Running ubuntu 7.04 - wishing to install vym-1.10.0 (came out sept 2007).
I can only assume that it wasn't early enough to be included in gutsy... had a look in the archives and was hoping i could install gutsy. As it seems a number of folk have had problems with gutsy i thought i would just stay with feisty [which has been fine with no problems so far]!
I'd be grateful if someone could check that i'm doing the correct procedure!
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=127802&package_id=...
downloaded to desktop the file vym-1.10.0-18.i586.rpm [or should i use vym-1.10.0tar.bz2 and not convert to debian?]
installed alien
in terminal type $alien -c vym-1.10.0-18.i586.rpm # -c tells it to remove any installation or removal scripts [Should then have a .deb package?]
$sudo dpkg vym-1.10.0-18.i586.deb
[it can't be that easy - i wanted to check before i mess up somehow! What about other dependencies]
thanks james
On Tue, 2008-01-01 at 16:49 +0000, James Freer wrote:
in terminal type $alien -c vym-1.10.0-18.i586.rpm # -c tells it to remove any installation or removal scripts [Should then have a .deb package?]
$sudo dpkg vym-1.10.0-18.i586.deb
[it can't be that easy - i wanted to check before i mess up somehow! What about other dependencies]
That might work, or you might be better off looking around the Ubuntu Hardy Repository for a newer version (1.08 in gutsy as you suspected). Alien should have resolved the dependencies so if there are any that are unmet it should get picked up when you try and install it.
What I would try first is "sudo dpkg --no-act -i vym-1.10.0-18.i586.deb" which will dry run the installation without actually changing anything..if that looks like it is going to work you should be safe.
If that fails because it is built against a newer library or something then build it from the tar.bz2 and install as per the included instructions.
PS. Gutsy isn't the troubled release that some people on the forums would have you believe..this basically happens every time there is a new release..a small vocal minority shout about how the upgrade broke on their machine, usually without any specifics and usually because of something they either did or failed to do. What you don't get so much of is reports from the other 90% of people for whom the upgrade went perfectly, so looking at the forums it is easy to get trapped by a bias towards only reporting failure.
Also if you intend to upgrade your box to the next release then the supported path is via upgrading to Gutsy first anyway as Hardy will most likely only support upgrades from Gutsy and Dapper LTS
Wayne Stallwood wrote:
On Tue, 2008-01-01 at 16:49 +0000, James Freer wrote:
in terminal type $alien -c vym-1.10.0-18.i586.rpm # -c tells it to remove any installation or removal scripts [Should then have a .deb package?]
$sudo dpkg vym-1.10.0-18.i586.deb
[it can't be that easy - i wanted to check before i mess up somehow! What about other dependencies]
That might work, or you might be better off looking around the Ubuntu Hardy Repository for a newer version (1.08 in gutsy as you suspected). Alien should have resolved the dependencies so if there are any that are unmet it should get picked up when you try and install it.
What I would try first is "sudo dpkg --no-act -i vym-1.10.0-18.i586.deb" which will dry run the installation without actually changing anything..if that looks like it is going to work you should be safe.
If that fails because it is built against a newer library or something then build it from the tar.bz2 and install as per the included instructions.
PS. Gutsy isn't the troubled release that some people on the forums would have you believe..this basically happens every time there is a new release..a small vocal minority shout about how the upgrade broke on their machine, usually without any specifics and usually because of something they either did or failed to do. What you don't get so much of is reports from the other 90% of people for whom the upgrade went perfectly, so looking at the forums it is easy to get trapped by a bias towards only reporting failure.
Also if you intend to upgrade your box to the next release then the supported path is via upgrading to Gutsy first anyway as Hardy will most likely only support upgrades from Gutsy and Dapper LTS
Thanks Wayne. Thing is with VYM it isn't in the archive for gutsy or proposed hardy [unless i missed it!]. Surprising when it is in SuSe and now considered a good application compared with MindManager. However, ubuntu i suppose may not consider it worth including as it's rather specialised.
james
On 01 Jan 19:22, James Freer wrote:
Thanks Wayne. Thing is with VYM it isn't in the archive for gutsy or proposed hardy [unless i missed it!]. Surprising when it is in SuSe and now considered a good application compared with MindManager. However, ubuntu i suppose may not consider it worth including as it's rather specialised.
Well, it appears to be available in debian unstable... so you could try installing the deb from: http://the.earth.li/debian/pool/main/v/vym/vym_1.10.0-1_i386.deb
1.8.1 is in stable and testing.
You could mess with /etc/apt/preferences and add unstable to things and have lots of fun with tags etc, but it's probably easier for one package to just install the deb and keep an eye out for updates/security alerts.
Hope that helps,
Brett Parker wrote:
On 01 Jan 19:22, James Freer wrote:
Thanks Wayne. Thing is with VYM it isn't in the archive for gutsy or proposed hardy [unless i missed it!]. Surprising when it is in SuSe and now considered a good application compared with MindManager. However, ubuntu i suppose may not consider it worth including as it's rather specialised.
Well, it appears to be available in debian unstable... so you could try installing the deb from: http://the.earth.li/debian/pool/main/v/vym/vym_1.10.0-1_i386.deb
1.8.1 is in stable and testing.
You could mess with /etc/apt/preferences and add unstable to things and have lots of fun with tags etc, but it's probably easier for one package to just install the deb and keep an eye out for updates/security alerts.
Hope that helps,
It does - i thought ubuntu would be a bit more ahead than debian... spent a couple of hours looking through ubuntu repositories this afternoon. I didn't expect debian to have it - they are supposed to be slower at upgrades but more stable i understood. It just happens i'm interested in trying this 1.10.1 version out. I might be on the verge of switching to debian or suse!
I only used ubuntu to start with as i had a book on it and folk seem to recommend it more than other distros.
thanks james
On Tue, 2008-01-01 at 21:16 +0000, James Freer wrote:
It does - i thought ubuntu would be a bit more ahead than debian... spent a couple of hours looking through ubuntu repositories this afternoon. I didn't expect debian to have it - they are supposed to be slower at upgrades but more stable i understood. It just happens i'm interested in trying this 1.10.1 version out. I might be on the verge of switching to debian or suse!
Personally for the sake of just one app I would do as Brett suggested and just grab the deb from the link he provided and try and install it (with my instructions for a dry run first if you are that worried)
Also the clue as to why Debian is further ahead is in the name of the repository the 1.10 version comes from. Ubuntu won't generally increment version numbers of things between releases as the aim is for the environment to remain reasonably static until you intentionally upgrade the distro. 1.10 was too late for Gutsy as by that point Gutsy was frozen for release testing.
Debian on the other hand has a completely different release structure, which means that often you can pick up a more recent package in Debian unstable.
On Tue, 2008-01-01 at 19:22 +0000, James Freer wrote:
Thanks Wayne. Thing is with VYM it isn't in the archive for gutsy or proposed hardy [unless i missed it!]. Surprising when it is in SuSe and now considered a good application compared with MindManager. However, ubuntu i suppose may not consider it worth including as it's rather specialised.
Erm it is most certainly in Gutsy and I am 90% sure it is in Hardy as well, I have it installed here and it came from the Universe repro, you do have universe enabled don't you ?
As I said though it is 1.8.1 in Gutsy.
Wayne Stallwood wrote:
On Tue, 2008-01-01 at 19:22 +0000, James Freer wrote:
Thanks Wayne. Thing is with VYM it isn't in the archive for gutsy or proposed hardy [unless i missed it!]. Surprising when it is in SuSe and now considered a good application compared with MindManager. However, ubuntu i suppose may not consider it worth including as it's rather specialised.
Erm it is most certainly in Gutsy and I am 90% sure it is in Hardy as well, I have it installed here and it came from the Universe repro, you do have universe enabled don't you ?
As I said though it is 1.8.1 in Gutsy.
Yes as 1.8.1 - but 1.10.1 was a big improvement having looked at their website. Ubuntu seem to be behind on this particular app. It just happens that i'm particularly keen to try it out - 1.8.1 is poor. I'm surprised that debian have it as it is supposed to be slow at producing upgrades. I'll load debian on my test pc and give it a try.
james
On 01 Jan 21:09, James Freer wrote:
Yes as 1.8.1 - but 1.10.1 was a big improvement having looked at their website. Ubuntu seem to be behind on this particular app. It just happens that i'm particularly keen to try it out - 1.8.1 is poor. I'm surprised that debian have it as it is supposed to be slow at producing upgrades. I'll load debian on my test pc and give it a try.
Do I take it that you are not aware of the ubuntu release process? Basically it takes a frozen version of Debian Testing (which is Debian Unstable with a 10 day bug-free lag), then the core parts of Ubuntu are upgraded to whatever version they want to be. But anything that's in the universe/multiverse, IIRC, is mostly not entirely supported and is best effort... Looking around, it appears also that 1.10.0 is available in Hardy, so it *might* be worth trying that package:
http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/v/vym/vym_1.10.0-1ubuntu1_i38...
Hardy is basically tracking debian unstable at the moment. The reason that it's a slightly different package name is that the MotU change the Maintainer field so that it is the ubuntu MotU group instead.
The *reason* people think that debian is "slow at producing upgrades" is because you're making the assumption that there is only the "stable" release - the stable release is becoming more frequent, but it's still "when it's ready", however, you'll find that most debian developers are running either testing or unstable, with unstable being quite amazingly up to date on some software, but it has less testing at that point. There's also an experimental repository - but that's usually for large changes that you only want people to test that are ready for everything to break.
Ubuntu and Debian share a package format, so you should (quite easily) be able to install Debian packages on a Ubuntu system and vice-versa, using dpkg -i <filename.deb>, hence suggesting just installing the .deb file earlier - much quicker than installing debian ;)
Thanks,
Brett Parker wrote:
On 01 Jan 21:09, James Freer wrote:
Yes as 1.8.1 - but 1.10.1 was a big improvement having looked at their website. Ubuntu seem to be behind on this particular app. It just happens that i'm particularly keen to try it out - 1.8.1 is poor. I'm surprised that debian have it as it is supposed to be slow at producing upgrades. I'll load debian on my test pc and give it a try.
Do I take it that you are not aware of the ubuntu release process? Basically it takes a frozen version of Debian Testing (which is Debian Unstable with a 10 day bug-free lag), then the core parts of Ubuntu are upgraded to whatever version they want to be. But anything that's in the universe/multiverse, IIRC, is mostly not entirely supported and is best effort... Looking around, it appears also that 1.10.0 is available in Hardy, so it *might* be worth trying that package:
http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/v/vym/vym_1.10.0-1ubuntu1_i38...
Hardy is basically tracking debian unstable at the moment. The reason that it's a slightly different package name is that the MotU change the Maintainer field so that it is the ubuntu MotU group instead.
The *reason* people think that debian is "slow at producing upgrades" is because you're making the assumption that there is only the "stable" release - the stable release is becoming more frequent, but it's still "when it's ready", however, you'll find that most debian developers are running either testing or unstable, with unstable being quite amazingly up to date on some software, but it has less testing at that point. There's also an experimental repository - but that's usually for large changes that you only want people to test that are ready for everything to break.
Ubuntu and Debian share a package format, so you should (quite easily) be able to install Debian packages on a Ubuntu system and vice-versa, using dpkg -i <filename.deb>, hence suggesting just installing the .deb file earlier - much quicker than installing debian ;)
Thanks,
I don't fully follow the release process... seems to me ubuntu [linuxmint,gnewsense and freespire] copy a lot of hardwork done by debian. So far from what i've learnt i would have thought they'd be better off producing a version carefully tested annually without bugs. I couldn't get 6.10 to mount a floppy drive - in Places it produced two [and on both machines i tried]. I tried 6.04 and 7.04 and worked fine.
I didn't look in the right place somehow in the ubuntu archives! thanks
BUT when i install it comes up with "Error: Dependency is not satisfiable: libc6"
Next step? install with --force-conflicts
libc6 is installed
james
On Wednesday 02 January 2008 10:53, James Freer wrote:
BUT when i install it comes up with "Error: Dependency is not satisfiable: libc6"
Quite possible if VYM has been linked to a more recent version of libc6.. The dependency warning should have given you a version number to check..
[Tip] dpkg -l | grep libc6
Next step? install with --force-conflicts
Not unless you want a broken system (or at least, VYM). The simplest way round the problem is to `apt-get source vym` and build the package on _your_ system. You may need to do an `apt-get build-dep vym` to ensure all the build dependencies are installed (or you could go with pbuilder).
Regards, Paul.
On Wed, 2008-01-02 at 10:53 +0000, James Freer wrote:
I don't fully follow the release process... seems to me ubuntu [linuxmint,gnewsense and freespire] copy a lot of hardwork done by debian.
You are sort of missing the point of OSS, nobody is stealing anyone else's hard work unless they are releasing modified code and not making the source available. Ubuntu is based on Debian, PClinuxOS is based on Mandriva which in itself started as a KDE fork of Redhat (ISTR). I am sure plenty of Ubuntu code finds it's way back into Debian, hell plenty of Suse/Novell code is in Ubuntu in the shape of Compiz, the "copying" is an essential part of the evolution of OSS.
Wayne Stallwood ALUGlist@digimatic.co.uk wrote:
[...] I am sure plenty of Ubuntu code finds it's way back into Debian, [...]
Are you? Why?
This has been a controversial topic for at least a few years. I think Andrew Suffield posted a typical comment in May 2005:-
"Ubuntu considers it more effective to spend their time on PR to make people think they are giving stuff back, than to actually do it; it generates more 'goodwill', since most people won't bother to check." http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2005/05/msg01468.html
In July 2007, Lucas Nussbaum proposed trying to track this. The first results have just been linked at http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/blog/?p=271
That's 192 bugs, including 88 resolved. #354516 seems the oldest bug, filed about 675 days ago. In that time, there seem to have been about 100,000 bugs reported to debian, including about 50,000 fixed. (Sources: http://merkel.debian.org/~don/cgi/search.cgi?phrase=Delivered-To%3A+submit%4... http://merkel.debian.org/~don/cgi/search.cgi?phrase=fixed&search=search&... )
I don't know where to get the numbers for Ubuntu, but it seems that not much traffic is going between the two, compared to how much is going on in total. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ reports that it has 906 bugs fixed elsewhere - even if all of those are fixed in debian, that's still like 0.1% of bug traffic in the last two years.
This isn't to say that Ubuntu *isn't* giving back to debian. It's just to say that I can't assess it. I remember almost as many unhelpful actions done to debian by Ubuntu developers as helpful ones.
Regards,
James Freer jessejazza@yahoo.co.uk wrote: [...]
surprised that debian have it as it is supposed to be slow at producing upgrades. I'll load debian on my test pc and give it a try.
If you ever get tired of the lies and damn lies about your fellow LUGgers that help produce debian, then try some statistics like http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/blog/2005/04/14#2005-04-14-sarge-v-hoary
"we get 2829 packages newer in sarge, 79 packages newer in hoary than sarge, 496 packages present in hoary and sid but not sarge, and 427 packages not present in sid. So if you’re looking for pure currency, Debian’s still doing significantly better when it comes to universe." [I'm not aware of the numbers on more recent releases.]
debian has a bit more time between major stable releases than some commercial operations (but are they as stable? ;-) ), but the point releases and the upgrade availability (source or backports binaries) are usually pretty good.
Regards,
MJ Ray wrote:
James Freer jessejazza@yahoo.co.uk wrote: [...]
surprised that debian have it as it is supposed to be slow at producing upgrades. I'll load debian on my test pc and give it a try.
If you ever get tired of the lies and damn lies about your fellow LUGgers that help produce debian, then try some statistics like http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/blog/2005/04/14#2005-04-14-sarge-v-hoary
"we get 2829 packages newer in sarge, 79 packages newer in hoary than sarge, 496 packages present in hoary and sid but not sarge, and 427 packages not present in sid. So if you’re looking for pure currency, Debian’s still doing significantly better when it comes to universe." [I'm not aware of the numbers on more recent releases.]
debian has a bit more time between major stable releases than some commercial operations (but are they as stable? ;-) ), but the point releases and the upgrade availability (source or backports binaries) are usually pretty good.
Regards,
Well... that is the sort of deduction that i've made being a newbie to linux. Ubuntu got a real damning in a comparison with PCLinuxOS. I just bought a book on ubuntu and tried it as many claim it's the best distro!
james
On Wed, 2008-01-02 at 21:25 +0000, James Freer wrote:
Well... that is the sort of deduction that i've made being a newbie to linux. Ubuntu got a real damning in a comparison with PCLinuxOS.
It is a bit contradictory to your main grievance with Ubuntu being out of date given that PClinuxOS have only just gotten around to releasing a 2.6.22 kernel (literally a few days ago) which I have been running on Gutsy since the start of October. :)
it looks like your options are as follows
Follow MJR's advice and build YVM against your libc6 ( it really isn't as scary as it sounds)
Tell us the version of libc6 dpkg was asking for so we can see if Gutsy has it then you could upgrade to gutsy and install the package you have
Install a different distro that has a newer version of YVM, but then you may discover other things you don't like and it seems like a lot of work for just one App
I just bought a book on ubuntu and tried it as many claim it's the best distro!
TBH it is not unusual for newcomers to jump around Distros until they find a comfortable spot...I started on Suse, jumped between Mandrake/Mandriva (what PClinuxOS is based on) and redhat a bit, settled back on Suse and then about 2 years ago switched to Ubuntu. But I have never inferred that Ubuntu is the best distro..it just fits my desktop needs best at this point in time. For servers I tend to use Debian unless the customer/some 3rd party software demands enterprise versions of Redhat or Suse etc. The only thing I have suggested to new users in the past is that ubuntu may be a good choice as a fair few people in ALUG run it, it can in some cases make life a little easier than Debian IMO and the community around the ubuntuforums is quite active.
One advantage now is that with liveCD's being so common it is possible to try these things with little or no effort, just download PClinuxOS boot it up and see what you think.
Wayne Stallwood wrote:
it looks like your options are as follows
Follow MJR's advice and build YVM against your libc6 ( it really isn't as scary as it sounds)
Tell us the version of libc6 dpkg was asking for so we can see if Gutsy [a] has it then you could upgrade to gutsy and install the package you have
Ok so i'll give MJR's route a try!
a] dpkg -l | grep libc6 gave
j@j-desktop:~$ dpkg -l | grep libc6 ii libc6 2.5-0ubuntu14 GNU C Library: Shared libraries ii libc6-dev 2.5-0ubuntu14 GNU C Library: Development Libraries and Hea ii libc6-i686 2.5-0ubuntu14 GNU C Library: Shared libraries [i686 optimi
b] installed sudo aptitude install devscripts build-essential fakeroot
c] fetched the source downloaded vym_1.10.0.orig.tar.gz
d] extracted to desktop the folder vym-1.10.0
the next stage i didn't follow "build-dep"
james
James Freer jessejazza@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Ok so i'll give MJR's route a try!
Erm, it was Brett Parker who suggested building stuff. Don't blame me! Even then, I'm not sure he suggested the steps mentioned.
[...]
c] fetched the source downloaded vym_1.10.0.orig.tar.gz
You want all three of these:- http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/v/vym/vym_1.10.0.orig.tar.gz http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/v/vym/vym_1.10.0-1ubuntu1.dif... http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/v/vym/vym_1.10.0-1ubuntu1.dsc
One original tarball, one patch file (diff.gz) and one description.
Put them in one folder, then try dpkg-source -x vym_1.10.0-1ubuntu1.dsc cd vym-1.10.0 dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us -rfakeroot -b
and if ubuntu is anything like debian on this, it will either build a binary deb into the directory above or tell you what else to install.
Hope that helps,
MJ Ray wrote:
James Freer jessejazza@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Ok so i'll give MJR's route a try!
Erm, it was Brett Parker who suggested building stuff. Don't blame me! Even then, I'm not sure he suggested the steps mentioned.
[...]
c] fetched the source downloaded vym_1.10.0.orig.tar.gz
You want all three of these:- http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/v/vym/vym_1.10.0.orig.tar.gz http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/v/vym/vym_1.10.0-1ubuntu1.dif... http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/v/vym/vym_1.10.0-1ubuntu1.dsc
One original tarball, one patch file (diff.gz) and one description.
Put them in one folder, then try dpkg-source -x vym_1.10.0-1ubuntu1.dsc cd vym-1.10.0 dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us -rfakeroot -b
and if ubuntu is anything like debian on this, it will either build a binary deb into the directory above or tell you what else to install.
Hope that helps,
Think i follow - but how do i group them in the folder. Say i call the main folder jf-vym, subfolders should be the extracted vym_1.10.0.orig.tar.gz [i.e. folder vym-1.10.0], vym_1.10.0-1ubuntu1.diff.gz [i.e. file vym_1.10.0-1ubuntu1.diff] and file vym_1.10.0-1ubuntu1.dsc
Be grateful if you could explain the step cd vym-1.10.0 why change the directory?
thanks james
James Freer jessejazza@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
MJ Ray wrote:
Put them in one folder, then try dpkg-source -x vym_1.10.0-1ubuntu1.dsc cd vym-1.10.0 dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us -rfakeroot -b
and if ubuntu is anything like debian on this, it will either build a binary deb into the directory above or tell you what else to install.
Think i follow - but how do i group them in the folder. Say i call the main folder jf-vym, subfolders should be the extracted vym_1.10.0.orig.tar.gz [i.e. folder vym-1.10.0], vym_1.10.0-1ubuntu1.diff.gz [i.e. file vym_1.10.0-1ubuntu1.diff] and file vym_1.10.0-1ubuntu1.dsc
No. Just put the three files into one directory. Don't unpack the tarball or decompress the diff. dpkg-source will do that and mix it all together in the right way. Don't make a simple task complicated.
Be grateful if you could explain the step cd vym-1.10.0 why change the directory?
dpkg-buildpackage builds the package you're currently sitting in, by default at least. You might be able to use it another way.
Regards,
On Tuesday 01 January 2008 16:49, James Freer wrote:
Running ubuntu 7.04 - wishing to install vym-1.10.0 (came out sept 2007).
downloaded to desktop the file vym-1.10.0-18.i586.rpm [or should i use vym-1.10.0tar.bz2 and not convert to debian?]
What about grabbing the sources from Debian Sid and building it for your flavour of install - If it is already in ubuntu's repository, take it from there... That way, you get all the dependencies resolved and linked to the libraries installed on _your_ system rather than some RedHat/SuSE/Mandrake box.
Regards, Paul.
-
Brett Parker -
James Freer -
MJ Ray -
Paul -
Wayne Stallwood