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RE: main digest, Vol 1 #249 - 5 msgs
by Keith Watson 16 Apr '02

16 Apr '02

-----Original Message----- --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Ashley" <ashley(a)ashleyhowes.com> To: "Steve Fosdick" <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> Cc: <main(a)lists.alug.org.uk> Subject: Re: [Alug] M$ to release db based filesystem Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:30:27 +0100 > * Perhaps the market of people techically minded enough to buy a PC > with the known complexities and problems is exhausted and people are > looking for something simpler at home. From what I've seen, there appears to be a strong push from Apple and MS to change the computer from what we have used in the past to a "digital appliance". The ads for WinXP promote video editing, digital photography, etc. Apple promotes music applications, etc. Assuming Apple and MS are giving the general public what they want (otherwise why would they buy it?), the general public are not interested in how a computer works, as long as "it does what I want it to do!". Thus as long as the next version of Windows "works" for the general public, they won't care if it can't be programmed, whether they are paying by subscription, whether it is modular, etc. They will just accept it, because they don't know what they are missing out on. > With free software to do all of that business can buy a large number of PCs and > equip them with software without paying a penny to microsoft! This way of > working is becoming increasinly realistic now. In theory. In practise, I still think moving away from Microsoft is difficult and takes a brave person/group. In selling a product to someone (in this case Linux), you need to reduce the number of times you say no to your potential customer (in this case business users), e.g: Customer: Wow, free, what's the catch? Customer: Where can I get new applications? Customer: How do I get support? Customer: Who is my business relationship with? Customer: Who do I sue when the product can't deliver the expected functionality? Customer: How do I train my people to use this new software? The linux community appears to be answering some of the above questions, particularly for the "server" market. But still lacks in the desktop space, e.g: * How many training companies are offering courses now in using office suites for linux? * How many training companies show users how to use Mozilla for web browsing? For us technical people, the above two questions are mute issues. But remember, the average computer user (not nerd) is a technical idiot (this is not meant to be a putdown: they have other things which concern them more). Without getting some of this desktop support in place, the average users of the Linux desktop PC won't be able to use it correctly. Hence, this still makes it a difficult job for an IT manager to change the desktop over to free software. Firstly they have to justify the change with clear and concise answers (remember, some people view free items as having no value). Secondly, if an IT manager does change the business over to free desktop software, he/she does not want to carry the burden to retraining all the users who only have limited experiece of Word, Excel and Powerpoint. My 2 cents worth. Ashley I think Ashley hit the proverbial nail squarely here. Think of an avarage business and telephones. They don't want to know about the complexities of exchanges etc. they just want a phone on everyone's desk and a bunch of optional extras like call forwarding, voice-mail etc. It makes good commercial sense to pay some provider a monthly, quarterly or yearly rental rather than get into the hassle of a setting it all up in-house (although I know many do :o) ). How about satellite or cable TV? Why pay a monthly subscription for something you can (mostly :o) ) get for free as broadcast to air? Yet many people do. Presumably because they regard it as something they want and are prepared to pay for. I wouldn't be surprised if computing goes down this road. Think how attractive it would be for a company if they could just rent a bunch of Windows terminals that connected to their own private virtual network. They would presumably just pick the applications off some pre-configured shoping list and pay a monthly/quarterly/yearly charge. New person joining? just order a new terminal and plug it in. Need more disk space, just rent it. New release of software? overnight upgrade. Of course this doesn't mean all the old support problems go away (just one word (ok acronym! :o) ) - BT). But you dump the lot on someone else. You have someone outside the company to blame and hassle. You only have to read some of Scott Adam's Dilbert books to get an idea of how attractive this idea will be to many managers. Of course the big showstopper at present is the lack of any effective widely available broadband circuits, but that's just technology, it'll get there. The question is will these services all be MS based? For example BT doesn't have all the PBX business in the UK by a long chalk. There a quite a few smaller providers doing very well thank you. It wouldn't be too hard to imagine a bunch of knowledgeable people setting up a service based on open source technologies and being able to make a reasonable living, that is if the big guys like MS don't manage to stitch them up legally. bump!! oops - fell off my soapbox! :o) Regards, Keith Email: mailto:kpwatson@luna.co.uk Web site: http://kpwatson.ontheweb.com ____________ Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know. Lao-tzu ____________ This email and any files transmitted with it is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify your system manager. --- This e-mail message has been scanned for viruses and none have been detected. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.344 / Virus Database: 191 - Release Date: 02/04/2002

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Re: [Alug] Introduction
by Keith Watson 16 Apr '02

16 Apr '02

--__--__-- >Message: 8 >To: main(a)lists.alug.org.uk >From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> >Subject: Re: [Alug] Introduction >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:58:52 GMT >Laurie Brown <laurie(a)brownowl.com> wrote: >> [No, this isn't a troll, all you Debian fans!] >Ohhhhh yes it is! Not matter what the allegations of being obscure/oddly >configured by default, not having 24/7 telephone support hotlines or not >using "standard" (hah! v3/v4 split anyone?) RPMs, you can *NOT* be serious >in accusing Debian of slow security responses. security.debian.org is >normally right up there with the other good distributors and the automatic >service is second to none! woa!! I didn't mean to (re)start the distro wars!! :o) I suspect all of the various distros have their pros and cons, but the thing that attracts me to the open source idea is that you should be able to obtain enough background knowledge to get whatever you need (want?) from Linux. That's why LFS is so attractive to me at the moment. The main problem, I suspect, is where you want to get to and which distro (if any) is the best place to start from? ["Then, if I were you I wouldn't start from here." :o) ] Regards, Keith Email: mailto:kpwatson@luna.co.uk Web site: http://kpwatson.ontheweb.com ____________ CONSERVATIVE, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others. Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary ____________ This email and any files transmitted with it is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify your system manager. --- This e-mail message has been scanned for viruses and none have been detected. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.344 / Virus Database: 191 - Release Date: 02/04/2002

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opengl in mandrake8.1
by Dougie/Mum 15 Apr '02

15 Apr '02

Hi, I have a 64MB Geforce2 Pro graphics card and 256MB RAM with an AMD Athlon 1.2Ghz processor. OpenGL is superfast in Windows, but in Linux everything that uses it is very slow (Tuxracer 0.61 is less than 2fps, GLTron is rather slow when you are near a wall [15fps] and so is ArmageTron). My OS is Mandrake 8.1. Maybe it'll be better in 8.2... Anyway, does somebody know how to fix this? DougT dougie(a)retallackthompson.freeserve.co.uk

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Re: [Alug] opengl in mandrake8.1
by Ricardo Campos 15 Apr '02

15 Apr '02

> My OS is Mandrake 8.1. Maybe it'll be better in 8.2... I'm assuming you haven't installed the drivers yet (so it's working without hardware acceleration): http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=LINUX http://www.linuxnewbie.org/nhf/intel/distros/mandrake/mdk_nvidia.html (skip to halfway down the linuxnewbie page). You know when you have installed the drivers, since you get an Nvidia splashscreen when you frst boot up, or if you restart the X server with a ctrl+alt+backspace. Enjoy! (I would add that many people have had no problems with these drivers, but I certainly have). Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: add user from file
by tom potts 15 Apr '02

15 Apr '02

I havent tried it in Linux but under some unix (AIX for certain) the adduser command is 'flushed' to help prevent this happening i.e. if you pipe into the command the whole stream is dumped before the username is prompted for so using scripts wont work! The reason for this is its an obvious security risk to allow people to create users from files easily. Like all bad security ideas you can get round this by pretending youre a modem! i.e. use an stream reading 'client' like chat as a 'buffer' that only sends the username/password/group etc when requested by the adduser program. Cheers Tom __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com

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Re: [Alug] Meetings! next one Elmswell Sunday 21st April
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 15 Apr '02

15 Apr '02

>You had to click the question mark in the main page and type something in. >I just did so the page is now there for you to modify :) Oh yes, "How to Add Pages". I should have RTFM whilst I had the time ;-) I've started a small list in there, but can't put much in as i've never been to the venue: howwever, please add your names if you are coming and we'll build the list up. Can anyone bring a hub thing? Does anyone want to chat about mail systems? :-) I see I have been volunteered for a poster.........I've fired off an email to the main linux install fest folk asking if they have a custom built one. Jen.

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Re: [Alug] Meetings! next one Elmswell Sunday 21st April
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 15 Apr '02

15 Apr '02

Adam Bower wrote: >I just realised that we have a meeting next weekend at Elmswell, can >somebody either email me the venue info as i can't find it or edit the >Wiki so that the info is there? I tried to edit the wiki but when I got there didn't know how to do it. Best intentions though. If the [Elmswell] part is a link, how do you put in the page it links to, is what I got stuck on. Jen.

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 15 Apr '02

15 Apr '02

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server uk.openprojects.net" or "/server eu.openprojects.net" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Re: [Alug] Help with a script :)
by David Freeman 15 Apr '02

15 Apr '02

On Mon, 15 Apr 2002, Richard Kettlewell wrote: > Even better, define the file format to be equivalent to a shell script > containing appropriate useradd commands; that can create the directory > as well. Good Idea, didn't think of that one. > I rather suspect the point of the assignment was for the student to do > some creative work rather than getting a mailing list to help them > though. Yeah, but there is an eligant simplicity our ideas :o) D

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Help with a script :)
by CEPi 15 Apr '02

15 Apr '02

Greetings people, I need some help or suggestion for a script (actually for my girlfriend who is doing a degree in Comp. Sci in USA). She has a subject on Sys Admin. on Linux :) and on my last trip to USA I installed her a RedHat box at home since they use RH at Uni. , helped her a lot with some other exams on basic sys admin in Linux, inst. etc but I am nowhere with scripting. So here we go the assignment in full : 1. Write the AUFF (Add User From File) script. 2. This script should take a filename as a command line parameter. 3. This file should contain all of the "standard" options for the add user command. 4. You get to decide the format. 5. You get to document the script. 6. You get to write a "man" document supporting your script. 7. Submit a printout of the script, a test file, and your "man" document. 8. Implementing any advanced parsing features will earn you bonus points. (optional) Sorry for the long list and any help or suggestions greatly appreciated. I'm back to College now in Ipswich and again as always if someone needs some Linux ISO's and lacks a broadband conn. I am more then happy to burn some fresh ones for any user in the group (for free of course:). I will try to make some of our meetings as I do miss them :) thanks for your time and hope to see you all again later. Bamir.

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