxY0bMUzbAwFnQ7MwHwYDVR0jBBgwFoAUFC6zF7dYVsuu UAlA5h+vnYsUwsYwVQYIKwYBBQUHAQEESTBHMCEGCCsGAQUFBzABhhVodHRwOi8v cjMuby5sZW5jci5vcmcwIgYIKwYBBQUHMAKGFmh0dHA6Ly9yMy5pLmxlbmNyLm9y Zy8wTAYDVR0RBEUwQ4IPaW1hcC5ybG9naW4ubmV0gg9tYWlsLnJsb2dpbi5uZXSC D3NtdHAucmxvZ2luLm5ldIIOdGFwLnJsb2dpbi5uZXQwTAYDVR0gBEUwQzAIBgZn gQwBAgEwNwYLKwYBBAGC3xMBAQEwKDAmBggrBgEFBQcCARYaaHR0cDovL2Nwcy5s ZXRzZW5jcnlwdC5vcmcwggEDBgorBgEEAdZ5AgQCBIH0BIHxAO8AdQCUILwejtWN bIhzH4KLIiwN0dpNXmxPlD1h204vWE2iwgAAAXcXEz99AAAEAwBGMEQCIAUI2fgj 1JsZaUQBnI2akXHkRmvVkkcUa47POodrM22xAiAZGswlnWIdooEB6oIg5MUdPY5k 79SzBuYjBOmCaenZzgB2AH0+8viP/4hVaCTCwMqeUol5K8UOeAl/LmqXaJl+IvDX AAABdxcTP6cAAAQDAEcwRQIhAK9QCLakGd3SaZiL/kg4hH/ZAwV1fhSM6a1hMORE hGGXAiA5iMTdNY0AxfwICSVHS4fMcMz18ZQrxXir8tzdAQPrOzANBgkqhkiG9w0B AQsFAAOCAQEAng78qwOb9DyRH4t1KZDki6cymNGxECciPoNippEgbypapbfcrMnv 1dgdhrHwe46bGbEAFZGQGQHVnV1wGbKFUFB4MlKOIUtWb56nGED2PZmyRb//W+3R d5Fk1UmBHhHgOOvf5VDs9IyMusurkEuwDy17nDoxY6ddGXIpY0z8dD19W42PvX81 O9oMNgSF7Jrxrl2abc46R9Yfue8AZ5NX5ENI2QEMyb2DVw3LMX7mhX/qZ7758X6t ZGB1e9JsaosHOAcFiIWRlX4AL0gCLx8uMMh0Ulq/gnR2bPo+u3KEbnCjB1mhPJ6t q1rutU7gTmd7lR+3t+UpBcxkyLEA06SY0g== -----END CERTIFICATE----- subject=CN = mail.rlogin.net

issuer=C = US, O = Let's Encrypt, CN = R3

--- No client certificate CA names sent Peer signing digest: SHA256 Peer signature type: RSA-PSS Server Temp Key: X25519, 253 bits --- SSL handshake has read 3063 bytes and written 386 bytes Verification: OK --- New, TLSv1.3, Cipher is TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 Server public key is 2048 bit Secure Renegotiation IS NOT supported Compression: NONE Expansion: NONE No ALPN negotiated Early data was not sent Verify return code: 0 (ok) --- --- Post-Handshake New Session Ticket arrived: SSL-Session: Protocol : TLSv1.3 Cipher : TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 Session-ID: AA3103CFE371F96FC802D5EE8363DD4BA74629D13F94F326A765FAC676E3FD85 Session-ID-ctx: Resumption PSK: BCD3AB690795E6C2167BC662079E84D55708113F13293B2048C9D102F623C40C5A13F98B87D1C883ED5B84CFA4AEA180 PSK identity: None PSK identity hint: None SRP username: None TLS session ticket lifetime hint: 7200 (seconds) TLS session ticket: 0000 - 81 2b a7 b8 20 c5 5f fb-62 41 84 42 88 b8 bb e3 .+.. ._.bA.B.... 0010 - 52 90 89 a8 ec a0 1f b7-54 da fc 69 65 35 5d 99 R.......T..ie5]. 0020 - a4 8c 2e f2 a1 b0 fe 6e-e6 9c 2a 50 1a e8 94 29 .......n..*P...) 0030 - 33 e0 60 37 54 4a 2c 98-6d c2 fd 2d b5 3a 25 6e 3.`7TJ,.m..-.:%n 0040 - 8d 41 8b 89 2a 8d 93 3e-59 de 6e 91 58 6d 19 f7 .A..*..>Y.n.Xm.. 0050 - e0 43 6d 0f e4 1f 26 68-4c 90 34 2f 81 b1 f9 a1 .Cm...&hL.4/.... 0060 - e9 29 d7 67 bf 70 a2 ac-64 18 b2 69 15 05 ec 9c .).g.p..d..i.... 0070 - 07 00 be d2 6a fd 00 78-52 78 40 18 50 86 c7 20 ....j..xRx@.P.. 0080 - 67 80 ef 24 18 88 cc c5-bf f7 bc 75 ba e3 f2 c2 g..$.......u.... 0090 - 45 6a 45 8f 46 93 b2 35-44 e5 b4 18 90 38 d7 bd EjE.F..5D....8.. 00a0 - a6 1b 56 39 79 c1 fd 73-6b 87 b7 b4 98 b2 be d0 ..V9y..sk....... 00b0 - 38 b2 b2 17 d1 93 a2 50-b8 d2 19 c9 cf a5 f1 0f 8......P........ 00c0 - 72 86 82 cf 06 ea d6 e7-1f cc 58 26 d4 71 7d 8a r.........X&.q}.

Start Time: 1614096477 Timeout : 7200 (sec) Verify return code: 0 (ok) Extended master secret: no Max Early Data: 0 --- read R BLOCK --- Post-Handshake New Session Ticket arrived: SSL-Session: Protocol : TLSv1.3 Cipher : TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 Session-ID: 344811E79826BB5019BD5772040ADDB306A7E34D8D0B3C55EE1ADAF39A9DABE6 Session-ID-ctx: Resumption PSK: 5509904AE15D15FBC018D378A8B6A7B975E6710A43486100BA7E95861B6D556BBCA2C9EDD625902E787E7E190C06384F PSK identity: None PSK identity hint: None SRP username: None TLS session ticket lifetime hint: 7200 (seconds) TLS session ticket: 0000 - 81 2b a7 b8 20 c5 5f fb-62 41 84 42 88 b8 bb e3 .+.. ._.bA.B.... 0010 - 7f b8 bd 3a a9 d7 bf c4-96 72 10 2a a3 bc 00 8f ...:.....r.*.... 0020 - 1a 0e 55 d6 8c b0 89 dc-3f 10 14 82 f8 eb 2c 62 ..U.....?.....,b 0030 - 07 72 3e e6 02 07 f9 64-59 b0 8d 03 2a 5e 7f 07 .r>....dY...*^.. 0040 - 8d e0 02 de 84 ae 6b 7a-ef 6d 18 4d 04 70 f2 0b ......kz.m.M.p.. 0050 - 42 2b 46 27 db 45 48 ac-78 86 48 7a d5 e6 38 6f B+F'.EH.x.Hz..8o 0060 - 4f b0 9e b2 6a ce 12 1c-64 59 1a 51 b7 42 95 db O...j...dY.Q.B.. 0070 - 07 98 a4 a5 d9 98 72 e8-18 6a 45 ec 27 6f 5a 3a ......r..jE.'oZ: 0080 - f7 d0 59 57 97 39 f4 09-86 70 86 90 bb db 12 0a ..YW.9...p...... 0090 - e7 83 2a 22 33 f6 42 57-b4 e6 cc 6c cd e3 5a 84 ..*"3.BW...l..Z. 00a0 - e5 59 38 dc 5e ea 91 d8-cd f1 56 0e f6 e2 86 eb .Y8.^.....V..... 00b0 - c4 3c 0c e8 94 8d 64 5a-14 ba 18 2f 92 1e 29 26 .<....dZ.../..)& 00c0 - ac de f8 8a 6c b0 85 13-73 f9 07 3a 5d 8a d8 51 ....l...s..:]..Q

Start Time: 1614096477 Timeout : 7200 (sec) Verify return code: 0 (ok) Extended master secret: no Max Early Data: 0 --- read R BLOCK * OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 SASL-IR LOGIN-REFERRALS ID ENABLE IDLE LITERAL+ AUTH=PLAIN AUTH=LOGIN] Dovecot on mail.rlogin.net ready. a

------- end my test ----

--------------------------------------------------------------------- Mick Morgan gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 https://baldric.net/about-trivia ---------------------------------------------------------------------

<snip>

I'm assuming that you are using IMAPS and not plain IMAP so you cannot just test the connection with telnet, you would need to use openssl. So try the following (replacing imap.host.name with whatever your ISP's host is called):

1. openssl s_client -crlf -connect imap.host.name:993

If succcessful you will see the message "CONNECTED" followed by a lot of details about the certificate in use (see my test to my server below)

Now login with your user name and password

2. a001 login admin@rlogin.net password

(the a001 bit is just a tag, it can be anything you like)

If successful, you will get a message like:

<snip>

Can you take me through login again? When do I type in my password? On prompt? (I've got so far but it's not happy about this bit. I have two email addresses with my isp, by the way. I'm not sure if that makes any difference.)

Bev

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 10:00:12 +0000 Bev Nicolson lumos@gmx.co.uk allegedly wrote:

<snip>

Can you take me through login again? When do I type in my password? On prompt? (I've got so far but it's not happy about this bit. I have two email addresses with my isp, by the way. I'm not sure if that makes any difference.)

Bev

I'm assuming here that you have seen a successful "CONNECTED" message - something like:

CONNECTED(00000003)

[ some stuff about the TLS certificate ]

* OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 SASL-IR LOGIN-REFERRALS ID ENABLE IDLE LITERAL+ AUTH=PLAIN AUTH=LOGIN] Dovecot on mail.rlogin.net ready.

as I gave in my example of my test to my server. Note the bit about capabilities of the IMAP server followed by the IMAP server "ready" message (though that message is entirely configurable (in dovecot anyway) and could say anything at all).

After that OK message, you need to log in with the email address you are testing immediately followed by the password for that address on the same line. So if you have two email addresses (at say gmail.com) of the form:

bev1@gmail.com and bev2@gmail.com and you want to test bev1 then you would type:

a001 login bev1@gmail.com password-for-bev1@gmail.com

If that is successful then you should get the

OK - (blah, blah, blah capabilities) logged in

message.

If you do not see any of that, then let us know (abscuring any personal authentication details of course) and I'll have a look for you. The default authentication mechanism for dovecot is "plain" where the plaintext password is passed to the server at authentication time. This used to be a problem before TLS protected exchanges so there are umpteen others, Dovecot allows for fourteen[1] non-plaintext auth mechanisms and your system may be different to mine. And of course, the IMAP server may not be dovecot - cyrus is a popular alternative.

[1] See https://doc.dovecot.org/configuration_manual/authentication/authentication_m...

Mick

--------------------------------------------------------------------- Mick Morgan gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 https://baldric.net/about-trivia ---------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 14:39:00 +0000 Bev Nicolson lumos@gmx.co.uk allegedly wrote:

Still can't spot anything wrong! I've checked both accounts and the logs (I've saved the text of both) look fairly similar to what you got Mick, although connecting takes a while.

Bev

Is it gmx that you are having this problem with?

I have a gmx account (for testing purposes) and I have no problem connecting to imap.gmx.com (which is the same as imap.gmx.co.uk)

Mick

--------------------------------------------------------------------- Mick Morgan gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 https://baldric.net/about-trivia ---------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 15:35:17 +0000 Bev Nicolson lumos@gmx.co.uk allegedly wrote:

Nope. gmx is fine!

OK - well if you are seeing delays in connecting with a direct openssl connect login, then I think you can eliminate T'Bird as the source of your problem. It looks as if the problem is server side. You need to prove this to your ISP.

Mick

--------------------------------------------------------------------- Mick Morgan gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 https://baldric.net/about-trivia ---------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 15:59:43 +0000 Bev Nicolson lumos@gmx.co.uk allegedly wrote:

This is related. I've got Claws almost set up now, but it says I need to reconfigure the folder tree. I have no idea how. The documentation on the Claws site is not helping. (Saying I have done this will help me with my ISP, even though I've logged in directly.)

Bev

Left hand pane of the claws window in the folder list, right click on the folder "bev@whatever" (which will be the name you gave the top folder for your mail when you configured claws) and then "rebuild folder tree" on the drop down menu. Beware that this will delete local caches though.

Mick

--------------------------------------------------------------------- Mick Morgan gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 https://baldric.net/about-trivia ---------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 21:52:53 +0000 Bev Nicolson lumos@gmx.co.uk allegedly wrote:

It's not improved. Tested it again just now using open ssl instructions as before, also slow. (Slow to make initial connection, slow to send an email etc.)

So, assuming I've exhausted everyone's knowledge here, how can I convince my ISP to have look at things their end? I have no idea what else I can do.

How did the test with Claws go Bev? Same result as TBird?

You could copy the network log from Claws and send that to your ISP. It will show all the timings and there will be obvious slow spots around authentication and logging in if their end is at fault.

Mick

--------------------------------------------------------------------- Mick Morgan gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 https://baldric.net/about-trivia ---------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 12:18:32 +0000 Bev Nicolson lumos@gmx.co.uk allegedly wrote:

Claws and Evolution are both slow. (They've only got one mailbox to check.)

Found these two in the Claws log.

IMAP< 20 NO Mailbox doesn't exist: Queue (0.001 + 0.000 secs). ** IMAP error on ********************* STATUS error

[where ***** = name of ISP server)

Bev

I don't /think/ that error is relevant. It will only come after you have successfully logged in and authenticated to the IMAP server. That message comes from you attemptimg to connect to a non-existent mailbox (say "Trash" or a subfolder of "INBOX") which for some reason is not there.

None of the tests show the lag between opening up and the connection being made, though. It was odd testing it using Dovecot in Terminal as nothing seemed to be happening for a while. I just had to wait for it to throw some text up when it was ready to.

I assume here that you mean "testing it using openssl in Terminal" and not "Dovecot". Dovecot is the server end.

Is there anything else on the ISP server that you can trial a connection to? Say FTP? or or even a plain text server such as HTTP? If there is, then try connecting to that service and see if there is a similar lag. That will eliminate a general network lag problem and point solely to the IMP server. Are you aware of any other users having the same problem (Most ISPs have a "community blog" page somewhere where customers post queries/comments/complaints.)

Mick

--------------------------------------------------------------------- Mick Morgan gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 https://baldric.net/about-trivia ---------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 13:18:45 +0000 Bev Nicolson lumos@gmx.co.uk allegedly wrote:

...

Is there anything else on the ISP server that you can trial a connection to? Say FTP? or or even a plain text server such as HTTP? If there is, then try connecting to that service and see if there is a similar lag. That will eliminate a general network lag problem and point solely to the IMP server. Are you aware of any other users having the same problem (Most ISPs have a "community blog" page somewhere where customers post queries/comments/complaints.)

1. I don't know. I'm not certain where I'd look to see if there was a

FTP/HTTP server to be honest.

Well, the quickest way to check without trying a network scan (which the ISP might consider hostile....) is firstly to check the IP address of the IMAP server (dig, or nslookup whichever is your preference) then try a speculative connect to that address with an FTP client (or netcat or telnet to port 21) and a similar test to port 80. You could also try a connection to port 23 though I'd be astonished if an ISP left that open. Maybe try port 22 if you think they run ssh on the standard port.

Whatever you try, it might be a good idea to tell the ISP that you intend doing that. The UK CMCA can criminalise such action and you might set off all sorts of alarms. But the fact that you want to test this might make them wake up to your problem.

2. I've asked on the forum page but no-one else seems to be having

this problem. (It isn't super busy most of the time though, so ...)

And no-one from the ISP has responded?

Mick

--------------------------------------------------------------------- Mick Morgan gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 https://baldric.net/about-trivia ---------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 13:52:58 +0000 Bev Nicolson lumos@gmx.co.uk allegedly wrote:

...

Whatever you try, it might be a good idea to tell the ISP that you intend doing that. The UK CMCA can criminalise such action and you might set off all sorts of alarms. But the fact that you want to test this might make them wake up to your problem.

...

2. I've asked on the forum page but no-one else seems to be having

this problem. (It isn't super busy most of the time though, so ...)

And no-one from the ISP has responded?

Mick

Not there. I have had an email conversation with them, however, but it was proving frustrating so I ended it. (I have told them I tried the open ssl thing, by the way.)

OK - one more thought. If you haven't already tried this, try connecting to the IMAP server from a different (network) location. A good trial would be to use K9 on an android phone over your mobile provider's network (make sure you turn off wifi on the phone first). Or (possibly difficult at the moment in lockdown) try connecting from a laptop over a public wifi. You could of course also set up a wifi hotspot on your phone and connect through that from your laptop.

The point is to remove your local network from the equation. If no-one else is complaining and your ISP is not helping, then the problem /may/ not be their end.

Mick

--------------------------------------------------------------------- Mick Morgan gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 https://baldric.net/about-trivia ---------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, Mar 07, 2021 at 05:54:58PM +0000, Bev Nicolson wrote:

...

OK - one more thought. If you haven't already tried this, try connecting to the IMAP server from a different (network) location. A good trial would be to use K9 on an android phone over your mobile provider's network (make sure you turn off wifi on the phone first). Or (possibly difficult at the moment in lockdown) try connecting from a laptop over a public wifi. You could of course also set up a wifi hotspot on your phone and connect through that from your laptop.

The point is to remove your local network from the equation. If no-one else is complaining and your ISP is not helping, then the problem /may/ not be their end.

I've used the generic email app that comes with my phone, downloaded all the internet options (I always use WiFi, so hadn't bothered with this till now) and it's as quick as anything. So, something my end is stuffed.

Key point for me there. I just got asked by my ISP to test it on my phone and would have done so over WiFi.

But, as I have two other emails connected to Thunderbird (this one I'm using now and another gmx address) and they are fine, how do I track the problem down? It must be something specific to the isp related addresses. (Folders compacted, cache reduced, emails moved, etc, btw.)

My wife uses Thunderbird and IMAP to handle mail at TsoHost. She quite often sees slowdowns for no particularly good reason. When I have investigated the only issue I have ever managed to find is (only possibly) that Thunderbird has too many open connections to the IMAP server. If/when you find out what's happening to you I'll be very interested to see if the fix (if there is one) can help us too.

On 07/03/2021 20:30, mick wrote:

On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 17:54:58 +0000 Bev Nicolson lumos@gmx.co.uk allegedly wrote:

...

But, as I have two other emails connected to Thunderbird (this one I'm using now and another gmx address) and they are fine, how do I track the problem down? It must be something specific to the isp related addresses. (Folders compacted, cache reduced, emails moved, etc, btw.)

One more quick thought before I suggest trying anything else. If you do not have a fixed IP address from idnet, please try re-booting your router to get a new one.

Done that. Still slow.

(Though having moved some emails from another gmx account, once it's connected, it's bit quicker. Go figure. Though you'll probably guess what's up!)

Bev

<snip>

Bev

I've taken a look at the idnet site and it seems that they give out fixed IPV4 addresses and a /48 for IPV6 - so rebooting your router won't have changed the address.

One question I don't think we have addressed is whether the problem only occurs on this one specific email address at idnet (you say you use Tbird for others such as gmx).

I should have said. It's two addresses. (One IMAP the other POP.) Same securemail server address though.

Well the router *claimed* to get a new IP address within the range you suggested so ...

<snip>

After that, I'm out of ideas. But my money is on either a corruption in your idnet account, or some weird comms problem between you and the idnet IMAP server.

I mean I'm no expert (obviously!) but this is my hunch. Nothing else has worked so some comms glitch that means it mithers about showing me the emails is the only thing left.

Will investigate your other suggestion, though. Thanks for your time, Mick.

Bev.

On Tue, Mar 09, 2021 at 08:09:29PM +0000, Bev Nicolson wrote:

On 08/03/2021 17:34, Bev Nicolson wrote:

...

...

After that, I'm out of ideas. But my money is on either a corruption in your idnet account, or some weird comms problem between you and the idnet IMAP server.

Early signs indicate it *could* be caused by multiple simultaneous connections. How, I do not know, but that's what they're seeing.

I don't know if anyone {else) noticed my comment a little way back but that's exactly the (rather vague, so not *very* exact) issue that my wife has seen when using thunderbird to access an IMAP server.

I've never managed to really tie it down definitely but there does seem to be some sort of issue with thunderbird and multiple (= too many) connections.

On 09/03/2021 20:37, Bev Nicolson wrote:

[Jumping in at (I think) one of the most recent posts, but not directly following on from...]

Other thoughts. [AKA Grasping at straws]

Could there be some sort of attempt to start a connection, which is timing out then switching to a different one?

I was thinking that perhaps Thunderbird is trying to initiate a login with a (sign-in) protocol that is not supported or correctly configured.  After a while, it'll give up, then swap to a lesser one that actually works.

In the past, I feel that my system tried to do things using IPV6. It would wait a while, then give up because I'm not using IPV6. Once I disabled IPV6 on a few key machines, things seemed to speed up.  This was a while ago though and is probably not relevant.

Waiting for removed/corrupted folders.  Here's a thought. In thunderbird, at the top of the folder hierarchy, there's a mailbox name which has a "v" by it, or ">" if the mailbox folders are collapsed to one line.

If you right-click on this mailbox name, you get a pop-up menu.  One of the options is "Subscribe".  This shows a list of the folders that exist on the remote server, and that should appear beneath your mailbox name.  I suggest doing "Refresh" to make  sure the list is up-to-date.  Check for any folders you don't expect to see.  Then perhaps try unsubscribing from all but one.  Then add them back in a few at a time, and see if there is a folder that slows things down. If there is, right-click on the folder (under the mailbox, not in the subscribe dialog box).  Click on "Repair".  Once that's done, right-click then "Compact".  See if that makes a difference!

Re the "Too many connections" suggestion, it is possible to control the number of IMap connections thunderbird has with a server.  This article shows how in windows, but it is basically the same.  The default no of connections is 5 though - that should be OK?

Anyway, that's some more things to try perhaps.

Good luck

Steve

On 10/03/2021 10:14, Bev Nicolson wrote:

...

I've taken a look at the idnet site and it seems that they give out fixed IPV4 addresses and a /48 for IPV6 - so rebooting your router won't have changed the address.

One question I don't think we have addressed is whether the problem only occurs on this one specific email address at idnet (you say you use Tbird for others such as gmx). To eliminate that possibility, is it possible for you to set up a completely new address with your ISP and test connectivity to that?

<snip>

...

So - try https://pingability.com/mailtest.jsp BUT NOTE that you must give them your email address and password. For obvious reasons I suggest strongly that you only do that only for your new test address, not the address you are actually concerned about.

Try also https://www.wormly.com/test-smtp-server they have both SMTP and POP3 tests (but no IMAP that I can see)

Right. New address. Tried pingability. It timed out. :-/

Set up test address in Evolution (disabling the other address I had there) and it kept asking for the password so there really are multiple logins being attempted at least.

Bev

IDNet are suggesting a factory reset of the router. As I've only tried rebooting one I'm a bit unsure about this. How much needs setting up again afterwards?

Is it at all possible for wpa updates to be incompatible at some level? *wild stab in the dark*

Bev.

On 10/03/2021 12:44, mick wrote:

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 11:35:27 +0000 Bev Nicolson lumos@gmx.co.uk allegedly wrote:

...

IDNet are suggesting a factory reset of the router. As I've only tried rebooting one I'm a bit unsure about this. How much needs setting up again afterwards?

That depends entirely upon how much you have changed the config from the default supplied by IDNet (assuming that you use their router).

For example, I never use an ISP supplied router (they tend to be pretty crappy, and are often (BT, I'm looking at you) remotely controlled and updated by the ISP). I routinely change the default RFC 1918 network internally, I always turn off UPnP, DNS, and DHCP (I have my own DHCP server internally for that). I always change any and all default logins/passwords. I turn off IPv6 and any guest networks. I always change wifi SSIDs and shared keys etc. I block any external access to the public IP address (but then poke a hole through to my internal openvpn server for when I am out and about). YMMV.

I'm not sure why IDNet want you to try this, but it is best to do so so that you (and they) can eliminate the possibility of a fault there. But before you try this, make a backup of the current configuration and save it locally on your PC. Also make a note of all your current network configs (so that if you have changed the default address and network you can get back in afterwards).

You might also like to take this opportunity to update the router firmware (if an update is available).

...

Is it at all possible for wpa updates to be incompatible at some level? *wild stab in the dark*

Anything is possible. But one way to check is to eliminate wifi from the connection (if that is what you currently use). Just plug an ethernet cable directly into the router from your PC/laptop and turn off wifi).

Mick

In their defence, I've got a better router (Billion) than I would have got for myself. It's actually designed for streaming and such like whereas I fear I may have 'worn' the previous one out and it expired totally and finally before its time. Ahem.

Actually wondering if connecting this laptop directly to the router will help. It hasn't been for various practical reasons ...

Noting your comments about router config. (Recalls time someone 'borrowed' the connection. Didn't have unlimited download then. Password protected it afterwards. A lesson learnt.)

Bev.

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 12:14:35 +0000 Bev Nicolson lumos@gmx.co.uk allegedly wrote:

Well. It *was* the router! Just reset it and it seems fine now.

Geronimo.

Just goes to show how far down various rabbit holes it is possible to go before finding the root cause. I should have spotted that possibility earlier on.

Glad it is now fixed though.

Mick

--------------------------------------------------------------------- Mick Morgan gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 https://baldric.net/about-trivia ---------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 13:52:58 +0000 Bev Nicolson lumos@gmx.co.uk allegedly wrote:

...

Whatever you try, it might be a good idea to tell the ISP that you intend doing that. The UK CMCA can criminalise such action and you might set off all sorts of alarms. But the fact that you want to test this might make them wake up to your problem.

...

2. I've asked on the forum page but no-one else seems to be having

this problem. (It isn't super busy most of the time though, so ...)

And no-one from the ISP has responded?

Mick

Not there. I have had an email conversation with them, however, but it was proving frustrating so I ended it. (I have told them I tried the open ssl thing, by the way.)

Bev

(Addendum to earlier email)

Assuming that your ISP is idnet, then the imap.idnet.net server runs an HTTP(S) server for webmail (on webmail.idnet.com but the same IP address) - which responds very quickly. I can't remember whether you tried that connection, and if so, what the result was.

Mick

--------------------------------------------------------------------- Mick Morgan gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 https://baldric.net/about-trivia ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Addendum to my last email

There is a very useful summary of the openssl command line at:

https://www.madboa.com/geek/openssl/#command-line-clients-and-servers

It can be used to test all sorts of SSL/TLS server configurations

Mick

I've bookmarked that. Thanks.

(Definitely not going to uninstall T'bird after Steve's warning, though.)

Bev.