On Tuesday 23 Aug 2005 06:26, David Reynolds wrote:
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought the social list was for organising social events rather than random babbling about the company you happen to be annoyed with this week?
You must be new to the ALUG lists, in addition to being mistaken. If you read them regularly you'll find that Mark makes useful contributions to this and other organisations.
I say above that you must be new, as most of those subscribed to the various ALUG lists, conform to the norm by trimming their quotes, see: http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting.html http://tinyurl.com/b4wfc
It is also quite unusual for those subscribed to this list to use pejorative phrases when replying to posts to the lists.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
John Seago johnseago@two-ravens.org.uk wrote:
On Tuesday 23 Aug 2005 06:26, David Reynolds wrote:
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought the social list was for organising social events rather than random babbling about the company you happen to be annoyed with this week?
You must be new to the ALUG lists, in addition to being mistaken. If you read them regularly you'll find that Mark makes useful contributions to this and other organisations.
... social != lists, he's been on main for a while... Mark *sometimes* makes useful contributions, granted, I wouldn't class it as often, these days, though. Certainly, he used to make some well informed, concise, posts...
I say above that you must be new, as most of those subscribed to the various ALUG lists, conform to the norm by trimming their quotes, see: http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting.html http://tinyurl.com/b4wfc
Things done in a rush, an all that... quoting is an art form, learned only through practise.
It is also quite unusual for those subscribed to this list to use pejorative phrases when replying to posts to the lists.
It's actually quite unusual to see anything on this particular list, usually people looking for things (like, say, bar billiards tables) or to inform of an up and coming ALUG social event (like, say, a bbq that people can attend if they want)...
Personally, I'd rather see experiences with companies limited to the minimum possible on this list, asking fine, presenting the information to the social list, as fact, without being asked for $opinions, less so... that's what blogs and planet are for.
For planet alug see: http://www.otherwayup.org.uk/planets/alug/ Which is some evil hacked up system that Mark wrote. Certainly it used to have some 'issues' as soon as a post did anything in the slightest 'wrong', I tend to read less and less of it now as I read some other sources that have a lot of the same posts on.
Thanks, - -- Brett Parker web: http://www.sommitrealweird.co.uk/ email: iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk
Brett Parker iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk wrote:
[...] Certainly, he used to make some well informed, concise, posts...
Brett disagreeing with something doesn't make it less informed or concise.
[...] I'd rather see experiences with companies limited to the minimum possible on this list, asking fine, presenting the information to the social list, as fact, without being asked for $opinions, less so... that's what blogs and planet are for.
Should one present fact as fiction? I've tried that before.
I did ask for some opinions (does BT do anything right? and should I chase the privacy failure further?), but Brett's work colleague replied with hostility before anyone answered. Not grave, though.
For planet alug see: http://www.otherwayup.org.uk/planets/alug/ Which is some evil hacked up system that Mark wrote. Certainly it used to have some 'issues' as soon as a post did anything in the slightest 'wrong', I tend to read less and less of it now as I read some other sources that have a lot of the same posts on.
Evil? Issues? The script used (schycyroll) reads xml/rdf/rss/xhtml and uses set theory to construct a new web page, with a couple of nice twists missing from the python planet. It works fine, as far as it goes. A possible improvement is to add html and atom parsers, but I've not gotten around to that yet.
On Tue, Aug 23, 2005 at 01:49:20PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
Brett Parker iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk wrote:
For planet alug see: http://www.otherwayup.org.uk/planets/alug/ Which is some evil hacked up system that Mark wrote. Certainly it used to have some 'issues' as soon as a post did anything in the slightest 'wrong', I tend to read less and less of it now as I read some other sources that have a lot of the same posts on.
Evil? Issues? The script used (schycyroll) reads xml/rdf/rss/xhtml and uses set theory to construct a new web page, with a couple of nice twists missing from the python planet. It works fine, as far as it goes. A possible improvement is to add html and atom parsers, but I've not gotten around to that yet.
It seems to regularly end up dumping raw HTML out for savs' blog. I don't know if that's a schycyroll or a Wordpress failure though.
What are the criteria for inclusion? I have an infrequently updated blog, with RSS available from:
http://www.earth.li/~noodles/blog/index.rss
J.
Jonathan McDowell noodles@earth.li wrote:
On Tue, Aug 23, 2005 at 01:49:20PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
Evil? Issues? The script used (schycyroll) reads xml/rdf/rss/xhtml and uses set theory to construct a new web page, with a couple of nice twists missing from the python planet. It works fine, as far as it goes. A possible improvement is to add html and atom parsers, but I've not gotten around to that yet.
It seems to regularly end up dumping raw HTML out for savs' blog. I don't know if that's a schycyroll or a Wordpress failure though.
A bit of both. schycyroll uses no html parser yet and Wordpress isn't always producing valid xhtml. It could be fixed on either side.
What are the criteria for inclusion? I have an infrequently updated blog, with RSS available from: http://www.earth.li/~noodles/blog/index.rss
Criteria are that you're an alugger, have a blog producing RSS (preferably the greatest 1.x) and it looks like it can be added. Yours'll be on http://www.otherwayup.org.uk/planets/alug/ soon.
Thanks,
On Tue, Aug 23, 2005 at 03:50:54PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
Jonathan McDowell noodles@earth.li wrote:
On Tue, Aug 23, 2005 at 01:49:20PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
Evil? Issues? The script used (schycyroll) reads xml/rdf/rss/xhtml and uses set theory to construct a new web page, with a couple of nice twists missing from the python planet. It works fine, as far as it goes. A possible improvement is to add html and atom parsers, but I've not gotten around to that yet.
It seems to regularly end up dumping raw HTML out for savs' blog. I don't know if that's a schycyroll or a Wordpress failure though.
A bit of both. schycyroll uses no html parser yet and Wordpress isn't always producing valid xhtml. It could be fixed on either side.
Firstly sorry, it's Moveable Type, not Wordpress[0].
Secondly it seems to validate just fine for http://www.andrewsavory.com/blog/index.rdf with http://feedvalidator.org/
If I look at the entries that cause problems (the recent one titled "Links", say) it looks like they're correctly bundled up in a CDATA escaping. I fed Andrew's blog to Planet to see what it did and it appears to do the right thing. So it looks like a schycyroll issue. I don't see why it should need to parse HTML to cope with this, but I haven't looked at its code at all.
J.
[0] <insert MT licensing rant here>
Jonathan McDowell noodles@earth.li wrote:
Secondly it seems to validate just fine for http://www.andrewsavory.com/blog/index.rdf with http://feedvalidator.org/
Should escaped html be in description or content:encoded? It's not something I looked at too deeply when writing it, as both seem to happen in the wild (and even link and title can be tricky too).
[...] I fed Andrew's blog to Planet to see what it did and it appears to do the right thing. So it looks like a schycyroll issue. I don't see why it should need to parse HTML to cope with this, but I haven't looked at its code at all.
The xml parser doesn't like the missing </li> in the Links item.
I think Planet just prints the unescaped code into the output, so can it reliably produce a valid page? (Schycyroll doesn't yet produce a valid page, but has a reasonably easy fix for the current bug stopping it.)
Trying to regex out all the stupid things people do with html isn't feasible. Parsing it, merging it and then serialising should give reliably valid pages and enable some other features. The downside is that the encoded html needs to be parsed. The xml parser is used anyway, so schycyroll just blindly tries that on the description (hoping most people use 1999 xhtml by now) and uses the text "parser" if the attempt fails.
Hope that explains why I want it to parse things.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
MJ Ray mjr@phonecoop.coop wrote:
Brett Parker iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk wrote:
[...] Certainly, he used to make some well informed, concise, posts...
Brett disagreeing with something doesn't make it less informed or concise.
No, and I didn't say that, you are however making a lot more very opinionated posts without actually bothering to read replies or in any way justify your position. If all you've got is opinions, try actually building ones that have some justification.
Currently you appear to be the one playing around the 'net with the "all these people disagree with me but that's not going to stop me from trying to stir up shit, for I am Mark, and my opinion is *obviously* correct.", I'm sorry, but I've entirely lost faith in your ability to give an unbiased and actually useful response to almost everything.
[...] I'd rather see experiences with companies limited to the minimum possible on this list, asking fine, presenting the information to the social list, as fact, without being asked for $opinions, less so... that's what blogs and planet are for.
Should one present fact as fiction? I've tried that before.
Your dealings with a company do not make it *fact*, it just makes it your experience with that company, dear boy. I can imagine that most companies after having to deal with you tend to seem quite crap.
I did ask for some opinions (does BT do anything right? and should I chase the privacy failure further?), but Brett's work colleague replied with hostility before anyone answered. Not grave, though.
BT pays for vast amounts of research, and they're certainly no worse than any other company with a monopoly.
I think you can actually refer to David as *David*, just because I do happen to work with him does not automatically relegate him to being "Brett's work colleague", weirdly, he has the same rights and freedoms as anyone else, it appears very disrespectful for you to refer to him purely as a work colleague.
For planet alug see: http://www.otherwayup.org.uk/planets/alug/ Which is some evil hacked up system that Mark wrote. Certainly it used to have some 'issues' as soon as a post did anything in the slightest 'wrong', I tend to read less and less of it now as I read some other sources that have a lot of the same posts on.
Evil? Issues? The script used (schycyroll) reads xml/rdf/rss/xhtml and uses set theory to construct a new web page, with a couple of nice twists missing from the python planet. It works fine, as far as it goes. A possible improvement is to add html and atom parsers, but I've not gotten around to that yet.
See noodles' post on this, there are issues with it, you've been told about them before. - -- Brett Parker web: http://www.sommitrealweird.co.uk/ email: iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk
Brett Parker iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk wrote:
Currently you appear to be the one playing around the 'net with the "all these people disagree with me but that's not going to stop me from trying to stir up shit, for I am Mark, and my opinion is *obviously* correct.", I'm sorry, but I've entirely lost faith in your ability to give an unbiased and actually useful response to almost everything.
I never said those words or believed anything similar. Brett and some others seem to enjoy mounting random unprovoked attacks and spreading such lies about me and my work, this month in particular. I suspect the increase is because I don't want a drinking club trading and speaking as "Debian-UK" but who knows?
No disrespect was meant to David by eliding his name in the final edit. The connection between him and Brett might not be known and Brett's reply may look unusually one-sided without it. There was no need for that initial reply to be public.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
MJ Ray mjr@phonecoop.coop wrote:
Brett Parker iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk wrote:
Currently you appear to be the one playing around the 'net with the "all these people disagree with me but that's not going to stop me from trying to stir up shit, for I am Mark, and my opinion is *obviously* correct.", I'm sorry, but I've entirely lost faith in your ability to give an unbiased and actually useful response to almost everything.
I never said those words or believed anything similar. Brett and some others seem to enjoy mounting random unprovoked attacks and spreading such lies about me and my work, this month in particular. I suspect the increase is because I don't want a drinking club trading and speaking as "Debian-UK" but who knows?
You think this is an attack? Interesting, especially after you have just attacked BT... Obviously, this is a statement of opinion based on your current posting habits to the lists that I am subscribed to, and conversations with people that I respect. And, why, dear boy, bring debian-uk in to this list? I see you're already talking about it in several other lists, are you just trying to get as much publicity out of this as you can? What exactly *are* your intentions... Shall we bring up the constitution of AFFS here, too... after all, weren't you the one that basically managed to get that in to the state it is now... i.e. very hard to amend and very broken... Oh, but wait, you've already said that that constitution is 'fine', apparently you have a very odd definition of 'fine'.
No disrespect was meant to David by eliding his name in the final edit. The connection between him and Brett might not be known and Brett's reply may look unusually one-sided without it. There was no need for that initial reply to be public.
Quite frankly, it wouldn't have matter if it was Dave or Ted the dead donkey, I would have replied the same, dear boy. Do you *honestly* think that I go out of my way to defend "work colleagues"? Have you never read my blog? People are people. There was no need for the origional post about BT, either, but hey, there it was. If you're going to air views in public, then do it.
And if you didn't mean disrespect, why on earth not use his name? He is not a number. - -- Brett Parker web: http://www.sommitrealweird.co.uk/ email: iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk
Brett Parker iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk wrote:
MJ Ray mjr@phonecoop.coop wrote:
I never said those words or believed anything similar. Brett and some others seem to enjoy mounting random unprovoked attacks [...]
You think this is an attack? Interesting, especially after you have just attacked BT... [...]
...which was provoked, as explained.
Shall we bring up the constitution of AFFS here, too... [...]
I suggest bringing it up on fsfe-uk or affs-project instead.
And if you didn't mean disrespect, why on earth not use his name? [...]
His name was edited out by mistake.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
MJ Ray mjr@phonecoop.coop wrote:
Brett Parker iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk wrote:
MJ Ray mjr@phonecoop.coop wrote:
I never said those words or believed anything similar. Brett and some others seem to enjoy mounting random unprovoked attacks [...]
You think this is an attack? Interesting, especially after you have just attacked BT... [...]
...which was provoked, as explained.
Shall we bring up the constitution of AFFS here, too... [...]
I suggest bringing it up on fsfe-uk or affs-project instead.
Right - so let me get this right, it's fine for you to bring other things in to the mix, but someone else suggests it and that's a different story? You live in a very interesting world, don't you.
And if you didn't mean disrespect, why on earth not use his name? [...]
His name was edited out by mistake.
That's a fairly damned big mistake.
- -- Brett Parker web: http://www.sommitrealweird.co.uk/ email: iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk
Brett Parker iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk wrote:
Right - so let me get this right, it's fine for you to bring other things in to the mix, but someone else suggests it and that's a different story?
No, that's twisted.
You live in a very interesting world, don't you. [...]
I think the world is an interesting place.
His name was edited out by mistake.
That's a fairly damned big mistake.
Indeed.
-
Brett Parker -
John Seago -
Jonathan McDowell -
MJ Ray