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10368 discussions

Re: [Alug] Introduction
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 05 Sep '01

05 Sep '01

Hullo Ricardo. >(that means working on it after the pub till 3am just to do something that >would have taken me about 4 seconds to do in Windoze) It's my life's ambition to get so i can do something faster in linux than windows. >....we are not allowed to upgrade from Lotus 4.6 to R5 We call that a downgrade here at work. Next meeting is Sun 16 Sept, unless I am as wrong as i usually am. Where are you based? Jenny.

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Introduction
by Ricardo Campos 05 Sep '01

05 Sep '01

Hi, like it says in the "welcome to the list" e-mail, I'm meant to introduce myself... My name is Ricardo, I work for local government as a Windoze NT Network Admin (and a Lotus Notes Admin)(oh, and as a MS SQL Server admin), and I was attracted to Linux once I saw the license costs for MS products! Seriously, though, I have been frustrated at the lack of security and general lack of affordable network resources for this OS, Windows scripting is poor etc. etc. You get the idea. Unfortunately our beloved government has decided exactly what OS's and which products to use, and I cannot change that (for example we are not allowed to upgrade from Lotus 4.6 to R5, senseless!). However, we are soon going to have external access to our WAN so we need a firewall..... I'm much more into the ethos of free software and I've started learning C programming, and would like to contribute once I'm competent enough. (I think maybe making .rpm's for newbies will be one of my main tasks when I'm not one) I'm currently getting to grips with Linux-Mandrake 8 on my desktop computer (that means working on it after the pub till 3am just to do something that would have taken me about 4 seconds to do in Windoze) , and have Zipslack on my knackered laptop- I got it 2nd hand and it didn't come with any CD's at all (not that it has a CD-Rom!): I'm not sure that I'd risk replacing the OS entirely just yet. (My desktop box has lots of USB devices which aren't supported, so I'm currently struggling with a triple-boot system! [Win 98 for games & periphs, Win 2k as my productivity station due to stability, and Mandrake]. Hopefully I can get Linux to replace Windows 2K on my desktop for ever! Currently D/l ISO's for progeny debian, Smoothwall, Slackware, maybe fiddle around with them too. God bless free kilostream connections! When is the next meet? Both my machines have network cards, and I might be able to borrow a hub or two. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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graphics tablets & network cards
by Adam Bower 05 Sep '01

05 Sep '01

Hi all, I have decided I need to buy some new hardware :-) I am sick of my slow 10BaseT unswitched network and also want to try and use the gimp with a graphics tablet. Anyway, what is peoples opinions of cheap network cards? I am currently looking at either the Netgear FA311 (15UKP) or an even cheaper Realtek 8139 clone (7UKP), now I know these cards are not as fast as something from 3com or Intel but how much slower are they? Of course I then need to get a switch to make it all work (note I don't want a hub) again I looked on Dabs and saw a Netgear FS108 8 port switch for 67 quid inc Vat, again is it garbage or not?? Normally If I was spending other peoples money then I would buy either Intel or 3Com kit but lots of money is not an option at the moment :-( as my budget is about 100 quid for 2 cards and an 8 port switch. The other thing I have been playing with recently is the gimp and I think a graphics tablet may enhance the experience! basically I have got a choice of two, either the wacom intuos A6 or the wacom graphire A6, has anyone ever used these under Linux? and if so what is your experience with them? Thanks for opinions/advice in advance Adam -- This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed Adam

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Re: [Alug] Debian is my friend .... I think
by MJ Ray 05 Sep '01

05 Sep '01

"Earl Brannigan" <earl.brannigan(a)lindenhouse.co.uk> writes: > From what I understand then tasks are a part of the apt 'thingie' ? > I'll have a little look into tonight. No, tasks are generally there, not just in apt. apt just makes it very easy to install them. > One more thing... now when I do a shutdown it gets to power down but > doesn't. Anyone any idea about this? DeadRat always got this so I never > looked into it b4. It's Debian conservatism again. The APM shutdown code is known to crash some machines, so it's disabled by default. You'll be able to switch it on when you recompile ;-) (Oh, and "make-kpkg" is your new friend for kernel compilation.) > Still got to get X working (nothing fancy in the hardware dept though) and apt-get install task-x-window-system I think. -- MJR This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Software for next meeting
by Adam Bower 04 Sep '01

04 Sep '01

Hi all, I got back from the LinuxBierWanderung sometime yesterday after having a great time and brought with me some linux software, and as the next meeting is looming on the horizon I thought it best to start sorting this out now. If anyone wants a copy of any of the following software made for the next meeting then let me know and I will get it done now, I will however have to make a (small) charge to cover my costs (basically the price of the CD-Rs) as I am still unemployed :-( I think 50p per disc is about fair? The software I have available is as follows:- Debian 2.2r3 Official (6 CDs, 3 binary 3 source) A single CD titled debian GNU/Linux 2.2 update, UKUUG 2001 which contains the following packages for use on 2.2r3. Ximian Gnome 1.4 KDE 2.1.1 Debian packages needed to run kernel 2.4 Security updates Xfree86 version 4.03 Some miscellaneous updated packages (samba, dpkg, apt and cupsys) The idea of this is that you can have the latest packages running on top of a Debian 2.2r3 system without having to install unstable or testing. Redhat 7.1 (5 CDs, 2 installation, 1 source, 1 power tools and 1 documentation) StarOffice 5.2 (1 CD, can someone confirm I can make copies of this without breaking any license? the CD doesn't make it 100% clear) Mandrake 8.0 Download edition (1 CD, I have 2 "official" copies available for free to the poorest bidders) If you want a copy any of the above (or parts of it) then please let me know off list soon, all CDs will be made using cheap CD-Rs with badly scribled writing on the disc to let you (and me) know what it is. I also am still going to do a talk on how the Debian package management system works (but I have to do loads of reading yet and prepare some handouts. BTW this will be my first ever public talk, yikes! so go easy on me) and possibly an overview of how to install Debian and where to get help if you are a newbie/beginner. Adam -- This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed Adam

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Re: [Alug] Weekly IRC reminder
by MJ Ray 03 Sep '01

03 Sep '01

This is the weekly IRC reminder correction/improvement. Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> writes: > Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands > "/server eu.openprojects.net" and "/join #alug". /server uk.openprojects.net:8001 also works most of the time (ie when the UK server isn't dead).

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 03 Sep '01

03 Sep '01

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server eu.openprojects.net" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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RE: insmod ide-scsi and cdwriting
by oms101＠freeuk.com 03 Sep '01

03 Sep '01

On 19-Aug-01 oms101(a)freeuk.com wrote: > I only have a small network at the moment a simple system as I am always > about > to leave town and the full system is lacking a bit of a perpose except to > learn > from. > > Anway some of you may have read before (on the alug list) that I have an old > pentium 166 which is dedicated to cd recording ( I know its over kill but it > also rips mp3's) and I have writtern a nice little application which takes > grips audio track listings and generates postscript files for printing out cd > labels via the groff type setting language. > > Well I was installing a 486 with 16MB ram ( Specification is thier so I dont > get flamed ) with windows 3.1 for a friend as she her dad got this computer > some years ago when he went blind and she wanted a simple box to do essays > for the Open University and has no money since she is a single mum. > > Any way along the line I deceded to burn an image of the dos/win 3.1 box I > made for her so I dont have to setup win 3.1 again and ever since I have had > a 70% fail rate on burning CD's now I decided today to figure out what was > wrong and when I found out I was very supprised. I now hava a fail rate that is very low for the first CD burnt but goes up if I burn more CD's, and I dont think its just random I feel that burning 3 CD in a row is more likely to fail than a gap of some hours after the first 2. > I got an error on Suse's boot up pages for insmod ide-scsi ( This A: led me > to > be very impressed with SuSe linux for haveing scripts reporting errors for l > ines that I had added to the start up scripts and B: supprise as I dont > remember > deleting kernal modules since I first "played" (to destuction) with linux) > Anyway I confirmed this by typing > >>insmod ide-scsi > insmod: ide-scsi: no module by that name found > > anyway I reinstalled the default linux kernal and confirmed that all was well > with, > >>insmod ide-scsi > Using /lib/modules/2.2.16/scsi/ide-scsi.o > insmod: a module named ide-scsi already exists > > and then burnt a test CD which worked I cant yet say its solved but it has > yet to fail. What I dont understand is how it even tried to work with > cdrecord > which looked normal and > >>cdrecord -scanbus > > worked and did occasionally work before, I am also curious as to what > caused the problem. Could it be a series of switching off the maschine > with out sending the box through a proper halt. I have done this as it has no > monitor or keyboard and i hate booting my main box just to shutdown another > box. > > I will mail a follow up if I still get problems as this behaviour is so > strange > I am sure I am at falt and maybe misinforming you all. > > > Follow up 1: I am still getting problems but now belive these to be vibration > related. Some definatle where as I moved the CDrecorder and this reduced the errors > Owen Synge > > > > > > > Date: 19-Aug-01 Time: 17:43:55 Date: 02-Sep-01 Time: 23:41:22

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Announce digest, Vol 1 #1 - 1 msg
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 02 Sep '01

02 Sep '01

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Announce digest, Vol 1 #2 - 1 msg
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 02 Sep '01

02 Sep '01

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** oMMMoMo Mo MMMMMMMoMo " "o"o"o"o oMMMoMoM oMMMMMM"MMM" " " " " " "o"o "oMMMoMMM " oMo"M"oo MM" " MoMoMMMMMMM oM " " "oMMM " " MoMMMMMoMoMoooo Mo MMM MoMoMMMMMoMMMMM o" MoM " MoMM "MMo"oMoMMMoM"" MM " MMMMo MMMMMoMMMMMM" oM " MoMMM MMMoMMMo"MM Mo" "MMoMo ooMMMMMMMoMo" oMo oMoMMM " "oMoMMMoMoMo MoM oMoMMM MMMMMMMMMoMMM "oM oMoMMM "M"M"MMoMMMo" " o "oo " MMMM" MMMMMoMoM o" " "oM " " " "o MMMoMMMo"o M " oM " " MMMMMMMoMo o" "oMoMoooMo" " o " " MMoMMMoMoMo " "o"o MM"""""""oM oM " "MMo oMMMMMoMMMoMo " """ """ " o"MMMMoMMMoMMMo"MMo"o" o o o oo MMMMMMoMMMoMMMoMoMo MMMMM MMMo oMMM MMMo MMoMMM oMoMMMoMMMoMMMoMMMo"o oMMMMM MMMo oMMM "MMo MMM "MM MMMMMMMoMMMMMMMoMMMM" " " MMo"MMo MMMo oMM" MMMo oMM" """ " MoMMMoMMMoMMMo" " " MMMoMMMo MMMo oMM" MMMo oMM"oMoMo " "MMoMMMoMMM " " MMMMMMMo MMMo oMM" MMMo oMM" "MM oMMMoMoMoMMMoMMMoMo" " oMM" "oMM" "MMMMM" "MMMMM" MMMoMM" ooMMMMMMMoMMMMMMMoMMMoMo "M" " " " " " """ """ "oM """oMM" " " "MMoMMMoMMMoMM" " " " " " " " alug-announce : The Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group Today's Topics: 1. Best of ALUG (end of August) (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> Organization: Cat-killingly bad Date: 02 Sep 2001 10:16:45 +0100 Subject: [Alug Announce] Best of ALUG (end of August) Here's this month's 2nd edition... Topics: [Alug] Syleham poster 4 u Re: [Alug] Announce ALUG 2001.5 [Alug] Announce ALUG 2001.5 [Alug] Linux Expo Birmingham re-scheduled from 12th-13th september 2001 to [Alug] LPI Certification Re: [Alug] SSH/SCP No Password [Alug] Friendly Offer ? Re: [Alug] Security problems (was Lurkers) Re: [Alug] Disk Space for Linux Re: [Alug] Meeting report? [Alug] Getting data out of databases ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Aug 2001 15:47:18 +0100 From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: [Alug] Syleham poster 4 u Initial details of the syleham meeting should be on the website. A poster to be scattered around liberally is at http://mjr.towers.org.uk/alug/syleham20016.pdf ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:38:56 +0100 (BST) From: "D.I. Redhouse" <dir21(a)cus.cam.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [Alug] Announce ALUG 2001.5 On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, John Woodard wrote: > Announce ALUG 2001.5 > > The next meeting of ALUG (Anglian Linux User Group) will be on Sunday 16th > September 2:00 - 6:00pm at Syleham and Wingfield Village Hall (Mid Suffolk > venue). Venue details at http://www.alug.org.uk/venues/syleham.html If nobody's got any objections I was planning to bimble along to this. So it seems only polite to say that since I have a nice fast connection and more CD burners than you can shake a stick at: if anybody wants CDs of ISOs that they can't get down a modem or whatever, I'll make them up and bring them along if you let me know what exactly you want (within reason, like). Oh, and another thing. On the website at: http://www.alug.org.uk/articles/2001a/alugfaq.html it says: `It can be installed alongside another OS (such as MS Windows or (i think?) Mac OS)' ^^^^^^^^^^ You can definitely dual-boot with MacOS, although I'm not entirely sure how easy it is to install Linux alongside an existing MacOS installation that already uses the whole disk. If you see what I mean. - - David Redhouse, Department of Archaeology, University of Cambridge 0787 6372962 dir21(a)cam.ac.uk http://www.arch.cam.ac.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:14:15 +0100 From: "John Woodard" <mail(a)johnwoodard.co.uk> Subject: [Alug] Announce ALUG 2001.5 Announce ALUG 2001.5 The next meeting of ALUG (Anglian Linux User Group) will be on Sunday 16th September 2:00 - 6:00pm at Syleham and Wingfield Village Hall (Mid Suffolk venue). Venue details at http://www.alug.org.uk/venues/syleham.html I will of as ever volunteer to organise this meeting and any future Mid Suffolk meets. If enough people want it I might be able to get the bar opened for the afternoon so make your requests now. The promotion of the meeting via Usenet can be left to me I will do it ASAP so if there are any news groups you think would be an appropriate place to advertise let me know in the past I have announced meets to: uk.comp.os.linux alt.local.east-anglia comp.os.linux.announce (local:) and the pcplus.linux news groups are there any I have missed? If you are coming mail me with what kit you are bringing and any requests for help and we will get it put up on the web site as before. Cheers, BJ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:39:36 +0100 (BST) From: Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> Subject: [Alug] Linux Expo Birmingham re-scheduled from 12th-13th september 2001 to 29th 30 th May 2002. (fwd) Hi all, Just got this mail in my inbox, so it is now on for May. I think we will organise an outing a bit nearer the time. Adam - -=20 This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed Adam - --------- Forwarded message ---------- Subject: Linux Expo Birmingham re-scheduled from 12th-13th september 2001 to 29th 30 th May 2002. Dear Visitor, Thank you for registering for LINUX EXPO BIRMINGHAM. Please note that the show has been RE-SCHEDULED from 12th-13th September 2001 to 29TH-30TH MAY 2002. The show will still take place at the NEC and will have exactly the same focus, dedicated to GNU/Linux and Open Source Solutions. There is no need to register again - we will re-register you automatically for the 29TH-30TH MAY 2002. Apologies for any inconvenience caused by re-scheduling the show. We look forward to seeing you in May for a high-quality show! Yours Sacha Dunas CEO Sky Events / Linux Expo T=E9l : 0143456600 Fax : 0143459244 Portable : 0672802604 Email : sacha.dunas(a)sky-events.com Linux Expo 2002 Amsterdam - 19 - 20 February Paris - 30 - 31 & 1 February Madrid - 3 - 4 April Sao Paulo - 15 - 16 May Birmingham - 29 - 30 May Milan - June Sky Events 12 avenue de Corbera 75012 Paris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:01:36 -0400 From: John Seago <john.seago(a)btinternet.com> Subject: [Alug] LPI Certification There was a query raised as to the costs of the Linux Professional=20 Institute Exam. Details can be found at :- http://www.lpi.org/ I understand the costs are $100 US for the Exam and a registration=20 fee. The nearest Exam centres are reported to me as being at Ipswich=20 and Peterborough. John Seago=20 (I've got the time to browse!) ------------------------------ Date: 19 Aug 2001 12:56:06 +0100 From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Alug] SSH/SCP No Password "D" <dsc(a)clara.net> writes: > Anyone ever got this to work? Not sat down and tried yet but a guy I was > talking to yesterday said its harder then it looks, surely you just need the > host keys etc.. and your away. I have eval $(ssh-agent) quite early in my .xsession file. This makes sure everything in my X session knows where to find the key manager. Then using ssh-add lets me add keys to it. You generate ssh keys with ssh-keygen and have to copy the right one to the target machine's $HOME/.ssh/authorized_keys file. Other than that, it's fairly simple... ask questions if you want more than the manual pages say. I even have a VPN using slip over ssh, for when I need to appear to be on an internal network somewhere. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:37:26 +0100 From: "Martyn Ashworth" <martyn.ashworth(a)eag.uk.com> Subject: [Alug] Friendly Offer ? All, I have got a copy of Kylix (Open Source) that I will gladly burn onto a CD for anyone interested (or who do not have the bandwidth to download 28Mb). All you then have to do is register to play with an awesome RAD tool for Linux. Sys Requirements: RedHat >= 6.2 Mandrake >= 7.2 SuSE >= 7.0 175Mb Free HD Space. Just e-mail me the postal address (mailto:martyn.ashworth@eag.uk.com) and i can get it sent out in the post tonight. Martyn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:33:21 +0100 From: xsprite(a)bigfoot.com Subject: Re: [Alug] Security problems (was Lurkers) on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 03:13:15PM +0100, MJ Ray scribbled: > MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> writes: > > > Can someone clue me in on how MITM attack would work here? > > Key stroke analysis even. http://www.openwall.com/advisories/OW-003-ssh-traffic-analysis.txt It's quite fun looking at a certain stream and guessing what the user is doing. One long burst normally indicates a full screen editor/program. Regular short updates tend to imply something like a progress bar (wget, bsd ftp). And as the paper says, single characters, sometimes typed quite quickly, sometimes slowly (because passwords can be complex to type), that are not echoed back, tend to be passwords. Surely the echo control should be on the client side. Anyhow. > > I'm probably just hard-of-thinking this morning. > > Yes, you are, aren't you? hehe, it would seem soo.. :) ------------------------------ Date: 15 Aug 2001 08:42:54 +0100 From: Andrew John Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> Subject: Re: [Alug] Disk Space for Linux On 15 Aug 2001 08:41:44 -0400, John Seago wrote: > We would like to know what is the optimum size for one Linux distribution, as > the Mandrake I have currently installed takes up a little over 2 gigabytes, > (in a 5.5 gigabyte partition), how much more space do they needed over the > the actual programme itself? How long is a bit of string? The amount of space needed depends heavily on what it is you're doing with the machine. I've got a debian firewall using 300mb of a 2gb drive... but a debian desktop machine using every spare byte of 4gb... a debian server that has cheerfully chewed through the best part of 40gb... > There would also seem to a problem with the rest of my rather elderly > computer recognising the whole of the 40 gigabytes, it seems to be able to > `see' only 33 gigabytes of the new disk. I've got a P133 that's able to see the entire partition of a 34gb disk (only one partition on there). It has to be slave though, as it's linux that can see the disk and not the machine itself (I can't boot off it). Good luck with the experiment, anyway, Andrew. - - a.savory(a)btinternet.com All views are my own - who else would want them? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:49:50 GMT From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)alug.org.uk> Subject: Re: [Alug] Meeting report? On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:21:16 GMT Martyn Drake wrote: > Okay, spill the beans - how did yesterday's meet go? :) > > Regards, > > Martyn Having managed to give Mark 125MB of email since 7pm yesterday I think its now safe to post a report. Well My worst fears didn't occur as I got a phone call from Mark at 1pm "Where are you" "getting cash out of a cash point which is giving me a DHCP error" replies I. Once I arrive I get a call from Andrew "I'm at tesco's how do I get to you?" which was duely sorted. 8 people turned up including Steve Fosdick Mark Ray Syd Hancock Neill Newman Andrew Glover Peter Holness Peter Clarke and me. We got the cd-writter and sound working on my new debian install and discovered why I couldn't install netscape. Other than that it was a typical meet with lots of chocy biscuits and stilulating conversation on various subjects. Notable by absence BJ Jen Jo Earl Tarquin So who wants to do the next one? Thanks D ------------------------------ Date: 11 Aug 2001 20:05:31 +0100 From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: [Alug] Getting data out of databases I'm the secretary of an association and responsible for keeping their membership lists. As a Linux user, it seemed natural to me to keep the membership records in a database and along the way I discovered two applications which make life very much easier for the non-programmer. PostgreSQL is the database that I use, mainly because I like to have all the features available and I have never had any stability problems with it. For database design and data entry, I discovered the handy pgaccess application which presents an interface not dissimilar to a more famous program with a similar name. The notebook window which is displayed when you start up has tabs for Tables, Views, Forms, Queries and so on, while each one contains a list of available items and some actions on them. Once the command "CREATE DATABASE members;" had been given at the psql command line, it was simply a case of inputting the database details into pgaccess's "Open Database" window to be able to start entering the information. pgaccess was downloaded as part of PostgreSQL, available from ftp.postgresql.org/pub and its home page is at http://flex.ro/pgaccess/ The report generator of pgaccess is not yet finished, so I was left with the problem of how to get the data out. I usually use LaTeX for writing letters and reports, so I was quite happy to discover the GNU Report Generator, gurgle, which was originally designed to work with that. To use it, you write a short gurgle script which includes a few definitions, the database query and the template for outputting the data to another file. Here's my script to print envelopes: %%define PHYSDB "members" %%define NAMCOL %%define TEXEXT .tex %%database "members.sql" select name, institution, mailaddress from memberdetails %%header %%record \envelope{%NAME \\ %INSTITUTIO \\ %MAILADDRES} %%footer %%end The first line sets the database name to connect to, the next tells gurgle to use the names from the query, the third says to save the file with the .tex extension, then we have the query. An empty header and footer surround the record template, which simply puts the database results in a call to my "envelope" macro with some line breaks. The file is then included into my envelope printing file (which also contains the association's logo, etc) and any small changes (replacing commas in the address with line breaks, for example) are done before sending the file to the printer and generating a stack of printed envelopes for a mailshot. Gurgle can be downloaded from http://www.gnu.org/directory/GURGLE.html or http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/timc/gurgle/ and has optional modules for GNUSQL, PostgreSQL, MySQL and CA-Ingres databases as well as text dump files. Comments? Improvements? Your alternatives? --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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