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Re: [ALUG] Quoted-Printable and MIME (Was: [ALUG] Sorry about the swearing...)
by Ten 17 Oct '05

17 Oct '05

On Monday 17 October 2005 11:16, MJ Ray wrote: > Ten <runlevelten(a)gmail.com> > > > > On Friday 14 October 2005 20:09, MJ Ray wrote: > > > Ten's mail client (KMail) is using quoted-printable for > > > plain text emails, which seems broken. > > What, just the idea of using quoted-printable? > Using Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions for non-extended parts > of emails does seem a broken idea to me. I realise that some people > advocate using MIME for everything, because it's there, > but the amount of MIMEd email nasties means that my bulk email client runs > plain-text-only until I tell it otherwise. Not so much because it's there with me, but since beginning to use kmail (ie since it became acceptable) I've become much more guilty of this. That said, the indignant revulsion I reserve for HTML mails leads me to understand this viewpoint perfectly. > > If so, KMail has been using qp in signed messages, and IIRC the PGP/MIME > > spec has the use of quoted-printable or base64 in such signed messages as > > a required/must. > Ah, yes, that rules out 8-bit. However, RFC 3156 says: "all data > signed according to this protocol MUST be constrained to 7 bits" > ...which means, if you're not sending 8-bit, you don't need to qp it. > KMail seems to be qp-ing everything regardless. It's not as bad as > gmail, which base64s everything regardless for some users! Eugh! > Hope that explains it, Yes, thanks. As probably mentioned, on examining the mail to work out the cause for this behaviour (and to give ground to my evangelical faith in the One True Desktop Suite, of course :-) ), I'm pretty much certain that the 'thinking' behind kmail doing that was that there were trailing spaces and stuff in the email. Now, whilst I'm not really au fait with the minutiae of pgp/mime, it seems that when sending the data via 7bit which had those trailing spaces _when it was signed_, encoding it as quoted-printable is a fair thing to do if you don't want your signature borken at the other end. So teh issues would seem to be (1) me not cleaning up my spaces post-edit, and (2) trailing spaces getting signed. Like I said, I don't pretend to be an expert on this, but that's my inference of what's going on there.. CMIIW :) Also as a matter of interest, thank you for drawing my attention to rfc 3156, as the last one I read on the matter was 2015! Probably before the turn of the century, literally ( which should give you a rough idea of how au fait I aren't! ). -- Ten PS: Those who know about a certain proprietary software I worked on in late 2001 will pour scorn on my standards-compliancy naffness, but I should point out that I worked on the horrid flash-based update UI, not any of the manly stuff.

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Brett Parker 17 Oct '05

17 Oct '05

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. Historically, these used to be the only time a lot of us would be about, now the channel has some usual faces that are there most of the time (except at silly o'clock, when we might be sleeping, or on the second thursday of the month, where we might be drinking in the Reindeer), so don't feel limited to visit during this time, come visit us when ever you feel like it! The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include xchat, irssi and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://www.irssi.org/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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KDM Display Manager
by David Noble 16 Oct '05

16 Oct '05

Hi I have somehow managed to disable my KDM display manager. Would any of you know the best way to go about getting it back to working order. I can't remember how I managed to disable it, but for the moment, I am forced to use the XDM manager. I run SuSE 9.3, which was working well up until yesterday. Thank you very much- any support would be much appreciated, David Noble, Norwich

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HDD
by Bob Dove 16 Oct '05

16 Oct '05

Hi Folks, Read somewhere that IDE drives should be mounted as HD 0 and HD 1 on same IDE cable, IDE 0 as master and HD 1 as slave. Some mother boards and some IDE cables require correct IDE cable connector to be used, i. e., top connector is slave, that lower in the cable as master. Later MB probably not so fussy but jumpers have to set. I have just had a battle setting up box two with an IDE drive due to confused jumper pin settings. Particular drive reads from right to left! Be nice if drive manufactures used a common jumper setting! Secondary IDE connector use for CD/DVD/Zips. The most used of the optical drives set as master, 'tother as slave. It seems that using a magnetic and optical drive on same IDE connector slows things down somewhat. This is of course Windoze lore, but assume motherboard/IDE et al works same in 'IX. Cheers. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 26/12/2004

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Zaurus SL-3100 or 3000
by Barry Samuels 15 Oct '05

15 Oct '05

Does anyone have a Zaurus SL-3100? I'm thinking of getting one particularly for running some Linux in-car navigation software with verbal instructions. I know this Zaurus has a built-in speaker but would like to know from someone who may have experience of it whether it can produce a respectable volume. Thanks. -- Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain

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firebird-super-server primary key help
by Owen Synge 14 Oct '05

14 Oct '05

Well I am a little anoyed as I wanted to write a basic fit for my needs app basded on firebird as I remember a previous employer used interbase a lot but I am stuck making primary keys get values automatically. knowing we have some experts on this list please help Owen $isql-fb Use CONNECT or CREATE DATABASE to specify a database SQL> CREATE DATABASE '/tmp/dvb4.fdb'; SQL> CREATE TABLE TABLEA ( CON> TABLEAPK BIGINT NOT NULL PRIMARY KEY , CON> TABLEANAME varchar(20) CON> ); SQL> COMMIT; SQL> CREATE GENERATOR GENPKTABLEA; SQL> COMMIT; SQL> CREATE TRIGGER BEFOREINSERTTABLEA for TABLEA CON> ACTIVE BEFORE INSERT position 0 CON> AS CON> BEGIN CON> IF(NEW.TABLEAPK IS NULL) THEN CON> NEW.TABLEAPK = GEN_ID(GENPKTABLEA, 1); Statement failed, SQLCODE = -104 Dynamic SQL Error -SQL error code = -104 -Unexpected end of command SQL> END CON>

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Setting up a closed IRC channel
by Keith Watson 14 Oct '05

14 Oct '05

Can any IRC experts out there give me some pointers on setting up a closed IRC channel for the developers within my company? Background is that we (i.e. the developers employed by Kewill in the UK) have over the last couple of days attended a piss-u^H^H^H^H^H^H^H conference organised by the IT director. We were talking about ways we can keep in touch. General consensus was that e-mail and Windows IM weren't very good tools for this if we wanted to open up discussions to everybody and that a closed IRC channel might work well. Do I need to set up an in-house server or are there servers out there we can make use of? Regards, Keith ____________ The material thing before you, that is IT. - Huang-po

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Oldest Noodles unearthed in China
by Keith Watson 14 Oct '05

14 Oct '05

<quote> "The remains of the world's oldest noodles have been unearthed in China." </quote> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4335160.stm Is there something you're not telling us, Noodles? :o), Keith ____________ QUOTATION, n. - The act of repeating erroneously the words of another, also, the words erroneously repeated. - Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary

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Re: 2nd Thursday Norwich Meet : Reindeer, Dereham Road
by Steve Engledow 14 Oct '05

14 Oct '05

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > The monthly "Second Thursday" ALUG Norwich Pub Meet is *tonight*, 13th October. And a muchly good meeting it was too! In total, 13 (14 if you count Tux) people attended so it's lucky we opted to sit in a different place to the usual where there happened to be more seats. There was also the added bonus of easy access to the pool table :) As is to be expected, the topics of conversation were many and various and, with thirteen of us, sometimes confusing ;) OK, so I can't remember any specific snippets of conversation to post here so I'll let someone else do that. The highlight of the night though, was the tense and highly competitive testing of wills and intellect between myself, Kaz, James, and Dave known to mere mortals as... Frustration. The winner being me :D All in all, a good time was had by all, Eli's bike lights were attached, Mike's resin coated USB flash device amused, and Tux got coated in cigarette ash and beer. Attendees (in alphabetical order because I'm nice like that): Adam, Becca, Dan (I think), Dave, Eli, Francis, James, Jan, Kaz, Mike, Noodles, Simon, Steve Until the next one, Steve -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDT39NCEbZc9Re45oRAuvBAKDMmuaEnv50l5OR/MfiEXNPY164ewCdFy3T LaqMniJt7TYDh4MnYVDsBZw= =0S++ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: [ALUG] Sorry about the swearing...
by Adrian Kiddle 14 Oct '05

14 Oct '05

Hi, I'm not expert with linux but I've put a few boxes together. I think the problem may be the 2 slaves on IDE Channel 2. I think each IDE channel needs to have one master. Good luck. Adrian Kiddle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Anson" <tony.anson(a)zetnet.co.uk> To: <Main(a)lists.alug.org.uk> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:01 PM Subject: [ALUG] Sorry about the swearing... > Before you pass on to the next item, the Linux issue appears shortly... > > I've just put a box together (AMD 900, nine hundred and mumble mumble MB RAM). > > IDE Channel 1: HD0 (master) and CD/DVD-RW (slave), cable detect > IDE Channel 2: HD1 and Zip100 - both slave - not cable-detect.

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2nd Thursday Norwich Meet : Reindeer, Dereham Road
by Jonathan McDowell 13 Oct '05

13 Oct '05

The monthly "Second Thursday" ALUG Norwich Pub Meet is *tonight*, 13th October. Apologies for the lack of notice - it's been on the website for a while now, but I forgot to send the reminder mail at the start of the week. It's at the Reindeer pub on the Dereham Road, just opposite the City Gate. We'll be there from 8pm-ish, though there may be a few people there earlier. Topics for discussion will no doubt be as varied as ever. Directions to the Reindeer can be found at: http://www.alug.org.uk/venues/reindeer.html Pictures of some of the regulars, and irregulars, and, well, just some pictures of people that might or might not turn up are available from: http://www.earth.li/~noodles/Photos/2004-08-ALUG/ http://www.earth.li/~noodles/Photos/2005-01-ALUG-Xmas/ http://the.earth.li/~noodles/stilvoid-alug/mp20050811/ Which should hopefully aid those of you wondering who to look out for. We're /normally/ just to the left of the main entrance. J. -- /-\ | 101 things you can't have too much |@/ Debian GNU/Linux Developer | of : 30 - Comfy sofas. \- | _______________________________________________ main(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://www.alug.org.uk/ http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above!

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Re: [ALUG] Setting up listserve
by Peter 12 Oct '05

12 Oct '05

Well, riseup.net is wonderful and reminds me of my youth - but the residents of my village are middleaged at best, and only interesting in discussing how to manage their Staithe and moorings better. Radical social change is far, yes, maybe too far, from their minds. Don't laugh, its coming towards you too, every day! Wrote to Black Cat, thanks for the suggestion. Regards Peter

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Re: Rethemeing Engine...
by John Seago 12 Oct '05

12 Oct '05

Way back when I worked in the printing industry, (when we set metal type by hand), there was a considered opinion that the coastline of Eastern England was in itself a visual image that was instantly recognisable. Why not therefore, try using the section of the Map of the UK now coloured yellow on the ALUG page, fading away the inland edges and superimposing a Tux on top? I would suggest using the present Tux on the left hand side of the page and extending the Eastern England area to encompass him/her. -- John Seago GNU/Linux User #219566 http://counter.li.org/ AFFS http://www.affs.org.uk/ HTML mail rejected

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Setting up listserve
by Peter 11 Oct '05

11 Oct '05

Question: for our village, I would like to set up a mailing list, so I don't have to keep sending out paper minutes and action items for a local group I'm being made responsible for. Any suggestions on who to get service from, what to use and so on? It will be small membership and low traffic. Regards Peter Berrie

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RE: [ALUG] Rethemeing Engine...
by Keith Watson 11 Oct '05

11 Oct '05

> From: James Taylor Sent: 10 October 2005 12:55 > Keith Watson wrote: > >>From: Matt Parker Sent: 10 October 2005 11:02 On Monday 10 October > >>2005 09:28, Adam Bower wrote: > >>>Does anyone on the list have any ideas about what really pushes "East Anglia" graphically? > >> > >>Tux in the Sutton Hoo helmet? > > > >Tux in a chariot doing a Boudicca impression? > > > I still like the (slefs?) suggestion of a tux riding a gnu > with a lance in the style of anglia tv... but a) our graphics > sk1ll5s suck and b) none of us could exactly place who the > man was - we thought he was hereward the wake, only i doubt > that because herewards castle was in Bourne and there arn't > any of his symbols anywhere near there... I suspect it may be based on this <http://www.milesfaster.co.uk/gallery/parliament-square/richard-the-lion heart.htm> but the definitive answer is <http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=g82tj74eg7sdk?method=4&d sid=2222&dekey=Anglia+knight&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01a&linktext=Ang lia%20knight> Regards, Keith ____________ Sometimes the highest form of action is inaction. - Jerry Brown

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Rethemeing Engine...
by Brett Parker 11 Oct '05

11 Oct '05

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, Right - I've improved my rethemeing script a bit, and now it can cope with different themes (sortof), so, if anyone has got a shiny new theme, then throw it at me and I'll drop it on the site. Basic requirements for a theme this end: * HTML template using the following as place holders for things: +  - should be fairly self explainatory +  - guess what goes here! * A CSS style sheet * A spare 5 minutes for me to check the theme, plonk it in to a directory, and quickly test it Current 'themes' can now be viewed at: http://www.sommitrealweird.co.uk/alug/retheme-engine/ Basically they're all currently based off of (Stilvoid|Steve)'s origional redesign. The one that's still named 'stilvoid' is the closest to his origional theme that he pasted on to IRC, with some *very* minor modifications. If anyone has any further suggestions, comments, useful information etc please feel free to either contact me directly or via the list. Thanks, - -- Brett Parker web: http://www.sommitrealweird.co.uk/ email: iDunno(a)sommitrealweird.co.uk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDR9gJEh8oWxevnjQRAkvpAJ45kQH67DAfb0gx//s2U7o8syDiUACePl79 9pzxHxYzX0dVRZ0igjpdAqA= =ME2A -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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ISND issues and Penguins
by tom potts 11 Oct '05

11 Oct '05

I left a company two years ago and they had fitted me with an ISDN connection. The ISDN connection still works - I think BT have forgotten about it..... As for the Anglia Knight - whats wrong with emphasising the fact that the penguin is the beast of burden/ferrari here and have the knight riding Tux - all in the best possible taste of course! ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

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Re: [ALUG] Rethemeing Engine...
by John Seago 11 Oct '05

11 Oct '05

On Tuesday 11 October 2005 12:00, James Taylor <james.taylor(a)stealthnet.net> wrote: > none of us could exactly place who the man was - we thought he was > hereward the wake, only i doubt that because herewards castle was in > Bourne and there arn't any of his symbols anywhere near there... Anglia TV, (when it was Anglia TV) used to give out a postcard sized photo of him with an explanation on the reverse. As far as I can remember he started out as a trophy for some kind of Falconry contest, presented by the King of the Netherlands. Went through various hands and misfortunes and ended up as the Station ID and in the foyer of Anglia TV. I wonder where he is now, as there was an awful lot of silver in him? -- John Seago GNU/Linux User #219566 http://counter.li.org/ AFFS http://www.affs.org.uk/ HTML mail rejected

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Re: Broadband dilemma
by Peter 11 Oct '05

11 Oct '05

I ordered BT Broadband with a Game Router a couple of years ago for a friend - he had ISDN, so ordering from anyone but BT involved ISDN cancellation charges, and going with BT got him a free router. It went in on time and has worked just fine ever since. The BT Game Router, at least, works with Linux, its accessible in the usual way from a web browser. I was a bit surprised to discover that it came configured with the firewall off and no password or user name or configuration guide in the documentation. Maybe that is somewhat understandable in a Game Router. However, calling support got these quite easily. The main reason for buying from a reseller rather than direct must be price. If you look at the pricing from Tiscali, say, as compared to BT Retail, there's around £100 a year in it and no difference in service. They really need to get the fat out of Retail. We ourselves bought Tiscali, threw out the usb modem, bought a Hayes one port modem/router from Ebuyer, and hooked that up to our ethernet hub. I had to call Hayes support to get it configured right, but they were wonderfully helpful and very well informed. Tiscali, or the router, seems to lose the IP address every three or four months - which rebooting the router fixes. We are not very demanding users, but it works fine. My neighbour, who is a more demanding user, also has Tiscali, also provided his own router, and is quite satisfied. Regards, Peter

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RE: [ALUG] The Anglia Knight, was: Rethemeing Engine...
by Keith Watson 10 Oct '05

10 Oct '05

> From: MJ Ray Sent: 10 October 2005 14:47 ... > Unfortunately, the real knight is too skinny to be replaced > with a fat penguin without looking seriously strange, at Perhaps something based on Henry VIII would be better source material? Regards, Keith ____________ Mistakes are the portals of discovery. - James Joyce

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RE: [ALUG] Rethemeing Engine...
by Keith Watson 10 Oct '05

10 Oct '05

> From: Matt Parker Sent: 10 October 2005 11:02 > On Monday 10 October 2005 09:28, Adam Bower wrote: > > Does anyone on the list have any ideas about what really > pushes "East Anglia" graphically? > > Tux in the Sutton Hoo helmet? Tux in a chariot doing a Boudicca impression? Regards, Keith ____________ 'Remain steadfast...and one day you will build something that endures; - something worthy of your potential.' - - Epictetus

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Linux PC
by Dave Briggs 10 Oct '05

10 Oct '05

Right, well, I've been meddling on the fringes of Open Source and linux for too long: using free software on Windows wherever I can, having a dual boot PC a couple of years back, messing around with live CDs since. But now I guess it is time to go for it, and as I 'need' to get a new desktop PC soon, I am going to make it a Linux only machine. Brave of me, huh? Anyhow, what options are there? Buy a windows PC and install Linux over the top? Buy a linux ready PC? Or buy the bits and do it myself? I do want to make this a linux only box, with all the bits in it those known to work well with the penguin. Any thoughts? -- Dave Briggs linux(a)davebriggs.net | http://davebriggs.net | http://palimpsest.org.uk

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RE: [ALUG] Rethemeing Engine...
by Keith Watson 10 Oct '05

10 Oct '05

> From: MJ Ray Sent: 10 October 2005 00:57 > Brett Parker <iDunno(a)sommitrealweird.co.uk> > > > Also, from IRC earlier, maybe it's time we actually got us a pretty > > logo, so any logo developers out there that want to take a > stab at it, > > please do. [...] > > For my entry in the retheme competition, I'm struggling to > find a suitable picture that conveys "Anglia" or ALUG's sense > of place in the world too. My current ideas are the Norwich > skyline (visible at http://mjr.towers.org.uk/comp/alugtalk/ > just now), Ely cathedral, Orwell bridge, or Lynn's custom > house. UEA Nelson Court (kit meeting venue) is showing on > Brett's rethemer. If you have an idea or - even better - a > suitable base image, please email me or mention it on > irc.alug.org.uk #alug tomorrow 8pm. > I always liked slef's idea of tux in armour riding on a Gnu (sinilar to the old Anglia TV logo). Started fiddling around with this some time back but my GIMP skills are not up to it. Got some reference images somewhere is anyone else want's a go. Regards, Keith ____________ I have just three things to teach: simplicity, patience, compassion. - These three are your greatest treasures. - Lao-Tzu

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Brett Parker 10 Oct '05

10 Oct '05

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. Historically, these used to be the only time a lot of us would be about, now the channel has some usual faces that are there most of the time (except at silly o'clock, when we might be sleeping, or on the second thursday of the month, where we might be drinking in the Reindeer), so don't feel limited to visit during this time, come visit us when ever you feel like it! The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include xchat, irssi and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://www.irssi.org/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Broadband dilemma
by Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 09 Oct '05

09 Oct '05

Hi Folks, I'd welcome comments on the following situation. According to the Sphinx, my exchange is due to be BB enabled on 12 October -- a mere 4 days off!!!! It's a BT exchange (Brandon Creek), a BT phone line, and I'm a BT customer for the telephone service (and, currently, also for dialup acess). The only external signs of activity I've seen so far, passing by the other day, is that the radio dish on top of the pole, which used to face South towards Littleport, now faces North. So maybe something really is happening! More to the point, between me and it is some 5km of overhead cable, as things stand at the moment (they sometimes fall down, literally ... ). BT's website tells me, this morning: "Check availability - results For Telephone Number 01353676*** on Exchange BRANDON CREEK Our initial test on your line indicates that you may be able to get Broadband from BT with speeds up to 1Mb, which is up to 20 times faster than dial-up. At the moment, your telephone line is unable to support our 2Mb speed broadband package. Also, due to the length of your line, an engineer visit may be required to set up your broadband service. Your local BT telephone exchange is unable to support broadband at the moment, but it will by 12th October 2005. If you decide to place an order, a further test will be performed to confirm if your line is suitable for the speed of service you wish to order. Order Broadband from BT online and get a FREE modem saving you a £25 charge which applies if you order by phone." This raises a number of issues, in the context of the fact that, a priori, I'm not that keen to order broadband from BT anyway, for various reasons (one of which is their attitude to non-Windows users -- their basic service, for example, is apparently not even Mac-compatible!). 1. "you may be able to get Broadband from BT with speeds up to 1Mb," 2. "Also, due to the length of your line, an engineer visit may be required to set up your broadband service." 3. "If you decide to place an order, a further test will be performed to confirm if your line is suitable for the speed of service you wish to order." All of this tends to point to the possibility that it might not work without engineer intervention (if at all ... ). So the dilemma is: If I order broadband from a non-BT ISP, where would their engineer stand, being non-BT, in the event of difficulties arising from the BT part of the system (the setup in the exchange, the length and quality of the overhead cable, the final line from the pole to my house, etc. The latter, for instance, had to be renewed by a BT engineer a while ago because its covering had perished, letting the rain in to the cable. Who knows what the cable's like further back along the line ... )? Would a non-BT engineer be able to fix problems that a BT engineer could fix (which might involve fiddling with exchange setups)? If there could be snags on that front, then maybe going for non-BT might be a bad idea, though on other grounds it would be a good idea! (I'm particularly tempted by comments on some of the ISPs that have come up recently on ALUG). Another issue is the "modem/router" that BT would supply (free according to the above, though that's not an important factor). I wonder how a non-BT modem/router would work in this case. I happen to have in hand at the moment a Peak CAS4047 "High Speed 1 WAN 4LAN Broadband Router" (quoting from the box), which claims to be RJ45-connectable to a Cable/DSL modem, so this should in principle be OK provided there's a modem for it to connect to. But I wonder about the BT "modem/router". I've tested the Peak's browser accessibility (point Firefox to "http://192.168.1.254" and you can have a nice little chat with it, apparently allowing all sorts of things to be set up including routing to the internal fixed IPs of your LAN, while getting a dynamic IP for itself from the ISP, not to mention various firewalling options). So it looks good. But it would be plugging into the BT modem. Any likely problems? NB that BT assert on their website that their "modem/router" requires Windows compatibility. I'm not going to waste my time trying to find out from BT Customer Support whether that's really true, or whether you can just switch it on, plug in any DSL-compatible router, wait for it to get its IP address, and then simply carry on, independently of not using Windows. So I think the dilemma can be summed up: Would I, as a Linux user, be buggered if I got a BT installation? Would I be buggered anyway if I got another ISP to provide the service? Comments welcome! (Please remember that I'm totally new to this area of going on-line, so I'm not familiar with the bits and pieces). Best wishes to all, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 08-Oct-05 Time: 13:34:23 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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