I have just discovered 3ddesktop in the Ubuntu apt repositories.
It gives a wholesome 3D experience to virtual desktop switching that is not unlike (or in fact if you enable the right options in the config files, exactly like) the fast user switch in OSX
Only those with functional hardware 3D need bother to check it out, but I'd just thought I'd share.
As well as being a bit of eye candy it actually serves a useful purpose to me. Often I forget which virtual desktop I left one of the many apps I tend to have open and so end up switching through all of them. I know there is a setting somewhere to allow the taskbar in gnome to show all open apps. but with so many open it gets too cluttered.
It's hard to describe but with this you get a pretty good idea of what's on all (4 in my case) desktops because they are like panes of glass in that you can see the contents from behind.
On Thu, Sep 01, 2005 at 07:37:50PM +0100, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
As well as being a bit of eye candy it actually serves a useful purpose to me. Often I forget which virtual desktop I left one of the many apps I tend to have open and so end up switching through all of them. I know there is a setting somewhere to allow the taskbar in gnome to show all open apps. but with so many open it gets too cluttered.
Surely any half decent virtual desktop system provides you with some sort of clue what's running on which desktop in the desktop selection pane doesn't it? Certainly I wouldn't use one that didn't as there are so many excellent ones that do.
On Linux I use xfce whose virtual deskto pane shows a miniaturised version of the actual dektop and on Windows 2000 I run PowerDesk whose virtual desktop does exactly the same. The only system I run where this isn't true is my work Solaris system where we are still using CDE which just provides a pane of buttons for changing desktops. However even there I have them named so there's one button which says "Mail/News" for example, which (surprise!) goes to the desktop where I have my mail and news programs running.
Chris Green chris@areti.co.uk wrote:
On Thu, Sep 01, 2005 at 07:37:50PM +0100, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
[...] Often I forget which virtual desktop I left one of the many apps I tend to have open and so end up switching through all of them. [...]
Surely any half decent virtual desktop system provides you with some sort of clue what's running on which desktop in the desktop selection pane doesn't it? [...]
<p class="controversial"> Is any virtual desktop system half-decent? Personally, I find that computer desktops are similar to real desktops: you have to be very careful to keep them uncluttered, else you can't find what you want when you want it. Desktop controls with easier ways to tidy up beat virtual desktop systems every time.</p>
GNUstep applications have an invaluable "hide" menu command which packs all the application's windows away until you double-click the icon to unpack them again. What other good "clean-up" controls are out there?
Regards,
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MJ Ray mjr@phonecoop.coop wrote:
Chris Green chris@areti.co.uk wrote:
On Thu, Sep 01, 2005 at 07:37:50PM +0100, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
[...] Often I forget which virtual desktop I left one of the many apps I tend to have open and so end up switching through all of them. [...]
Surely any half decent virtual desktop system provides you with some sort of clue what's running on which desktop in the desktop selection pane doesn't it? [...]
<p class="controversial"> Is any virtual desktop system half-decent? Personally, I find that computer desktops are similar to real desktops: you have to be very careful to keep them uncluttered, else you can't find what you want when you want it. Desktop controls with easier ways to tidy up beat virtual desktop systems every time.</p>
If you use a sane window manager, then that deals with keeping things tidy (even if it does mean that you have to change some of those bad habits you had previously).
GNUstep applications have an invaluable "hide" menu command which packs all the application's windows away until you double-click the icon to unpack them again. What other good "clean-up" controls are out there?
GNUstep apps also tend to blat the screen with lots of windows, so it would be insane for them to not have that feature. I find that sticking things in consistant places *really* helps with finding them again, IRC and mail current live at the top of my first virtual desktop, the two bottom areas are set aside for random terminals, the second desktop is for full screen firefox and evolution, and the third desktop is for full screen or split screen development (depending on what I'm doing). If I need to use something that will fire up lots of windows, then desktop 4 comes in (and that's where things like GIMP end up).
Cheers, - -- Brett Parker web: http://www.sommitrealweird.co.uk/ email: iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk
Brett Parker iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk wrote:
GNUstep apps also tend to blat the screen with lots of windows [...]
When one doesn't know a subject, please don't make stuff up.
Open here at the moment: Terminal - one window open, Emacs-on-Aqua - one window, GNUMail - two windows (I have the folder browser open), GWorkspace - one window, Firefox Community Edition - two windows
Thinking through the installed apps here, there's only really Affiche (a "yellow notes" app) that opens lots of windows, but that's its job.
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MJ Ray mjr@phonecoop.coop wrote:
Brett Parker iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk wrote:
GNUstep apps also tend to blat the screen with lots of windows [...]
When one doesn't know a subject, please don't make stuff up.
Open here at the moment: Terminal - one window open,
That's what a terminal is for
Emacs-on-Aqua - one window,
Well, Enough said, Emacs is a window manager by its own right.
GNUMail - two windows (I have the folder browser open),
In normal use of GNUMail I found that I needed 5 windows open to do what I leave mutt sitting in the background for...
GWorkspace - one window,
Not a clue what that's for.
Firefox Community Edition - two windows
OK - that's fairly usual.
GNUstep apps have a tendency to open lots of windows when you need to do things, very similar to how GIMP does, I'm not saying it's wrong, just that I found, in my experience, that running a GNUstep desktop led to madness and a cluttered desktop.
Thanks, - -- Brett Parker web: http://www.sommitrealweird.co.uk/ email: iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk
Brett Parker iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk wrote:
GNUMail - two windows (I have the folder browser open),
In normal use of GNUMail I found that I needed 5 windows open to do what I leave mutt sitting in the background for... [...]
Doesn't sound like normal use to me, but YMMV.
GNUstep apps have a tendency to open lots of windows when you need to do things, very similar to how GIMP does, I'm not saying it's wrong, [...]
GIMP is not a GNUstep app and doesn't behave much like one.
I use GNUstep pretty much whenever I'm using X and apps don't usually need many windows open for work. There is a way to work with its user interface instead of against it, but that applies to woodwork tools as much as computer applications.
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MJ Ray mjr@phonecoop.coop wrote:
Brett Parker iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk wrote:
GNUMail - two windows (I have the folder browser open),
In normal use of GNUMail I found that I needed 5 windows open to do what I leave mutt sitting in the background for... [...]
Doesn't sound like normal use to me, but YMMV.
Apparently you don't filter mail, much, then... or compose things, or quickly need to get to a different index, or actually do anything useful? Hmm, as you say, YMMV :P
GNUstep apps have a tendency to open lots of windows when you need to do things, very similar to how GIMP does, I'm not saying it's wrong, [...]
GIMP is not a GNUstep app and doesn't behave much like one.
OK - that's fair, GIMP actually works, so that's a step up. It's similar in the way that nearly everything is it's own seperate little window, though... I'm waiting for them to decide that the tools in the tool box should all be there own independant windows...
I use GNUstep pretty much whenever I'm using X and apps don't usually need many windows open for work. There is a way to work with its user interface instead of against it, but that applies to woodwork tools as much as computer applications.
Yes, agreed, GNUstep has to be worked with, and if you're using just GNUstep apps, and don't persistantly think "oh, I better close that window now", you suddenly end up with a desktop with 6 billion windows spread across it, and the one you're looking for is buried in the stack somewhere... Also, there's not really a true GNUstep window manager that works yet...
You're a Mac user at heart, aren't you?
- -- Brett Parker web: http://www.sommitrealweird.co.uk/ email: iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk
Brett Parker iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk wrote:
Yes, agreed, GNUstep has to be worked with, and if you're using just GNUstep apps, and don't persistantly think "oh, I better close that window now", you suddenly end up with a desktop with 6 billion windows spread across it,
As previously mentioned, there are usually few windows open to do work. Very few applications try to open N windows like GIMP.
and the one you're looking for is buried in the stack somewhere...
That's what the Windows submenu is for.
Also, there's not really a true GNUstep window manager that works yet...
No, that's a niggle.
You're a Mac user at heart, aren't you?
Hardly. Last time I tried, I didn't reliably hit the tiddly or oddly-placed controls and the one-button mouse obscures some functions. Some of the new icons I couldn't recognise either.
On Fri, Sep 02, 2005 at 09:49:52AM +0100, Brett Parker wrote:
GNUstep apps also tend to blat the screen with lots of windows, so it would be insane for them to not have that feature. I find that sticking things in consistant places *really* helps with finding them again, IRC
Absolutely. I have the session manager save my 'standard' layout and rarely find I have to mess it about much in use.
Thus at work (on CDE) I have four desktops:-
Console - console terminal for errors and my web browser Mail/News - self explanatory Dev A - programming etc. Dev B - programming etc.
By chance the two main machines I use to do development work on are called apollo and babylon so they fit rather neatly into A and B.
At home I have a similar layout except in a different order and the two last are more 'miscellaneous' than development.
On Fri, 2005-09-02 at 09:29 +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
<p class="controversial"> Is any virtual desktop system half-decent? Personally, I find that computer desktops are similar to real desktops: you have to be very careful to keep them uncluttered, else you can't find what you want when you want it.
I am not sure I agree. I really like having virtual desktops and find there absence on MS Windows annoying (yes I know there are utilities to add them to windows, but in my experience they cause instability)
In a ideal world a nice clean desk with only a few sheets of paper is great. But in the real world there is often more than one thing going on at a time and virtual desktops help me keep different tasks separated (when I am organised enough to use them properly)
Using your analogy if I could have a physical desk that could be reconfigured at the touch of a button to be an electronics bench, accountants desk, meeting table or playpen and retain the exact states of any of those tasks as I switch between them I would be over the moon....
Desktop controls with easier ways to tidy up beat virtual desktop systems every time.</p>
Why not a combination of the two ?
What other good "clean-up" controls are out there?
Exposé ? While not quite the paradigm shift in desktop computing that Apple would have you believe, Exposé actually goes a long way to solve the buried window problem...and does this on a GUI that suffers from that problem less than most.
I am surprised that that a work-alike hasn't been integrated into Gnome or KDE yet, but even without Googling I am sure something similar is being worked on.
Wayne Stallwood ALUGlist@digimatic.plus.com
Expos=C3=A9 ? While not quite the paradigm shift in desktop computing that Apple would have you believe, Expos=C3=A9 actually goes a long way to solve the buried window problem...and does this on a GUI that suffers from that problem less than most.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/expose/ if anyone hasn't seen the hype yet. F10 (tile all) and F11 (hide all) aren't that revolutionary, but F9 (scale down) is a fun trick.
I am surprised that that a work-alike hasn't been integrated into Gnome or KDE yet, but even without Googling I am sure something similar is being worked on.
I expect it will be helped by the new developments in X display that should make it faster and easier.
Thanks for the ideas,
On Wed, 2005-09-28 at 12:00 +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
I expect it will be helped by the new developments in X display that should make it faster and easier.
Yes I am waiting to see what eye candy gets rolled into Gnome..I hear that late builds of KDE now use some of the new extensions to do fancy effects.
Whilst not a lover of too much bling...I like a bit (if it doesn't hit the system resources too hard) and Apple in particular (since OSX) have a knack at having eye candy type things that actually help the user interface to some degree.
For example in Office for Mac undocked toolbars go transparent if left untouched for a while....So if they are inadvertently over part of the document it doesn't matter because you can easily type under them, I would love to see Gimp do that..
Also rather than just stealing focus, if a dialogue box on a buried or minimised program appears the Dock icon bounces...little bounces mean that the program is waiting for some sort of user input...big bounces mean that something nasty has happened or an error box has appeared. The level of bounce is set so that even if the Dock is set to autohide the icons "peep" up at the bottom of the screen. I really like this behaviour as it is visible enough to grab your attention but not so intrusive that it stops you from finishing what you were doing in another app.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/expose/ if anyone hasn't seen the hype yet. F10 (tile all) and F11 (hide all) aren't that revolutionary, but F9 (scale down) is a fun trick.
I am surprised that that a work-alike hasn't been integrated into Gnome or KDE yet, but even without Googling I am sure something similar is being worked on.
I vaguely remember seeing one, it's called.. <damn, hang on, back in a Google> ...ah, that's right, Skippy.
http://thegraveyard.org/skippy.php
On seeing skippy-xd listed there, I can see how the use of xdamage, xcomposite etc could be very useful in this context.
I'll be downloading and trying that out myself :)
The page also mentions something called "expocity". Anyone tried this?
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On Fri, 2005-09-02 at 09:06 +0100, Chris Green wrote:
Surely any half decent virtual desktop system provides you with some sort of clue what's running on which desktop in the desktop selection pane doesn't it? Certainly I wouldn't use one that didn't as there are so many excellent ones that do.
Well yes and no.
The standard one in Ubuntu is workspace switcher, which only gives shaded boxes to represent open windows. This is fine until you have many similar size windows open.
I have seen other desktop pagers that show a proper thumbnail image of the desktop contents. But theses are so small that again sometimes it is hard to tell what's where. Any bigger and they would start using too much screen estate.
I like this 3ddesktop thing because it uses no screen real-estate and is only a key-press away.
That said one feature I like on workspace switcher is the ability to move windows between desktops by dragging them on the switcher panel, so I have left that running as well, it only uses a small amount of the taskbar panel.
On 9/2/05, Wayne Stallwood ALUGlist@digimatic.plus.com wrote:
I have seen other desktop pagers that show a proper thumbnail image of the desktop contents. But theses are so small that again sometimes it is hard to tell what's where. Any bigger and they would start using too much screen estate.
That said one feature I like on workspace switcher is the ability to move windows between desktops by dragging them on the switcher panel, so I have left that running as well, it only uses a small amount of the taskbar panel.
There are workspace switchers that do that - try right (or middle, I forget which) mouse button dragging the thumbnail version of the window.
Tim.
On Thursday 01 September 2005 19:37, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
I have just discovered 3ddesktop in the Ubuntu apt repositories.
It gives a wholesome 3D experience to virtual desktop switching that is not unlike (or in fact if you enable the right options in the config files, exactly like) the fast user switch in OSX
I've been a fond user of 3ddesktop myself on any distro where I GUI, and tend to have it bound to ^[tab] and ^[shift][tab] (although I've never bothered to bind it to mousewheel desktop switching).
It's very useful if you happen to use your desktops a lot - as I'll have apps like flash, photoshop and director open, working on graphical stuff which use a lot of screen real estate, it's invaluable to me to have them all laid out in the "drum" style so I can see all my desktops at once whenever I get confuzzled.
Eye-candy may be bloat to lots of people, but there's a fundamental truth that your environment's ambience affects the mind and its productivity.
In my experience, the hardware/software's functionality isn't the only reason you can earth-shift quicker on OS X with design work :)
anyway, just my $0.2
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Brett Parker -
Chris Green -
David Reynolds -
MJ Ray -
Ten -
Tim Green -
Wayne Stallwood