Norwich evening meeting on thursday 13th November at 8pm at the Forum bar. All welcome - put faces to names, gossip, exchange tips, have flame wars, whatever gets you through the night.
See you there Syd
Other Norwich dates for your diary: Thursday 11th December 8pm at the Forum Sunday 25rd January 2pm at the Billy Bluelight
Meetings pages on the ALUG site will be updated soon.
Syd Hancock syd@toufol.com wrote:
Norwich evening meeting on thursday 13th November at 8pm at the Forum bar. All welcome - put faces to names, gossip, exchange tips, have flame wars, whatever gets you through the night.
Oh, lets see if I remember this month, so that I can complain about the beer being off (as in, not served).
Cheers,
Brett.
On Tuesday 04 November 2003 23:07, Graham Trott wrote:
I've been thinking about this.
I feel overall it may well turn out to be a good thing, for Novel,SuSE and Linux as a whole. But I find myself a little disturbed by the vanishing commercial Linux distributer in the desktop market.
If Novel's ship goes down then SuSE could get dragged with them, one less commercial desktop distributer this shortly after Red Hat's shift in focus would not be a good thing.
On Wednesday 05 November 2003 21:51, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
On Tuesday 04 November 2003 23:07, Graham Trott wrote:
I've been thinking about this.
I feel overall it may well turn out to be a good thing, for Novel,SuSE and Linux as a whole. But I find myself a little disturbed by ^ the vanishing commercial Linux distributer ^ in the desktop market.
If Novel's ship goes down then SuSE could get dragged with them, one less commercial desktop distributer this shortly after Red Hat's shift in focus would not be a good thing.
Sorry that should read "the vanishing OF commercial Linux distributors in the desktop market"
main@lists.alug.org.uk http://www.alug.org.uk/ http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above!
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
If Novel's ship goes down then SuSE could get dragged with them, one less commercial desktop distributer this shortly after Red Hat's shift in focus would not be a good thing.
Has anybody on the list downloaded a copy of fedora yet? And what do people think of the whole RHL/fedora thing (I hope I'm not opening a big can of worms!) as the register have an interesting take on it all http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/33823.html
Simon
On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 05:05:29PM +0000, Simon Jude wrote:
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
If Novel's ship goes down then SuSE could get dragged with them, one less commercial desktop distributer this shortly after Red Hat's shift in focus would not be a good thing.
Has anybody on the list downloaded a copy of fedora yet? And what do people think of the whole RHL/fedora thing (I hope I'm not opening a big can of worms!) as the register have an interesting take on it all http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/33823.html
I downloaded fedora RC3 the other day and am installing Fedora Core 1 right now. My thoughts on RC3 were that it was quite nice and clicky, everything was in the right place by default. It detected hardware very well indeed (much better than Mandrake 9.2 on the same machine) configured the CD-Writer with no problems at all.
I think it will be good for newbies, (kinda funny given the Redhat CEOs(?) comment on saying people should stick to windows for the desktop! Anyhow time will tell if newbies like it as my parents are going to have not much of a choice in the matter.
adam
Having worked with Novell products for many moons, which now I don't, I feel it is Novells last chance to remain in the market. Novell have one good main technology and that is Novell Directory Services. I would much like to see NetWare replaced by Linux. Just remembering all those long nights sorting out NetWare servers aggghhhhh.
-----Original Message----- From: main-admin@lists.alug.org.uk [mailto:main-admin@lists.alug.org.uk] On Behalf Of Wayne Stallwood Sent: 05 November 2003 21:52 To: Graham Trott; alug Subject: Re: [ALUG] Novell to buy SuSE (with a bit of help from IBM)
On Tuesday 04 November 2003 23:07, Graham Trott wrote:
I've been thinking about this.
I feel overall it may well turn out to be a good thing, for Novel,SuSE and Linux as a whole. But I find myself a little disturbed by the vanishing commercial Linux distributer in the desktop market.
If Novel's ship goes down then SuSE could get dragged with them, one less commercial desktop distributer this shortly after Red Hat's shift in focus would not be a good thing.
_______________________________________________ main@lists.alug.org.uk http://www.alug.org.uk/ http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above!
Those present:
Mark (representing the Kings Lynn section) Bryce (Oz accountant-turned-programmer, currently doing OU) James (gissa job) Matt (first time - hope you come again) Lindsay, accompanying Matt Paul (<quote>"That bald-headed b*****d over there"</quote>) Jonathan Brett Graham (talks too much - the result of years of home-working)
Subjects under discussion included (one end of the table only):
The ritual gripe over the cost of beer and the lamentable service at the Forum. Why does sound stop working? What is a scripting language? (Discuss) Kernel security configuration (if I got that right) - a real tech question from Matt. Java rules / Java sucks. Why is it so difficult to get a job in IT? Is an IDE a Good Thing?
Syd was missed but his cold wasn't.
See you all next month
-- GT
On 2003-12-12 09:38:00 +0000 Graham Trott gt@pobox.com wrote:
The ritual gripe over the cost of beer and the lamentable service at the Forum.
Which reminds me, where shall we shift it to, we've been threatening for long enough, maybe we should actually get round to it ;) So, what do we vote for, there's the plethora of Wetherspoons pubs, but thursdays poses curry night and very packaed pubs there, there's the Yates, that might be quiet, don't know, not been there on a thursday, there's the Fat Cat (would definately be packed, but there would be good beer, at least) and well, what other suggestions have we got?
Cheers,
Brett
On Friday 12 December 2003 09:56, Brett Parker wrote:
On 2003-12-12 09:38:00 +0000 Graham Trott gt@pobox.com wrote:
The ritual gripe over the cost of beer and the lamentable service at the Forum.
Which reminds me, where shall we shift it to, we've been threatening for long enough, maybe we should actually get round to it ;)
Nah, wouldn't that spoil all the fun? What else would we have to talk about?
I guess you've just set yourself up to recommend somewhere. As long as there's nearby parking I'll follow meekly.
-- GT
On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 10:05:16AM +0000, Graham Trott wrote:
On Friday 12 December 2003 09:56, Brett Parker wrote:
Which reminds me, where shall we shift it to, we've been threatening for long enough, maybe we should actually get round to it ;)
Nah, wouldn't that spoil all the fun? What else would we have to talk about?
I guess you've just set yourself up to recommend somewhere. As long as there's nearby parking I'll follow meekly.
I guess we want somewhere with
* Good beer * nearby cheap or free parking * wireless networking ;) * vicinity of the train station? (i presume that the buses are still worse than useless) * adequate table and chair space
Now, to deal with this effectively perhaps we should have a "scouting mission" around a few likely establishments in central Norwich where we bring with us a laptop running kismet and try beer in each of the establishments we visit. This should help us to try and narrow down a suitable venue all while trying not to get into trouble for "drunk and disorderly" or anything covered by the computer misuse act.
Adam
On 12 Dec 2003, at 11:58, adam@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
I guess we want somewhere with
- Good beer
- nearby cheap or free parking
- wireless networking ;)
- vicinity of the train station? (i presume that the buses are still
worse than useless)
- adequate table and chair space
Now, to deal with this effectively perhaps we should have a "scouting mission" around a few likely establishments in central Norwich where we bring with us a laptop running kismet and try beer in each of the establishments we visit. This should help us to try and narrow down a suitable venue all while trying not to get into trouble for "drunk and disorderly" or anything covered by the computer misuse act.
As far as I know.. the only wifi place I know is the Cafe Java on Surrey Street. Also there is Battlenet as well but then again. It would be too much of a 'geek' place ;) We would like the local pub do we? ;)
I'm not sure about Riverside.. that seems to be a nice spot but no wifi access?
C
On Friday 12 December 2003 11:58, adam@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
I guess we want somewhere with
- Good beer
- nearby cheap or free parking
- wireless networking ;)
- vicinity of the train station? (i presume that the buses are still worse
than useless)
- adequate table and chair space
Now, to deal with this effectively perhaps we should have a "scouting mission" around a few likely establishments in central Norwich where we bring with us a laptop running kismet and try beer in each of the establishments we visit. This should help us to try and narrow down a suitable venue all while trying not to get into trouble for "drunk and disorderly" or anything covered by the computer misuse act.
Adam
Re wi-fi, is it possible to use one laptop as a wireless hub, e.g. by fitting it with two interfaces? Thereby sharing the £6/hour cost and making it worthwhile using a PDA? Is there a simpler way? Do we need external access at all? Not many of us turn up with laptops anyway, so would more do so if we could communicate?
Re the Forum, I don't mind paying over the odds for a drink once a month, but the small table size is a problem if much kit is brought along.
-- GT
Now, to deal with this effectively perhaps we should have a "scouting mission" around a few likely establishments in central Norwich where we bring with us a laptop running kismet and try beer in each of the establishments we visit. This should help us to try and narrow down a suitable venue all while trying not to get into trouble for "drunk and disorderly" or anything covered by the computer misuse act.
Adam
Re wi-fi, is it possible to use one laptop as a wireless hub, e.g. by fitting it with two interfaces? Thereby sharing the £6/hour cost and making it worthwhile using a PDA? Is there a simpler way? Do we need external access at all? Not many of us turn up with laptops anyway, so would more do so if we could communicate?
Re the Forum, I don't mind paying over the odds for a drink once a month, but the small table size is a problem if much kit is brought along.
Could be a problem in any pub? My other concern would be the amount of smoke.
I have been thinking about this quite a lot recently, especially having wi-fi access. I believe there are several pubs in Norwich with wi-fi access, including the Unthank Arms which has big upstairs room. Have not yet had time, tuits etc to enquire further.
I posted some links recently about wi-fi access and, AFAIR, there is a list on The Cloud (possibly http://www.thecloud.net - I am currently on webmail, at work, it is very slow and the browser is tied down so that I cannot open a second window to check the url or look back at ALUG list archives).
But, I do recall that there is a pub on Timber Hill which is listed as a wi-fi hotspot. No idea ATM of which pub or what the beer is like (which is not an issue for me anyway, having consumed my lifetime's share very rapidly about 11 years ago :-)
Will try and post again later with more info
Syd
I posted some links recently about wi-fi access and, AFAIR, there is a list on The Cloud (possibly http://www.thecloud.net -
[...]
But, I do recall that there is a pub on Timber Hill which is listed as a wi-fi hotspot. No idea ATM of which pub or what the beer is like
[...]
Will try and post again later with more info
This is what I was thinking of: link to a search of My Cloud hotspots in the NR postcode area:
http://www.mycloud.net/locator.php?pp=NR
The pub is the Gardener's Arms but there (IIRC) eight others listed in Norwich itself plus there are places not isted here included several previously mentioned (e.g. Cafe Java, Starbucks, Unthank Arms).
Syd
On 2003-12-12 12:34:46 +0000 Graham Trott gt@pobox.com wrote:
Re wi-fi, is it possible to use one laptop as a wireless hub, e.g. by fitting it with two interfaces?
Sounds like a job for Brett's wireless+IR hub. Build it Brett!
Personally, I'm not sure how much of a plus network access would be. Are we meeting to socialise, discuss things, etc, or to gather around computers and look at web sites? I think I've only brought the laptop to one of the evening meetings, as they're not ideal for hacking.
Personally, I'm not sure how much of a plus network access would be. Are we meeting to socialise, discuss things, etc, or to gather around computers and look at web sites?
I agree. I wasn't specific enough when I was posting yesterday - I've been thinking about where to get wi-fi (or other) access for Norwich *sunday* meetings.
Wi-fi at the evening meetings might be a bonus but not an essential IMHO.
Personally, I like the Forum for a variety of reasons but have no problem if people want to use somewhere else. And it is great to see that the meetings are starting to acquire their own momentum as they become a regular fixture.
My main suggestion is that we avoid too much hopping around if we can - I'd prefer it if any explorations can be a separate thing from the regular second-thursday meets until a different venue is chosen (if one is chosen).
Syd
Hi,
On 13 Dec 2003, at 12:45, Syd Hancock wrote:
I agree. I wasn't specific enough when I was posting yesterday - I've been thinking about where to get wi-fi (or other) access for Norwich *sunday* meetings.
Wi-fi at the evening meetings might be a bonus but not an essential IMHO.
Squares on Riverside apparently has wireless access. I don't know if it costs or how much, but then it shouldn't be too difficult to proxy a connection and share it, so the likey £5/hour wouldn't be too expensive.
A.
Squares on Riverside apparently has wireless access. I don't know if it costs or how much, but then it shouldn't be too difficult to proxy a connection and share it, so the likey £5/hour wouldn't be too expensive.
Also, looking again at the link posted yesterday to 'My Cloud' (hrmm, dreadful name) there is a place called Cafe Maximo Bar on Upper King Street which could be a pleasant place.[*]
But, as others have said, it all depends what we want from an eevening meeting. And, heresy tho' it may be to some, cost and quality of beer is not necessarily always the most crucial factor :-)
Syd
[*] See it's my namby-pamby middle-class half showing itself again - 15 years ago I was playing pool every night in rough south london pubs but thankfully those days have passed. 'Gimme five, I'm still alive, ain't no luck, I learned to duck...'
On 13 Dec 2003, at 13:09, Andrew Savory wrote:
Squares on Riverside apparently has wireless access. I don't know if it costs or how much, but then it shouldn't be too difficult to proxy a connection and share it, so the likey £5/hour wouldn't be too expensive.
How long does ALUG meet last? I do know that Squares or all of Riverside gets extremely popular on thursday? (Students night I think it is?)
C
On Sat, 2003-12-13 at 12:45, Syd Hancock wrote:
I agree. I wasn't specific enough when I was posting yesterday - I've been thinking about where to get wi-fi (or other) access for Norwich *sunday* meetings.
What about the UEA library? Its got wifi access on one of its floors and it a kind of public library(anyones allowed in but only UEA student can leave with books). Also parking is avalible in the main car park. Maybe the wifi is useble in the bar, its only 200m from library so it should be.
My main suggestion is that we avoid too much hopping around if we can - I'd prefer it if any explorations can be a separate thing from the regular second-thursday meets until a different venue is chosen (if one is chosen).
I agree it's nice to have one set meeting date and time.
- Dennis Dryden
On 13 Dec 2003, at 18:01, Dennis Dryden wrote:
What about the UEA library? Its got wifi access on one of its floors and it a kind of public library(anyones allowed in but only UEA student can leave with books). Also parking is avalible in the main car park. Maybe the wifi is useble in the bar, its only 200m from library so it should be.
Not too sure about that. I believe wifi is only restricted to the 2nd/3rd/4th floor (I can't remember) of the library. There are many across the campus. You just have to find them ;)
C
On Friday 12 Dec 2003 11:58 am, adam@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
I guess we want somewhere with
- Good beer
- nearby cheap or free parking
- wireless networking ;)
- vicinity of the train station? (i presume that the buses are still worse
than useless)
- adequate table and chair space
And quiet like in no music. Not that I'm averse to music in a pub but I do hate it if I'm trying to talk in a group and this is what evening meets are all about. HHI as oposed to HCI.
Also I'm going to make a real effort in the new year to try harder to make these meetings, the one I have made it to was extrreemly enjoyable.
Cheers, BJ
On Sat, Dec 13, 2003 at 12:48:23PM +0000, John Woodard wrote:
On Friday 12 Dec 2003 11:58 am, adam@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
I guess we want somewhere with
- Good beer
- nearby cheap or free parking
- wireless networking ;)
- vicinity of the train station? (i presume that the buses are still worse
than useless)
- adequate table and chair space
And quiet like in no music. Not that I'm averse to music in a pub but I do hate it if I'm trying to talk in a group and this is what evening meets are all about. HHI as oposed to HCI.
Oh god, yeah I agree with that.
ISTR the pub that used to be called the Reindeer on Dereham road had plenty of space, cheap decent beer and no music? I think it got taken over a few years back though, possibly by a chain? Main problem with that place would be that is quite a distance out of the city.
Adam
On 2003-12-13 13:19:38 +0000 adam@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
ISTR the pub that used to be called the Reindeer on Dereham road had plenty of space, cheap decent beer and no music?
Bought by Firkin and became Finnesko and Firkin. I think it's reverted to Reindeer now. On Dereham Road, just outside Inner Ring Road (opposite side of centre to railway station). Not been in there for 5 years, IIRC.
On Sunday 14 December 2003 5:14 pm, MJ Ray wrote:
On 2003-12-13 13:19:38 +0000 adam@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
ISTR the pub that used to be called the Reindeer on Dereham road had plenty of space, cheap decent beer and no music?
Bought by Firkin and became Finnesko and Firkin. I think it's reverted to Reindeer now. On Dereham Road, just outside Inner Ring Road (opposite side of centre to railway station). Not been in there for 5 years, IIRC.
Nearly....It's now called the finnesko (which is a type of boot worn in arctic explorations just in case anyone is interested). Sorry for being off topic, but no-one I know seems to have an answer for this...
What has happened to the firkin pubs? All the ones I've seen have dropped the '& firkin' from the name. Is the chain dead and they've sold all the pubs? Is it a cunning ploy to make them seem less like a chain by changing the name? Anyone?
BenE
----------------------------
I'm getting pissed for christmas, Just like the rest of the year, There's no future in this lonely world, So I might as well have a beer
Peter & The Test Tube Babes / GBH
On 15 Dec 2003, at 00:26, BenEBoy wrote:
Nearly....It's now called the finnesko (which is a type of boot worn in arctic explorations just in case anyone is interested). Sorry for being off topic, but no-one I know seems to have an answer for this...
Boots made from Reindeer skin specifically - a connection with the previous name of the pub.
http://www.norwichcamra.freeserve.co.uk/brewery/finnesko.htm
What has happened to the firkin pubs? All the ones I've seen have dropped the '& firkin' from the name. Is the chain dead and they've sold all the pubs? Is it a cunning ploy to make them seem less like a chain by changing the name? Anyone?
The firkin chain became synonymous with over-expansion - which led to their downfall, thank goodness.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1627795.stm
A.
On 2003-12-15 00:26:27 +0000 BenEBoy mail@psychoferret.freeserve.co.uk wrote:
What has happened to the firkin pubs?
A web search for "firkin pub" returned http://www.armfield.freeserve.co.uk/travel/firkin.htm on the first page. It says that Punch bought them, stopped brewing and sold on to Bass in a fit of bizarrity. I think it's a choice between that and the Laurel Hogshead "review" as the most hated pub change of the last decade.
Norwich CAMRA know http://www.norwichcamra.freeserve.co.uk/brewery/finnesko.htm
On Friday 12 Dec 2003 9:56 am, Brett Parker wrote:
On 2003-12-12 09:38:00 +0000 Graham Trott gt@pobox.com wrote:
The ritual gripe over the cost of beer and the lamentable service at the Forum.
Which reminds me, where shall we shift it to, we've been threatening for long enough, maybe we should actually get round to it ;) So, what do we vote for, there's the plethora of Wetherspoons pubs, but thursdays poses curry night and very packaed pubs there, there's the Yates, that might be quiet, don't know, not been there on a thursday, there's the Fat Cat (would definately be packed, but there would be good beer, at least) and well, what other suggestions have we got?
Cheers,
Brett
Personaly, as I am driving, beer is not an issue. The forum may be relatively expensive but there is always plenty of room and it is quiet enough to be able to carry on a civilised conversation.
Ian
On Friday 12 December 2003 9:56 am, Brett Parker wrote:
On 2003-12-12 09:38:00 +0000 Graham Trott gt@pobox.com wrote:
The ritual gripe over the cost of beer and the lamentable service at the Forum.
Which reminds me, where shall we shift it to, we've been threatening for long enough, maybe we should actually get round to it ;) So, what do we vote for, there's the plethora of Wetherspoons pubs, but thursdays poses curry night and very packaed pubs there, there's the Yates, that might be quiet, don't know, not been there on a thursday, there's the Fat Cat (would definately be packed, but there would be good beer, at least) and well, what other suggestions have we got?
The fat cat has been very quiet the last few fridays I've been in. Thursdays are dead according to a mate of mine. Unfortunately it fails on the parking and rail station criteria.
Within casual strolling distance of the forum there is the sir garnet walsey and the coach and horses. The former is under new management since the last time I went in and is a bit more reputable now (apparantly). The C&H might be a safer bet. The mischief on fye bridge is totally dead during the week (although IIRC they have cheap beer offers on thursdays so might be a bit fuller. I'm guessing). Plus they have lots of corners to hide in. Parking might be hard (I don't drive so I can't comment really). Anything down prince of wales street is right out IMO.
Ignoring the trendy bars, everything small and the 'local' pubs that's about all I can think of, as suitable, in the city centre at least.
I second the call for a pub crawl^W^W^W^Wfact finding mission (and I'd prolly turn up too)
BenE
----------------------------
I'm getting pissed for christmas, Just like the rest of the year, There's no future in this lonely world, So I might as well have a beer
Peter & The Test Tube Babes / GBH
On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 09:38, Graham Trott wrote:
Those present:
Mark (representing the Kings Lynn section) Bryce (Oz accountant-turned-programmer, currently doing OU) James (gissa job) Matt (first time - hope you come again) Lindsay, accompanying Matt Paul (<quote>"That bald-headed b*****d over there"</quote>) Jonathan Brett Graham (talks too much - the result of years of home-working)
Subjects under discussion included (one end of the table only):
The ritual gripe over the cost of beer and the lamentable service at the Forum. Why does sound stop working? What is a scripting language? (Discuss) Kernel security configuration (if I got that right) - a real tech question from Matt. Java rules / Java sucks. Why is it so difficult to get a job in IT? Is an IDE a Good Thing?
Syd was missed but his cold wasn't.
See you all next month
It was great to put some faces to names. And I'm sure I know Bryce from somewhere else, but I can't picture it and didn't want to make a fool of myself by asking.
Kernel security config was indeed my question du jour, and I was supposed to post my kernel config to the list for Jonathan to peruse, but I haven't figured out how to get it yet. My server is running Mandrake 9.1 and doesn't have the kernel source installed, and although it's Linux, I have an aversion to installing stuff on production servers if they're not broken already.
My desktop is Mandrake 9.0 still (doesn't have grsec built in) and isn't running the secure kernel either. Anyone know how to unpack an RPM without actually installing it or running into dependencies?
Matt
On 2003-12-12 21:15:19 +0000 Matt Parker matt@mpcontracting.co.uk wrote:
Anyone know how to unpack an RPM without actually installing it or running into dependencies?
Used to be rpmextr, I think. Basically, rpm is based on cpio somehow, so there are rpm2targz perl scripts out there if you can't do it any other way.
And at the other end, topics included : Kernel oops. PID properties of child processes. micro-mechanisms on the same die as a processor. Message passing over a PCI bus. Anti patent and java rants...
Regards, Paul.
On Friday 12 December 2003 9:38 am, Graham Trott wrote:
Subjects under discussion included (one end of the table only):
On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 21:39, Paul wrote:
And at the other end, topics included : Kernel oops. PID properties of child processes. micro-mechanisms on the same die as a processor. Message passing over a PCI bus. Anti patent and java rants...
I look forward to engaging you on the topic of Java at the next meeting. Do you choose swords or pistols ;-)
Matt
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