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Fw: [ALUG] Coming down to earth
by Keith Watson 12 Jul '04

12 Jul '04

Begin forwarded message: Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 20:43:53 +0100 From: Keith Watson <keith@watson> To: alug <main(a)lists.alug.org.uk> Cc: Syd Hancock <syd(a)toufol.com>, IanBell <ian(a)redtommo.com>, Graham Trott <gt(a)pobox.com> Subject: Re: [ALUG] Coming down to earth At 07:09 on Tue, 6 Jul 2004, Bryce Martin wrote: > Hello, > I would like to extend the discussion about weekend > trials or expositions of various equipment or > software. > I consider myself to be an ordinary modern linux user > that struggles with the most basic problems of > everyday useage. I don't want to list the most common > difficulties that face the 'ordinary (none technical) > user' because I don't know what they might be, but > plugins for the very popular browsers konqueror and > mozilla 1.7 could possibly be dealt with via the alug > mailing list. I don't just mean refering users to a > web site, which could be a good thing, but actually > creating emails that show 'step by step' how to > install a certain plugin or other task. Our top > exponents of linux might enjoy writing these postings. > Documentation relating to linux across the board is > poor, in my opinion. Could we as a user group make a > difference to this problem of documentation by helping > with a (very loosely) structured education program > that is conducted via the alug mailing list? The > mailing list serves the really knowledgable linux > users quite well in a conversational way, but now that > linux is so much more mainstream, it would be nice to > punctuate these savvy conversations with (possibly) > regular(ish) instruction on the basics of linux. We > could focus on the most basic configuration tasks via > our mailing list to help NEW users of linux, and still > enjoy the very stimulating discussions of experienced > users. > I would enjoy reading the unsolicited configurational > instruction of an experienced user that was posted to > the list on more BASIC topics. It could become normal > practice. > It can't hurt, but would take a little effort > admittedly. > Kind regards, > Bryce. > A bit late but Snap! I've been thinking along similar lines for a while now. I must say that with Linux I find that it's not the lack of info. that's a problem but the excess of info. To start with most pieces of software installed usually have a whole chunk of documentation (admittedly it can be patchy, but, IME, it's usually reasonably complete) and then there's the Linux Documentation Project that has tons of stuff and then there's loads of mailing lists like this that can be searched with Google. Often what's needed when you're just getting into something is quick concise answers to some of the basic problems i.e. how do I do a basic install/configure of this? or I installed that and now this is broke how do I fix it? (and some help in finding your way around the terminology) In mailing lists like this it's not always easy to indicate what you have under your belt already so that those who reply can pitch the answer at the right level. Perhaps a better way is for us to help ourselves by using the wiki pages and instead of HOWTOs adding our own HOWIDIDITS? What I was thinking is that whenever one of us, whatever our level of experience with GNU/Linux, tackles and resolves a problem, e.g installing a bit of hardware or configuring/upgrading a piece of software, we could add a wiki page with a short write up and appropriate links to other sources of info. we used. Not as formal or structured as a HOWTO perhaps just a simple log of steps taken and what happened, but I'm sure that over time it would contain useful hits and tips. I believe the wiki already has an area for this so what we need to do is get list members to use it. In this way everyone can usefully contribute. Regards, Keith -------------- See into life. Don't just look at it. - Anne Baxter Regards, Keith -------------- The saddest thing in the world is a person with sight but no vision. - Helen Keller

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 12 Jul '04

12 Jul '04

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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RE: [ALUG] Alug Library!
by Keith Watson 12 Jul '04

12 Jul '04

> From: Kirsten Naylor Sent: 10 July 2004 00:56 > > The library has grown unwieldy now, and too big to haul to > any meetings > really except Sunday afternoon meetings such as at Syleham (short > staggering distance from car boot to table top). (Thanks to everyone > who has donated books lately!) So I draw everyone's attention to > http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?LibraryBooklist which, now I > look at it, > ought to have ISBNs listed and a short description of each > book, to aid > people in making their selections. > > The idea is that those who would like books from the library > place their > requests with me or Adam (quinophex) and we will deliver to the next > meeting, whenever that may be. If you live outside the > Norwich area and > can't attend Norwich meetings, we'd appreciate it if you'd cover the > postage costs for us to post the book to you. > > Books can be returned, more or less at leisure (no time limit on the > loan as such, in practice six months is about the limit) in the same > fashion, or posted, or whatever as long as we get them back :) > > I will endeavour to get descriptions up as soon as possible. How about just linking back to the publishers site or Amazon or whatever? > > /Kirsten Regards, Keith ____________ Do not fear the arising of thoughts - only be concerned lest your awareness of them be tardy. - Zen Saying

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Horde webmail and proxies, any experience anyone?
by Chris Green 12 Jul '04

12 Jul '04

Does anyone here use Horde's webmail and know if there are any issues around using it on, for example, BT Broadband? My daughter is seeing some rather strange symptoms which might be explained by a proxy doing funny things when she looks at her mail using webmail. -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk)

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Meeting report - City Gate, Thursday 8th July
by Kirsten Naylor 12 Jul '04

12 Jul '04

Another successful City Gate meeting! Not as many turned up as said they would, but still new and unseen-for-some-time faces there. Present were: Jonathan (Noodles) Martijn (mak) Adam (quinophex) Paul (paul_c) James (mChicago) Bryce Girlfriend of Bryce (sorry, didn't catch your name! Bryce, can you fill us in?) Kirsten (wildduck) We missed Elisabeth (sunflowerinrain) who was stuck in traffic and Brett (iDunno) who couldn't make it, also MJR (slef) and a couple of others who evidently were thwarted in the final hours. A convivial meeting as usual, made more interesting by the new people and the cool little phone/PDA gadget Martijn showed us. Lots of Linux talk, drinking of beer and munching of crisps and peanuts, frozen-bubble on Paul's laptop, and I am sure many things I missed while I was reading Linux User&Developer magazine or while I was just not paying attention :) Hope everyone will be there again at the next City Gate meeting (Thursday 12 August 8pm) Sadly Adam and I will be in France then, but back as usual in September. /Kirsten

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 12 Jul '04

12 Jul '04

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Problems sending replies to ALUG list
by Ian Douglas 11 Jul '04

11 Jul '04

I am confused. Each time I have tried to send replies to posts on the ALUG list this morning an error box has appeared on my PC saying: ERROR: Sending failed: a SMTP error occurred. Command: DATA Response: 452 Filesystem error - message not accepted The message will stay in the 'outbox' folder until you either fix the problem (e.g. a broken address) or remove the message from the 'outbox' folder. Note other messages will also be blocked by this message as long as it in the 'outbox' folder. The following transport protocol was used: smtp://smtp.ntlworld.com:25 I have therefore resent my reply. However looking at my inbox it does seem though that this error message is wrong and my replies have indeed reached the ALUG list ok. Anyone any idea what is going on? I am creating the messages using kmail 1.3.2 (part of Debian 3.0) and seem to be able to send test messages to my other ISP account ok. Ian.

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Alug Library!
by Kirsten Naylor 10 Jul '04

10 Jul '04

The library has grown unwieldy now, and too big to haul to any meetings really except Sunday afternoon meetings such as at Syleham (short staggering distance from car boot to table top). (Thanks to everyone who has donated books lately!) So I draw everyone's attention to http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?LibraryBooklist which, now I look at it, ought to have ISBNs listed and a short description of each book, to aid people in making their selections. The idea is that those who would like books from the library place their requests with me or Adam (quinophex) and we will deliver to the next meeting, whenever that may be. If you live outside the Norwich area and can't attend Norwich meetings, we'd appreciate it if you'd cover the postage costs for us to post the book to you. Books can be returned, more or less at leisure (no time limit on the loan as such, in practice six months is about the limit) in the same fashion, or posted, or whatever as long as we get them back :) I will endeavour to get descriptions up as soon as possible. /Kirsten

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FF: dive and LinuxUser&Developer 36
by MJ Ray 10 Jul '04

10 Jul '04

I have a copy of the dive book+CD published by Liverpool-based FACT which I will pass on or post to any ALUGger who wants it. ISBN 0-9541604-9-5 contains essays about free software and copyleft culture. The CD contains a dyne:bolic bootable distribution. I'd be happy if you pass it on again when you're done. If unwanted, I offer this to the ALUG library. I also have LinuxUser&Developer issue 36. The unopened CD pack is the one with the Sun desktop and 500 packages. If unwanted, it will be recycled on Friday 23 July. Thanks, -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and not of any group I know http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ for creative copyleft computing "Before we try to work out if he's competent, let's work out if he's conscious." (anon. exam marker)

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New CD drive not accessable
by Ian Douglas 10 Jul '04

10 Jul '04

Hi Folks, I installed Debian 3.0 on my PC ages ago and have been happily using it ever since. However, a few minutes ago, I upgraded my CD drive from a standard CD drive to a CDRW drive and I can now no longer access any CDs. If I try to mount a CD then I get an error message saying it is not a valid block device: giraffe:~# mount /dev/hdd /mnt2 mount: /dev/hdd is not a valid block device If however I scan through the output of dmesg I can see it listed: hdd: ATAPI CD-RW 16/12/40X, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive What do I need to tweak in order to be able to access CDs using this new CD drive? Thanks, Ian.

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RE: [ALUG] dpkg-dist error on installing postgresql
by Jenny Hopkins 09 Jul '04

09 Jul '04

> >Well, this is an interesting question that I have as a debian user: > >stable is still using postgresql 7.2. Current postgresql > version is up to 7.4, however. How can I keep my server > running stable but also keeping a bit more up to date with > versions of things? > >Jen > > > > In the case of PostgreSQL you can just compile it yourself as > it has tools to enable you to upgrade your data stores built in. > > Matt > I've been advised in the past that the trouble with compiling yourself in a debian system is that it breaks the integrity of the package system: do you mean here that you compile it and it kind of stays in sync with the apt system? Someone sent me a site offlist I didn't know existed: www.backports.org (thanks, Sue - tried to reply but it kept bouncing back). Jen ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

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RE: [ALUG] dpkg-dist error on installing postgresql
by Jenny Hopkins 09 Jul '04

09 Jul '04

-----Original Message----- > From: Tim Green [mailto:tim@spodlife.org] > Sent: 30 June 2004 13:18 > > I shudder to think what would have happened if this was my live box > > and not the playpen. > > Thanks, > > Jen > > I shudder to think anyone would think to upgrade from stable > to testing on a live box at all! > > Well, this is an interesting question that I have as a debian user: stable is still using postgresql 7.2. Current postgresql version is up to 7.4, however. How can I keep my server running stable but also keeping a bit more up to date with versions of things? Jen ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

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Thunderbird checking mail in all IMAP folders
by Martijn Koster 09 Jul '04

09 Jul '04

This came up last night... I'm using Thunderbird (0.6 on Linux, 0.7.2 on Windows) against a Courier IMAP server, and use mailfilter server-side to filter email into 70 different folders. By default Thunderbird doesn't check all folders for new messages when you hit "Get Messages". You can right-click a folder, select the Properties menu, and tick "Check this folder for new messages". But obviously that's rather tedious with that many folders. There is no UI to set "Check all folders for new messages" in Account Settings/Server Settings. After some Googling I found a hack: http://texturizer.net/thunderbird/tips.html#beh_downloadstartup http://texturizer.net/thunderbird/edit.html which works as advertised. -- Martijn

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KDE killed
by IanBell 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

I did a silly thing. I run Mandrake 9.2 and have a separate partition for home. On a spare partition I installed Slackware 9.1 and set its home to the above mentioned partition. Then under slack set up a new user with same name/password as the main user in home (hopefully) to access all the settings/data. Trouble is in doing this I seem to have knackered KDE. It stops with a message about the dcop server. Fortunately Gnome still works fine, and seems to pick up the entire KDE desktop icons and menus - that's how I am sending this email. So the question is how to get kde going again, and a corollary, how should I have set up Slackware to be able to access my existing home directory in the first place? Ian

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Re: [ALUG] ALUG and the Empty Lands
by John Seago 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

On Wednesday Steve Purkiss <bnmlist(a)open4.org> wrote: <snip> > or this thursday in Ipswich - > > Club member Leo Borwick's also running the Ipswich A12 club and I'm > going up to his event this Thursday at 8pm in the Curve Bar - this list > seems to be more North than me so if anyone's around then I'd be more > than happy to meet up there... for more info (and a profile with pic > hehe) see http://www.ecademy.com or join up for free on > http://www.open4.org/joinA12club Perhaps here is an opportunity for whoever it was who wanted meetings in Ipswich, (I don't have time to go back through the archives), to get in touch with Steve, with a view to expanding ALUG's activites further South. -- John Seago Linux User #219566 (http://counter.li.org)

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Re: [ALUG] Wires Only Broadband Suggestions
by Nick Heppleston 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

Thanks Laurie, For the benefit of ALUG members can you detail what deals you can provide? I'll contact you off list to discuss my specific requirements. Cheers, Nick On Wed, 2004-07-07 at 14:36, Laurie Brown wrote: > Nick Heppleston wrote: > > > I'll be moving back to Norwich this weekend and one of the first things > > on my to-do list is broadband. > > > > So, I'm looking for recommendations on wires only packages - I'm not > > particularly bothered about static/dynamic IP's although price might be > > a factor in the decision. Who do you recommend/wouldn't want to touch > > with a barge pole? > > We're resellers for Claranet. They aren't the cheapest for domestic, but > their service is top. They also do static IP for a one-off £25 fee, which is > a bargain. See http://www.clara.net (we don't mark-up the prices). > > We'd be happy to do a deal for ALUG members. > > Cheers, Laurie. -- Nick Heppleston 07989 581766 | nickheppleston(a)gmx.co.uk

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Warning From MS: Beware of Large User Groups
by kpwatson＠pop3.ukfsn.org 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

Yes, according to /. MS have a knowledgebase article that warns about the problems of large user groups. I quote; " If a user group contains more than 500 users, the hair colour of the "person" .... changes to grey. This does not affect the functionality of the group or the users for whom the hair colour ... changes. This issue affects built-in groups, local groups, and global groups." See <http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;281923> Regards, Keith ____________ Has anyone attained wisdom by pondering the experience of others? Not since the world began, they must pass through the fire. Norman Douglas

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Decent broadband suppliers
by phil 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

Well - I'm getting fine service at home from Talia at £19.99 a month - plus the VAT, and no contract. At work I've got everything running through biscit.net - about £27 when I set it up, but I think they've done some cut price deals for home users now. A fine company run by people with real names that you can contact. Neither seem to have a cap on how much is downloaded that I've reached, even downloading Mandrake PPC and Yellow dog iso's in a day. That's my tuppence worth anyway.

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Availability
by John Seago 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

Unfortunately my Father-in -law was rushed into hospital on Monday morning. this has meant that my wife and I are taking my Mother -in-law into hospital every day. I shall therefore not be available to carry forward any of the matters which I started action on in the recent past for some days/weeks. However, it would appear that Steve Purkiss <bnmlist(a)open4.org> has volunteered/had his arm twisted, to act in some capacity in either reviving ELUG or expanding ALUG from Ipswich to the south. I will be watching the list, and when I get the time offer what help I can. -- John Seago Linux User #219566 (http://counter.li.org)

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Norwich pub meeting, City Gate 8pm Thursday 8th
by adam＠thebowery.co.uk 07 Jul '04

07 Jul '04

Hi people, The next 'second thursday' evening meeting in Norwich will be held on Thursday, the 8th of July at the City Gate, Dereham Road, from about 8pm. Venue and meeting details: http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2004/all-NorThu.html If you want library books then check the list at http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?LibraryBooklist and let me or Kirsty know beforehand and we will bring books for you (some of those on that list may currently be lent out) I also have a copy of Linux User & Developer Magazine to give away. Also, If anyone wants any Linux Distros or other GPL/Free Software downloaded and burned to a CD-Rom to save your dialup let me know in advance. If you are /really/ poor I can supply you CDs for free, but buying me a drink would be a suitable form of payment. Seeyou on Thursday! Thanks Adam -- jabberid = quinophex(a)jabber.earth.li AFFS || http://www.affs.org.uk/ || Not a filesystem

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Knoppix & modems
by BenEBoy 07 Jul '04

07 Jul '04

Someone at work posted a question to the message board there. I suggested a nasty hack as a solution, could someone suggest anything better please? The person is using knoppix, running from the CD (no HD install) and they are trying to get the drivers for their new intel PCI hardware modem working. The problem is the install script is set up to install the binaries to /usr/sbin and that directory is read only. He assumed that this was because the directory is on the CD and not in the ramdisk. Under that assumption I suggested the following... copy /usr/sbin to /home/knoppix/sbin (I assumed the home dir is in RAM) add the new sbin dir to $PATH (and here's the nasty bit) change the mount point of the floppy drive to /usr/sbin mount a floppy then run the script. *If* it works then it should be a case of adding /mnt/floppy/sbin to $PATH after a reboot and everything should work, yes? Rather than using a nice variable, in the install script every reference to /usr is hardcoded. I suppose a global search/replace would be a good option too... ta, BenE

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Decent broadband suppliers
by phil 07 Jul '04

07 Jul '04

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midi music
by Stan Fraser 07 Jul '04

07 Jul '04

what are the best packages (similar to Cakewalk or Cubasis) for a wannabe "Disco Noise" composer. Best Regards Stan

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Wires Only Broadband Suggestions
by Nick Heppleston 07 Jul '04

07 Jul '04

I'll be moving back to Norwich this weekend and one of the first things on my to-do list is broadband. So, I'm looking for recommendations on wires only packages - I'm not particularly bothered about static/dynamic IP's although price might be a factor in the decision. Who do you recommend/wouldn't want to touch with a barge pole? Cheers, Nick ps. I'll also be attending the Norwich meetings from now on! -- Nick Heppleston 07989 581766 | nickheppleston(a)gmx.co.uk

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Meeting venue offered
by Karl Foley 07 Jul '04

07 Jul '04

Although I don't have time to organise a meeting I can make a venue available in Felixstowe for free. I've posted details on the Alug website at the URL Keith mentioned: http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?DemosOfferedDemosWanted This is our Learndirect centre that has all the infrastructure required, just bring your machines, organiser and members! ;-)

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