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[ALUG Announce] 2nd Thursday Norwich Meet : Reindeer, Dereham Road
by Jonathan McDowell 10 Apr '07

10 Apr '07

ALUG Announce Please send announcements to Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce ----- The monthly "Second Thursday" ALUG Norwich Pub Meet is this Thursday, 12th March. Apologies for the slightly later than usual reminder; I blame Easter confusing me. It's at the Reindeer pub on the Dereham Road, just opposite the City Gate. People will be there from 8pm-ish, though there may be a few people there earlier. Topics for discussion will no doubt be as varied as ever. The Reindeer has a reasonable selection of beer as well as decent coffee (with biscuits, if you're lucky). Directions to the Reindeer can be found at: http://www.alug.org.uk/venues/reindeer.html Pictures of some of the regulars, and irregulars, and, well, just some pictures of people that might or might not turn up are available from: http://www.earth.li/~noodles/Photos/2006-02-ALUG/ http://the.earth.li/~noodles/stilvoid-alug/mp20050811/ http://www.earth.li/~noodles/Photos/2005-01-ALUG-Xmas/ http://www.earth.li/~noodles/Photos/2004-08-ALUG/ Which should hopefully aid those of you wondering who to look out for, even if the images are getting a bit old now. We now have an area reserved for us, so should be easier to find. As you enter through the main door you'll see a small set of steps ahead of you - the area just up those steps and to the left is where we'll be. J. -- [ I'd love to but... I'm having all my plants neutered. ] ----- Send discussion replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk (Reply-To set) Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce

2 1

Debian Testing, USB and Win CE
by Barry Samuels 08 Apr '07

08 Apr '07

I have just bought a navigational GPS unit which serves for use in-car and whilst walking. It has a label on the back which says: Win CE .NET 4.2 Core. I also have a Thinkpad which came with Windows XP. This GPS unit is recognised by XP using active sync but I'd prefer to use RAKI (synce-kde) running under Linux. After plugging the unit into a USB port I get this in the logs: kernel: usb 1-7.1: new full speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 33 kernel: usb 1-7.1: device descriptor read/64, error -32 kernel: usb 1-7.1: device descriptor read/64, error -32 kernel: usb 1-7.1: new full speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 34 kernel: usb 1-7.1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice There is nothing else in the logs relating to that connection and RAKI does nothing - it apparently does not recognise it and I don't know what the error means. Any help would be welcome. -- Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain

3 4

Etch...
by mephi 08 Apr '07

08 Apr '07

I don't know how many Debian users there are on this list, but for those of you that are, it's looking like Etch is finally released. I'm apt-get-ing now, I wonder how much this is gonna break my server. www.debian.org Matt

4 4

Redundant web hosting
by Mark Rogers 08 Apr '07

08 Apr '07

Any reason why the following won't work? It sounds too "easy"... Server A is the primary DNS for a domain, and hosts its website, its database, and its email (SMTP in, dropped to POP3 mailboxes via spamassassin). All relevant records are in the DNS: www., pop3., etc, and point to Server A. Server B is the secondary DNS for a domain, but all the records (www./pop3./etc) point to Server B (not A). Server B has an exact copy of the website, the database (synchronised through MySQL replication), and drops any email it receives through its own spamassassin into its local POP3 mailboxes. Server A also uses fetchmail to collect mail from Server B and drop it into its local POP3 boxes, in case any arrives there. TTL on DNS records on both servers is set to a short period (say 15 mins). In normal use, the domain resolves to server A and server B just acts as a redundant backup. If/when server A fails, its DNS vanishes and so clients request from the DNS on server B, which directs them to the website and database on server B and drops email into its local POP3 mailboxes. (The end user, when checking their email, will likewise get Server B when they query pop3.theirdomain and start collecting email from Server B.) When server A recovers, things go back to normal, with any remaining mail in the POP3 mailboxes on Server B pulled over by fetchmail. Server A and B will be in entirely different locations (maybe not even on the same continent!) The only obvious problem which comes to mind is that writes to the database on Server B will get the databases out of sync, therefore I'd make remove write access to the databases from the website and modify the website code to handle that. In case anyone ends up at server B when server A is up and running, it could be told to connect remotely to the database on server A unless it can't, falling back to database B. In this scenario session handling would be messed up unless the session info is stored in the database and sync'd across. NB: From experience a lot of spam follows the lower priority MX in case it bypasses the spam checker, which would put a lot of the spam load onto the redundant server, hopefully allowing legitimate email through more quickly. -- Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0845 45 89 555 Registered in England (0456 0902) at 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG

4 4

CSS question, probably very naive.
by Chris G 05 Apr '07

05 Apr '07

I'm sure there's something fundamentally silly wrong with this but I can't see what it is at the moment. Here's a snippet of a CSS file:- .header { border-top: thick solid #cccccc; border-bottom: thin solid #cccccc; color: #0E0E0E; background: #EEEEEE; height: 8em; } h1.header, h2.header, h3.header, h4.header, h5.header, h6.header { padding: 0px; background: #EEEEEE; color: #003366; font-weight:normal; line-height:140%; } .crumbs {color: blue; background: white;} a.crumbs {color: red; background: white;} a.crumbs:visited {color: blue; background: white; text-decoration: none} Now the .header bit is doing what I expect for the part of my HTML that has a <div class="header"> ..... </div> around it, I get a nice pale grey background. But none of the h1/h2/h3/h4 'inside' the header seem to work. They still get a default white background. Similarly the .crumbs is working (I tried changing the background to check) but none of the a.crumbs are working. What am I doing wrong? Surely something obvious and silly but I can't see it. I even ran a CSS checker on it and it checks out perfectly, just doesn't actually do anything! -- Chris Green

2 2

Re: Webmin/Usermin & proxies
by Matthew 05 Apr '07

05 Apr '07

Progress! With a <Proxy> block to Allow from all, I get 500 rather than 403 ;-) It looks like an Apache issue still, although I can't be sure. I saw a neat trick somewhere about trapping errors in your proxy (so that you can serve a different page if your backend application server is down); maybe I can find the instructions again and use that to work out where the fault is. Curiously, I have a set of other virtual servers that proxy heavy requests to another instance of Apache and I don't recall having declared a <Proxy> with Allow for them. They use mod_rewrite instead of ProxyPass, but I get the same results either way when passing requests to Usermin. I'll try some more tweaking; thanks for the help. >> I believe you need to add something like >> >> <Proxy *> >> Order deny,allow >> Allow from all >> </Proxy> >> >> To allow access to the proxy. > > I've just been reliably informed (by Brett on IRC) that <Proxy *> is > not a good idea and that you should bind it to a particular ip:port > > So.. > > <Proxy ip:port> > Order deny,allow > Allow from all > </Proxy>

1 0

Use of () in 'test' (or [ ])
by Chris G 05 Apr '07

05 Apr '07

I want to group some logic in a test in a bash script. I.e. I am trying to write something like:- if [ this -a (that -o theOther) ] but bash always complains about 'syntax error'. I have reduced the code to the trivial:- home$ if [ ( true ) ]; then but still get the syntax error. According to the man page for test the format is:- ( EXPRESSION ) EXPRESSION is true I *think* that is trying to tell me that I can use () to group parts of what is inside the []. However, as I said, it refuses to work as I expected. I have tried all combinations of spaces etc. either side of the () but it still just gives a syntax error. Is this just a case where the () are punctuation in the man page rather than real () to use in the expression? Or am I doing something obvious wrong? (probably!). I know I *could* rely on precedence in the tests to get the result I want but it's much easier to write and to understand using () for grouping the logic. -- Chris Green

3 6

Linux 'split' OK; Windows 'join' ???
by ted.harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 04 Apr '07

04 Apr '07

Hi Folks, A bit one foot in each camp this time. I have a large file to transfer from a Linux machine to a Win98 machine, and for practical reasons only able to use floppies. On Linux, split -C 1m nicely produces 1MB size chunks that fit on floppies and can then be read into the win98 machine. Done. So far so good. But -- what's the way to paste the bits together again on Windows? On Linux there's a choice of ways! But Windows?? Thanks -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <ted.harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 04-Apr-07 Time: 01:11:40 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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bt home hub - how to setup ubuntu to recognise modem
by elc＠freeola.net 04 Apr '07

04 Apr '07

> > Currently I am connected via usb, in due course I'm contemplating > buying a usb wireless dongle for this (my main pc) and also one for my > other pc also running windows. > > As I said, I'm an utter newbie to linux; - what is this gui-wireless > setup stuff? > > Thanks > Eric > > James Taylor wrote: >> Can you please provide more information. Are you using the hub >> wirelessly or is it on an eithernet connection or a usb connection? >> >> If its wireless, does your linux recognise the computers wireless >> card [is the wirless carrd usb? can you see other usb devices?] >> >> What do your default gui-wireless setup things tell you? >> >> Thanks >> JT >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: <elc(a)freeola.net> >> To: "ALUG" <main(a)lists.alug.org.uk> >> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 11:12 PM >> Subject: [ALUG] bt home hub - how to setup ubuntu to recognise modem >> >> >>> Help please. >>> I have a British Telecom broadband wireless bt home hub, - it works >>> well with windows, but I am dual booting with Ubuntu/Kubuntu and >>> neither is recognising this modem, and thus can't get online. >>> Can anyone tell me in very simple words how to do this - I am an >>> absolute newbie to linux. >>> Many thanks. >>> Eric >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> main(a)lists.alug.org.uk >>> http://www.alug.org.uk/ >>> http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main >>> Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above! >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> main(a)lists.alug.org.uk >> http://www.alug.org.uk/ >> http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main >> Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above! >> >> >

1 0

Webmin/Usermin & proxies
by Matthew 04 Apr '07

04 Apr '07

This may be a bit of a long shot but is anyone familiar with Webmin or Usermin, and has anyone tried serving either from behind a proxy? I'd like to offer minimal Usermin to mail users and the like, but I'd like to proxy it through Apache to keep it in the same namespace (and on the same port) as the rest of my HTTPS applications. The most likely culprits for an Apache config issue are the proxy statements: ProxyPass / https://localhost:20000/ ProxyPassReverse / https://localhost:20000/ Usermin works fine as a direct request on port 20000, but the proxy returns 403: Forbidden. The Apache logs show the 403, but I think it was originated by Usermin and I can't find anything useful in its logs (it's not even producing one of the log files). Turning off Usermin's SSL doesn't make any difference, nor does using IP or FQDN instead of 'localhost' in the proxy directives. Usermin should be accepting connections from any IP, so I think it dislikes something about the proxying. I barely understand what mod_proxy is up to at the best of times. Anyone got any suggestions? Anything else I could look at? Thanks, Matthew

2 2

Re: [ALUG] Linux 'split' OK; Windows 'join' ???
by ted.harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 04 Apr '07

04 Apr '07

On 04-Apr-07 09:48:41, Mark Reid wrote: > Hi > > In MSDOS mode you can join them with the following command - copy /b > file1 + file2 + file3 + file4 + file5 file./XXX/ > > /b is the switch for binary. /a is for ascii > > Syntax at http://www.computerhope.com/copyhlp.htm > > > Another way is to create a spanning archive with Winzip under Wine and > then use Winzip to reconstitute it in Windows > > Regards > > Mark And thanks for that URL or, more generally, http://www.computerhope.com That looks like a good place to poke around in when out of my depth in foreign territory! Best wishes, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <ted.harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 04-Apr-07 Time: 12:24:42 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

1 0

How to put newlines or returns in a shell variable *and* check they're there?
by Chris G 03 Apr '07

03 Apr '07

I want to set a variable in a shell (bash) script with a newline as one of the characters. First question, how do you do it? Second question, how do you prove it's there once you've done it? I *think* there are several fairly obvious ways of doing it, e.g. things like:- export fred="abcde ghijk" However the problem is that using 'echo' to see what you have done is totally useless as echo does so many clever things under the cover that you don't get to see what's actually in the variable at all. If you do the above and then say "echo $fred" you just get:- abcde ghijk Harrumph! *Surely* there's some way of saying "show me what's really in this variable/string" (a bit like 'od' but for variables). -- Chris Green

4 10

bt home hub - how to setup ubuntu to recognise modem
by elc＠freeola.net 02 Apr '07

02 Apr '07

JT I stand advised re your first para. Currently connected to my main machine via usb is an epson 680 printer, a wireless optical mouse, and of course the bt wireless home hub . Also on occasion I plug in and use Integral flash drive memory sticks. All of these are working well in windows and linux, with the exception that is, of the home hub in linux. Eric Eric, As an asside, please post replys to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk because that way other people can step in with advice... Ok, what we need to work out is whether or not your USB is actually working. Now this might be simple as turning it on - but are you aware of any other USB devices working ok in linux (for example, your USB keyboard or USB mouse or USB printer or anything (any one of these working suggests that USB hotplug stuff will be enabled and thats all ok).. If thats all ok, then it might be as simple as configuring it as a USB network card, to which I would have to pass you over to someone else on the list for that... As for wireless network cards (usb ones) not all of them are erm "compatible" with linux or are very hard to configure where some are very much so (due to openness of hardware spec and manufacturers niceness towards open source community) so someone on the list can suggest good ones that will work in Linux and Windows. JT > Currently I am connected via usb, in due course I'm contemplating > buying a usb wireless dongle for this (my main pc) and also one for my > other pc also running windows. > > As I said, I'm an utter newbie to linux; - what is this gui-wireless > setup stuff? > > Thanks > Eric > > James Taylor wrote: >> Can you please provide more information. Are you using the hub >> wirelessly or is it on an eithernet connection or a usb connection? >> >> If its wireless, does your linux recognise the computers wireless >> card [is the wirless carrd usb? can you see other usb devices?] >> >> What do your default gui-wireless setup things tell you? >> >> Thanks >> JT >> >> >>> Help please. >>> I have a British Telecom broadband wireless bt home hub, - it works >>> well with windows, but I am dual booting with Ubuntu/Kubuntu and >>> neither is recognising this modem, and thus can't get online. >>> Can anyone tell me in very simple words how to do this - I am an >>> absolute newbie to linux. >>> Many thanks. >>> Eric

1 0

Syleham Kit meet on Sunday
by samwise 02 Apr '07

02 Apr '07

OK, So the Syleham Kit meet is still on this coming weekend? What time do things kick-off / finish? Peter.

7 13

Any NFS experts out there
by Charles Garcia-Tobin 02 Apr '07

02 Apr '07

Hi there I'm trying to set up my NFS mount options so that if my server goes down, the file access fails as immediately as possible. Instead it seems to hang forever. Currently I have the following: rw,nolock,soft,intr,timeou=1,retrans=1 With these option I can get the mount either fail or succeed instantly which is great. But if the server goes down, and the client tries to access a file, or cd into the mount, it just hangs forever. Ideally it would also fail quickly. I am mounting via autofs files from a server that is not always turned on. Global warming and big electric bill!! Any ideas welcome Cheers Charles

3 3

Printing problems from Firefox
by Chris G 02 Apr '07

02 Apr '07

Is it just me or is Firefox's printing rather broken? When I print a web page from Firefox I rarely get to see ethe whole page printed on the printer. If it's really small (i.e. fits on a single sheet) it's OK but otherwise it's useless. For example I'm currently trying to print out some instructions for loadspeaker repair. They are at:- http://www.audiofriends.nl/refoaming/ When I print this from firefox what I get is a sheet of paper with the headings on it (and nothing else), then a second sheet with the first part of the document and then two blank sheets. Firefox seems incapable of printing one web page on multiple sheets. -- Chris Green

4 4

Re: [ALUG] bt home hub - how to setup ubuntu to recognise modem
by James Taylor 01 Apr '07

01 Apr '07

Eric, As an asside, please post replys to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk because that way other people can step in with advice... Ok, what we need to work out is whether or not your USB is actually working. Now this might be simple as turning it on - but are you aware of any other USB devices working ok in linux (for example, your USB keyboard or USB mouse or USB printer or anything (any one of these working suggests that USB hotplug stuff will be enabled and thats all ok).. If thats all ok, then it might be as simple as configuring it as a USB network card, to which I would have to pass you over to someone else on the list for that... As for wireless network cards (usb ones) not all of them are erm "compatible" with linux or are very hard to configure where some are very much so (due to openness of hardware spec and manufacturers niceness towards open source community) so someone on the list can suggest good ones that will work in Linux and Windows. JT ----- Original Message ----- From: <elc(a)freeola.net> To: "James Taylor" <jt(a)imen.org.uk> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [ALUG] bt home hub - how to setup ubuntu to recognise modem > Currently I am connected via usb, in due course I'm contemplating buying a > usb wireless dongle for this (my main pc) and also one for my other pc > also running windows. > > As I said, I'm an utter newbie to linux; - what is this gui-wireless setup > stuff? > > Thanks > Eric > > James Taylor wrote: >> Can you please provide more information. Are you using the hub wirelessly >> or is it on an eithernet connection or a usb connection? >> >> If its wireless, does your linux recognise the computers wireless card >> [is the wirless carrd usb? can you see other usb devices?] >> >> What do your default gui-wireless setup things tell you? >> >> Thanks >> JT >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: <elc(a)freeola.net> >> To: "ALUG" <main(a)lists.alug.org.uk> >> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 11:12 PM >> Subject: [ALUG] bt home hub - how to setup ubuntu to recognise modem >> >> >>> Help please. >>> I have a British Telecom broadband wireless bt home hub, - it works well >>> with windows, but I am dual booting with Ubuntu/Kubuntu and neither is >>> recognising this modem, and thus can't get online. >>> Can anyone tell me in very simple words how to do this - I am an >>> absolute newbie to linux. >>> Many thanks. >>> Eric >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> main(a)lists.alug.org.uk >>> http://www.alug.org.uk/ >>> http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main >>> Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above! >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> main(a)lists.alug.org.uk >> http://www.alug.org.uk/ >> http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main >> Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above! >> >> >

1 0

bt home hub - how to setup ubuntu to recognise modem
by elc＠freeola.net 31 Mar '07

31 Mar '07

Help please. I have a British Telecom broadband wireless bt home hub, - it works well with windows, but I am dual booting with Ubuntu/Kubuntu and neither is recognising this modem, and thus can't get online. Can anyone tell me in very simple words how to do this - I am an absolute newbie to linux. Many thanks. Eric

2 1

MoBo disposal
by Paul 30 Mar '07

30 Mar '07

In response to a comment made by Noodles @ FC last night, I have some motherboards up for grabs/trade - These are all bare, i.e. no memory, no CPU, and no manuals. Asus P5P800 for Intel skt 775. supports dual SATA drives.. MSI K8N Neo for AMD64 skt 939 - quad SATA drives & RAID.. pcChips M871G for AMD Athlon 64/Sempron skt 754 - dual SATA.. pcChips M863AG for AMD Athlon XP/Sempron..[with manual] ECS KN1 Extreme Lite - for AMD64 skt 939 - dual SATA..[with manual] Regards, Paul. P.S. Got a couple of processors kicking around, so *might* end up using two of the above boards to upgrade my server(s).

1 0

Re: Gnome/GTK file open dialog hangs
by Chris G 30 Mar '07

30 Mar '07

On Thu, Mar 29, 2007 at 09:24:42PM +0100, Chris G wrote: > Yet another reason to hate the Gnome/GTK file open dialog. > > On my system it is now taking more than 30 seconds to open the file > opening window. What's it trying to do for all this time and/or how > can I fix it? > > Presumably it's trying to open something that isn't there or there is > a broken nfs/network link of some sort but it's a broken design that > hangs for such a long time trying to do something and doesn't tell me > what's wrong either. > After a bit of searching around I found what the problem was, an smbmount that had lost what it was mounting. However it wasn't as if it was set up to be visible on the file open dialog, it was just the contents of a sub-directory that had gone AWOL. I now hate that file dialog even more than I did when it first appeared, not only is it a pain to use, it's semi-broken as well. -- Chris Green

7 20

Internet radios
by Jonathan McDowell 30 Mar '07

30 Mar '07

For a while I've been wanting a stand alone, self contained device that can play music over an 802.11b/g wireless link - something in the style of a radio, with built in speaker(s), display and control. Recently I discovered such devices exist - Currys in the centre of Norwich have the Logik IR100 radio and there are also variants by BT and Bush. Does anyone on the list have any experience of any of these? I'm slightly wary of the Logik only having a single speaker, but given my main intended usage location is the kitchen I suspect I'm not going to miss the lack of stereo. J. -- Revd. Jonathan McDowell, ULC | Funny how life imitates LSD.

2 4

Gnome/GTK file open dialog hangs
by Chris G 29 Mar '07

29 Mar '07

Yet another reason to hate the Gnome/GTK file open dialog. On my system it is now taking more than 30 seconds to open the file opening window. What's it trying to do for all this time and/or how can I fix it? Presumably it's trying to open something that isn't there or there is a broken nfs/network link of some sort but it's a broken design that hangs for such a long time trying to do something and doesn't tell me what's wrong either. -- Chris Green

1 0

Strategies for setting DISPLAY variable?
by Chris G 29 Mar '07

29 Mar '07

Does anyone have any neat/elegant/clever ways of setting the DISPLAY variable when working in a situation where I may use X in different places and want to run X applications from different remote machines? Usually I am doing the following:- Logging on to my desktop Linux box called chrisg and starting the X server there. Running local X client applications on chrisg. Running remote X client applications on Solaris and other boxes which I want to display on chrisg OK, so to do the above I can simply hardcode DISPLAY=chrisg:0.0 in my .profile and all will be well. However.... Sometimes I want to use a different desktop machine at work or I want to work from home. This results in two different requirements:- The first case (using a different machine at work) means that my hard-coded DISPLAY=chrisg:0.0 will always be wrong. The second case (working from home) I will be using 'ssh -X' to connect so ssh will be setting the DISPLAY variable and I don't want anything else to change it. So how is one *supposed* to make this all work? I need some way to get DISPLAY set correctly most of the time, I'd go crazy if I had to set it manually every time I rlogin to another machine here at work. I typically have five or six xterms open to Solaris boxes for example. Currently having it hardcoded in my .profile works 'most of the time' but it's then a big pain sorting out the ssh use because the special ssh value for DISPLAY is lost. -- Chris Green

4 5

Is it possible to explitly ask for what mod_autoindex produces?
by Chris G 29 Mar '07

29 Mar '07

I'd like to have a way of viewing the directory that mod_autoindex produces of a directory that has an index.html file. E.g. I go to:- http://www.isbd.net/someDirectory and I get to see the contents of the index.html file that's there. However there's various other files, not linked to from index.html, that I want to be able to see and/or use sometimes. So it would be very useful if I could get to see the directory listing that I would see if the index.html file didn't exist. This is just for my home system's web server and for my own use so security/performance isn't a big issue and I can hack the httpd.conf file as much as I like. -- Chris Green

3 2

Re: [ALUG] Strategies for setting DISPLAY variable?
by Steve 28 Mar '07

28 Mar '07

>So how is one *supposed* to make this all work? I need some way to >get DISPLAY set correctly most of the time, I'd go crazy if I had to >set it manually every time I rlogin to another machine here at work. I >typically have five or six xterms open to Solaris boxes for example. >Currently having it hardcoded in my .profile works 'most of the time' >but it's then a big pain sorting out the ssh use because the special >ssh value for DISPLAY is lost. I'm sure there must be some environment variable or other that gets set if you're logging in to your machine remotely that doesn't get set if you log in directly. Set DISPLAY from .profile depending on the value of that variable? Or... you could grep ps for your /(ba)?sh/ instance and see if it's running on a real vt or not... summat like that. *clutches at straws* Steve

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