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Re: [ALUG] www.alug - request for adoption
by Simon 13 Jul '06

13 Jul '06

Hello all, I will adopt the site, unless anyone else desperately wants to.. As some people know, I've just finished my first year of university so I've got nothing else to do at the moment. ;) I'll bring the site up to speed with current affairs and do a general spring (or summer) clean and take it from there. -Simon MJ Ray wrote: > Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:40:56 +0100 From: MJ Ray > <mjr(a)phonecoop.coop> Subject: [ALUG] www.alug - request for adoption > To: <main(a)lists.alug.org.uk> Message-ID: > <E1G0Ffk-0008Vo-00(a)pipe.localnet.towers.org.uk> As some of you know, > the time I have for ALUG is shrinking again. So, I am looking for > someone to take over www.alug. As most of the other contributors or > likely suspects either already do multiple tasks for ALUG or have left > the area, I'm asking the list first. Personally, I'd prefer new local > help. Hope that's OK. Let the list know what you will do with the site > how and when, everyone argue (politely) for a few days and then let's > see if there's one person agreed on to take it forwards. If there's > any questions about the current html/ssh/cgi/ftp setup (as that may > affect the decision), let me know and I'll answer if no-one beats me > to it. If there's wild disagreement, the hidden powers will make a > random decision and see if it sticks. ;-) Thanks, > --

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Re: [ALUG] www.alug - request for adoption
by John Seago 12 Jul '06

12 Jul '06

On Wednesday 12 July 2006 12:00 Simon <simon(a)sionide.net> wrote: > Hello all, > > I will adopt the site, unless anyone else desperately wants to.. As some > people know, I've just finished my first year of university so I've got > nothing else to do at the moment. ;) I'll bring the site up to speed > with current affairs and do a general spring (or summer) clean and take > it from there. What happens when you finish University? Will we be back at the same point in another 2 years? -- John Seago GNU/Linux Registered User No. #219566 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments

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www.alug - request for adoption
by MJ Ray 11 Jul '06

11 Jul '06

As some of you know, the time I have for ALUG is shrinking again. So, I am looking for someone to take over www.alug. As most of the other contributors or likely suspects either already do multiple tasks for ALUG or have left the area, I'm asking the list first. Personally, I'd prefer new local help. Hope that's OK. Let the list know what you will do with the site how and when, everyone argue (politely) for a few days and then let's see if there's one person agreed on to take it forwards. If there's any questions about the current html/ssh/cgi/ftp setup (as that may affect the decision), let me know and I'll answer if no-one beats me to it. If there's wild disagreement, the hidden powers will make a random decision and see if it sticks. ;-) Thanks, -- MJ Ray - personal email, see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Work: http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ irc.oftc.net/slef Jabber/SIP ask

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[ALUG Announce] 2nd Thursday Norwich Meet : Reindeer, Dereham Road
by Jonathan McDowell 10 Jul '06

10 Jul '06

ALUG Announce Please send announcements to Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce ----- The monthly "Second Thursday" ALUG Norwich Pub Meet is this Thursday, 13th July. It's at the Reindeer pub on the Dereham Road, just opposite the City Gate. People will be there from 8pm-ish, though there may be a few people there earlier. I may be a little late myself. Topics for discussion will no doubt be as varied as ever. The Reindeer has a reasonable selection of beer as well as decent coffee (with biscuits, if you're lucky). Directions to the Reindeer can be found at: http://www.alug.org.uk/venues/reindeer.html Pictures of some of the regulars, and irregulars, and, well, just some pictures of people that might or might not turn up are available from: http://www.earth.li/~noodles/Photos/2006-02-ALUG/ http://the.earth.li/~noodles/stilvoid-alug/mp20050811/ http://www.earth.li/~noodles/Photos/2005-01-ALUG-Xmas/ http://www.earth.li/~noodles/Photos/2004-08-ALUG/ Which should hopefully aid those of you wondering who to look out for. We're /normally/ just to the left of the main entrance, though sometimes we've ended up at the far end of the pub beside the pool table, as there are comfy seats at that end. J. -- noodles is the only noodle house in cleveland ----- Send discussion replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk (Reply-To set) Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce

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Mail hosting recommendations wanted
by chrisisbd＠leary.csoft.net 10 Jul '06

10 Jul '06

My present web hosting is becoming a bit iffy, the web hosting isn't very important but Maxine relies on the mail for her business so I'm looking for alternatives. What I'm after is:- Hosting one domain, basically for E-Mail but very basic web hosting would be welcome too (domain I already own, either isbd.net or isbd.co.uk). Unlimited POP3 and IMAP mailboxes for the hosted domain. Ideally Linux/Unix shell login but at the very least web based management for the E-Mail. Web mail access to the mailboxes. A *lot* of space for E-Mail, several hundred megabytes at the very least, don't mind buying this as an extra but it has to be reasonably cheap. Prefer UK based because I feel that it will be marginally quicker, I'm willing to be dissuaded though. I'm happy to pay a reasonable amount for this but not a silly amount, i.e. I think anything more than around £100/year is definitely excessive. Places I've considered are:- Areti Internet (because I know their support etc. is excellent), but too expensive really, especially £30 per IMAP and £80 per year for an additional 100MB. Gradwell, good reputation but moderately expensive. Do it myself on my Slackware Linux box at home, very cheap! However there are support issues (i.e. my time) and I don't get the warm feeling of mail being backed up 'off site'. csoft.net which I currently use for my own E-Mail, reasonable price (I'd step up from my current $60/year to $120/year to get a domain hosted) and support is good so far. The $120/year account includes 2Gb of disk space which is more than ample! However they are in Canada. A company similar to Csoft based in the UK would be my perfect solution, they appear to be a techie company which has learned how to sell itself as well. -- Chris Green (chrisisbd(a)leary.csoft.net)

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Brett Parker 10 Jul '06

10 Jul '06

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. Historically, these used to be the only time a lot of us would be about, now the channel has some usual faces that are there most of the time (except at silly o'clock, when we might be sleeping, or on the second thursday of the month, where we might be drinking in the Reindeer), so don't feel limited to visit during this time, come visit us when ever you feel like it! The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include xchat, irssi and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://www.irssi.org/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Linix & Windows 2003 Emergency support
by Mark Stangroom 07 Jul '06

07 Jul '06

We are the Students Union at the University of East Anglia. We run a combination of Linux Servers & Windows 2003 servers and Windows XP workstations. We are looking for an individual or company with experience of some or all of the following: SuSE Linux Samba MySQL PostgreSQL Apache Zope Arkeia Rdiff Windows 2003 Windows XP Office 2003 to act as an emergency on call support for when i am on leave or unavailable. Applicants must be extremely reliable and trustworthy. This is just an informal feeler to see if anyone can provide this support in the first instance. Thanks Mark -- Mark Stangroom IT support Union of UEA Students t: 01603 592503 e: m.stangroom(a)uea.ac.uk

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Why Linux
by Ian bell 07 Jul '06

07 Jul '06

I recently read Cliff Stoll's excellent book 'The Cuckoo's Egg' about tracking early net crackers in the late 80s. It got me thinking about BSD Unix (Stoll was at Berkley using a very early BSD Unix). From what I can gather it was BSD's law suit with AT&T that allowed Torvald's kernel to take the high ground which resulted in Linux being the most popular Unix based OS today. However, for me, the core of Linux is seriously disparate - endless kernel revisions, each distro with its own patches, file layout, start up scripts, endless dependency issues and so on. So I was very pleased to find this is not the case with the various BSD flavours. In fact I have just installed NetBSD on an old PC. It has a single source code tree that compiles on 57 different platforms which says a lot about the quality of the code. Its pkgsrc app is what gentoo is modeled on apparently and there are over 5000 apps to choose from (nearly as many as Debian).I am seriously tempted to roll it out across my other PCs. Ian

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FW: A Directory of OSS Suppliers in South East
by MJ Ray 07 Jul '06

07 Jul '06

Please reply to him not me. And s/OSS/Free Software/g. Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 14:49:49 +0100 From: "Matthew Edmondson" <Matthew.Edmondson(a)ncc.co.uk> Subject: A Directory of OSS Suppliers in South East Hi, I am posting to invite those of us who work with Open Source in the Voluntary Commmunity Sector to be included in a directory of OSS suppliers (tech support, consultants, trainers, circuit riders etc). There has been a significant investment in ICT support for groups in the voluntary community sector (VCS) from the government. One result of this is the ICTHub, the website of which was lanched last week. Within this, I hope to raise the profile of OSS and benefits that it can bring to the VCS. The OSS directory partly aims to dispel one of those OSS myths - "there is no support"! This directory will also feed into a national, quality assured, directory of generic ICT support available to the VCS through the ICTHub. We are looking to publish an initial (regional) version of this directory by 12th July - The ICT Hub and GMCVO South East Regional Conference. If you would like to be included then please mail me ASAP with your contact details, as defined at the bottom of this mail. Further to this I will mail you with the alpha version, and again later on to enhance/update the information as the directory grows. Having been a 'circuit rider' myself I know the hassle of 'spam' (email, phone, etc) - so I will look after your contact details and only publish them where you have given specific permission. There are a number of other ways that we are attempting to assist OSS uptake in the VCS. Most of these are to do with supporting the IT professionals themselves. It would also be helpful if you were able to include leads (or forward this) to other companies/organisations/folk within the region who also provide such services to charities that may currently be outside the "community loop", Many thanks, Matthew Edmondson Open Source Consultant - ICT Hub To find out about the ICT Hub: - http://www.icthub.org.uk A flyer for the Event is here: - http://f2.futurate.net:8080/cms/opencms/icthub/events/documents/South_East_… Fields for Contact Details Organisation Name Type (Company, Social Enterprise, Charity, Voluntary Group, Community Group, NGO) Skills(What services do you offer?) Phone Fax general email URL Address City County Postal Code Contact(s) within organisation First_Name Last_Name Title Role Office Phone Mobile Phone Email Permission to publish information on 12th July on paper

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Migration away from LVM
by Dan Hatton 06 Jul '06

06 Jul '06

Does anyone know how to convert an LVM logical volume into a real partition, please? (Why would I want to do this weird thing? Because it's my swap partition, and I want to be able to load suspend2 saved states from it without having to have an initrd.) I've tried running swapoff -a, followed by the lvremove command within LVM, but LVM refuses to remove the partition, complaining that it's "open." Thanks very much. -- Regards, Dan

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Help with script for ssh exploit attempts
by Laurie Brown 06 Jul '06

06 Jul '06

Hi, I could use a little help with some scripting. My perl/python is rudimentary, and bash not a lot better, but I'm sure this isn't too hard to do... We get a lot (read thousands a day) of these lines in logs on all the machines we support, including our own: Jul 6 16:53:24 xxx sshd[1628]: Invalid user chris from 202.202.43.110 It's a script kiddie trying to take advantage of an exploit in SSH. We use key-based authentication only, on SSH V2, so no real risk there, but it's annoying. What I'd like to do is monitor the logs for such a line (or maybe three on the trot), and immediately do this: /sbin/route add -host 202.202.43.110 reject which will lock them out until a restart. Any help appreciated! Cheers, Laurie. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Laurie Brown laurie(a)brownowl.com --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Hosting mail in a different place from web pages
by chrisisbd＠leary.csoft.net 06 Jul '06

06 Jul '06

Is it possibe to have mail hosted in a 'different place' from where web pages are hosted? That's a bit of a vague question, I'll expand:- I own several domains, the two relevant ones are isbd.co.uk and isbd.net. Currently everything to do with these two domains is hosted with BsNet (essentially the same as x-1.net) they are fine for the web hosting side of things and anyway that's not so important at present but we do have occasional hiccoughs with E-Mail. Is it possible to move all E-mail to somewhere else? I.e. to keep the web hosting unchanged where it is but to remove all E-Mail from BsNet? I suspect it's something to do with MX records and things like that, I do have access to and the ability to modify the zone file, is that what needs to be changed? In fact I may as well show the current zone file for isbd.net:- $TTL 86400 @ IN SOA ns0.futile.net. root.futile.net. ( 2003011901 ; serial 28800 ; refresh 3600 ; retry 604800 ; expiry 86400 ) ; minimum ; IN NS ns0.futile.net. IN NS ns1.futile.net. IN MX 10 mx1.mail.bsnet.co.uk. IN MX 100 foundation.bsnet.co.uk. IN MX 200 relay.bsnet.co.uk. ; IN A ip.address.of.host ; localhost IN A 127.0.0.1 ; this is a commented out line So it's easy enough to change thos MX records but presumably the places they point at will need some configuration to so that they accept mail for xxx(a)isbd.net and do something useful with it. Any good tutorial/howto pages for this anywhere? -- Chris Green (chrisisbd(a)leary.csoft.net)

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Re: Why Linux?
by John Seago 06 Jul '06

06 Jul '06

On Thursday 06 July 2006 10:58 am, Ian bell <ianbell(a)ukfsn.org> wrote: <snip> > However, for me, the core of Linux is seriously disparate - endless > kernel revisions, each distro with its own patches, file layout, start > up scripts, endless dependency issues and so on. So I was very pleased > to find this is not the case with the various BSD flavours. In fact I > have just installed NetBSD on an old PC. It has a single source code > tree that compiles on 57 different platforms which says a lot about > the quality of the code. Its pkgsrc app is what gentoo is modeled on > apparently and there are over 5000 apps to choose from (nearly as many > as Debian). Is 5000 "nearly as many as Debian", which has over 15490 packages? It would seem to be over 10490 short of "nearly". > I am seriously tempted to roll it out across my other PCs. That is the main advantage of *free* software, everyone has the freedom to choose. One is not 'locked' into any particular software. the whole gamut as laid out here: http://www.freeos.com/ and probably several other URL's as well, HURD is one which comes to mind and I'm sure there are others, the 'Tunes' project for instance. All provide variety and *choice*. -- John Seago GNU/Linux Registered User No. #219566 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments

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escaping a "!" in a bash shell
by Jenny Hopkins 06 Jul '06

06 Jul '06

Hullo there, I'm trying to echo a command to a serial port that happens to require a "!". In order to send the command I need to escape the ! with a backslash. However, I'm finding that at the other end, the backslash stays there rather than being stripped off, so the received command is also escaped and therefore doesn't work. Emulated on a terminal: I send jenny@phaedrus:~$ echo "\!tts MALE" > /dev/ttyp2 and receive \!tts MALE But I need to receive !tts MALE Any hints on how to acheive this? Thanks, Jenny

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NeXT computers seek loving home
by Richard Lewis 06 Jul '06

06 Jul '06

Hello ALUG, We've been having a bit of a clear-out and my boss was about to throw out a pair of NeXT computers. Luckily, one of the post grads and I managed to get to them in time. We've had a look over them and this is the inventory: NeXTcube N1000 [1] ================== CPU: MC68040 25 MHz RAM 16MB (4 x 4MB SIMMs) notes: * This machine would not boot properly. It sounds the like HDD may be corrupt. * The back panel is split at the top NeXTstation N1100 [2] ===================== CPU: MC68040 25 MHz ? RAM: ??MB (8 x ??MB SIMMs) notes: * The power supply [3] from this machine apparently broke some time ago and is missing. * Therefore, this machine is untested. NeXT MegaPixelDisplay monitor N4000 =================================== NeXT MegaPixelDisplay monitor N4000A ==================================== 2 x NeXT keyboard ABQ ===================== Part No. 2230 2 x NeXT mouse AFF ================== So, in summary, its a complete NeXTcube and a complete NeXTstation neither of which we've been able to boot. The cube was willing to boot from its network card but we decided not to try to install Debian or NetBSD[4] or anything as doing that may be part of the attraction of owning the machine for someone. Also, someone interested in NeXT hardware may be able to recover the NeXTstep OS. Possibly. The machines were given to the studio director at the UEA Music School some time ago because, apparently, they have a collection of IRCAM[5] software on. If anyone is interested in these machines then let me know within a week or so and you can come a take them away for nothing. We decided that we'd rather they were given away to a good home that just dumped. If there's no interest then we'll try selling them on eBay but we'd like to avoid the hassle if possible (the cube is extremely heavy; built from some magnesium alloy[6]!). Let me know! Cheers, Richard PS. Tim Berners-Lee developed Web and HTTP on a NeXTcube! [1] http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/reach/435/nextcube.htm [2] http://old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=555 [3] http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~heller/NeXT/power_supply_repair.html [4] http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/network/netboot/intro.next68k.html [5] http://www.ircam.fr/?L=1 [6] http://photo.simson.net/hacks/cubefire.html -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Richard Lewis Sonic Arts Research Archive http://www.sara.uea.ac.uk/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

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Barcode reader error with Belkin KVM
by Jenny Hopkins 04 Jul '06

04 Jul '06

Hullo there, I fixed a problem that has introduced another problem. I admin a bank of 8 computers running debian stable, kernel 2.6.1, which were connected to a Belkin KVM via PS2. From there we have an ordinary PS2 mouse, and a PS2 keyboard with splitter to a barcode reader. We started getting problems with the mouse going completely bananas. I googled the problem being a known one with Belkin KVM switches and 2.6 kernels, and Belkin then suggested we tried using a USB connection between PC and KVM to stop the problem. This has stopped the mad mouse kernel problems, but now I find that the barcode reader isn't working properly - either no string at all or only half the code is appearing when I bleep. I can't find any errors reported ithe logs, so it seems that the information maybe isn't even getting past the KVM. The keyboard seems to be working correctly. Has anyone any idea of what could be going on? Thanks, Jenny

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Faulty USB ports?
by Nick Daniels 03 Jul '06

03 Jul '06

Hi I have my sisters computer, dual boot Suse/windows. Both Linux and widows indicate that the USB ports are configured, but no USB devices are configured or found when plugging in. Not even the "light" comes on with a USB mouse or USB external drive etc. Have tried Knoppix with same results. Is it possible that all the USB ports have failed? Have checked on Google and only found reference to this with one specific MSI motherboard, this is an Asus Is there anything else I can try or have overlooked? Kind Regards

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Brett Parker 03 Jul '06

03 Jul '06

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. Historically, these used to be the only time a lot of us would be about, now the channel has some usual faces that are there most of the time (except at silly o'clock, when we might be sleeping, or on the second thursday of the month, where we might be drinking in the Reindeer), so don't feel limited to visit during this time, come visit us when ever you feel like it! The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include xchat, irssi and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://www.irssi.org/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Belkin switch dodgy?
by Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 02 Jul '06

02 Jul '06

Hi Folks, I recently bought a Belkin 10/100 5-port ethernet switch (product number F5D5131-5). It works for a few minutes (less than 5) and then the LEDs for the ports that cables are plugged into go out, after which it is useless. If I pull out the power supply plug, wait a few seconds, then plug it back, it starts up again OK, but again goes belly-up after a few minutes. Does anyone recognise this behaviour on the part of Belkin switches? (I'm not really looking for a cure, since I reckon the unit is duff, though if anyone has cured such a thing then it would be good to know; there's a possible overheating issue since despite being well aired it feels pretty warm when running). What I'm really concerned about is whether one can expect this sort of thing from a Belkin, since if so I shall be avoiding it when I replace it. (The fly in the ointment is that I bought it from PC World, but seem to have lost the b****y receipt!) With thanks, and best wishes to all, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 30-Jun-06 Time: 20:21:14 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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New wireless router problem
by Ian bell 27 Jun '06

27 Jun '06

I just upgraded my wireless router becuase the old one kept dropping the line now I have an ADSL MAX connection. Glad to say the new one holds up much better. However, it connects via wireless no problem to the two Windows PCs in the network but I have had a lot of trouble connecting my Slackware laptop to it. The laptop has a Cisco Aeronet PCMCIA wireless card theat is 802.11b - one of a pair I got off an ALUG member. It has worked fine until now. I am running Slackware current. During boot the PCMCIA module finds the card as usual and sets it off. However, as soon as hotplug strarts it gets turned off again. ifconfig does not show it but iwconfig does - presumably showing the PCMCIA setup. no amount of command line jiggerry pokery will get it going for n=anything more than a few seconds. So I disabled hotplug during boot and sure enough the card stays on but is not connected. A quick ifconfig eth0 up followed by dhcpcd eth0 gets it going. So as a temporary measure I can place these commands in rc.local - must do that as soon as I have sent this - but what I need to know is what is hotplug doing to upset things? The strange thing is that it all worked fine with the old modem. Any ideas? Ian

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Amarok Context Browser
by Wayne Stallwood 27 Jun '06

27 Jun '06

In previous versions of Amarok I had a pane in the context browser that offered tracks I might like to listen to based on whatever the current track was. I have a huge diverse collection and this feature was actually quite good at highlighting music I might like to play next (in fact the killer feature it was missing was the ability to feed the current playlist so that I got unattended non-stop but relevant music from my collection). In the version installed by Dapper (1.3.9) this feature seems to have vanished (or at least it is off by default and I can't work out how to turn it on) Anyone know if it can still be enabled ?

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ALUG annual dinner
by sfr 26 Jun '06

26 Jun '06

I know, it's a bit late for the Christmas dinner. St Peters' Brewery has bookings available on Fridays in July - 14th, 21st, 28th. Information is at http://www.stpetersbrewery.co.uk/hall/restaurant.htm. The menu is reckoned by locals to be absolutely fantastic. Volunteers to eat, please take one email forward. And state your preference for date. -- Elisabeth

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Brett Parker 26 Jun '06

26 Jun '06

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. Historically, these used to be the only time a lot of us would be about, now the channel has some usual faces that are there most of the time (except at silly o'clock, when we might be sleeping, or on the second thursday of the month, where we might be drinking in the Reindeer), so don't feel limited to visit during this time, come visit us when ever you feel like it! The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include xchat, irssi and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://www.irssi.org/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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List weirdness
by Wayne Stallwood 25 Jun '06

25 Jun '06

Just got a bounce from the main list. But the subject it mentions I haven't sent an email with since the end of May and that message did show on the list...I did cause a bounce on the Amarok message because I accidentally sent it from the wrong account at 1.51PM..I got the bounce for that and resent it from the right account. But this bounce turned up at 5:06 PM today. Can one of the list admins tell me what happened ? Your mail to 'main' with the subject Bletchley Park Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. The reason it is being held: Message has a suspicious header Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel this posting, please visit the following URL:

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Laptops, desktops, and UPS
by Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 23 Jun '06

23 Jun '06

Hi Folks, I thought I'd push out for comment a thoguht which I've been pondering from time to time. A laptop is pretty nearly immune to mains supply failure, since its battery provides a backup and modern laptops can shutdown on low battery. Desktops, on the other hand, need an external UPS to guard it against mains failure; and of course a UPS can be configured to signal the computer to shut down if the power cut lasts more than a certain time. But it has occurred to me that there's no obvious reason why a desktop can't have its own internal battery like a laptop, and I'm wonderign why they don't. Of course, laptop batteries are notorious for not having a very long useful life -- you can be lucky, in some cases, if you get 5 years out of one. And they're even more notorious for being horrendously expensive to replace, if indeed you can still find one by the time yours fails. But I'd have thought that the space available in a desktop would offer scope for a more robust and cheaper solution. (In passing -- I have an ancient laptop whose battery has been shot for years, which however works well if you plug 12v DC into its PS socket; so I've happily been using it in "away from the mains" situations by attaching it to a motorcycle battery which weighs less than 4 pounds -- 1.7kgm -- so is within my definition of "portable"). So a robust lead-acid battery of the appropriate voltage could be installed into a desktop, if the appropriate circuitry were present in the box's PSU, and would presumably last longer, be easier to replace if necessary, and cost much less. Does anyone know of desktop boxes which do this? Thanks, and best wishes to all, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 23-Jun-06 Time: 15:18:44 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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