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10372 discussions

command line book and a couple other things
by Peter Alcibiades 01 Jan '10

01 Jan '10

Two things, first, Scott Grannenman's book 'Linux Phrasebook' is a really great introduction to command line, a bit less forbidding and shorter than Linux in a Nutshell, and more pedagogically oriented, lots of examples and when and how to use stuff. Second, I would really like to reply in threads, I realize its very irritating when people do not do this, but how do you do it when receiving only the digest? Is there a nabble or similar page for main as there is for one or two other lists? I've not beein able to find it for this one. Or do I simply have to start getting the messages as they come in and segregate them in the client? Which is kmail, by the way. Incidentally, the printer, which people were kind enough to help with earlier, well, it works! Amazing. It prints out the receipts, and then as if by magic, it operates the cutter, and then equally magically, it opens the cash drawer! The last trick I had to overcome was that ghex for some reason didn't seem to want to make a text file with only hex 7 in it, so I used the far superior bless. And there turned out to be a trick to passing an echo string with quotes in it to the shell from my programming language, you have to do some fairly convoluted things to manage to escape the quotes in the string you want to pass. But hey, it works now, and you will all know that nice feeling you get when, bingo, the bell rings and the drawer opens, just as it should. So thanks. Peter

2 1

USB disk drives
by nev young 01 Jan '10

01 Jan '10

Hi all, Hope every one has had a merry xmas. Does any one know if this[1] 1.5Tb USB disk from Maplins will work on an ubuntu 9.10 machine? If not how could I make it work? I bought a similar one last year and it was not recognised by the PC so I ended up removing the HDD and installing it as an internal drive. Now they're about £30 cheaper than last year and I still need a decent size external drive for backup. I've been to the shop to ask - they don't know and they won't let me try it and return if it doesn't work. I've emailed Maplins tech help - no reply. I've emailed Verbaitum's tech help - no reply. So I thought I'd ask here before I lay out my cash on something else that may not work as intended. TIA Nev [1] http://buy.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?moduleno=323559

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Introducing Myself
by Paul Grenyer 31 Dec '09

31 Dec '09

Hi All I am Head of Software Engineering at validus (http://www.validus-ivc.co.uk) in Norwich. I recently switched from Windows Vista to Ubuntu 9.10 desktop as more and more of the applications I am running on Windows will run anywhere and I wanted something faster and more stable and also wanted to add a new string to my bow. I've tried to switch to Linux on a number of occasions over the years, but this is the only time I've stuck with it. In fact going back to Windows, as I will have to when I return to work in a week, feels horrible and slow now. I am also moving my hosted webserver to my own webserver at home running Ubuntu 9.10 server. I joined the LUG primarily to try and get some help with some issues I'm having, but I will put those into separate emails. For those of you interested, you can read my blog here: http://paulgrenyer.blogspot.com. -- Thanks Paul Paul Grenyer e: paul.grenyer(a)gmail.com b: paulgrenyer.blogspot.com

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vsftpd and permissions
by Paul Grenyer 31 Dec '09

31 Dec '09

Hi All I've setup an ubuntu 9.10 server at home that I am planning to use instead of the pay for web server I have at the moment. It's the 32bit version running on an old AMD 2.0GHz with 1GB of RAM, that I'm hoping to upgrade to 2GB once I can find some. It's seems pretty nippy at the moment, but it's only running Apache2 and Subversion. You can get up my PHP test page here if you're interested: http://82.69.121.44/phpinfo.php I've installed vsftpd, obviously so that I can transfer files to it easily and although I can move .php files into the /var/www folder, it is of course owned by the www-data user, so the files transfered, when logged in as me, will not execute. After some googling I read that I can configure vsftpd to give the files the right permissions automatically on transfer, but I can't find out how? Also, I cannot delete files via ftp that I transfered onto the server using my user. Can that be rectified with vsftpd configuration too? -- Thanks Paul Paul Grenyer e: paul.grenyer(a)gmail.com b: paulgrenyer.blogspot.com

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A curious Debian clash
by Ted.Harding＠manchester.ac.uk 31 Dec '09

31 Dec '09

Hi Folks, First, Seasons Greetings to all. Now: Recently, on a Debian system which (from the time-stamps on the earliest user files) seems to have been Debian Etch (April 2009, though I have been following the updates), I installed the xfmail MUA which I have habitually used on a much older system. It was hnot available in the Etch repository, so I searched the web and found and used the deb package xfmail_1.5.5-3_i386.deb 17-Jan-2006 22:35 951K and it all seemed to go in; and also, it seems to work. So far so good. Today, however, I wanted to install ffmpeg. First, synaptic tells me that there is a broken package (which is not identified, but on later evidence it seems that it is xfmail). Then, when I search for ffmpeg and mark it for installation, I am told it xfmail will be removed (and that there are other problems). So I turned to apt-get, with the following results: [1] # apt-get install ffmpeg Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done You might want to run 'apt-get -f install' to correct these: The following packages have unmet dependencies. ffmpeg: Depends: libavdevice52 (>= 3:20080706) but it is not going to be installed Depends: libimlib2 but it is not going to be installed xfmail: Depends: libglib1.2 (>= 1.2.0) but it is not installable Depends: libldap2 (>= 2.1.17-1) but it is not installable E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution). Well, despite what it says about xfmail dependencies, xfmail works! Now to see what "Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages" gives: [2] # apt-get -f install Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Correcting dependencies...Done The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: libswscale0 libmcrypt4 Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them. The following packages will be REMOVED xfmail 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded. 1 not fully installed or removed. After this operation, 2597kB disk space will be freed. Do you want to continue [Y/n]? n Abort. So it still wants to remove xfmail. So what about the library libimlib2, say, that ffmpeg depends on? [3] # apt-get install libimlib2 Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done You might want to run 'apt-get -f install' to correct these: The following packages have unmet dependencies. xfmail: Depends: libglib1.2 (>= 1.2.0) but it is not installable Depends: libldap2 (>= 2.1.17-1) but it is not installable E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution). So it still stubs its toes on xfmail, but now without any indication that the installation of libimlib2 (and therefore of ffmpeg) is really interfered with by xfmail. It just seems to want to get xfmail out of the way before it does anything else. I do not want to remove xfmail. So is there a way to persuade apt-get (or any other Debian installation program) to ignore xfmail and get on with what it has been asked to do?!! Or am I misunderstanding the workings? With thanks (and if you solve it you will make my Christmas Happy)! Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)manchester.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 25-Dec-09 Time: 21:39:40 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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What's the difference (if any) between 'span' and 'JBOD'?
by Chris G 30 Dec '09

30 Dec '09

My Western Digital NAS server offers me (among other RAID formats) both 'span' and 'JBOD'. I thought they were synonyms for the same thing, that is using the disks 'as is' with no RAID processing. If they're different can anyone explain the difference please. -- Chris Green

1 1

sshfs versus just using ssh/rsync
by Chris G 30 Dec '09

30 Dec '09

Is there any difference between the two following strategies for backing up files to a remote system:- 1 Mount the remote destination directory using sshfs/fuser Copy the files to the 'local' directory just mounted using rsync, rdiff-backup or whatever. 2 Copy the files directly to the remote system using rsync or rdiff-backup. Strategy 1 has the significant advantage that the remote system doesn't have to have anything other than ssh available. You don't run into any issues with mismatched versions of rdiff-backup or anything like that. Both strategies require that you set up some form of 'passwordless' login to the remote system or you need to enter the password (or passphrase) when the backup is run. I was thinking that I can run either of these from my .xprofile so that by the time they are run the required passphrase has been entered. I was even thinking that I could run the backup to one remote system from my wife's desktop .xprofile and to the other from my desktop .xprofile so they'd be at different times and to different remote systems, most unlikely to get both damaged at the same time. Only someone breaking into my working X environment would get access to the backups, just breaking into my home systems wouldn't do it. They might of course break into the remote systems I use for backup but then I have my home backups that haven't been compromised. -- Chris Green

4 5

i18n
by Steve 30 Dec '09

30 Dec '09

Seasons Eatings all, I've been playing around with getting my laptop all nice and easy to use in a joint English / Turkish environment. I've got a key combination bound to switching the keyboard layout between GB and TR but when I do so, I lose some (but not all) of the custom keys I had set up with xmodmap. I think what I'm really asking is: has anyone had any experience of working with a dual (or multi) language environment and do you have any nuggets of information or things to look out for? Or even just some cunning xmodmap foo I should be aware of? On an unrelated note, this year marks my 10th anniversary of using linux and I've just been reflecting on how much cooler things seem now. We're a long way from the days of waiting half a day to download the latest kernel, another half a day to compile it, two more days working out how to get the new kernel to support your winmodem and then the fun of hacking X.conf :) More stuff seems to just work these days and it feels a lot more comfortable. Or maybe that's because I've been with it for 10 years. Anyhoo, enough rambling. See some of you for the first pubmeet of 2010 soon :D Steve

2 1

Some success with seahorse and gnome-keyring-daemon at last
by Chris G 30 Dec '09

30 Dec '09

Well, after searching and asking and digging around in the code I have finally got things working as I believe they should work. That is I have a default keyring being automatically opened for me when I log in. It took me a while because firstly there isn't much documentation telling you how you're supposed to use it and secondly because (in xubuntu 9.10 at least) it's broken so it doesn't work even if you do things right. There are two problems:- 1 - By default ssh-agent gets started as well as gnome-keyring-daemon, as they're both trying to do the same thing this isn't a good idea. I've stopped ssh-agent being started automatically by deleting the use-ssh-agent line from /etc/X11/Xsession.options. I'm sure there should be a GUI way of changing this but I don't know what it is. 2 - Although gnome-keyring-daemon is started automatically it isn't set up to listen on the ssh socket. To fix this I have added the following to my .xprofile:- eval $(gnome-keyring-daemon --start) export SSH_AUTH_SOCK export GNOME_KEYRING_SOCKET This second is definitely a bodge but at least it gets things working, there are several bugs reported around this area in more than one linux distribution - in fact that's how I eventually found out how to sort it out. So, now my login password is *also* used to unlock the default keyring and ssh can interrogate that keyring to get my private key to log in to other systems. .... and it really is just about passwordless, or at least I don't have to enter any more passwords after login, but my private keys are kept reasonably safe. I suppose having my login password the same as my key passphrase is a bit less than perfect but this is only for connections going outwards from my home system so isn't very critical really. Now I'm off to those external systems to make them a bit more secure as regards logging into the home system. It's a pity there aren't any 'hooks' in ssh-agent and login that would allow you to do the same for direct ssh logins as happens with Gnome/KDE, then you could do the same sort of thing and enter only one password for connecting onwards. -- Chris Green

4 6

Efficient power supplies - especially at very low powers - suppliers?
by Chris G 30 Dec '09

30 Dec '09

While this isn't particularly Linux related it is PC related and I'd guess some people here may be knowledgeable in this area. I'm trying to cut down my PCs' power consumption, one way has been to offload 'server' functions from my desktop machine to a much lower power server machine. That's now done and I'm looking at other ways to reduce power consumption. I've been looking at the power consumption of my desktop machine and noticed that when in standby it consumes about 20 watts. So I checked how much it consumed when powered down completely (but still conencted) and it *still* consumed 20 watts. I.e. the power supply and motherboard even when completely idle take 20 watts. I suspect that this is mostly power supply losses. When powered up, even though it's quite a fast machine (quad core processor, 8Gb of memory, two big disk drives) it only takes 50 watts so the power supply isn't all that inefficient when it's working. So how can I search for power supplies that don't take much power when completely idle? Typical 'efficient' 300 watt and 400 watt power supplies are better than 80% efficient but that means they may well still consume 20 watts when doing nothing. Efficiency *doesn't* necessarily equate to low 'off' power. -- Chris Green

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Re: [ALUG] Windows software for managing remote Linux SVN server?
by Srdjan Todorovic 21 Dec '09

21 Dec '09

On 18/12/2009, mick <mbm(a)rlogin.net> wrote: > On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:32:32 +0000 > Srdjan Todorovic <todorovic.s(a)googlemail.com> allegedly wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I'm looking for some simple to use Windows software that can >> administer a remote SVN server that runs on Linux. >> > > Best not ask here about windows software, you'll upset the faithful..... > > :-) Well I've mentioned Linux and SVN, so hopefully that will keep the zealots happy. :) Srdjan

2 1

Windows software for managing remote Linux SVN server?
by Srdjan Todorovic 21 Dec '09

21 Dec '09

Hi all, I'm looking for some simple to use Windows software that can administer a remote SVN server that runs on Linux. Specifically, I'm looking for something that can create a repository, and setup users and change passwords. Normal SVN activities (code browsing/checking in/merging/diffing etc) will be run as normal. I'm currently looking into http://www.sublimesvn.com/ but I'm not sure I like the licensing (why would each developer have to be licensed?). Thanks Srdjan

2 2

Wireless Internet Link Security
by Ian 20 Dec '09

20 Dec '09

Hi Folks, The lady of the house wants a wireless internet connection for her laptop for Christmas as she is fed up with "tripping over cables everywhere!". I have purchased a router and laptop dongle and am experimenting with it so it is ready for The Big Day. One thing which is confusing me is the security modes it offers. It gives me the choice of using any of the following 5 modes: No Security WEP WPA-PSK (TKIP) WPA2-PSK (AES) WPA-PSK (TKIP) + WPA2-PSK (AES) or Mixed Mode I do not expect Security to be a big problem but I may as well set it up the best I can right from the start. Assuming the laptop dongle can also be configured for all five security modes mentioned above which is the best mode to use? (Sorry if the above seems a dumb question to all you experienced network admin bods but this is the first time I have touched a wireless Router and am not sure what I am doing) Ian.

3 3

How best to run a 'pull' backup using passwordless login?
by Chris G 20 Dec '09

20 Dec '09

As part of my sort out and tidy up of security, backups, etc. I've decided that it would be better to run my off site backups as 'pull' backups driven from the remote systems. This way an intruder into my home system won't see any evidence of these backups happening and hence won't be tempted to do anything to them. This requires (unless someone else has some bright ideas) that the remote system has a passwordless login to enable it to do the backup (or I put the password in the script, which comes to the same thing). For this to be (reasonably) secure it needs to be set up so that the *only* thing you can do with that login is a backup. So, finally to my question, what's the tidiest/easiest way of doing this? I can see two possible ways:- A dedicated login with the program to be executed when you login set to do the backup. A 'ForceCommand' in ssh that executes the backup when certain criteria are met. I think I prefer the second as it makes handling permissions etc. easier. E.g. I want to backup files belonging to user xxxx, if I can login as user xxxx then I don't need to worry about the files all being readable by the backup. This requires careful setting up of the sshd_config file though so that remote logins to user xxxx run the backup but one can still login to user xxxx locally. Can anyone see any serious flaws in the above and/or easier ways of doing it that are still reasonably secure? -- Chris Green

4 3

Gnome, seahorse, gnome-keyring-daemon - any good howtos or overviews anywhere?
by Chris G 18 Dec '09

18 Dec '09

I'm considering (though I'm rapidly going off the idea at the moment) using seahorse and gnome-keyring to manage passwords/keys etc. None of the manuals gives a clue as to what they all actually *do*. All you get is information about the mechanics of entering data into seahorse etc. which is pretty straightforward and obvious anyway. I want to know how it actually works to make keeping keys etc. easier and to make logging in to other systems easier. At present I do things manually by editing and copying the various files in $HOME/.ssh directly myself. I don't run ssh-agent, I *assume* that gnome-keyring is a sort of replacement for that but can't find anything that tells me anything actually useful. What concerns me slightly is that it's all a total waste of time if it's only protected by my login password which I think, by default, it is. I.e. if I understand things right (and I'm not at all sure about this) when I log in to the X gui and enter my password then gnome-keyring (and/or seahorse) extracts my key[s] from somewhere and then when I ssh to other systems that key is used and I don't have to type it in. Have I got that anything like right? If this *is* the way that it works how is it even remotely more secure than simply using password login on those systems I ssh into? If not can someone clarify a bit for me, or, as I said, point me at some sort of overview document that explains things. -- Chris Green

4 13

email addresses starting with asterisk?
by Peter Alcibiades 18 Dec '09

18 Dec '09

Helping a friend change computers, we found that the email login did not work, and after a series of conversations with the provider were told to log in to get messages using *(a)mydomain.com This did indeed work, and the effect appears to be that mail sent to any name at mydomain.com is picked up by the login, and also that any name used results in mail being accepted. So for instance you can apparently send to alexander(a)mydomain.com bacchus(a)mydomain.com calypso(a)mydomain.com and so on, and it will all arrive when you log in for messages as *(a)mydomain.com. Why would anyone set up an email system like this? Does it not make a lot more sense to have specific email addresses, both to reduce spam, and to allow you to segregate, for instance, home and business email? This is the same case where there was the incomprehensible networking with two cards and class B addresses for a three machine network. When set up in the usual way with a five port router modem, it all worked perfectly fine with a lot fewer cables. Very strange. Peter

5 4

Questionnaire software - any suggestions?
by Chris G 17 Dec '09

17 Dec '09

I want to build an on-line questionnaire, a very basic one, are there any ready made applications in the Linux/Open Source world for doing this? I can't find anything obvious in the Ubuntu repositories. -- Chris Green

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[ALUG Announce] POSTPONED: December's 3rd Monday Monthly Ipswich Social Meeting
by samwise 16 Dec '09

16 Dec '09

ALUG Announce Please send announcements to Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce ----- The monthly "Third Monday" ALUG Ipswich Social Meeting has been postponed until January. Off-list five us of have agreed on an ALUG Christmas meal on the evening of Tuesday January 5th 2010 (the only day everybody's calendars agreed!). If anyone would like to join us then, please drop me a line. With no other suggestions, I'll probably try making a booking soon at Mr. Wings - the chinese restaurant we went to last time. Thanks, Peter. ----- Send discussion replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk (Reply-To set) Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce

1 0

Eee bah gum - feature...
by Anthony Anson 16 Dec '09

16 Dec '09

If there is a memory-stic plugged-in to any USB socket, the Vodafone internet dongle will not work. Click on the icon to start the software, and all you get is an egg-timer, for less time than it takes to boil an egg - if memory serves. So, introduced the Eee to a memory card in the slot provided. Dongle software failed to open. Same failure if I have an external HDD or CD/DVD plugged in. This is *VERY* inconvenient. Not tried it using a hub yet. Any ideas/suggetions, O all ye cognoiscenti? -- Tony Anson www.girolle.co.uk/

1 1

Relative merits/security of Public Key and old-fashioned password with ssh
by Chris G 16 Dec '09

16 Dec '09

I'm probably being totally paranoid but still. Is there any significant difference in security between using password login and Public Key when using ssh to connect to my home server? Just to clarify ssh connections are *only* allowed from two systems 'out there' where I have shell login accounts so an intruder has to get onto one of those systems before having any possibility of connecting to my server. Is it any easier for an intruder to guess my password (remember, no access to the system so I don't think a dictionary attack is possible is it?) or to guess the encryption key for my private key? I can't see any really significant difference between the two but I'm open to any comments. -- Chris Green

3 4

Security thoughts/questions
by Chris G 14 Dec '09

14 Dec '09

I have a small SoHo LAN which is used by the family (mostly just two of us now) for personal use and in running our small Ltd. company. There's no very sensitive (as in confidential) information on any of the systems but I guess there is stuff in E-Mails etc. that we don't really want to escape. More impportant is the *safety* (as in not losing) of a lot of information such as the company accounts, E-Mail trails of work we do and so on. Recently I have set up a small server machine which now handles DNS (using dnsmasq), has the publicly visible web pages (not the company site but bits and pieces that I want to make visible to 'the world') and runs an SMTP server. This means that firstly I can turn my desktop machine off now (it used to be the server) and secondly there's no direct access from the outside world to my desktop machine. The firewall is set up to allow only ssh, http and SMTP connections from the outside and all three of these are routed to the server machine. So far so good. Now I'm wondering whether I have overlooked anything obvious and/or if there's any way I can improve things. The most likely sort of exploit/damage as I see it is someone breaking into the server machine and just making a mess. I keep the server software as up to date as possible with security fixes etc. for apache, ssh and SMTP (postfix) so it should be fairly difficult to break in. I only allow ssh connections from two hosts (where I have shell login accounts) so password guessing needs to get there first and then into the server. All important data from desktop machines is backed up to a NAS in the garage (separate machine from the server) so that should protect against fire damage and even burglars as they're unlikely to break into both the house and the garage as well as notice hardware in both places. I also back up the critical company files 'off site' to my hosting company's site. The final barrier(s) I'm thinking about are the ease (or otherwise) of doing damage if someone breaks into one system in the LAN. For example would I win anything by enabling the root account on the server (currently sudo only) so that if someon breaks in as me they'd still have to guess the root password to be able to do anything nasty. Are there any NFS exploits I should worry about? There are quite a few NFS mounts across the various systems. -- Chris Green

1 0

Forms design for web pages - any ideas?
by Chris G 14 Dec '09

14 Dec '09

I'm looking for a tool a bit like the Forms Design part of Open Office (or MS Access for that matter) that will build web data input forms. I don't want a full-blown CMS or site design package, I just want to be able to build some simple data entry pages to load data into a database from the web (well, actually my intranet). Is there anything out there which can do this? ... and I have looked quite hard, the best I've found so far is phpmyedit. (This is as an alernative to using Open Office Base) -- Chris Green

7 12

How to set up NFS file sharing area for two users to read/write easily?
by Chris G 14 Dec '09

14 Dec '09

I want to set up a 'file sharing' area on my server machine where two users can both easily read and write files. I want this to be an NFS mount on both users' machines so it's just an 'ordinary' directory as they see at and it can also be mounted as a VirtualBox shared drive. Ideally I'd like the shared area to be owned by a third user, i.e. the two users reading and writing files are, say, 'fred' and 'bert' while the shared area is owned by 'shared'. Is there any way to set up NFS so that if fred writes a file to the area owned by 'shared' it automatically becomes owned by shared and similarly for bert? I don't really want to end up with shared's files owned by all sorts of different users. It would be fairly trivial to set up the shared area to have general write permissions for everyone but it would still be only too easy for either fred or bert to write files there that wouldn't then be writeable by the other users. I guess I essentially want both fred and bert to become user shared when they do anything in shared's file system. -- Chris Green

1 1

lp printing and permissions
by Peter Alcibiades 13 Dec '09

13 Dec '09

OK, profiting from the collective wisdom, my gdi printer is set up as raw in CUPS and is now working very nicely with cat myfile>/dev/usb/lp0 At least as far as printing is concerned, there are some issues with sending it control characters, but that's for later after some more wrestling with it myself. Problem is, printing in this way only seems to work with root privileges. Why? And what should be done about it? Printing works just fine as a user via CUPS, what is so special about this process that it needs to be su? I can think of ways of doing it, but would really like to understand what is going on and why before doing any of them. Cheers, Peter

3 3

re lp printing and permissions
by Peter Alcibiades 13 Dec '09

13 Dec '09

Yes, what I seem to have is: $ ls -l /dev/usb/lp0 crw-rw---- 1 root lp 180, 0 2009-12-12 01:59 /dev/usb/lp0 So, is this maybe the consequence of having set up the raw printer as root? But it had to be done as root apparently. Peter

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