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Disk usage
by Wayne Stallwood 19 Jun '06

19 Jun '06

I think this question may have come up on the list before, but I can't find an answer in the archives. /dev/sda3 111G 102G 3.1G 98% /home Why is my free space only shown as 3.1G if I have used 102G out of 111 ? BTW Windows Vista is a disk space hog, a clean installation into a virtual machine took 8GB (minus 840MB for virtual memory) That's before you add any apps (and office 12 is Huge)

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Brett Parker 19 Jun '06

19 Jun '06

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. Historically, these used to be the only time a lot of us would be about, now the channel has some usual faces that are there most of the time (except at silly o'clock, when we might be sleeping, or on the second thursday of the month, where we might be drinking in the Reindeer), so don't feel limited to visit during this time, come visit us when ever you feel like it! The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include xchat, irssi and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://www.irssi.org/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Dual boot woes
by Simon Jude 15 Jun '06

15 Jun '06

Hello, Please can I pick peoples brains?! I've managed to kill off my MBR during a linux install on a machine with XP on it. I initially installed Fedora and got Grub error 17 messages on bootup. I've since installed Suse10 on it but get the same problem (error 18 this time). Evidently I should be able to install lilo from suse but this gives errors. I've also tried the XP recovery disk to fix the mbr but it doesn't recognise my password (a normal user with admin privilages). Can anybody possibly suggest a fix to this?! Thanks Simon

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Lifetime of CD/DVDs?
by Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 15 Jun '06

15 Jun '06

Hi Folks, I often to use CDs to back up archival files. No problems so far. However, I've heard tell that CDs can degrade over time and that times of the order of 4 years might be the point where they start to get dodgy. Is this the case? If so, does it vary with the brand/type of CD? And does something similar apply to DVDs? Thanks, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 09-Jun-06 Time: 19:30:10 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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Re:Permission Denied DVD
by Nick Daniels 14 Jun '06

14 Jun '06

On Wednesday 14 June 2006 17:47, you wrote: > OK, I'll soon be out of my depth (hardware has never appealed to me much, I > wish computers didn't have it...) > I notice in your fstab options for the drive you don't have 'user'. This > may be because all the other options you have (most of which I don't > understand) do the same thing. > > Have you tried mounting a disc manually? > > In case you're not sure about this: > > Insert the disc and cancel KDE's automount message. > > type: > $ mount /dev/hdc Hi Richard Many Thanks nick@linux-nxe0:~> mount /dev/hdc mount: only root can mount /dev/hdc on /media/dvdrecorder nick@linux-nxe0:~> su Password: linux-nxe0:/home/nick # mount /dev/hdc mount: unknown filesystem type 'subfs' With Data DVD inserted, likewise with audio CD inserted, but audio CD Plays! I think I might reinstall, now they have fixed a lot of the package management problems and updater. As an avid Suse user of 8 or so years. I do not consider this the "best" of their distributions Many thanks for help. Kind Regards -Nick Daniels

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Permission Denied DVD
by Nick Daniels 14 Jun '06

14 Jun '06

Hi I have been transferring data files from my DVD rewriter, however yesterday morning I suddenly got message "permission denied" to DVD, as user, and as root. I can play an audio CD from it, also play a video DVD System Suse 10.1x64 Copy of fstab: /dev/hdb1 / reiserfs acl,user_xattr 1 1 /dev/hdb3 /home reiserfs acl,user_xattr 1 2 /dev/hdb5 swap swap defaults 0 0 proc /proc proc defaults 0 0 sysfs /sys sysfs noauto 0 0 debugfs /sys/kernel/debug debugfs noauto 0 0 usbfs /proc/bus/usb usbfs noauto 0 0 devpts /dev/pts devpts mode=0620,gid=5 0 0 /dev/hdc /media/dvdrecorder subfs noauto,fs=cdfss,ro,procuid,nosuid,nodev,exec,iocharset=utf8 0 0 I have installed Vector on a spare Harddrive in same system and all is O.K. Kind Regards - Nick Daniels

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Meeting report: 2nd Thursday Norwich pub meet, 8th June
by Richard Lewis 14 Jun '06

14 Jun '06

ALUG 2nd Thursday Pub Meet Report. Thursday 8th June, 2006 Present were: Paul [paul_c], Richard [ironChicken], Jonathan [Noodles], Simon [sionide], Dave [Paperface], Becca, Mike, Martijn [mak] and John Henson, who is new. The first meeting of the warm weather saw most members in the geek uniform of t-shirts (there may even have been some legs on show) and drinking the colder varieties of beverages. John is new to the LUG and is playing around with SUSE 10 on a laptop which he brought with him. This, of course, solicited much discussion about the relative merits of, and LUGers' personal preferences for, user-friendly distros which continued on and off all evening. A consensus of opinion seem to fall around Ubuntu. Martijn was showing off his very desirable Hiptop which, although not running Linux, does have a nice little QWERTY keyboard and good connectivity. Richard babbled incoherently at Jonathan for a time about his current project to write a clone of Apache Cocoon using Python. Sorry, Noodles. Paul lent a book to Dave on Pthreads (which I'm sure was a gripping read) so that he could learn about semaphores as he'd had a problem with them during that day and didn't know what they were. Martijn and Dave discussed Django vs. Rails vs. Java for building web applications. Later on there was discussion of copyright, DRM and music copying in which Jonathan impressed us all with the fact that, apparently, Amstrad were the first company to ship a twin-decked audio cassette recorder and were sued over it by the record companies. This discussion moved on to TV programs and cartoons LUGers are currently watching and to PVRs and the merits of the EyeTV one for the Mac. A pleasent evening all round with a small, but select, group of ALUG members. We look forward to seeing you next time! Cheers, Richard -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Richard Lewis Sonic Arts Research Archive http://www.sara.uea.ac.uk/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

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DLink 624 Wired/Wireless Router For Sale
by Simon Royal 12 Jun '06

12 Jun '06

Hi I am moving and my DLink 624 router is no longer required. Any offers It is a Wired/Wireless router. 802.11g wireless, 4 LAN ports, web configuring superb piece of kit. No longer needed as my new place is not NTL and I purchased an ADSL wired/wireless modem/router. Excellent condition, comes with CD and power cable, plus ethernet cable. Router only, has no built in modem. Kind Regards Simon Royal Kind Regards Simon Royal ---- www.simonroyal.co.uk The box said requires Windows 2000 or better, so I bought an Apple Mac

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Dell XPi Pentium 166 Question
by Simon Royal 12 Jun '06

12 Jun '06

Hi Can anyone tell me whether the Dell XPi Pentium 166MMX laptop has 32bit cardbus ports or just the old 16bit card support? Kind Regards Simon Royal ---- www.simonroyal.co.uk The box said requires Windows 2000 or better, so I bought an Apple Mac

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Which wireless ADSL modem?
by Ian bell 12 Jun '06

12 Jun '06

I currently have an Origo (cheap) wireless modem (802.11b) which was fine until my ADSL connection was upgraded to MAX ADSL (8Mbps max). It is fine much of the time but seems to perform less well with time. A reboot fixes it for a while. So I thought I might upgrade to an 802.11g wireless ADSL modem. I don't actually need any ethernet ports as all PCs in my network (2-off) are connected wirelessly. So I am looking for product recommendations, especially ones known to cope well with the current higher ADSL speeds. (some extra range would be nice too). Ian

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Brett Parker 12 Jun '06

12 Jun '06

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. Historically, these used to be the only time a lot of us would be about, now the channel has some usual faces that are there most of the time (except at silly o'clock, when we might be sleeping, or on the second thursday of the month, where we might be drinking in the Reindeer), so don't feel limited to visit during this time, come visit us when ever you feel like it! The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include xchat, irssi and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://www.irssi.org/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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OOo
by Bob Dove 11 Jun '06

11 Jun '06

Hi folks, >From some-one who has embraced Open Office since ever - 'cos it's not Uncle Bill's, I'm happy that it opens and keeps most of the formatting of MS docs. I use it in preference - but for 'serious' work will use a page setter. Much easier to place graphics and have them stay put on page, so 'Office' is not an imperative. I get docs (from Scout Leaders) using stone age pooters with Office 3 (or so it seems) down to Cub Scouts who really are on top of things with the very latest! Compared with 'doze. 'ux is too complicated for a pointy pressy clicky user but I can cope with 'ux and OOo. God forbid that 'ux and OOo should be clones of doze but 'ux ain't doing much to win doze users over (in my humble opinion of course!) The desktop looks a bit enthusiastic amateur to me - probably why you guys like the command line so much! Personally, I'd like an OSX type desktop - seems cleaner somehow - and it works. Of course, now that clever clogs has ported OSX to PC!!! Cheers, Bob Dove.

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Cuddly Toy Anyone?
by Keith Watson 09 Jun '06

09 Jun '06

http://www.free-penguin.org/ Regards, Keith ____________ Snowflakes are one of nature's most fragile things, but just look at what they can do when they stick together.

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Office 2007
by Wayne Stallwood 09 Jun '06

09 Jun '06

After playing with the beta a bit, I am hoping that OpenOffice doesn't follow the same trend. This new user interface may look slick on a Windows Vista box (BTW Public beta is available for that too) but take it from someone who has been trying to use it in a productive manner for the last few days, it's not that slick to use. I've dumped some screenshots here http://digimatic.plus.com/office/ So the question is, Given that OpenOffice is supposed to be as compatible and familiar as possible for a MS Office user. Will it be forced to adopt this in a similar way...For openoffice what is more important, compatibility and familiarity or getting it "right" ?

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[ALUG Announce] 2nd Thursday Norwich Meet : Reindeer, Dereham Road
by MJ Ray 08 Jun '06

08 Jun '06

ALUG Announce Please send announcements to Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce ----- (I'm still having some problems deferring posts if I discard any, so here's a repost of roughly what I think the lost mail said:- ) From: noodles at earth.li (Jonathan McDowell) Subject: [ALUG Announce] [ALUG] 2nd Thursday Norwich Meet : Reindeer, Dereham Road The monthly "Second Thursday" ALUG Norwich Pub Meet is this Thursday, 8th June. It's at the Reindeer pub on the Dereham Road, just opposite the City Gate. People will be there from 8pm-ish, though there may be a few people there earlier. Topics for discussion will no doubt be as varied as ever. The Reindeer has a reasonable selection of beer as well as decent coffee (with biscuits, if you're lucky). Directions to the Reindeer can be found at: http://www.alug.org.uk/venues/reindeer.html Pictures of some of the regulars, and irregulars, and, well, just some pictures of people that might or might not turn up are available from: http://www.earth.li/~noodles/Photos/2006-02-ALUG/ http://the.earth.li/~noodles/stilvoid-alug/mp20050811/ http://www.earth.li/~noodles/Photos/2005-01-ALUG-Xmas/ http://www.earth.li/~noodles/Photos/2004-08-ALUG/ Which should hopefully aid those of you wondering who to look out for. We're /normally/ just to the left of the main entrance, though sometimes we've ended up at the far end of the pub beside the pool table, as there are comfy seats at that end. J. -- ] http://www.earth.li/~noodles/ [] Where are we going? And WHY ARE [ ] PGP/GPG Key @ the.earth.li [] WE IN THIS HANDBASKET?!! [ ] via keyserver, web or email. [] [ ] RSA: 4DC4E7FD / DSA: 5B430367 [] [ ----- Send discussion replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk (Reply-To set) Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce

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Gtk2 and fonts
by Barry Samuels 07 Jun '06

07 Jun '06

Since I last upgraded my Debian Testing/Etch system some GTK applications, Endeavour2 for example, display a fairly awful font which I cannot change and some others, gFtp for example display a perfectly acceptable font. I have installed the Gtk Theme Engine package which gives me, in theory, the ability to change font/theme for GTK in the KDE Control Centre but whatever I do the font doesn't change. All the KDE fonts are fine. I have both GTK 1 and GTK 2 installed. Some suggestions as to how to fix this would be very welcome. -- Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain

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Evolution
by Mark Ridley 07 Jun '06

07 Jun '06

Howdy all, anyone using Evo in a corporate Windows 2003 OWA style environment? I have a fairly massive mail archive and Evo just constantly hangs. I've tried multiple versions with the same effect. I'm not normally so concerned with the graphical side of Linux, but would love to be able to defend the non-dependance of Windows, and would love to swing a few colleagues over to the dark side. But without a little "it's almost Windows/Office" I'll just be wasting my time. I'm happy with pine, but I'm not sure that'll work for everyone! :) Cheers. -Mark

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Hard Drives
by Bob Dove 06 Jun '06

06 Jun '06

Hi folks, Silly quezzie time - what is the best orientation for a hard drive? My son in law has just had his office and network moved, and the IT specialist (their term/claim) re-installed with all the towers horizontal rather than vertical. Now I know that there are some vertical external HD cases but thought they might have contained 'special' HDs. Presume some gyro force generated so no silly angles - but otherwise? Any wise old owls out there with the definitive??? Cheers, BD.

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[ALUG] [ALUG Announce] Linux 2006 Conference and Tutorials, Brighton, 29 June - 2 July
by Alasdair G Kergon 05 Jun '06

05 Jun '06

ALUG Announce Please send announcements to Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce ----- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Linux 2006 Conference & Tutorials, Brighton, Thur 29th June - Sun 2nd July ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Full details at http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2006/ * Early-bird discount is available only until Thursday 8th June * The event begins with a choice of tutorials on Thursday. Then the twin-track 3-day conference runs from Friday to Sunday. Tutorials on Thursday 29th June ------------------------------- Full-day: Building and Maintaining Software Packages with RPM - Jos Vos Morning: Optimising MySQL Databases - Mark Leith (MySQL) Afternoon: Using SystemTap and kdump to diagnose kernel-related problems - Richard Moore (IBM) Introductory talks: Saturday 1st July ------------------------------------- This section of the conference is aimed at people who are relatively new to linux and is free of charge. Lunch is included if you register on the website before Thursday 15th June. Programme so far: * An introduction to Networking - Antony Stone * Getting Started with Apache - Jim Kissel (OSM Ltd.) * Securing Linux - Nils Magnus * What are all these distributions and how should I choose one? - Stuart Yeates (OSS Watch) * Creating DVD videos on Linux and Unix systems - Ben Hutchings Further talks to be confirmed - watch the website. Provisional Conference Programme: Friday 30th June - Sunday 2nd July -------------------------------------------------------------------- Advocacy * Towards an All-Party Parliamentary Open Source Group - Leslie Fletcher * State of Play: Free Software, ready or not? - Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton * Introduction to the politics of Linux - Andrew Nicolson (S'hampton Inst) * Advocating Linux - Jono Bacon (OpenAdvantage/LUGRadio) Case Studies * Apache at The Register: Building a Large Website from mod_rewrite and mod_include - Aaron Crane * 30 million and counting: An insight into a enterprise level open source systems - Neil McGovern (Fotopic.net) * How does OSS stack up? - Mark Taylor & Duncan Gibb (Sirius Corporation) * The State of Open Source in Higher and Further Education - Stuart Yeates * OpenStreetMap: The First Year - Steve Coast * Linux at Home - John Pinner (Clockwork Software Systems) * User Controlled Virtual Curtains - Torsten Spindler (ETH Zurich) Clustering and Virtualisation * Linux HA v2: One CRM to rule them all - Lars Marowsky-Bree (SuSE Labs) * How Hardware Supported Virtualization in Xen works - Mats Petersson (AMD) * A low-cost Linux based graphics cluster for cultural visualisation in virtual environments - Aidan Delaney (University of Brighton) Desktop and Applications * Desktop Linux Innovation at Novell - Ted Haeger (Novell) * SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop: Under the Hood - Ted Haeger (Novell) * (Free)NX - Remote Desktop Access, Present and Future - Fabian Franz * OpenOffice.org beyond 2.0... - Michael Meeks (Novell) * Kubuntu Dapper and KDE 4: The GNU/Linux Desktop - Jonathan Riddell (Canonical) * MySQL Roadmap - Mark Leith (MySQL) * Settling on decent Python Web Technologies - Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Grid * ROOT and PROOF - Ruediger Berlich (Forschungszentrum Karlsruhe) * The Interactive Europen Grid project (int.eu.grid) - Marcus Hardt Kernel * Porting uCLinux on a Coldfire processor: Writing Frame Buffer Drivers - Craig Duffy & Edwin Langley (Bristol UWE) * Flash memories and MTD Subsystem under Linux Networking and Internet Software Group - C-DAC, Pune University * The Linux Error Detection and Correction subsystem (EDAC) - Tim Small Platforms * Hardware hacking on a budget; the Amstrad E3 - Jonathan McDowell Productivity * Sed: more than just s/foo/bar/ - Tethys The programme is subject to change - check website for up-to-date information. If you book on or before Thursday 8th June you can take advantage of the Early Bird rates e.g. 65 pounds for the 3-day conference instead of 100. or just 25 pounds for students. (If you're not already a UKUUG member, you'll need to add the membership fee to this - details on website.) Conference rates also include a ticket for the Conference Dinner on Friday evening (subject to capacity), sponsored by The Positive Internet Company, and a copy of the conference CD sponsored by Novell. There are also still opportunities for sponsors and exhibitors: contact office(a)ukuug.org for details. Web: http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2006/ Email: office(a)ukuug.org Tel: +44 1763 273 475 -------------------------------------------------------------------- | Event sponsored by Novell, The Positive Internet Company and IBM | -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Send discussion replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk (Reply-To set) Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce

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Fwd: First ALUG competition of 2006
by sfr 05 Jun '06

05 Jun '06

I posted this on alug-social, but it seems unfair to exclude all those who subscribe to main but not to social. ----------- first email - While we're waiting for the announcement of J's next serious and on-topic contest of brains and programming skill, we shall offer you some light entertainment. And the tease is that I'm not telling you what the competition is, yet. Just a little clue: it's a Caption Competition. ------------- and then - First ALUG competition of 2006 - Part II The photo which awaits your inventive and witty caption is at http://sfr.itshall.be/stuff/tuff.jpg ------------- next will come a voting system... when Brett finishes it... -- sfr

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Brett Parker 05 Jun '06

05 Jun '06

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. Historically, these used to be the only time a lot of us would be about, now the channel has some usual faces that are there most of the time (except at silly o'clock, when we might be sleeping, or on the second thursday of the month, where we might be drinking in the Reindeer), so don't feel limited to visit during this time, come visit us when ever you feel like it! The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include xchat, irssi and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://www.irssi.org/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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open database format
by Peter 05 Jun '06

05 Jun '06

I'm working at a charity where we have moved from assorted W9x machines to mandriva. There is a W9x database application which has the peculiarity of allowing the user to create multiple identical field names per record, and thus has variable record lengths. I'm being told that exporting this to csv and consolidating the data in multiple identically named fields will lose data. (1) Is this plausible? I've done it, audited, and there is no doubt that every bit of data in every field has moved across. I cannot find any sort of grouping or sorting that can be done in the W9x app that I cannot do in Tellico. What could I be missing? The thing that is hard to see is, if the field labels are identical, how can you do things with the data split up into two, that you cannot do with them in one? Doesn't having multiple identical field labels limit rather than expand one's ability to manipulate the data? Is this something about xml as opposed to csv in databases? (2) Is it really possible that there are data structures which require multiple identical field labels and variable length records? Like, what and why? And could a collection database be one of them, and why? (3) Is there a good source on open database format? The recent BECTA publication mandates odb or csv export for databases in the education sector. Where would you go to get a good account of odb? With particular reference to the moveability of a database from one platform to another. Peter

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Re: [ALUG] First ALUG competition of 2006
by Steve 04 Jun '06

04 Jun '06

> And the winner is.... > > Stilvoid (Steve Engledow) > > Speech! Das w00t! *ahem* I'd just like to say a big thankyou to all of the people that have supported me along the way and especially to work for allowing me the flexibility to spend a while pondering my entry ;) This is the first competition I've ever won *sob* I'm so proud!

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font conundrum
by Peter 03 Jun '06

03 Jun '06

Many thanks to Wayne for the hint on spadmin. On investigating it, in spadmin, in the printer tab, it turns out that font substitution had been turned on, and it was referrring to fonts that the printer did not have. Consequently what must have been happening is that instead of using the fonts on the computer, the printer tried to use fonts it did not have, and defaulted to this strange spidery computerish font. Why it happened, no idea. I certainly had never enabled any of these substitutions. spadmin may have a mind of its own which gets triggered when you install OO2. At any rate, delete all the font substitutions and the computer fonts are used and work perfectly. In hope this may someday rescue someone else from a couple of days scratching their heads, Peter

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[simon.morris@cmtww.com: [Gllug-announce] GLLUG Summer Expedition]
by Adam Bower 02 Jun '06

02 Jun '06

Hi, I just noticed this from the GLLUG announce list, I know some aluggers were talking of organising a day out to Bletchley, perhaps you want to join up with the GLLUG'ers too. ----- Forwarded message from Simon Morris <simon.morris(a)cmtww.com> ----- From: Simon Morris <simon.morris(a)cmtww.com> To: gllug-announce(a)gllug.org.uk Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 13:25:04 +0100 Subject: [Gllug-announce] GLLUG Summer Expedition Hello, I am trying to organise a GLLUG Summer Expedition to Bletchley Park, Cambs. for Sunday 9th July. "Bletchley Park was the centre of the Allied cryptanalysis and code breaking efforts during the Second World War. The most notable achievement was the breaking of the German Enigma cipher which is said to have brought the war to an end 2 years early. It was home to a number of famous mathamaticians and cryptanalysts including Alan Turing - the father of modern computer science." At the park there is a Computer history museum, World War 2 exhibits and a Churchill exhibition. One this particular day there is also a vintage car and motorbike show and a WW2 fly-past as well as the regular attractions. The plan is to arrive at Bletchley, visit the attractions and then have a group picnic later in the afternoon. That Sunday is also the World Cup Final (No, England won't be playing in it *duck*) so those who care could find a local pub or race back to London to watch it. Kickoff is at 1900. I need to track numbers of people who are going to attend. Once I have 20 interested people we can claim a group discount for entry of £8 each. Please discuss the trip on the GLLUG Social list... http://lists.gllug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/social ... to keep the noise off of the main discussion list. Email me if you are interested in going and I am going to maintain a web-page to inform you of train times, more information etc. http://www.gllug.org.uk/index.php?/archives/18-GLLUG-Summer-Expedition.html Families and other hangers-on are more than welcome. Hope to see some of you there.. ~sm -- Gllug-announce mailing list - Gllug-announce(a)gllug.org.uk http://lists.gllug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug-announce ----- End forwarded message ----- -- jabberid = quinophex(a)jabber.earth.li Avoid ID cards, renew your passport: http://www.renewforfreedom.org/

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