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10372 discussions

Error about gnome-terminal configuration at startup - how to diagnose?
by Chris G 29 Feb '08

29 Feb '08

I'm getting a pop-up error when I start up my Fedora 7 desktop which says:- An error occurred while loading or saving configuration information for gnome-terminal. Some of your configuration settings may not work properly. If I click the "Details" button it tells me:- Failed to contact configuration server; some possible causes are that you need to enable TCP/IP networking for ORBit, or you have stale NFS locks due to a system crash. See http://www.gnome.org/projects/gconf/ for information. (Details - 1: IOR file '/tmp/gconfd-chris/lock/ior' not opened successfully, no gconfd located: No such file or directory 2: Failed to convert IOR '' to an object reference) Failed to contact configuration server; some possible causes are that you need to enable TCP/IP networking for ORBit, or you have stale NFS locks due to a system crash. See http://www.gnome.org/projects/gconf/ for information. (Details - 1: Failed to convert IOR '' to an object reference 2: Failed to convert IOR '' to an object reference) The "Details" really are duplicated like that so I'm not convinced that they're really telling the truth. I have looked at http://www.gnome.org/projects/gconf/ but it doesn't seem to say anything directly relevant. I have been mucking about with my network setup, changing the (private range) IP addresses of my Fedora machine and the router but it's all working OK (web, ssh, etc.) apart from the above gnome-terminal error. Any ideas anyone? -- Chris Green

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Transfering Live CD to hard disk
by Mark Rogers 29 Feb '08

29 Feb '08

I have a bootable Linux (Debian-based) LiveCD, that I want to duplicate onto a hard disk so that it boots from that instead. The hard disk can (should) be mounted read-only, although a writeable swap partition might be useful. The LiveCD is a web kiosk (www.webconverger.com). The reason I want to transfer to hard disk is so that I can mount the disk read-write, make a few changes, then remount it read-only. As a read only disk it can be "reset" by restarting the PC, the whole point is that no user data gets stored. Any ideas how I'd do this? -- Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0845 45 89 555 Registered in England (0456 0902) at 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG

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Does this "cpu MHz" figure seem right?
by Chris G 28 Feb '08

28 Feb '08

On my system /proc/cpuinfo contains:- processor : 0 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 6 model : 15 model name : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6600 @ 2.40GHz stepping : 6 cpu MHz : 1632.000 cache size : 4096 KB physical id : 0 siblings : 2 core id : 0 cpu cores : 2 fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 10 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm syscall nx lm constant_tsc pni monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr lahf_lm bogomips : 4897.97 clflush size : 64 cache_alignment : 64 address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual power management: processor : 1 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 6 model : 15 model name : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6600 @ 2.40GHz stepping : 6 cpu MHz : 1632.000 cache size : 4096 KB physical id : 0 siblings : 2 core id : 1 cpu cores : 2 fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 10 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm syscall nx lm constant_tsc pni monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr lahf_lm bogomips : 4895.38 clflush size : 64 cache_alignment : 64 address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual power management: Should I be seeing more than that 1632.000 value for cpu MHz or is the nominal 2.40GHz figure for Core 2 Duo 6600 just that a 'nominal' CPU speed? -- Chris Green

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EEE Pc competitor?
by Mark Rogers 27 Feb '08

27 Feb '08

http://www.elonexone.co.uk/ £99 Linux based laptop. No mention of specs yet, other than it is solid state disk, wireless, Linux, etc. Launches on 28th Feb at Education Show at NEC, heavily targeted towards educational use. (Imagine that, a whole generation of students who know that "word processor" doesn't have to mean "word"...) -- Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0845 45 89 555 Registered in England (0456 0902) at 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG

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Dedicated Server machine share, anybody?
by Martyn Drake 26 Feb '08

26 Feb '08

Hello, I'll probably be flamed for this, but it's rare that I advertise. I'm contemplating taking out a (cheapish) dedicated server for a couple of personal projects. The specification is: - AMD Opteron 1261 - 1Gb RAM (possibly 2Gb) - 250Gb SATA II HD - 1Tb bandwidth - CentOS 5 64-bit The server will be hosted with SoftLayer in their Dallas Datacentre. I'm looking to partition the server into several Xen virtual machines, and to recoup/off-set some of my rental costs I was wondering if anybody would be interested in taking out a machine for around a tenner a month with relatively generous specifications for the VM. Regards, Martyn

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For Sale...
by Richard Bensley 25 Feb '08

25 Feb '08

-External SCSI RAID array + PCIX controller card. Comes with 4x74GB drives, I used it in a RAID0 config, got about 240MB/s-300MB/s depending on capacity. As pictured here: http://teatimebing.shackspace.com/out/raid.jpg If anyone is interested I will release more specs. Looking to get £300 ono I guess the card would work in a Apple G4/G5 system with a PCIX port, would be great for a Final Cut suite! Those 10bit streams need some juice. -I have an SGI octane that I used with said RAID that I would be willing to part with. Dual 300MHz V6Pro 1x18GB system drive + backup (fresh IRIX install) IRIX CD's (no external CD drive) 2GB RAM - £150 21" SGI granite monitor. SGI keyboard and mouse. Or £400 for both of them together, delivery would be pricey for either/both items as they are heavy. Collections welcome. Cheers Rich

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Should Norfolk NHS go private?
by Ted.Harding＠manchester.ac.uk 24 Feb '08

24 Feb '08

Hi Folks, This morning's Eastern Daily Press on-line: http://tinyurl.com/22odzx carries a story: Doctors warn on computers ELAINE MASLIN 21 February 2008 04:35 Health bosses have put thousands of patients' care at risk by failing to upgrade a defunct computer system, GPs claimed yesterday. Doctors at Reepham's GP practice say they have had to use obsolete computers, which stop them accessing patients' records, for months while waiting for a new system and upgrade. The article is silent about what the technical aspects of the necessary upgrade are; but further down it states: The computers were bought in 2003 by the surgery and work on a server more than six years old. That's very young by Linux standards! I wonder what the problem is ... ?? Best wishes to all, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)manchester.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 21-Feb-08 Time: 08:19:56 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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Kernel messages
by Ted.Harding＠manchester.ac.uk 23 Feb '08

23 Feb '08

Hi Folks, I've just had a string of messahes from/about the kernel (All at the same time, so I'm omitting the repeated "Message from sysloigd ... " lines): Message from syslogd@localhost at Sat Feb 23 14:48:19 2008 ... localhost kernel: Oops: 0000 [#1] localhost kernel: SMP localhost kernel: CPU: 0 localhost kernel: EIP is at 0x8978b66 localhost kernel: eax: 08ebf068 ebx: 08b91df8 ecx: 09eccc28 edx: 08ebf068 localhost kernel: esi: 0a20e3c8 edi: 09eccc28 ebp: bfc25f98 esp: bfc25f98 localhost kernel: ds: 007b es: 007b ss: 007b localhost kernel: Process firefox-bin (pid: 28766, ti=ce4ae000 task=c53f6000 task.ti=ce4ae000) localhost kernel: EIP: [<08978b66>] 0x8978b66 SS:ESP 007b:bfc25f98 What might these indicate? (Debian 4.0 Etch, regularly updated, running in VirtualBox on a Vista system). With thanks, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)manchester.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 23-Feb-08 Time: 15:54:48 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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python/apache2/viewcvs problem
by Jenny Hopkins 21 Feb '08

21 Feb '08

Hullo List, A few days ago it was noticed that the viewcvs on our server was showing a blank page. The apache logfile muttered something about not being able to find the SAPI module. [Thu Feb 21 18:40:36 2008] [error] [client 74.6.29.42] Traceback (most recent call last): [Thu Feb 21 18:40:36 2008] [error] [client 74.6.29.42] File "/home/aleph1/websites/aleph1.co.uk/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi", line 60, in ? [Thu Feb 21 18:40:36 2008] [error] [client 74.6.29.42] import sapi [Thu Feb 21 18:40:36 2008] [error] [client 74.6.29.42] ImportError: No module named sapi [Thu Feb 21 18:40:36 2008] [error] [client 74.6.29.42] Premature end of script headers: viewcvs.cgi I compared various backup images, and found that overnight every .py file in /usr/share/python-support had been added again but as .pyc (see below). I know nothing about the intricacies of python; it would seem this is the same time as it would have broken though. viewcvs and apache2 have upgraded in this time. Can anyone can give me a hint as to where to start foraging for incompatibilities? Presumably something didn't upgrade that should? Here are the installed python-related packages (sorry to post loads of output) ii libapache2-mod-python 3.2.10-4 ii python 2.4.4-2 ii python-apt 0.6.19 ii python-central 0.5.12 ii python-clearsilver 0.10.3-4.1 ii python-egenix-mxdatetime 2.0.6-4 ii python-egenix-mxtools 2.0.6-4 ii python-gdbm 2.4.4-1 ii python-imaging 1.1.5-11 ii python-libxml2 2.6.27.dfsg-2 ii python-minimal 2.4.4-2 ii python-moinmoin 1.5.3-1.2 ii python-mysqldb 1.2.1-p2-4 ii python-pysqlite2 2.3.2-2 ii python-setuptools 0.6c3-3 ii python-subversion 1.4.2dfsg1-2 ii python-support 0.5.6 ii python-xml 0.8.4-6 ii python2.4 2.4.4-3 ii python2.4-minimal 2.4.4-3 Many thanks, Jenny jenny@xios:/home/dirvish/stoneboat$ sudo diff -r 20080218/tree/usr/share/python-support/viewcvs/ 20080217/tree/usr/share/python-support/viewcvs/ Only in 20080218/tree/usr/share/python-support/viewcvs/: accept.pyc Only in 20080218/tree/usr/share/python-support/viewcvs/: apache_icons.pyc Only in 20080218/tree/usr/share/python-support/viewcvs/: apache.pyc Only in 20080218/tree/usr/share/python-support/viewcvs/: blame.pyc etc etc

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Off topic, scrounger?
by Martin Collins 21 Feb '08

21 Feb '08

Hi everyone, Anyone got a spare micro atx motherboard and processor kicking around they want to donate or sell cheaply please? I've just lugged an IQON TESC03 (Tesco special) base unit all the way home on the train from Hull. I foolishly promised my poor brother in-law that I would get it repaired cheaply after he's just spent about £150 in repair-man bills only to have the processor and motherboard blow-up completely on him. He's agreed to have Linux installed on it so it's all in a good cause! Best regards, Martin

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[ALUG Announce] New lug.org.uk site goes live
by MJ Ray 21 Feb '08

21 Feb '08

ALUG Announce Please send announcements to Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce ----- Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:50:57 +0000 From: Hugo Mills <hugo(a)lug.org.uk> Message-ID: <20080221115057.GB640(a)vlad.carfax.org.uk> All - I am pleased to announce that the newly redesigned lug.org.uk website has gone live. After several weeks of concentrated effort from the lug.org.uk admin team, we have a completely redesigned and largely rewritten web presence. The new site, running on Drupal, has a new logo, a fresh look, dynamic content aggregating news from LUGs around the UK, and is standards compliant. The site is available at: http://lug.org.uk/ The lug.org.uk admin team are, in alphabetical order: Phil Clarke, Ciemon Dunville, Mat Grove, Alasdair Kergon, Hugo Mills, Alan Pope, and Andy Smith. We welcome Ciemon and Mat onto the team as website administrators. Most of the team will be attending FOSDEM this weekend, if you want to talk to us in person (or buy us drinks). Finally, we would like to thank the many people who read and commented on the pre-release version of the site. Their feedback was useful, constructive, and much appreciated. Please circulate this announcement as widely as possible. Hugo. -- Hugo Mills <hugo(a)lug.org.uk> lug.org.uk admin team ----- Send discussion replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk (Reply-To set) Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce

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Graphics problem
by Richard Lewis 21 Feb '08

21 Feb '08

Hello ALUG, I have an odd graphics problem on my Debian laptop: I'm getting strange flickery pixels: http://www.richard-lewis.me.uk/flickery-pixels-20080220.jpg I don't get it with the kernel framebuffer but I do get it with X whatever window manager/desktop environment I use. I've tried restarting X, re-installing some X packages and even restarting the computer. One thing I haven't tried which someone suggested was a live CD using a different XOrg version. Any other suggestions or similar experiences? Cheers, Richard -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Richard Lewis http://www.richard-lewis.me.uk/ JID: ironchicken(a)jabber.earth.li -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- +-------------------------------------------------------+ |Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.| |http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html | +-------------------------------------------------------+

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postcode database
by LB 21 Feb '08

21 Feb '08

Sorry for my asking the question not directly linked to the mainstream of this mailing list but I am desperate to know this. I am looking for a free of charge UK postcode database. It's for the purpose of the website I am programming currently, which is of non-commercial nature. The first part of the post code, the out code, would be enough to serve my purpose. I need to know names of towns corresponding to particular out codes and to be able to calculate the distances between post codes. Can you recommend anything reliable? BTW. which out of chargeable resellers of such database would you be likely to choose considering that you don't want to spend a lot of money. -- LB

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another crazy problem with mandriva and kde
by Peter Alcibiades 20 Feb '08

20 Feb '08

OK, having somehow fixed the other two, now this crazy thing shows up. On one user account (but not the other two) something bizarre and disastrous seems to have happened to the menu. You click the star, and get this awful thing with sliding cascades and half the apps missing and four buttons at the bottom. I can find no way of getting this user account back to the normal menu system. Neither in Mandriva's control centre nor in the KDE one. Any ideas? Al

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libx86
by Dan Hatton 20 Feb '08

20 Feb '08

Dear All, I'm trying to compile a particular package (<http://suspend.sourceforge.net/>), and ./configure fails with the error message checking for LRMI_common_init in -lx86... no configure: error: Required libx86 was not found Does anyone know where I can get this library, please? Is it even possible I already have it under a different name (I'm on Fedora 8)? -- Thanks, Dan

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Planet ALUG onto Planet UKLUGs
by MJ Ray 18 Feb '08

18 Feb '08

I hear that www.lug.org.uk may be replaced this week and it includes a Planet UKLUGs, which will republish all posts from Planet ALUG. If you're on planet ALUG and don't want to be on Planet UKLUGs, let me know and I'll pass it on. If you're not on planet ALUG and you want to be added, post here and hope that the mysterious overlord adds you. You need an Atom, RDF Site Summary (aka RSS 1.0) or Really Silly Syndication (RSS 2) feed, as far as I know. Another thing on the new www.lug.org.uk is a page syndicating LUG news, but the feeds from www.alug.org.uk have vanished. Are there any plans to bring them back? Regards, -- MJ Ray http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html tel:+44-844-4437-237 - Webmaster-developer, statistician, sysadmin, online shop builder, consumer and workers co-operative member http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ - Writing on koha, debian, sat TV, Kewstoke http://mjr.towers.org.uk/

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previous note on recovering from silly mistake
by Peter Alcibiades 18 Feb '08

18 Feb '08

By the way, this is the conclusion of the story. I had, you recall, somehow lost all the icons in kontact during a new install of Mandriva, and asked the list for help. They were putting up with it until I figured out what to do. So having got some wisdom here, or at least useful suggestions, I go in to visit last week, and discover it will not boot the default. Not only that, but there seem to be some extra boot options in grub. Who knows, maybe they did an update? Its hard to get a clear account. So I boot from the latest kernel version of the new options, and it starts fine. So just to check, I boot again from the default, and now that boots fine. Very odd. And guess what, all the icons have come back of their own accord! In another part of the wood, another Mandriva system, after system update it cannot start X. Then, same process as above, it can start X but only in 640 x 480 mode. The solution here turned out to be, use the xorg not the nvidia drivers, and all was fine again. I know, put them on Debian..... But the thing is, the Mandriva control centre is so easy for people to use. When it works. Oh well. Al

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3rd Monday Monthly Ipswich Social Meeting : The Milestone, Woodbridge Road
by samwise 18 Feb '08

18 Feb '08

The monthly "Third Monday" ALUG Ipswich Social Meeting is back tonight (Monday 18th February) at 20:00: The Milestone Beer House 5 Woodbridge Road IPSWICH IP4 2EA Tel: 01473 252425 Map/Directions URI: http://maps.google.co.uk/?q=IP4+2EA The Milestone pub is in the centre of Ipswich, near the now-defunct Odeon cinema and not far from The Regent Theatre. There is more information on the venue, including car parking info, on the ALUG wiki: http://www.alug.org.uk/wiki/moin.cgi/Meetings All are welcome, novices and experienced users. Hopefully, it shouldn't be too hard to find the pack, look for those huddled around a laptop! Feel free to ask for further information on the Main ALUG mailing list. Hope to see you there, Peter.

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virtualbox display on win98
by Peter Alcibiades 18 Feb '08

18 Feb '08

Has anyone managed to get better than 640 x 480 out of virtual box display on Win98? I have gone through endless hassle just to get the thing working at all, which it now does, and it will even install the package I wanted. This was a saga incidentally which may be of interest. First you make a CD or ISO from your existing win98 installation, but using DR DOS as the image. Don't ask me why MSDOS doesn't work equally well, but it doesn't. At that point you can boot into DR DOS and unlike if you boot into MS Dos, you can copy the files over from the CD to drive C. The reason you have to do this is that in MSDOS you can run the install program, but not see the files on D. In DRDOS you can see the files but not run the install program! Unless you can figure out how to raise the max program size in DRDOS, but that was too much like archeology for me. So you boot from the CD with DRDOS, copy all the files to C, then switch to MSDOS boot from a different image, and run the install program, and some hours later you have a proper though rather slow Win98 install. However, it is tiny. Perfectly formed but tiny, and you cannot up the resolution. Well, not quite perfectly formed, networking doesn't work and the CD drive is invisible. But that would be OK, if I could only get the display to work acceptably. So next I tried to use Scitech Display Doctor 6.5 as recommended. Does not help in the least. Display Doctor 7 beta is no better, and in addition it doesn't come with a registration code. Getting this stuff onto drive C so you can install it is another saga - the only way I found was to put it onto the DRDOS install CD. Still, it does not actually work, contrary to what other people report. I am now trying to use kqemu, but that won't boot from the image in a way that lets me get to the install files. I can boot from it, then do fdisk, then format C. But then I can't see the install files on the CD or the image to copy them. What next? Is VMWare the only answer? Does that work in better than 640 x 480? All this is on a Mandriva 2008 box. I cannot get VB to run at all on Debian. Al

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ALUG Christmas Meal
by Steve 17 Feb '08

17 Feb '08

Morning list, Here's an email I entirely failed to send from my phone last night: --- I write from the Reindeer, mid pubmeet and also through my phone so do bear with me as the beer is with me. mChicago said: List up people! I am responsible. We've had three pints; we're going too far. Christmas 2006 was too long ago. We have two options: 1. Construct a time portal and travel back to celebrate this event or 2. Have it on the 2nd Thursday of March which is only four weeks' time. We have been offered a set menu - turkey dinner and christmas pudding or a vegetarian option - at the Reindeer by the head chef. Would everybody who's interested please email the list ASAP to say "TRUE" so I may inform the chef of the size of the part. This.Is.Serious. Enf of transmission. Happy Valentine's Day all. x x x With love, Steve --- So there you have it, christmas party plans must be instigated immediately. 13 March at the Reindeer. Set christmas menu. Win. Mildly hungover, Steve

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USB HID functions
by S.Jude＠uea.ac.uk 16 Feb '08

16 Feb '08

Hi, A friend of mine is after some help with coding USB HID functions. Does anybody have any knowledge of experience of Linux USB API functions and data structures? In particular they are after some example C/C++ code that talks to USB HID devices but are finding thorough and complete documentation hard to find. Any info would be much appreciated as they'd like to release some opensource software for their products. Simon

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Proper/Non-perveted social behaviour
by Richard Bensley 16 Feb '08

16 Feb '08

Does anyone else find Paul_C's lack of respect for women, disturbing? Had I noticed earlier he was taking several photos of my girlfriend without her knowledge I would have asked him about his camera sooner. However it is an act that is familiar with every young girl that turns up to an ALUG meeting to be subject to Paul_C's little photo session. This is not acceptable social behaviour, and if a member of staff at the pub or a police office had seen somebody acting in this voyeuristic manner he/she would have been asked to stop what they were doing and leave the premises. I am unsure what the legal premise is on this matter? But it is totally unacceptable in this situation, how can ALUG thrive in helping newer members if they become subject to such abuse? Needless to say my girlfriend is distressed about the matter, but I assured her I would take action in making this threat aware to all ALUG members about Paul_C's actions which I understand he has denied before, and may other members have a problem with. You wont be denying me punk. What's it to be Paul_C? Stand up like a man and explain yourself? Or cower like a typical pervert? Either way I find your presence and contribution to ALUG to be an insult if your porogative is other than that to help people instead of victimising and treating them as objects. Yours Faithfully Richard Bensley

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Network connection at boot
by Barry Samuels 15 Feb '08

15 Feb '08

My MythTV box doesn't have a keyboard or monitor and could be moved between TV aerial points. It has two network cards so can connect via cable or wireless. Is there any way, at boot time, to get it to try the cable interface first and then, perhaps after a given time, to try the wireless interface and to keep trying both interfaces until it does find a connection? -- Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain

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FW: Re: [SLL] Linux Roulette:
by Ted.Harding＠manchester.ac.uk 14 Feb '08

14 Feb '08

The following was just posted to the Seattle Linux List. I don't get it (either one). Can someone explain? Ted. -----FW: <20080214183909.GX3016@zen>----- Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:39:09 -0800 Sender: linux-list-bounces(a)lists2.linuxjournal.com From: Glenn Stone <technoshaman(a)liawol.org> To: linux-list(a)lists.linuxjournal.com Subject: Re: [SLL] Linux Roulette: On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:31:29AM -0800, Xeno Campanoli wrote: >!rm Took me a second to get that one. Yeah, that's shooting blind, for sure... Although one could say !rm:p to make sure... -- Glenn "Be sure you are right -- THEN GO AHEAD!" -- Davy Crockett, from his autobiography (1834) (caps his) --------------End of forwarded message------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)manchester.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 14-Feb-08 Time: 19:03:02 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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Puppy and DSL
by Peter Alcibiades 14 Feb '08

14 Feb '08

Nothing against DSL, but its a curiousity, its an emergency disk. Its amazing and ingenious, but you'd not install it or use it as your main distro. Puppy is a possible main use everyday distro with an amazing quantity of stuff in it for the space and very fast on old hardware. These are both a lot smaller than DIY, Debian + Fluxbox + xfe.. But having thought long and hard about this for someone with quite a bit old hardware, it seems likely that the flexibility you get from the DIY Debian minimalist solution is worth a lot in terms of maintainability, and probably outweighs the extra disk space. I used to like Windowmaker a lot on old hardware, and it is fast, but its stuck in a bit of a timewarp, no faster than fluxbox, no easier to customize and not as attractive. Ion is quite nice if you are setting up an appliance. Its very fast indeed. Again, wouldn't want it every day, but if you're running only one app in a production environment, it might be worth looking at. Al

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