Hi from another newbie!
Does anyone know anything about gimp? I can't get it to do even the simplest transformations. Trying to rotate a selection, for example, produces no result other than a lot of hard disk activity which appears quite rapidly to fill up the partition in use, whether home or root; the only way out that I have found is to log off and start again. Is this a known problem? I'm using Linux-Mandrake 6.1, the Macmillan distribution, on a Dell which has an Nvidia TNT2 graphics card.
On Fri, 18 Feb 2000, Doug Tulloch wrote:
Hi from another newbie!
Does anyone know anything about gimp?
Which version?
I can't get it to do even the simplest transformations. Trying to rotate a selection, for example, produces no result other than a lot of hard disk activity which appears quite rapidly to fill up the partition in use, whether home or root; the only way out that I have found is to log off and start again. Is this a known problem? I'm using Linux-Mandrake 6.1, the Macmillan distribution, on a Dell which has an Nvidia TNT2 graphics card.
Well, 1.0.4 is the latest(?) stable version and is as stable as a rock AFAIK. I've been using a cvs snapshot shortly after development version 1.1.16 was released and again it's pretty stable.
Perhaps you could tell us your gimp version, and any other relevant info (try gtk-config --version and tell us the result).
I can't get it to do even the simplest transformations. Trying to rotate a selection, for example, produces no result other than a lot of hard disk activity which appears quite rapidly to fill up the partition in use, whether home or root; the only way out that I have found is to log off and start again. Is this a known problem? I'm using Linux-Mandrake 6.1, the Macmillan distribution, on a Dell which has an Nvidia TNT2 graphics card.
Well, 1.0.4 is the latest(?) stable version and is as stable as a rock AFAIK. I've been using a cvs snapshot shortly after development version 1.1.16 was released and again it's pretty stable.
Perhaps you could tell us your gimp version, and any other relevant info (try gtk-config --version and tell us the result).
Also whats the machines spec i.e. Ram and Swap space? and how big is the file your trying to work on? What is the output of the commands df and free before and after running the gimp?
Adam
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In message 20000219103139.A19922@thebowery.co.uk, Adam Bower adamb@thebowery.co.uk writes
I can't get it to do even the simplest transformations. Trying to rotate a selection, for example, produces no result other than a lot of hard disk activity which appears quite rapidly to fill up the partition in use, whether home or root; the only way out that I have found is to log off and start again. Is this a known problem? I'm using Linux-Mandrake 6.1, the Macmillan distribution, on a Dell which has an Nvidia TNT2 graphics card.
Well, 1.0.4 is the latest(?) stable version and is as stable as a rock AFAIK. I've been using a cvs snapshot shortly after development version 1.1.16 was released and again it's pretty stable.
Perhaps you could tell us your gimp version, and any other relevant info (try gtk-config --version and tell us the result).
Also whats the machines spec i.e. Ram and Swap space? and how big is the file your trying to work on? What is the output of the commands df and free before and after running the gimp?
Adam
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Yes, the gimp version is 1.0.4. The machine has a Pentium III 500Mh with 64Mb RAM. My swap partition is 128Mb. I have tried various file sizes, the smallest being the default New file with one small rectangle drawn and filled. Applying even a small rotation to it starts off the above symptoms. df and free produced the following before and after running gimp from the home partition (HDA7). HDA6 (root) remained constant at 55% use. HDA7 before 22Mb 2% after 390Mb 41% Memory Used Free Shared Buffer Cache Before 61644 1372 4700 1564 32096 After 62428 728 5116 27872 3304
I must point that the above was just a snapshot of what was going on. I checked HDA7 again and found 77% used. I bailed out then by logging off and shutting down. The message KDE gave about information which would be lost listed the Gimp file which was obviously still open and 'rotation information'. I then rebooted and logged on as root. HDA7 was 96% used and I found a hidden file called xsession-errors in my home directory - size 905,928k! Too big to open so I deleted it.
I found in a Q&A forum (xach.com mean anything?) someone who was getting some sort of crash in Gimp while using bezier tools, also in Linux Mandrake 6.1. He didn't get it with Red Hat 6.0. Someone pointed that it is possible that Mandrake compile using pgcc, which uses 'overzealous optimisation' Compiling gimp with gcc was suggested as a possible remedy. I wouldn't know how to go about that though.
Sorry if some of the above is unclear or inaccurate but at the moment I can use neither modem nor printer with Linux so have to scribble things down and then reboot in Windows to communicate, but that's another story!
On Sat, 19 Feb 2000, Doug Tulloch wrote:
[ snip worrying memory usage ]
I found in a Q&A forum (xach.com mean anything?) someone who was getting some sort of crash in Gimp while using bezier tools, also in Linux Mandrake 6.1. He didn't get it with Red Hat 6.0. Someone pointed that it is possible that Mandrake compile using pgcc, which uses 'overzealous optimisation' Compiling gimp with gcc was suggested as a possible remedy. I wouldn't know how to go about that though.
It's worth a try.
Go to www.gimp.org and download an rpm of gimp-1.0.4.i386.rpm and install that ($ rpm -Uvh --force gimp-1.0.4.i386.rpm) and see if that helps.
It also possible that Macmillan/Mandrake have released and updated package themselves to fix it - check this first.
Sorry if some of the above is unclear or inaccurate but at the moment I can use neither modem nor printer with Linux so have to scribble things down and then reboot in Windows to communicate, but that's another story!
I remember it well...
James.
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In message Pine.LNX.4.05.10002191821420.14303-100000@sunlab17, Green J M K jmkgre@essex.ac.uk writes
On Sat, 19 Feb 2000, Doug Tulloch wrote:
[ snip worrying memory usage ]
I found in a Q&A forum (xach.com mean anything?) someone who was getting some sort of crash in Gimp while using bezier tools, also in Linux Mandrake 6.1. He didn't get it with Red Hat 6.0. Someone pointed that it is possible that Mandrake compile using pgcc, which uses 'overzealous optimisation' Compiling gimp with gcc was suggested as a possible remedy. I wouldn't know how to go about that though.
It's worth a try.
Go to www.gimp.org and download an rpm of gimp-1.0.4.i386.rpm and install that ($ rpm -Uvh --force gimp-1.0.4.i386.rpm) and see if that helps.
It also possible that Macmillan/Mandrake have released and updated package themselves to fix it - check this first.
Sorry if some of the above is unclear or inaccurate but at the moment I can use neither modem nor printer with Linux so have to scribble things down and then reboot in Windows to communicate, but that's another story!
I remember it well...
James.
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I can't find a gimp rpm on any of the UK mirrors or even on the main site. The nearest I got was v. 1.0.2. I've downloaded a .tar.gz though. Can I use this and if so should I uninstall the Mandrake one first? Thanks for helping, by the way!
On Sun, 20 Feb 2000, Doug Tulloch wrote:
I can't find a gimp rpm on any of the UK mirrors or even on the main site. The nearest I got was v. 1.0.2. I've downloaded a .tar.gz though. Can I use this and if so should I uninstall the Mandrake one first? Thanks for helping, by the way!
Nonsense, you just need to know where to look:
http://www.mirror.ac.uk/sites/ftp.freshmeat.net/pub/rpms/gimp/
They're prolly built on RedHat, but Mandrake's supposed to be 100% compatible right?
In message <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002201448360.956-100000@cyberstorm.demon.co. uk>, jg@cyberstorm.demon.co.uk writes
On Sun, 20 Feb 2000, Doug Tulloch wrote:
I can't find a gimp rpm on any of the UK mirrors or even on the main site. The nearest I got was v. 1.0.2. I've downloaded a .tar.gz though. Can I use this and if so should I uninstall the Mandrake one first? Thanks for helping, by the way!
Nonsense, you just need to know where to look:
http://www.mirror.ac.uk/sites/ftp.freshmeat.net/pub/rpms/gimp/
They're prolly built on RedHat, but Mandrake's supposed to be 100% compatible right?
Right! My version was 1.0.4-6 so downloaded & upgraded with 1.0.4-7. Bingo! It all works smoothly. Thanks. Had a look at your (jg's) website whilst downloading (that 'turnpike saved links' thing is useful isn't it) and was disgusted to find that you're in about the same age group as my children. I may well be the oldest member of ALUG but clearly not the wisest! Cheers,
Doug Tulloch wrote:
In message <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002201448360.956-100000@cyberstorm.demon.co. uk>, jg@cyberstorm.demon.co.uk writes
On Sun, 20 Feb 2000, Doug Tulloch wrote:
I can't find a gimp rpm on any of the UK mirrors or even on the main site. The nearest I got was v. 1.0.2. I've downloaded a .tar.gz though. Can I use this and if so should I uninstall the Mandrake one first? Thanks for helping, by the way!
Nonsense, you just need to know where to look:
http://www.mirror.ac.uk/sites/ftp.freshmeat.net/pub/rpms/gimp/
They're prolly built on RedHat, but Mandrake's supposed to be 100% compatible right?
Right! My version was 1.0.4-6 so downloaded & upgraded with 1.0.4-7. Bingo! It all works smoothly. Thanks. Had a look at your (jg's) website whilst downloading (that 'turnpike saved links' thing is useful isn't it) and was disgusted to find that you're in about the same age group as my children. I may well be the oldest member of ALUG but clearly not the wisest! Cheers, -- Doug Tulloch
I'm 43, and I don't think I'm the oldest...
Cheers, Laurie.
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Laurie Brown wrote:
[...]
I'm 43, and I don't think I'm the oldest...
No you're not :)
Regards, Dermot
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Laurie Brown wrote:
[...]
I'm 43, and I don't think I'm the oldest...
No you're not :)
Not by a long chalk.
Ian
Ian Thompson-Bell
The Technology Partnership plc Melbourn Science Park Melbourn Herts SG8 6EE United Kingdom
Tel: +44 1763 262626 Fax: +44 1763 261582
mailto:itb@techprt.co.uk
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Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Laurie Brown wrote:
[...]
I'm 43, and I don't think I'm the oldest...
No you're not :)
Not by a long chalk.
how about a short punched card ;)..
(forgive my abstract sense of humor ;).. Sz
Ian
Ian Thompson-Bell
The Technology Partnership plc Melbourn Science Park Melbourn Herts SG8 6EE United Kingdom
Tel: +44 1763 262626 Fax: +44 1763 261582
mailto:itb@techprt.co.uk
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Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Laurie Brown wrote:
[...]
I'm 43, and I don't think I'm the oldest...
No you're not :)
Not by a long chalk.
how about a short punched card ;)..
Or a few feet of paper tape?
Ian
Ian Thompson-Bell
The Technology Partnership plc Melbourn Science Park Melbourn Herts SG8 6EE United Kingdom
Tel: +44 1763 262626 Fax: +44 1763 261582
mailto:itb@techprt.co.uk
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Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Laurie Brown wrote:
[...]
I'm 43, and I don't think I'm the oldest...
No you're not :)
Not by a long chalk.
how about a short punched card ;)..
Or a few feet of paper tape?
eee bye eck, when I wer't lad ;)...
I guess I better get this back on a linux related theme ;).. does anybody have any suggestions for a reasonable backup devices other than dat under linux ?? we need to back up about 15 gig, dosen't have to be than fast, (well overnight will do!).. it seems that dat's are now becomming a little small ;)..
please, no suggestions of 15 jazz drives ;)..
Sz
Ian
Ian Thompson-Bell
The Technology Partnership plc Melbourn Science Park Melbourn Herts SG8 6EE United Kingdom
Tel: +44 1763 262626 Fax: +44 1763 261582
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On Thu, 24 Feb 2000, Neill Newman wrote:
I guess I better get this back on a linux related theme ;).. does anybody have any suggestions for a reasonable backup devices other than dat under linux ?? we need to back up about 15 gig, dosen't have to be than fast, (well overnight will do!).. it seems that dat's are now becomming a little small ;)..
Um, I heard dats were now 80Gig.
Alternatively you could buy lots of large hard disks, install them in various machines and run a mirror tool over night, and see if your network is still standing the next morning :-) (j/k)
James.
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----- Original Message ----- From: Green J M K jmkgre@essex.ac.uk To: alug@stu.uea.ac.uk Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 2:30 PM Subject: [alug] Trouble with gimp
On Thu, 24 Feb 2000, Neill Newman wrote:
I guess I better get this back on a linux related theme ;).. does anybody have any suggestions for a reasonable backup devices other than dat under linux ?? we need to back up about 15 gig, dosen't have to be than fast, (well overnight will do!).. it seems that dat's are now becomming a little small ;)..
Um, I heard dats were now 80Gig.
i thought so too....
don't, however cheap it may look, buy an OnStream tho... they're only supporting the damn things under NT.... wankers
Thom
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Green J M K wrote:
On Thu, 24 Feb 2000, Neill Newman wrote:
I guess I better get this back on a linux related theme ;).. does anybody have any suggestions for a reasonable backup devices other than dat under linux ?? we need to back up about 15 gig, dosen't have to be than fast, (well overnight will do!).. it seems that dat's are now becomming a little small ;)..
Um, I heard dats were now 80Gig.
80 ?? is that right !! you sure it's not 8 ??
Alternatively you could buy lots of large hard disks, install them in various machines and run a mirror tool over night, and see if your network is still standing the next morning :-) (j/k)
well, the network is not the problem as we have 100Meg up here, but a lot of hard disks in machines make off site backups a little tricky ;)..
Sz
James.
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Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Laurie Brown wrote:
[...]
I'm 43, and I don't think I'm the oldest...
No you're not :)
Not by a long chalk.
how about a short punched card ;)..
Or a few feet of paper tape?
Ian
I remember both (Honeywell 120 & Univac 4100 respectively)
Cheers, Laurie.
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Laurie Brown wrote:
[...]
I remember both (Honeywell 120 & Univac 4100 respectively)
Ah, but could you hand punch an IBM card (ie 0,3,8 for comma)?
We also had a comms front-end processor that had core store knitted by women in Hertfordshire? - I don't think that we ever rebooted it although we powered down each night.
And what happened to those advanced operating systems like George 2+ where to discover what jobs (processes) were running you had console command something like MS#DSUP=27
(I really had to stop and look for the keys now that I have a UK keyboard)
Who says that *nix isn't user friendly?
Regards, Dermot
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Laurie Brown wrote:
[...]
I remember both (Honeywell 120 & Univac 4100 respectively)
Ah, but could you hand punch an IBM card (ie 0,3,8 for comma)?
And I remember modifying punched tape with a single hole punch and a special tape for filling in erroneous ones!
Ian
Ian Thompson-Bell
The Technology Partnership plc Melbourn Science Park Melbourn Herts SG8 6EE United Kingdom
Tel: +44 1763 262626 Fax: +44 1763 261582
mailto:itb@techprt.co.uk
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Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
[...]
And I remember modifying punched tape with a single hole punch and a special tape for filling in erroneous ones!
And that lovely holey gummed tape for joining all the bits together again when the 1000 cps! reader shredded them.
And you could still get change from 128 kchars.
Regards, Dermot
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Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
[...]
And I remember modifying punched tape with a single hole punch and a special tape for filling in erroneous ones!
And that lovely holey gummed tape for joining all the bits together again when the 1000 cps! reader shredded them.
And you could still get change from 128 kchars.
And do you remember the two pass paper tape assembler!!!
Ian
Ian Thompson-Bell
The Technology Partnership plc Melbourn Science Park Melbourn Herts SG8 6EE United Kingdom
Tel: +44 1763 262626 Fax: +44 1763 261582
mailto:itb@techprt.co.uk
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Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
[...]
And do you remember the two pass paper tape assembler!!!
No, I'm afraid you've got me there. I was an operator on a Cobol site - but we did have a systems analyst who sent the same job down to us again and again for a day or two until we asked him what he was doing.
It turned out that he had dropped his program (2000 IBM cards) and was sending them down, wrapped in a little sort job, so that he got a print of the sort errors (sequence no in cols 72 or somesuch). He would then rearrange those cards and send it down again... :)
He wasn't a (complete) idiot but hard disks were so new then, he could only work with mag tape, and had no concept of random access files.
I have still got a chess program on paper tape, about 4kchars, that beat me but would stop a state-of-the-art (1977) ICL mainframe in its tracks. I think that that says more about the multi-tasking policies of OSes in those days than my chess abilities.
Regards, Dermot.
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Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
[...]
And do you remember the two pass paper tape assembler!!!
No, I'm afraid you've got me there. I was an operator on a Cobol site - but we did have a systems analyst who sent the same job down to us again and again for a day or two until we asked him what he was doing.
It turned out that he had dropped his program (2000 IBM cards) and was sending them down, wrapped in a little sort job, so that he got a print of the sort errors (sequence no in cols 72 or somesuch). He would then rearrange those cards and send it down again... :)
He wasn't a (complete) idiot but hard disks were so new then, he could only work with mag tape, and had no concept of random access files.
I have still got a chess program on paper tape, about 4kchars, that beat me but would stop a state-of-the-art (1977) ICL mainframe in its tracks. I think that that says more about the multi-tasking policies of OSes in those days than my chess abilities.
Those were the days hey? My wife worked as a tape librarian at ICL in Letchworth so I have heard similar stories about George 3 (which was something of a revelation when it first came out).
My first job was working on a newly designed 16 bit mini developed by BAC for automatic testing of rapier missiles. It was great pioneering fun developing printer, cassette tape and other interfaces (like you siad hard drives had not been invented then). You could even input machine code on switches on the front panel.
Ian
Ian Thompson-Bell
The Technology Partnership plc Melbourn Science Park Melbourn Herts SG8 6EE United Kingdom
Tel: +44 1763 262626 Fax: +44 1763 261582
mailto:itb@techprt.co.uk
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On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
[...]
And do you remember the two pass paper tape assembler!!!
[ bzzt ]
OK So how about an alug-old-days list ;-)
James
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Hi, Ive got my redhat dialing up and using the internet fine in KDE and GNOME, but Im wondering what are the actual files those pretty GUI interfaces edit....
Also when using gnome or kde come to think of it the speed is not very impressive, its nowhere near as quick as windows (Yea I know I bet that upsets a few people..!! ) I suspect it should be far quicker, The important bits Im using are a celeron 366 chip, 256 meg ram and a voodoo 3 2000 agp graphics card, yet still opening programs takes longer than it should and moving windows around the screen is a bit slow.. Im using the drivers that went on when I installed redhat 6 so should I get a different (better?) one for the voodoo 3...?? I notice theres a file on the 3dfx site but its about 13 meg so Id prefer to know its going to help before I download it.. :)
Cheers
Stu...
Were even going to be supporting Linux at freeserve soon......... :)
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Also when using gnome or kde come to think of it the speed is not very impressive, its nowhere near as quick as windows (Yea I know I bet that upsets a few people..!! ) I suspect it should be far quicker,
You are not the first to notice this. I too was surprised when I first got into Linux. There are many reasons but perhaps the most important factor affecting the apparent speed of ''Windows'' is the windows manager. The slimmer this is the faster the GUI operates. If you use a window manager like fvwm95 (which sort of emulates a windoze 95 GUI) you will obtain similar performance to W95. Gnome is a more complex windows manager and therefore takes a bit longer to do what it does. KDE is even more complex and takes longer still. Try all three and you will see what I mean.
Ian
Ian Thompson-Bell
The Technology Partnership plc Melbourn Science Park Melbourn Herts SG8 6EE United Kingdom
Tel: +44 1763 262626 Fax: +44 1763 261582
mailto:itb@techprt.co.uk
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On Thu, Mar 02, 2000 at 09:30:17AM -0000, Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
W95. Gnome is a more complex windows manager and therefore takes a bit longer to do what it does. KDE is even more complex and takes longer still. Try all three and you will see what I mean.
Gnome is not a window manager -- instead it will happily use any gnome-compliant one. The rather ponderous Enlightenment has been the default, but is soon to be replaced by the slightly faster sawmill. You could also choose to use the wonderful IceWM (but use the gtk2 theme, I think), blackbox-gnome or fvwm-gnome.
MJR
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Gnome is not a window manager -- instead it will happily use any gnome-compliant one. The rather ponderous Enlightenment has been the default, but is soon to be replaced by the slightly faster sawmill. You could also choose to use the wonderful IceWM (but use the gtk2 theme, I think), blackbox-gnome or fvwm-gnome.
Whoops sorry, of course I meant Enlightenment - its confusing enough that Gnome is plastered all over the GUI on my version. I find Enlightenment quite swift; certainly much more so than KDE.
Ian
Ian Thompson-Bell
The Technology Partnership plc Melbourn Science Park Melbourn Herts SG8 6EE United Kingdom
Tel: +44 1763 262626 Fax: +44 1763 261582
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does anybody have any advice on wine ? is it stable enough for 24/7 use ?
I am considering using a linux box to render in lightwave under wine - does wine affect the fpu performace ?
J
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On Thu, Mar 02, 2000 at 12:46:50PM -0000, sKinn~Y J wrote:
does anybody have any advice on wine ? is it stable enough for 24/7 use ?
I am considering using a linux box to render in lightwave under wine - does wine affect the fpu performace ?
Worth a try, but I think you'll be lucky if you can get it to work and perform well. In theory wine should be as fast as running native, but it's still in the early stages of development (even though they've been doing so for the last two or three years) and so it's full of debugging code. Give it a whirl - nothing to loose.
Paul
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Yes, I'm using Enlightenment which seems OK as long as you ignore all its excess baggage of themes, backgrounds etc. But for those with really minimalist tendencies there is on my (Mandrake) system a WM called TWM, for Tiny Window Manager. I've fiddled about with it and it doesn't appear very user friendly but might be worth some persistence. Incidentally I just got the Staroffice CD and was trying it out by editing a small document, thought things were a bit sluggish, checked memory use and found that of my 64mb RAM and 128mb swap Staroffice was using around 130mb! Do I need more memory or is this excessive?? In message 200003021205.MAA03337@orac.techprt.co.uk, Ian Thompson-Bell itb@techprt.co.uk writes
Gnome is not a window manager -- instead it will happily use any gnome-compliant one. The rather ponderous Enlightenment has been the default, but is soon to be replaced by the slightly faster sawmill. You could also choose to use the wonderful IceWM (but use the gtk2 theme, I think), blackbox-gnome or fvwm-gnome.
Whoops sorry, of course I meant Enlightenment - its confusing enough that Gnome is plastered all over the GUI on my version. I find Enlightenment quite swift; certainly much more so than KDE.
Ian
Ian Thompson-Bell
The Technology Partnership plc Melbourn Science Park Melbourn Herts SG8 6EE United Kingdom
Tel: +44 1763 262626 Fax: +44 1763 261582
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On Thu, Mar 02, 2000 at 09:22:53PM +0000, Doug Tulloch wrote:
really minimalist tendencies there is on my (Mandrake) system a WM called TWM, for Tiny Window Manager. I've fiddled about with it and it doesn't appear very user friendly but might be worth some persistence.
Time to knock another myth on the head... TWM is the Tab Window Manager and is as old as the hills, but actually uses more memory than most of the modern WMs including IceWM and Blackbox for sure. Can't be very well written, I guess.
MJR
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On Thu, Mar 02, 2000 at 09:22:53PM +0000, Doug Tulloch wrote:
Yes, I'm using Enlightenment which seems OK as long as you ignore all its excess baggage of themes, backgrounds etc. But for those with really minimalist tendencies there is on my (Mandrake) system a WM called TWM, for Tiny Window Manager. I've fiddled about with it and it doesn't appear very user friendly but might be worth some persistence.
IceWM is also small and rather nice; it's not as configurable as something like fvwm, but fvwm is daft because the configuration file is about nine megs :) Ice is Gnome-compliant, as well.
Incidentally I just got the Staroffice CD and was trying it out by editing a small document, thought things were a bit sluggish, checked memory use and found that of my 64mb RAM and 128mb swap Staroffice was using around 130mb! Do I need more memory or is this excessive??
I've just installed StarOffice on rorschach (my P166 laptop, 32MB), and it's horribly slow. I thought that it might be that it's not the fastest processor in the world, but perhaps it's just grotesquely inefficient or something. Anyone had any luck with it?
Aquarius
On Fri, 3 Mar 2000, Aquarius wrote:
Anyone had any luck with it?
It walks on my P3/450 with 64mb, I| suspect the real issue is the memory usage, as it iis perfectly useable with 128mb on a P2/400.
Certainly more useful than this dialup connection when downloading a 7mb file - apols for any typos!
Andrew.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- A.Savory at uea.ac.uk All views are my own - who else would want them? -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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On Fri, 3 Mar 2000, Aquarius wrote:
On Thu, Mar 02, 2000 at 09:22:53PM +0000, Doug Tulloch wrote: IceWM is also small and rather nice; it's not as configurable as something like fvwm, but fvwm is daft because the configuration file is about nine megs :) Ice is Gnome-compliant, as well.
Not if you delete the comments! I've been using fvwm since about 1995 and have found it to be consistently faster than everything but twm (ugh), especially in starting up. What's more, I can configure it so that it looks _nothing_ like Windoze. And I still use it on my trusty old laptop, a 33MHz 486 thinkpad!
..Adrian
On Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 09:13:18AM +0000, Adrian F. Clark wrote:
On Fri, 3 Mar 2000, Aquarius wrote:
On Thu, Mar 02, 2000 at 09:22:53PM +0000, Doug Tulloch wrote: IceWM is also small and rather nice; it's not as configurable as something like fvwm, but fvwm is daft because the configuration file is about nine megs :) Ice is Gnome-compliant, as well.
Not if you delete the comments! I've been using fvwm since about 1995 and have found it to be consistently faster than everything but twm (ugh), especially in starting up. What's more, I can configure it so that it looks _nothing_ like Windoze. And I still use it on my trusty old laptop, a 33MHz 486 thinkpad!
Hm. In that case, I might have a closer look at it. Last time I looked I found fvwm horribly confusing, but that was a few years ago. I settled on ice because it's small and easy and I don't need an enormous amount of configurability from my WM, but a few things with ice are beginning to annoy me; perhaps I'll switch..
Aquarius
On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Aquarius wrote:
ice because it's small and easy and I don't need an enormous amount of configurability from my WM, but a few things with ice are beginning to annoy me; perhaps I'll switch..
If you're finding Ice annoying, you haven't configured it right... either that or it's on the TODO list usually ;) fvwm is a hairy old goat that held back Linux for years, IMO.
MJR
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Aquarius wrote:
[...]
IceWM is also small and rather nice; it's not as configurable as something like fvwm, but fvwm is daft because the configuration file is about nine megs :) Ice is Gnome-compliant, as well.
Yes, IceWM is an efficient and accessible WM.
[...]
I've just installed StarOffice on rorschach (my P166 laptop, 32MB), and it's horribly slow. I thought that it might be that it's not the fastest processor in the world, but perhaps it's just grotesquely inefficient or something. Anyone had any luck with it?
I reckon that it must be RAM as I run it quite happily on a P166 (actually AMD-K6 - 333.41 BogoMIPS) with 64Mb.
It is a little slow to start up (old hard disk) and it does appear to use a phenominal amount of memory (mostly shared I guess) as I think it runs six threads each of 30840 Mb showing up in a `ps aux`. However, it leaves about as much RAM available (with a fairly large spread sheet loaded) as Netscape 4.6 does (judged by using `free`).
I can never assess memory usage in Linux but it does work in 64Mb :)
Regards, Dermot
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Got this from a friend can any one suggest a good place to look....??? Cheers Stu
hiya, and thanks for helping out I really appreciate it. I have tried millions of combinations now for all the kppp settings in kde and still the same error is coming up:-
"The pppd daemon died unexpectedly"
The debug file reports the folowing:-
"localhost pppd[625] The remote system is required to authenticate itself but localhost pppd [625] counldnt find any secret (password) which would let it use an IP address."
I have tried a manual login script as well and the same error occurs. I also used the terminal button in the modem device setup and called the speaking clock so I know the modem works.
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Hi what would I put in nt boot.ini in order to get linux loaded, I put lilo in the partition, as opposed to MBR, as Id rather use the NT boot loader... ??
Thanks Stu..
I did search the redhat site but couldent find the answer, mind you we were pretty busy at good old freeserve today which distracted me from the important things Id have preffered to be doing.. :)
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Hi Stu,
There's a programme you need to download called bootpart. Forget the name of the site now, but it's easy enough to find. It creats a copy of the bootsector, I called mine linux.boot. If you can't find it, let me know, I'll email it to you.
What gets added to the boot.ini file is
[boot loader] timeout=10 default=c:\linux.boot [operating systems] c:\linux.boot="Mandrake Linux 6.0" multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT="Windows NT Server Version 4.00" multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT="Windows NT Server Version 4.00 [VGA mode]" /basevideo /sos
Hope that helps Chris :-)
Chris *************************************************************************** E Mail Chris@glovercc.clara.co.uk WWW http://www.glovercc.clara.co.uk ICQ 18054759 Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject. -Anon
On Sun, 16 Jan 2000, Stu wrote:
Hi what would I put in nt boot.ini in order to get linux loaded, I put lilo in the partition, as opposed to MBR, as Id rather use the NT boot loader... ??
Thanks Stu..
I did search the redhat site but couldent find the answer, mind you we were pretty busy at good old freeserve today which distracted me from the important things Id have preffered to be doing.. :)
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Stu wrote:
Got this from a friend can any one suggest a good place to look....??? Cheers Stu
hiya, and thanks for helping out I really appreciate it. I have tried millions of combinations now for all the kppp settings in kde and still the same error is coming up:-
"The pppd daemon died unexpectedly"
AFAIR this happens because you have a line in /etc/ppp/options with 'lock'
kppp does its own locking, it used to be OK to have an empty options file.
Regards, Dermot
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On Sat, 4 Mar 2000, Dermot Musgrove wrote:
Stu wrote:
Got this from a friend can any one suggest a good place to look....??? Cheers Stu
hiya, and thanks for helping out I really appreciate it. I have tried millions of combinations now for all the kppp settings in kde and still the same error is coming up:-
"The pppd daemon died unexpectedly"
AFAIR this happens because you have a line in /etc/ppp/options with 'lock'
kppp does its own locking, it used to be OK to have an empty options file.
chmod uog+rwx /dev/modem
does the trick here.
On Fri, 03 Mar 2000, Stu wrote:
hiya, and thanks for helping out I really appreciate it. I have tried millions of combinations now for all the kppp settings in kde and still the same error is coming up:-
"The pppd daemon died unexpectedly"
The debug file reports the folowing:-
"localhost pppd[625] The remote system is required to authenticate itself but localhost pppd [625] counldnt find any secret (password) which would let it use an IP address."
Sounds like an authentication problem to me... maybe you're using the wrong userid/password combination? Capitalization? Maybe you're using PAP instead of CHAP, or vice-versa. It might be a good idea to try connecting to another account you have the username and password for - both on the same ISP and another ISP, if possible. That way you can isolate the problem.
I've had trouble connecting to NT servers in the past; I had to recompile pppd for MS-CHAP authentication (all the instructions are with the source code). I don't think this is the error message that I got though.
I have tried a manual login script as well and the same error occurs. I
This would remain consistent with an authentication problem. If you're manually editing stuff, edit /etc/ppp/chap-secrets and/or /etc/ppp/pap-secrets.
Check out ISP-Hookup-HOWTO and PPP-HOWTO for more info.
Good Luck!
Darrell (A former East-Anglian living in Canada!)
Yes, I'm using Enlightenment which seems OK as long as you ignore all its excess baggage of themes, backgrounds etc.
Yes, there are some very dark, odd, weird themes out there - makes you wonder a bit about the people that created them.
But for those with
really minimalist tendencies there is on my (Mandrake) system a WM called TWM, for Tiny Window Manager. I've fiddled about with it and it doesn't appear very user friendly but might be worth some persistence.
I think TWM is quite commonly available - its probably on my redhhat dist but I have not checked. It's mentioned in most of the 'learn everything possible about Linux in 21 days' type books where it's referred to as Tom's Window Manager, presumably after the man who wrote it.
Incidentally I just got the Staroffice CD and was trying it out by editing a small document, thought things were a bit sluggish, checked memory use and found that of my 64mb RAM and 128mb swap Staroffice was using around 130mb! Do I need more memory or is this
excessive??
I am not sure. I have run up Star Office but not used it in earnest. Did not seem noticably sluggish to me. That amount of memory usage does seem excessive but remember Linux mamory usage figures need carefull interpretation.
Ian
Ian Thompson-Bell
The Technology Partnership plc Melbourn Science Park Melbourn Herts SG8 6EE United Kingdom
Tel: +44 1763 262626 Fax: +44 1763 261582
mailto:itb@techprt.co.uk
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On Fri, 3 Mar 2000, Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Yes, I'm using Enlightenment which seems OK as long as you ignore all its excess baggage of themes, backgrounds etc.
Yes, there are some very dark, odd, weird themes out there - makes you wonder a bit about the people that created them.
Indeed, one comes to the conclusion that they are very artistic. Probably also bored teenagers too ;-)
I've actually spent the past few months using:
E (on it's own and with GNOME) WindowMaker (as above) SawMill (on it's own).
The themability of WindowMaker is good, but the titlebar it just too square and big. Sawmill is fast, but still early in developments, and E is just damned pretty.
I've now settled comfortably with GNOME+E with four virtual desktops. Actually the thing I find most annoying when using Windows now is the lack of virtual desktops, no doubt Microsoft will 'invent' those too soon enough.
On the matter of speed, yes GNOME+E is slower than windows, but take into account what it has to do and you could say it's comparitively faster. GNOME still has some way to go, and I'm not convinced that GTK's performance is truely great (Qt is damned site faster) even without any themes.
But for those with
really minimalist tendencies there is on my (Mandrake) system a WM called TWM, for Tiny Window Manager. I've fiddled about with it and it doesn't appear very user friendly but might be worth some persistence.
I think TWM is quite commonly available - its probably on my redhhat dist but I have not checked. It's mentioned in most of the 'learn everything possible about Linux in 21 days' type books where it's referred to as Tom's Window Manager, presumably after the man who wrote it.
Indeed the number of WMs becoming available seems to have tripled in the last year or so. XFCE is getting quite a bit of exposure on linux.com ads although I've not tried it.
Incidentally I just got the Staroffice CD and was trying it out by >
editing a small document, thought things were a bit sluggish, checked
memory use and found that of my 64mb RAM and 128mb swap Staroffice
was > using around 130mb! Do I need more memory or is this excessive??
I am not sure. I have run up Star Office but not used it in earnest. Did not seem noticably sluggish to me. That amount of memory usage does seem excessive but remember Linux mamory usage figures need carefull interpretation.
StarOffice for me is very slow to startup, but once you're in everything's quick. The two problems I have with it is that it doesn't produce a correct Word97 export and it refuses to see the fonts provided by xfstt.
James.
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On Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 10:38:21AM +0000, Green J M K wrote:
The themability of WindowMaker is good, but the titlebar it just too
Huh? IIRC, you can only change the desktop, tile and titlebar backgrounds. How that gets away as a theme, I don't know.
GNOME still has some way to go, and I'm not convinced that GTK's performance is truely great (Qt is damned site faster) even without any themes.
I'm a lot more enthusiastic about GNOME's ORB-led development direction than KDE's interdependencies and corner-cutting. I view KDE as taking the same approach as made Windows what we know today in order to get a quick-fix of popularity. Finally, GNOME seems to have got the serious bugs knocked out and it's fast enough on my aging p133+48Mb when combined with IceWM. The biggest resource hog here is still Netscape with all its memory leaks.
Indeed the number of WMs becoming available seems to have tripled in the last year or so. XFCE is getting quite a bit of exposure on linux.com ads although I've not tried it.
XFCE is fine: if you like CDE, that is.
I am not sure. I have run up Star Office but not used it in earnest.
StarOffice for me is very slow to startup, but once you're in everything's
I'm finding the bits of Gnome Office quite speedy to use. AbiWord and Dia get fairly heavy usage now (although serious writing is still TeX'd... don't ask about the text editor ;) )
MJR
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I've now settled comfortably with GNOME+E with four virtual desktops. Actually the thing I find most annoying when using Windows now is the lack of virtual desktops, no doubt Microsoft will 'invent' those too soon enough.
Bound too. It's not in Windoze 2000 then?
On the matter of speed, yes GNOME+E is slower than windows, but take into account what it has to do and you could say it's comparitively faster. GNOME still has some way to go, and I'm not convinced that GTK's performance is truely great (Qt is damned site faster) even without any themes.
I looked at Qt but then moved to GTK becuase I still have a hard time getting my head round C++. However, I agree GTK feels cumbersome but I am still surprised a C++ implementation is faster. Isn't KDE based on Qt ?
Ian
Ian Thompson-Bell
The Technology Partnership plc Melbourn Science Park Melbourn Herts SG8 6EE United Kingdom
Tel: +44 1763 262626 Fax: +44 1763 261582
mailto:itb@techprt.co.uk
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So has anyone tried the Voodoo3 3DFX driver from said site...and did it improve matters with speed..??
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I'm 43, and I don't think I'm the oldest...
But you have had a hard life - hence the wrinkles. :-)) HawHaw
Cheers, BJ
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Green J M K -
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