The message <bdfoto%40tiscali.co.uk$80.47.84.100$.000401c5f41a$2ccaea70$64542f50@bdf2> from "Bob Dove" <bdfoto@tiscali.co.uk> contains these words:

Hi Guys,

1. Summary: GUIs are good if you want them, the command line is better if you know what you are doing.

2. Icons on the screen? Nah, folders with code names! (?)

3. 'Blind' touch typing a command line - or equally blind movement of a mouse cursor? (My problem is that my keyboard is dyslexic and I don't think you can run a spell check on a command line).

Well that's how things should be. Consumer choice? Tory Blair seems to be somewhat chummy with BG (who to be fair is distributing some of his absolutely unspendable wealth on good works as opposed to poncing (am I allowed to say that?) holiday accommodation from people (who may or may not need favours or perhaps a title) in exchange for a contribution to 'charity.' Prudence and Charity seem to do well with our chums in 10 & 11. I'm a bit worried however about our nuclear submarines running on 'doze!

'Specially if AB Jonah decides to play Minesweeper or Doom on it.

What I think has to be taken into consideration is that when Joe Bloggs goes into his local 'puter shop on his first buy, inevitably he'll go away with the box with the spec that just covers what he said he wanted to do when he went into said shop (it's for Joe junior to do his homework) - which probably isn't what he really really wanted to do which is run Tomb Raider.

See - I was right. TBH, I'd never heard of Linux then, assuming it was readily available. Up to that time and beyond I used CP/M on an Amstrad PCW. Not exactly test-shopping, but before I took the plunge I found a pootermag which did a comparison of branded PCs available and sorted out a shortlist of three and submitted them to my brother, who had been into computer accounting for years. (Apricot box, but I've no idea what OS.) He approved the choices.

But he will almost surely have a box with 'doze pre-loaded. And when he loads the software (apps) of his choice it will barely run - but in happy pointy-clicky ignorance he'll be happy 'til his HDD is absolutely full of 'recyclables' and 'temporary' internet files.

I remember going into (on the face of it) just such a shop in Needham Market a while ago. I spoke to a bloke called Roger, who asked me what I wanted a computer *FOR*. I told him: word-processing and graphics. He was pleased that I knew what I wanted it for - most people, he said, wanted a computer but really had no idea why. He explained that the business always used the best internals, so I might be able to find somewhere cheaper, but not, he assured me, better. We went through what was needed, and why, and he later posted me a breakdown of all the components - 386SX, Motherboard, huge (40 MB) HD, lots of RAM (4 MB), 3œ" flopy drive, 5Œ" floppy drive and one of the first SVGA monitors, Star LC-200 Colour 24-pin dot matrix printer, DOS 5, Windows 3.0, Page Plus 1, and Locoscript PC. Oh, and a LocoLink to connect to the PCW, and a UPS. Roger insisted that I would need Windows 'these days', however, I'd love to meet him again and tell him that the only thing I used it for was to run Paintbrush, and even that I dumped in favour of the DOS program 'Neopaint'. The price was £1,5000 or thereabouts, and he tried *VERY* hard to persuade me that I didn't need the UPS, but I knew better... I submitted the list to my brother, who told me that it was about £500 less than any comparable machine off the shelf. accordingly, I bought it, and Roger delivered it a few days later and as was his custom (at no charge for his time!), loaded the software. Halfway through loading Windows we had a short power outage, and he had to start all over again... He conceded that I did need the UPS, and that he really ought to have trusted me on that and used it during the installation of the software. I told him that our supply was overhead, and we were on the very end of a spur. When the farmer further up the line was milking, and the garage fired-up the big TIG welder, the voltage could drop to 150, then rise to 180, making the UPS a necessity. (When of course, the Amstrad would take umbrage and bomb out.)

Now I know you guys are different and if you are running hardware stores you'll possibly be loading Linux! I'm sure on an equal footing, a good sales person could train Joe to operate either 'doze or 'ux, but there isn't an equal footing or a level playing field. There's a dealer margin on 'doze - if it pre-installed, it still ain't free! I don't know if you guys do any test shopping? I used to wok for a retail chain and often would go into competitors shops to see if they were better salesmen than me and my crew. I still go into PC World and ask questions - which still bring uninformed answers. 'You don't need to know that - just point and click! Linux? What's that? We supply XP Home. We don't sell Macintosh!' However, I have seen boxed Linux in one stationary store - horrendous price. Well, 'it's complicated and the instruction manual is expensive!' Unless Joe develops an interest in alternative O/S - he will just never know there are alternatives. If he gets bitten, he may note that alongside the multitude of magazines on the rack in WH, there are a few Mac and Linux titles. he may even buy one and find the cover disk doesn't run in 'doze. I believe however there are other Euro governments who insist gov business is conducted in 'ux?

Most of this government's departments, along with universities seemed to run Unix at the time I got interested, but I must admit I only learnt about this a few years later, when I worked at a small engineering firm which also serviced 'ix and 'ux machines, and ran theirs on Lasermoon's Linux FT, of which last I bought a copy, with apps. (6 CDs, which I still have.)

So what's my point? Linux will not become the obvious and popular alternative to 'doze until your average sales person in the 'puter store can demonstrate that it is equal to 'doze in every aspect that a store browser (window shopper) can get touchy feely pointy clicky with display goods and see that it works. Nobody but nobody will go into your average 'puter store and start typing command lines (excepting you guys of course!) It won't become my replacement until I can run QuarkXPress (and I mean QuarkXPress 'cos it is an interchange format still) and Photoshop CS2. Both of which run beautifully from point and click icons on my desktop!

Well, as long as the profit margins on selling M$ and Mac software remain so high, they're not going to push Linux, even if they know about it and prefer it. And to beat about the head a point I made a few days ago, until the various distros converge enough to permit all new Linux apps to run in any one of them, it's gong to be an uphill struggle to persuade Joe Public that Linux is a serious platform.

I think that may be six-pennorth!

NB: I have enjoyed the varied replies to this thread!

Well, this one must rais your tanner to a bob... -- Tony http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/