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Wireless Router for sale
by David Reynolds 19 Nov '05

19 Nov '05

Hi, I have a Netgear WGR614 v5 that I want rid of. In perfect working order, boxed with all the bits it came with. All I'm asking is 15quid ono. Cheers, Dave -- David Reynolds david(a)reynoldsfamily.org.uk

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GDM not shutting down
by Peter 19 Nov '05

19 Nov '05

This is what's in /var/log/gdm. Peter Build Date: 16 September 2005 Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.X.Org to make sure that you have the latest version. Module Loader present Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Sat Nov 19 08:00:13 2005 (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" (EE) Unable to open /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libglx.a (EE) Failed to load module "/usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libglx.a" (open fa iled, 2) The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: > Warning: Type "ONE_LEVEL" has 1 levels, but <RALT> has 2 symbols > Ignoring extra symbols Errors from xkbcomp are not fatal to the X server

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RE: [ALUG] PCI-E graphics cards
by Chris Glover 17 Nov '05

17 Nov '05

On Thu, 2005-11-17 at 10:31 +0000, Peter Onion wrote: > > On Thu, 2005-11-17 at 10:00 +0000, Peter Onion wrote: > > > Does anyone have any experience with PCI-E graphics cards ? > > > > > > I've purchased a ATI X800-GTO to put in my new AMD 64 box, but I'm > > confused > > > by what it says on the box ... "Mother board must support specialized > > 12V > > > connector for graphics cards" (Or words to that effect). > > > > > > Now there is space on the graphics card for a 6 pin (2x3) socket but > > there > > > is not one mounted there, so I'm guessing that I don't need to provide > > this > > > particular version of the card with any additional power (other than > > what it > > > can draw from the PCI-E connector). > > > > > > Any thoughts ? > > > > > > Peter > > > > Hi Peter, > > > > On both of my PCI Express equipped machines, there is a Harddrive style > > power connector right next to the PCIE slot which needs a power cable > > plugged in. This is in addition to the square 4pin connector that gives > > 12v to the processor. > > > > Hope that helps > > Mine has both of them as well, but it's obvious what to plug into them ! :-) > > My problem is the box for the graphics card seems to suggest there should be > a power connector on the card itself, yet the space is unpopulated. > > Peter It varies from card to card. You'll find the babies of the range don't have it, yet the more powerfull cards do. I have an Nvidia 6200 card, which has the solder points on the board for the socket, but no socket. It works perfectly without it. So if the manufactures never fitted the socket to the board, chances are you wont need it! HTH Chris -- Chris ---------------------------------- E Mail: chris(a)glovercc.plus.com SIP: 84411389(a)voiptalk.org IAXTEL: 17003366726

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Fat Cat Meeting, Tomorrow Night
by Simon 17 Nov '05

17 Nov '05

Hi, Due to the fact a number of Alug members weren't able to make the meeting at the Reindeer last thursday, another extra meeting is being organised for tomorrow night. (Wednesday 16th Nov) Meeting at about 8pm till close. The Fat Cat, if you've not been there before is located on the corner of West End Street and Nelson Street, just off Dereham Road. (Map: http://tinyurl.com/c5sl7 ) Expect the usual mix of open source and beer! Hope you can make it. -Simon

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Window managers, changing, choosing, etc.
by Chris Green 16 Nov '05

16 Nov '05

Why is it always so difficult to change Window Managers! :-) I currently use xfwm but I'm considering moving to an alternative because xfce is getting too 'clever' for my liking. However, because I'm using xfce's session manager it's almost locked me in to xfce. How can I disentangle things a bit? Currently I use wdm to start things up and that in turn executes my .xsession which, currently, runs xfce. wdm offers a menu of window managers but this has no effect, I'm not clear how it works, it would be nice to make it work. Alternatively where can I find a .xsession file suitable for starting other window managers? I'm quite happy to switch between window managers by simply changing the .xsession file. I can at least understand what's going on then! -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk) "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

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Re: [ALUG] Good Evening Everyone! New member here!
by Peter 16 Nov '05

16 Nov '05

Tried to install amyedit, which looks quite interesting, but on configure, it turns out to be dependency hell! Various gtkmm bits are not in the path, or not installed, so I tried installing them (this is Mandriva), they seemed to go in ok, but still can't configure. I do have apt-rpm installed, but that doesn't seem to find gtkmm... Oh well. I'll keep trying, but one question: why, in the FAQ, does it answer the question why not use GEDIT instead? Am I missing something about GEDIT? It looks like any other very stripped down text editor, and not at all to be an alternative to Kile or Lyx or anything like that. There must be more to it, if people use it to create LaTex? Peter

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NFS via crossover cable networking problem
by stelmack＠nwlink.com 15 Nov '05

15 Nov '05

Greetings, This is an old 233MHZ "box1" or 192.168.1.1 set to be the client. It is connected to another 1GHZ "box2" or 192.168.1.2 via a crossover cable. As you can see I am able to ping the client from the client (no big excitement there), and I am able to ping the server (after much experimentation and research). (Don't ask me ALL the things I did wrong and the BIOS setting when there two NIC's installed --- whew!!!) Now I am trying to set up a NFS to gain access of files from either box. I am unable to mount the file system for use in either direction. I've read every "HOW-TO" and believe I've got it set up right, but I'm stuck. Both systems are versions of RedHat (7.3 for the older and 8.0 for the newer box). Anything I should check, do or change? I'm fairly new to Linux so I may have done something basically wrong. Cheers, Bob Stelmack ====================================================================== 192.168.1.1 "box1" details ====================================================================== [root@ramjet stelmack]# hostname ramjet [root@ramjet stelmack]# more /etc/exports 192.168.1.1(rw) 192.168.1.2(rw) [root@ramjet stelmack]# cd /mnt [root@ramjet mnt]# ls cdrom cdrom1 floppy floppy.directory home zip100.0.drectory [root@ramjet stelmack]# mount 192.168.1.2: /home mount: RPC: Unable to recieve; error = Connection refused [root@ramjet stelmack]# /sbin/ifconfig eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:C0:4F:CF:10:B1 inet addr:192.168.1.1 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 RX bytes:0 (0.0 b) TX bytes:0 (0.0 b) eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 02:00:07:E3:67:38 inet addr:192.168.1.4 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 RX bytes:0 (0.0 b) TX bytes:0 (0.0 b) lo Link encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:212 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:212 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 RX bytes:14404 (14.0 Kb) TX bytes:14404 (14.0 Kb) [root@ramjet stelmack]# ping 192.168.1.1 PING 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) from 192.168.1.1 : 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=780 usec Warning: time of day goes back, taking countermeasures. 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=1.811 msec 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=276 usec 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=255 time=262 usec 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=255 time=268 usec --- 192.168.1.1 ping statistics --- 5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/mdev = 0.262/0.679/1.811/0.599 ms [root@ramjet stelmack]# ping 192.168.1.2 PING 192.168.1.2 (192.168.1.2) from 192.168.1.1 : 56(84) bytes of data. Warning: time of day goes back, taking countermeasures. 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_seq=0 ttl=64 time=2.513 msec 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=387 usec 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=398 usec 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=397 usec --- 192.168.1.2 ping statistics --- 4 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/mdev = 0.387/0.923/2.513/0.918 ms [root@ramjet stelmack]# /usr/sbin/rpcinfo -p localhost program vers proto port 100000 2 tcp 111 portmapper 100000 2 udp 111 portmapper 100024 1 udp 32768 status 100024 1 tcp 32768 status 391002 2 tcp 32769 sgi_fam [root@ramjet stelmack]# /usr/sbin/rpcinfo -p 192.168.1.1 program vers proto port 100000 2 tcp 111 portmapper 100000 2 udp 111 portmapper 100024 1 udp 32768 status 100024 1 tcp 32768 status 391002 2 tcp 32769 sgi_fam [root@ramjet stelmack]# /usr/sbin/rpcinfo -p 192.168.1.2 rpcinfo: can't contact portmapper: RPC: Remote system error - Connection refused [root@ramjet stelmack]# cd /etc [root@ramjet etc]# more host.conf order hosts,bind [root@ramjet etc]# more hosts # Do not remove the following line, or various programs # that require network functionality will fail. 127.0.0.1 ramjet localhost.localdomain localhost 192.168.1.1 box1 192.168.1.2 box2 [root@ramjet etc]# more hosts.allow # # hosts.allow This file describes the names of the hosts which are # allowed to use the local INET services, as decided # by the '/usr/sbin/tcpd' server. # [root@ramjet etc]# more hosts.deny # # hosts.deny This file describes the names of the hosts which are # *not* allowed to use the local INET services, as decided # by the '/usr/sbin/tcpd' server. # # The portmap line is redundant, but it is left to remind you that # the new secure portmap uses hosts.deny and hosts.allow. In particular # you should know that NFS uses portmap! [root@ramjet sysconfig]# more network NETWORKING=yes HOSTNAME=ramjet [root@ramjet sysconfig]# cd networking/ [root@ramjet networking]# ls devices ifcfg-lo profiles [root@ramjet networking]# cd profiles [root@ramjet profiles]# ls default [root@ramjet profiles]# cd default [root@ramjet default]# ls hosts ifcfg-eth0 ifcfg-mybtinternet network ifcfg-bt ifcfg-eth0.bak ifcfg-ppp0 resolv.conf ifcfg-bt internet ifcfg-eth1 junk [root@ramjet default]# more hosts # Do not remove the following line, or various programs # that require network functionality will fail. 127.0.0.1 ramjet localhost.localdomain localhost 192.168.1.1 box1 192.168.1.2 box2 [root@ramjet default]# more network HOSTNAME=ramjet [root@ramjet default]# more ifcfg-eth0 DEVICE=eth0 ONBOOT=yes BOOTPROTO=static TYPE=Ethernet USERCTL=no PEERDNS=no BROADCAST=192.168.1.255 NETWORK=192.168.1.0 NETMASK=255.255.255.0 [root@ramjet default]# more resolv.conf nameserver 192.168.1.1 [root@ramjet default]# more /etc/rc.d/rc.local #!/bin/sh # # This script will be executed *after* all the other init scripts. # You can put your own initialization stuff in here if you don't # want to do the full Sys V style init stuff. /sbin/ifconfig eth0 192.168.1.1 broadcast 192.168.1.255 netmask 255.255.255.0 up /sbin/ifconfig eth1 192.168.1.4 broadcast 192.168.1.255 netmask 255.255.255.0 up touch /var/lock/subsys/local ====================================================================== 192.168.1.2 "box2" details ====================================================================== [root@dell stelmack]# hostname dell [root@dell stelmack]# more /etc/exports 192.168.1.2(rw) 192.168.1.1(rw) [root@dell stelmack]# cd /mnt [root@dell mnt]# ls cdrom floppy home [root@dell mnt]# mount 192.168.1.1: /home mount: RPC: Port mapper failure - RPC: Unable to receive [root@dell mnt]# /sbin/ifconfig eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:06:5B:70:C0:C3 inet addr:192.168.1.2 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:20 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:24 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 RX bytes:1650 (1.6 Kb) TX bytes:1918 (1.8 Kb) Interrupt:11 Base address:0xec80 lo Link encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:72 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:72 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:4694 (4.5 Kb) TX bytes:4694 (4.5 Kb) [root@dell mnt]# ping 192.168.1.2 PING 192.168.1.2 (192.168.1.2) from 192.168.1.2 : 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.124 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.071 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.060 ms --- 192.168.1.2 ping statistics --- 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% loss, time 2002ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.060/0.085/0.124/0.027 ms [root@dell mnt]# ping 192.168.1.1 PING 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) from 192.168.1.2 : 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=0.307 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=0.298 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=255 time=0.296 ms --- 192.168.1.1 ping statistics --- 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% loss, time 2000ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.296/0.300/0.307/0.014 ms [root@dell mnt]# [root@dell mnt]# /usr/sbin/rpcinfo -p 192.168.1.2 program vers proto port 100000 2 tcp 111 portmapper 100000 2 udp 111 portmapper 100024 1 udp 1024 status 100024 1 tcp 1024 status 391002 2 tcp 1025 sgi_fam [root@dell mnt]# /usr/sbin/rpcinfo -p 192.168.1.1 rpcinfo: can't contact portmapper: RPC: Remote system error - Connection refused[root@dell mnt]# [root@dell mnt]# [root@dell mnt]# cd /etc [root@dell etc]# more host.conf order hosts,bind [root@dell etc]# more hosts # Do not remove the following line, or various programs # that require network functionality will fail. 127.0.0.1 dell localhost.localdomain localhost 192.168.1.2 box2 192.168.1.1 box1 [root@dell etc]# more hosts.allow # # hosts.allow This file describes the names of the hosts which are # allowed to use the local INET services, as decided # by the '/usr/sbin/tcpd' server. # [root@dell etc]# more hosts.deny # # hosts.deny This file describes the names of the hosts which are # *not* allowed to use the local INET services, as decided # by the '/usr/sbin/tcpd' server. # # The portmap line is redundant, but it is left to remind you that # the new secure portmap uses hosts.deny and hosts.allow. In particular # you should know that NFS uses portmap! [root@dell etc]# [root@dell etc]# [root@dell etc]# cd sysconfig/ [root@dell sysconfig]# more network NETWORKING=yes HOSTNAME=dell [root@dell sysconfig]# cd networking [root@dell networking]# ls devices ifcfg-lo profiles [root@dell networking]# cd profiles [root@dell profiles]# ls default [root@dell profiles]# cd default/ [root@dell default]# ls hosts ifcfg-eth0 network resolv.conf [root@dell default]# more hosts # Do not remove the following line, or various programs # that require network functionality will fail. 127.0.0.1 dell localhost.localdomain localhost 192.168.1.2 box2 192.168.1.1 box1 [root@dell default]# more network HOSTNAME=dell [root@dell default]# more ifcfg-eth0 DEVICE=eth0 BOOTPROTO=none ONBOOT=yes USERCTL=no PEERDNS=no TYPE=Ethernet BROADCAST=192.168.1.255 NETWORK=192.168.1.0 IPADDR=192.168.1.2 NETMASK=255.255.255.0 [root@dell default]# more resolv.conf [root@dell default]# [root@dell default]#

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NewsForge presents free OpenOffice.org training videos
by Keith Watson 15 Nov '05

15 Nov '05

http://business.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/11/09/2044220 Regards, Keith ____________ Has anyone attained wisdom by pondering the experience of others? - Not since the world began, they must pass through the fire. - Norman Douglas

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Modem
by Bob Dove 15 Nov '05

15 Nov '05

Hi folks, I have a boxed hardly used fax modem that may do as a standby 'til summat better comes along. I don't have serial cable but the power brick is still with it. 14400 bps fax send and receive 14400 bps data. I might even be able to find the software (Delrina) for Win/Dos. let me know if any use... Cheers, BD.

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Timer-Based Power Management on Fedora
by Dan Hatton 14 Nov '05

14 Nov '05

I mentioned this in passing in a thread last week, so apologies to anyone who's heard it before: I'd like idle-timer-based power management on my FC4 machine, but can't get sleepd 1.2.14 to compile. Can anyone suggest how to make it work, please? The details: If I point my CPATH at the apm.h and acpi.h files provided by my kernel, running "make" in the sleepd directory fails with the series of messages cc -O2 -Wall -DACPI_APM -c -o sleepd.o sleepd.c In file included from sleepd.c:21: acpi.h:20: error: syntax error before ‘apm_info’ sleepd.c: In function ‘main_loop’: sleepd.c:132: error: ‘apm_info’ undeclared (first use in this function) sleepd.c:132: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once sleepd.c:132: error: for each function it appears in.) sleepd.c:132: error: syntax error before ‘ai’ sleepd.c:177: error: ‘ai’ undeclared (first use in this function) sleepd.c:179: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘apm_read’ sleepd.c: In function ‘main’: sleepd.c:307: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘apm_exists’ make: *** [sleepd.o] Error 1 whereas, if I point CPATH at the acpi.h and apm.h provided by sleepd, "make" fails with the slightly different series of messages cc -O2 -Wall -DACPI_APM -c -o sleepd.o sleepd.c In file included from ./apm.h:1, from ./apm.h:1, [repeated _many_times] from sleepd.c:20: ./apm.h:1:17: error: #include nested too deeply In file included from sleepd.c:21: acpi.h:20: error: syntax error before ‘apm_info’ sleepd.c: In function ‘main_loop’: sleepd.c:132: error: ‘apm_info’ undeclared (first use in this function) sleepd.c:132: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once sleepd.c:132: error: for each function it appears in.) sleepd.c:132: error: syntax error before ‘ai’ sleepd.c:177: error: ‘ai’ undeclared (first use in this function) sleepd.c:179: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘apm_read’ sleepd.c: In function ‘main’: sleepd.c:307: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘apm_exists’ make: *** [sleepd.o] Error 1 sleepd compiles out of the box on my Debian Testing machine, so it occurred to me to ftp the resulting binaries to where I want them. Unfortunately, once there, the sleepd binary refuses to run, with the error message sleepd: error while loading shared libraries: libapm.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory -- Thanks very much, Dan Hatton

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RE: [ALUG] Anyone got an old fashioned *thread hijack* *pcmcia* modemgoing spare?
by Keith Watson 14 Nov '05

14 Nov '05

> From: Steve Engledow Sent: 14 November 2005 11:54 > > >Has anyone got an old 56k capable external modem (that's serial not > >usb) lying around they'd be willing to part with for a suitable > >transfer of funds? > > I have a 56k external modem avec serial connection in a box > somewhere. > I'd tell you the make etc but I can't remember. It's blue ;) > Sounds good :o) Don't care about make or model as long as it works with GNU/Linux. Regards, Keith ____________ Whatever you turn your back on gets you in the end.

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Anyone got an old fashioned external serial modem going spare?
by Keith Watson 14 Nov '05

14 Nov '05

A friend of mine had her modem go kaput over the weekend. As her cash flow isn't the best in the world, she runs linux on an old spare parts system, hence the external modem. I've fixed her up with my old faithful modem for the time being but I'm having trouble getting a replacement. Has anyone got an old 56k capable external modem (that's serial not usb) lying around they'd be willing to part with for a suitable transfer of funds? Regards, Keith ____________ Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. - (Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.)

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RE: [ALUG] Re: Re: Anyone got an old fashioned external serial modem going spare?
by Keith Watson 14 Nov '05

14 Nov '05

> From: Chris Green Sent: 14 November 2005 10:04 > On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 09:32:50AM -0000, Keith Watson wrote: > > > From: Chris Green Sent: 14 November 2005 09:30 > > > On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 09:18:40AM -0000, Keith Watson wrote: > > > > Has anyone got an old 56k capable external modem (that's serial not > > > > usb) lying around they'd be willing to part with for a suitable > > > > transfer of funds? > > > > > > > She hasn't got an ISA slot free has she? I have a 'real' ISA slot > > > modem - i.e. not a WinModem. > > > > Really, what chipset is it? > > > > Any problems getting it to run under Linux? > > > I think my original purpose in getting it was to run under > Linux, I can send you some more details when I get home this > evening if you like (I'm at work, modem is at home). > > It's free to a good home, I have no ISA machines running any > more. I can stick it in the post to you if you want. > I'm not sure if she has any ISA slots on her m/b. Need to check, but thanks for the offer, I might take you up on that depending on what else turns up. Cheers, Keith ____________ A good explanation: never explain anything. - Zen Saying

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RE: [ALUG] Re: Anyone got an old fashioned external serial modem goingspare?
by Keith Watson 14 Nov '05

14 Nov '05

> From: Chris Green Sent: 14 November 2005 09:30 > > On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 09:18:40AM -0000, Keith Watson wrote: > > Has anyone got an old 56k capable external modem (that's serial not > > usb) lying around they'd be willing to part with for a suitable > > transfer of funds? > > > She hasn't got an ISA slot free has she? I have a 'real' ISA > slot modem - i.e. not a WinModem. Really, what chipset is it? Any problems getting it to run under Linux? Regards, Keith

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RE: [ALUG] Anyone got an old fashioned *thread hijack* *pcmcia* modemgoing spare?
by Keith Watson 14 Nov '05

14 Nov '05

> From: Adam Bower Sent: 14 November 2005 09:41 > On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 09:18:40AM -0000, Keith Watson wrote: > > (or alternatively, if you know how to make a Conexant MDC480 > modem work with Linux then let me know!) > Take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WinModemConexantHSF?highlight=%28Conexant%29 WinModemConexantHSF - Ubuntu Wiki and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Conexant?highlight=%28Conexant%29 Conexant - Ubuntu Wiki they might help. Regards, Keith ____________ Man always dies before he is fully born. - Erich Fromm

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Brett Parker 14 Nov '05

14 Nov '05

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. Historically, these used to be the only time a lot of us would be about, now the channel has some usual faces that are there most of the time (except at silly o'clock, when we might be sleeping, or on the second thursday of the month, where we might be drinking in the Reindeer), so don't feel limited to visit during this time, come visit us when ever you feel like it! The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include xchat, irssi and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://www.irssi.org/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Re: Re: installing Debian
by Robert Grant (DEV) 12 Nov '05

12 Nov '05

Here are some experiences/thoughts from an ordinary 'user' who just wants a laptop on which to use office and other applications rather than any kind of developer work 1. I'd like to support the positive things said about the Sarge installer. My first Linux try was with Woody and it took me months to get X working at all. Although I'd read up in advance and knew all my hardware specs I somehow chose a 2.2 idepci kernel which I think dogged subsequent efforts including my later effort at an online upgrade to Sarge. When I tried a fresh install with a Sarge CD all went far more smoothly and I had a nice looking desktop (KDE) with very little real effort. Certainly more quickly than when I put XP on the same laptop. 2. Aptitude is wonderful. dselect under Woody was really hard to get into. With aptitude installing and managing packages is extremely easy. This gave me the confidence to bypass Tasksel at install time and build up from a fairly bare-bones text only system. 3. As Brett said in this thread already "99% of the battle is knowing where to look" and I agree. Debian is not 'hard' in itself but the documentation available online seems particularly challenging for the non-initiated. The more I learn the more I like the intuitive and accessible way the Debian system itself is laid out: but the more puzzled I get that nobody seems to have produced an entry level guide which would make working it out less of a groping in the dark experience. 4. The rise of Ubuntu has me unsure of which way to leap. On the one hand I am tempted by the idea of more up to date software than I have in Sarge. On the other I want to keep building on what I have learned about Debian. Once my confidence improves my plan was to try the approach of selectively pulling in packages from the testing/unstable repositaries. In particular I'd like the more recent versions of OO.org and Okle. Maybe someone with my low level of technical knowledge and 'user' orientation would be safer going for Ubuntu though? 5. Thanks to all contributors to this thread which is a timely one for me as I've got a new, unformatted 60G HD in my thinkpad now after the last one died. I am on the waiting list for a UEA copy of XP, which I think I need to install first, so have a few days to choose between Sarge and (K)Ubuntu. BTW, just to make the purists cringe, my plan is to put on XP then shrink the NTFS partition down and add ext3 ones for / and /home plus swap using Partition Magic. Rob Rob Grant Tutor in Economics School of Development Studies University of East Anglia NR4 7TJ +44(0)1603592324 r.grant(a)uea.ac.uk

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Hard Drives
by Bob Dove 10 Nov '05

10 Nov '05

Hi Folks, Installation CDs and pre-installed O/S plus recovery disks. I have always installed from a full O/S disk. My daughter and several of the outlaws have bought systems with pre-installed O/S and recovery disks (Tiny and Acer). Initially, these boxes had Win95. Recovery on these machines was in fact a reformat and copying of a 'mirror' image and not a full version. I upgraded my sys to Win 98 and eventually 98SE (do you think I'd admit to upgrading the outlaws?) Currently, because Photoshop CS demanded it W2K (which is absolutely with no exceptions they flakiest O/S I've used - and I started with CP/M! Fond memory says W3.11 was the best. I now have two towers and two USB externals. The 'twin towers' each have two HDD. The reason for this is that initially a refusal to boot up and even acknowledge the presence of emergency repair disk in floppy drive or the installation CD in CD drive caused my local guru to pronounce the HDD dead. I bought and fitted new drive, reinstalled every thing and fitted (after setting jumpers) 'dead' drive as slave in the hopes of being able to recover data including a large number of scanned images. Lo and behold, the 'dead' drive was seen and all the data was there and could be accessed. So verily the dead drive was resurrected! The next time the 'C:' drive 'died' on me, it was another trip to PC World for another HDD and again installing and loading O/S. This time 'dead' drive went into one of those new fangled (at the time) external USB drive boxes where it remains. As I said - two boxes and now six HDDs later have lead me to believe that it is software (namely windoze) that is at fault, not the hardware! Possibly a viral infection could have caused it but who knows? Next failure will see a smaller drive installed as 'C:' as it will in fact only contain O/S and those programs that won't install anywhere else but C: Why smaller? It takes an age to scan for Virii or defrag big drives! Incidentally, the latest reformatting because windoze wouldn't boot resurrected a dormant Linux partition which the system labelled C: and windoze took itself off into a second partition it named F: I wonder how long before I have to repeat the exercise? Now come the question; with multiple hard drives installed, can Linux install and boot from a second hard drive D:? Having windoze and Linux in separate partitions on the same hard drive made me give up on Linux. Reading these mails - your comments re operating/installing Linux is absolutely frightening. A 'simple' installation CD that injects Linux onto a hard drive and which comes up with a desktop 'just like windoze' (or Mac O/S) is all 99% of PC owners want. We don't want to know about command lines - just icons on the desktop just like the original Digital Research GUI that all other O/S desktops have copied! Cheers, BD.

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Re: Hard Drives
by Robert Grant (DEV) 10 Nov '05

10 Nov '05

Just a thought provoked by Ten's question/aside >There really is nothing inherently bad or unusable about consoles. > >As an aside, there's *got* to be some way to remove the fear of the console >for the average user. Whether it's consoles in funky anti-aliased truetype >fonts with images/music/css theming/whatever in a gnome/kde app, or even >turing-type rubber-fork "find me the mp3s I saved in july last year" type >stuff, if we could just crack this heinous culture that's built up against >using fast, expressive, intuitive typed commands, then people would REALLY be >moving to linux. I use two stats programs, SPSS and STATA, which have GUI interfaces that have grown over the years and versions on top of command line origins. Both preserve full access to command line flexibility and to different extents encourage users to use that interface as they gain experience. The key enabling factor is that in both systems it is very easy to access the commands generated by using menus and dialogues. STATA is particularly good at this, reporting the the plain-text command equivalent with every set of results, whether generated via console or point-and-squirt. There is also an on-screen history of commands in a separate window along with another showing available variables. Items can be grabbed from either source to construct new console entries. This works the other way too, with a CLI command that shows you the GUI way of issuing. When I introduce a class to the package I can just give them the true-and-pure commands and they have the security of knowing how to get back to a GUI method too. Come to think of it there must be many other models of GUI/CLI integration like this in various applications. I'm sure others on this list will know dozens. But has it been done in an OS yet, or could a desktop environment just superimpose this behaviour? Could something provide the user with a console window that is, for example, filled in with the appropriate mnt/ls and so on commands when they stick a disk in? Rob Rob Grant Tutor in Economics School of Development Studies University of East Anglia NR4 7TJ +44(0)1603592324 r.grant(a)uea.ac.uk

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GDM not shutting down
by Peter 10 Nov '05

10 Nov '05

Sorry, in this question I got the details all wrong. What is not shutting down is dm, not gdm. It is however true that this shuts down fine with either xdm or kdm. And the other thing that is failing is nfs locking, not ntfs... Which is puzzling me a bit, not being terribly well informed, as I don't recall ever installing nfs. Or maybe Mandriva just does it? Sorry about that Peter

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Good Evening Everyone! New member here!
by rob page 10 Nov '05

10 Nov '05

Well, I moved down to Norwich about 2 months ago from York, where I'd been doing a Computer Science degree, and I've started using Linux about 6 years ago, about 3 years ago started using it as my main OS. Hmmm, now for why i'm interested in Linux. Well, because its better.... :-), and the politics... and I can actually do decent programming on it, and when something goes wrong with it, the answer is just a google away, because it supports my USB OHCI PCI card, and my tulip network card (which win 2k doesn't), because it has xfce4 and many other reasons.... As for me, the main programming languages I use are C++ and java, I currently maintain a latex editor called AmyEdit [1] , written using gtkmm in C++, (end shameless plug). I'm also the current KBounce International Champion! [2] That's me, Hello! [1] http://amyedit.sf.net [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KBounce#International_champion

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GDM not shutting down
by Peter 09 Nov '05

09 Nov '05

Hi, Can anyone suggest why GDM should not be able to be shut down when I logout and turn the machine off? XDM and KDM both do, just fine, but I prefer GDM but am a bit troubled by the failure. This is on Mandriva 2006, and its the logs that scroll by after you have closed down. The other thing that fails is something to do with NTFS locking, don't know if this is relevant. But it fails when using XDM and KDM also. Peter.

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Anyone got some old 500MB-2GB hard drives they no longer require?
by Ashley T. Howes, Ph.D. 08 Nov '05

08 Nov '05

I'm in the process of building a small Debian GNU/Linux based cluster using old machines. It's something I always been interested in doing. I've already got the boxes, some motherboard/cpus with Pentium chips on them, and the NICs. The only thing missing are the hard disks. Has anyone got one or more they no longer need? I've managed to build the cluster for free so far, and hope to finish it in the same manner. I'd prefer sizes between 500MB and 2GB. So, if you can help, please email me. Perhaps you could bring something along to the kit meeting at UEA on Sunday? -- Ashley T. Howes, Ph.D. http://www.ashleyhowes.com "All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That's how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day." - The Joker in Alan Moore's The Killing Joke

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Re: Re: installing Debian
by Robert Grant (DEV) 07 Nov '05

07 Nov '05

Thanks Ted, Adam, Wayne and Tony for useful thoughts Ted, my blood ran cold when I read your warning about BIOS settings on the hd. Fortunately I remember going into BIOS since installing the new unformatted drive to make sure the CD was set as boot device- then running Partition Magic just to check the drive was functional as I want to leave feedback on ebay for the thing. I also booted Knoppix which is about all I can use with no hard drive at all, so thankfully the BIOS seems intact. Knoppix froze on me after about five minutes though, so maybe even this needs an hd to be present. I do seem to recall the XP installer mentioning a small area of disk as something like 'unused' or 'unformatted', only about 2-300 meg I think, when I installed it over the factory W98. Maybe this was where 98 had 'squirted' its recovery/hibernation info. I quite agree that this kind of behaviour, plus the absurdity of making recovery data available only on a device which will be dead if it is needed, is a pretty poor show. With a totally new hd any hidden diagnostic or system specific tools are lost now. I do plan one day to have a go with the "ThinkPad Configuration Tools for Linux" tpctl package that can give you such things as on-screen volume display, power management, trackpoint configuration etc. Details at http://tpctl.sourceforge.net/ if anyone is interested. Tony, though the windows labels for all your bits C:, F: etc. are not much use in linux for the reasons given, you should still be able to mount these as you please using device paths like /dev/hda1 etc. Apologies if this is blindingly obvious but I was pleased when I realised it! I had a FAT32 partition automounting rw as /exchange and an NTFS one as /xp where 'My Documents' was. The fact that NTFS write support in linux seems to be less than fully reliable is one reason why I didn't want to set up my XP partition with the Sarge d-i by the way, even if that option were offered. In fact I am thinking of putting 'My Documents' entirely on FAT32 when I reinstall so that everything is easily accessible from both OSs, unless there are compelling performance or reliability reasons not so to do. For example it would be nice to be able to access my mp3 library from both linux and XP. I reckon something like this will do hda1 8G NTFS XP C: or /bloat hda2 8G ext3 Sarge or Ubuntu / hda3 23G FAT32 'My Documents'E: or /xp hda4 20G ext3 /home hda5 1G swap (machine has 256M RAM) Best wishes, Rob Rob Grant Tutor in Economics School of Development Studies University of East Anglia NR4 7TJ +44(0)1603592324 r.grant(a)uea.ac.uk

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Re: installing Debian
by Peter 07 Nov '05

07 Nov '05

> installing Debian is like being greased, and wrestling with an eel. This is completely mad. I have installed Debian and derivatives of Debian many times (on a little Dell that I bought for £50, specifically for the purpose of playing with distributions, and on a couple of other boxes, one a 200mhz MMX, one a home assembled Shuttle). Debian Pure (now another name) installed over the net or from a Debian DVD with no problems. Debian Sarge, from a magazine cover DVD booted and installed with no problems. Mepis installed with no problems. Ubuntu installed with no problems (though using it, the old version I tried a year ago, was a different matter). Knoppix has an install option - it just went in and worked. I have had some problems installing things. I couldn't get Dragonfly to work at all. I had problems with one of the BSDs, or at least, problems figuring out how to get to a proper desktop. I've had temporary difficulties with Slackware, largely owing to the lack of a 'go back' option at various critical points. I had trouble with Mandrake 10.x on some machines. The first issue of elive wouldn't work properly. I never could get Woody to work. So, its not that I can do everything perfectly and easily, and I'm not at all expert in this stuff, but recent Debians are SIMPLY NOT A PROBLEM. Peter

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