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Problem delivering local mail
by Ian Douglas 19 Jul '04

19 Jul '04

Hi Folks, I am having trouble sending mail to other users on my PC. I used to me able to type "mail tux" at the shell prompt and create a mail which was delivered to user "tux" on my local PC but can no longer do this. Now if I try and send mail to local user "tux" then something on my system is incorrectly expanding the "To" address to tux(a)uk2.net (uk2 is my ISP) and sending it to my ISPs SMTP server, rather than simply putting it in tux's local inbox. My message to my local user therefore gets bounced back by UK2 as undeliverable (i.e mail to local users is now being treated as mail for remote users and leaves my PC rather than remaining on it and being instantly put in their local mailbox). If I try and send mail to my local user "tux" by quoting the full name of the local PC after his username: tux(a)bobbin.haberdashery.willowwindmill.net it again leaves my PC and is sent to my ISPs SMTP mailserver and is bounced back as undeliverable. I have copied the full text of the error messages I am getting onto the following webpage rather than appending them to this message: www.k1ngph1cher.uklinux.net/bobbinmailerrors.htm I guess I must have misconfigured something but am unsure what and don't know which files I need to edit to correct this. What do I need to tweak so that mail for local users is routed locally within my PC instead of being sent externally via my ISP? In case it is relevant the particular PC concerned (bobbin.haberdashery.willowwindmill.net) is running Slackware 10.0 Second question: Because of my mail delivery tests I now appear to have several test mail messages stuck in a mail queue somewhere on my PC. How do I delete all these duff messages from the mail queue so I can start sending valid emails again? Ta muchly! Ian.

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 19 Jul '04

19 Jul '04

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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gtoaster
by Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 17 Jul '04

17 Jul '04

Hi Folks, I'm experimenting with gtoaster (can use xcdroast OK but interested by this other program). All I'm trying to do at the moment is to write a backup copy of my home directory ( /home/ted ) to CD. However, I'm up against a blank wall at one point, and I'd be grateful if anyone can help me past it. 1. Startup gtoaster -- OK 2. In top left-hand panel, click "+" of "Unix Tree" to expand it -- OK 3. Click on "+" of "home" to expand it -- OK 4. "Drag&drop" "ted" into borrom RH panel -- OK (list of files flashes by) 5. Bottom LH panel has an item "CDROM" whose "+" expands to "ted" which in turn expands to the files in /home/ted. So far so good, apparently. However, at the bottom is "Fillstate 0MB/ 746<B" and there seems to be nothing I can do to get it to recognise that there's 488MB in the filesystem /home/ted. Also, on the lower RH panel, all it says is "ted 4096 bytes" which is just the size of the directory stub itself, not of its contents. Gtoaster will now allow me to write a CD, but all it contains is the directory stub. So that's my blank wall: I want to climb past this so that it actually writes the files under /home/ted to the CD, and I can't for the life of me see what the trick is! Nor does the documentation help. gtoaster-1.0beta6 on Red Hat 9.1 So all suggestions gratefully received. Best wishes to all, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 167 1972 Date: 17-Jul-04 Time: 23:03:38 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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Coming down to earth
by Bryce Martin 16 Jul '04

16 Jul '04

Hello, I would like to extend the discussion about weekend trials or expositions of various equipment or software. I consider myself to be an ordinary modern linux user that struggles with the most basic problems of everyday useage. I don't want to list the most common difficulties that face the 'ordinary (none technical) user' because I don't know what they might be, but plugins for the very popular browsers konqueror and mozilla 1.7 could possibly be dealt with via the alug mailing list. I don't just mean refering users to a web site, which could be a good thing, but actually creating emails that show 'step by step' how to install a certain plugin or other task. Our top exponents of linux might enjoy writing these postings. Documentation relating to linux across the board is poor, in my opinion. Could we as a user group make a difference to this problem of documentation by helping with a (very loosely) structured education program that is conducted via the alug mailing list? The mailing list serves the really knowledgable linux users quite well in a conversational way, but now that linux is so much more mainstream, it would be nice to punctuate these savvy conversations with (possibly) regular(ish) instruction on the basics of linux. We could focus on the most basic configuration tasks via our mailing list to help NEW users of linux, and still enjoy the very stimulating discussions of experienced users. I would enjoy reading the unsolicited configurational instruction of an experienced user that was posted to the list on more BASIC topics. It could become normal practice. It can't hurt, but would take a little effort admittedly. Kind regards, Bryce. ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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External CD-RW for laptop?
by Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 15 Jul '04

15 Jul '04

Hi Folks, Has anyone any comments on possibilities for external CD-RW units for attaching to a laptop? DVD support is not needed, but if inevitable in order to have CD-RW then so be it. All I'm really interested in is writing CDs (there's already an internal CRDOM reader). I suppose USB is the way to go. One thing I'm (perhaps too theoretically) concerned about: To write a CD, the unit will need power which would be drawn from the laptop (unless the unit has an external power supply). Any known issues about this aspect of the matter? Might the laptop not be able to cope with the power demand? Any other issues? Total ignoramus here! Thanks, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 167 1972 Date: 15-Jul-04 Time: 13:46:05 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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Problem configuring procmail
by Ian Douglas 14 Jul '04

14 Jul '04

Hi Folks, I am having a bit of hassle configuring procmail. I have created a test user called tux and have confirmed I can send mail to him. I have then created a /home/tux/.procmailrc file containing: [tux@alice tux]$ cat .procmailrc VERBOSE=on MAILDIR=$HOME/mail PMDIR=$HOME/.procmail LOGFILE=$PMDIR/log INCLUDERC=$PMDIR/rc.testing I have also created a /home/tux/.procmail directory and created a rc.testing file in it containing: [tux@alice tux]$ cat ~/.procmail/rc.testing :0: * ^Subject:.*HOT SPAM.HOT I then created a /home/tux/.forward file (which I copied from a book and don't understand) containing: [tux@alice tux]$ cat ~/.forward "|IFS=' ' && exec /usr/bin/procmail -f || exec 75 tux" If however I try to send tux an email I get an error email back containing the following: ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- "|IFS=' ' && exec /usr/bin/procmail -f || exec 75 tux" (expanded from: tux) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- sh: cannot use & in command 554 "|IFS=' ' && exec /usr/bin/procmail -f || exec 75 tux"... Service unavailable Do any ALUGers have any experience of configuring procmail and can help me suss out a correct ~/.forward file to invoke it? Ta muchly! Ian.

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Re: [ALUG] Aim & Purpose
by John Seago 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

On Tuesday 13 Jul 2004 00:17, MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> wrote: > > Do you think it is possible for you all to agree and define the AIM of > > ALUG and the PURPOSE of the aim. [...] > > From past experience: No. I would have to agree with Mark, however, I find ALUG to be a thing so wonderful, that I am trying to, either extend ALUG to the South into Essex, or to encourage those that I can find in the area to form an Essex LUG, so that they can enjoy an unstructured anarchic group with a common interest in GNU/Linux. Perhaps that is ALUG's aim, to be an unstructured, anarchic group with a common interest in GNU/linux, covering the Anglian area, with some of its members providing mailing list administration, a Library etc. -- John Seago Linux User #219566 (http://counter.li.org)

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Re: [ALUG] Red Hat 9 registration & apm command
by John Seago 13 Jul '04

13 Jul '04

"R.F.Jarvis" <robert.jarvis90(a)ntlworld.com> wrote: > Thanks Martyn, does this mean that the problem I have with the apm > command locking my computer cannot be resolved without the updates? > If I decide to try fedora does this overwrite redhat9? > Bearing in mind that I have a stand alone computer, (Dual boot with > Windows XP) that is only for personal use and wish only to become > familiar with a Linux OS. You may be better off with one of the other distributions in that case, I found Slackware to be a good choice for me. Have a look here: http://www.distrowatch.com/ and see if theres a distribution that suits your needs. Whatever you choose someone on this list will at least have an idea why X, Y, or Z 'does that' or 'doesn't do this', and be able if not to offer help, point you in the right direction. -- John Seago Linux User #219566 (http://counter.li.org)

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Red Hat 9 registration & apm command
by R.F.Jarvis 12 Jul '04

12 Jul '04

Can anyone help me to solve 2 problems I have with red hat 9? 1. I cannot register for updates. The first step (privacy statement) remains blank with the cursor showing busy. The next set of steps are filled in with the required information, but finishes with the error, problem registering user name. 2. If I use the apm command to suspend or standby, the screen shuts down then immediately turns itself back on, then the terminal window continually writes, root @ localhost root, until it is full. Then all programs do not respond,then eventually the whole screen is locked so the computer has to be turned off. Bob Jarvis. (New to Linux)

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Fw: [ALUG] Coming down to earth
by Keith Watson 12 Jul '04

12 Jul '04

Begin forwarded message: Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 20:43:53 +0100 From: Keith Watson <keith@watson> To: alug <main(a)lists.alug.org.uk> Cc: Syd Hancock <syd(a)toufol.com>, IanBell <ian(a)redtommo.com>, Graham Trott <gt(a)pobox.com> Subject: Re: [ALUG] Coming down to earth At 07:09 on Tue, 6 Jul 2004, Bryce Martin wrote: > Hello, > I would like to extend the discussion about weekend > trials or expositions of various equipment or > software. > I consider myself to be an ordinary modern linux user > that struggles with the most basic problems of > everyday useage. I don't want to list the most common > difficulties that face the 'ordinary (none technical) > user' because I don't know what they might be, but > plugins for the very popular browsers konqueror and > mozilla 1.7 could possibly be dealt with via the alug > mailing list. I don't just mean refering users to a > web site, which could be a good thing, but actually > creating emails that show 'step by step' how to > install a certain plugin or other task. Our top > exponents of linux might enjoy writing these postings. > Documentation relating to linux across the board is > poor, in my opinion. Could we as a user group make a > difference to this problem of documentation by helping > with a (very loosely) structured education program > that is conducted via the alug mailing list? The > mailing list serves the really knowledgable linux > users quite well in a conversational way, but now that > linux is so much more mainstream, it would be nice to > punctuate these savvy conversations with (possibly) > regular(ish) instruction on the basics of linux. We > could focus on the most basic configuration tasks via > our mailing list to help NEW users of linux, and still > enjoy the very stimulating discussions of experienced > users. > I would enjoy reading the unsolicited configurational > instruction of an experienced user that was posted to > the list on more BASIC topics. It could become normal > practice. > It can't hurt, but would take a little effort > admittedly. > Kind regards, > Bryce. > A bit late but Snap! I've been thinking along similar lines for a while now. I must say that with Linux I find that it's not the lack of info. that's a problem but the excess of info. To start with most pieces of software installed usually have a whole chunk of documentation (admittedly it can be patchy, but, IME, it's usually reasonably complete) and then there's the Linux Documentation Project that has tons of stuff and then there's loads of mailing lists like this that can be searched with Google. Often what's needed when you're just getting into something is quick concise answers to some of the basic problems i.e. how do I do a basic install/configure of this? or I installed that and now this is broke how do I fix it? (and some help in finding your way around the terminology) In mailing lists like this it's not always easy to indicate what you have under your belt already so that those who reply can pitch the answer at the right level. Perhaps a better way is for us to help ourselves by using the wiki pages and instead of HOWTOs adding our own HOWIDIDITS? What I was thinking is that whenever one of us, whatever our level of experience with GNU/Linux, tackles and resolves a problem, e.g installing a bit of hardware or configuring/upgrading a piece of software, we could add a wiki page with a short write up and appropriate links to other sources of info. we used. Not as formal or structured as a HOWTO perhaps just a simple log of steps taken and what happened, but I'm sure that over time it would contain useful hits and tips. I believe the wiki already has an area for this so what we need to do is get list members to use it. In this way everyone can usefully contribute. Regards, Keith -------------- See into life. Don't just look at it. - Anne Baxter Regards, Keith -------------- The saddest thing in the world is a person with sight but no vision. - Helen Keller

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 12 Jul '04

12 Jul '04

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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RE: [ALUG] Alug Library!
by Keith Watson 12 Jul '04

12 Jul '04

> From: Kirsten Naylor Sent: 10 July 2004 00:56 > > The library has grown unwieldy now, and too big to haul to > any meetings > really except Sunday afternoon meetings such as at Syleham (short > staggering distance from car boot to table top). (Thanks to everyone > who has donated books lately!) So I draw everyone's attention to > http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?LibraryBooklist which, now I > look at it, > ought to have ISBNs listed and a short description of each > book, to aid > people in making their selections. > > The idea is that those who would like books from the library > place their > requests with me or Adam (quinophex) and we will deliver to the next > meeting, whenever that may be. If you live outside the > Norwich area and > can't attend Norwich meetings, we'd appreciate it if you'd cover the > postage costs for us to post the book to you. > > Books can be returned, more or less at leisure (no time limit on the > loan as such, in practice six months is about the limit) in the same > fashion, or posted, or whatever as long as we get them back :) > > I will endeavour to get descriptions up as soon as possible. How about just linking back to the publishers site or Amazon or whatever? > > /Kirsten Regards, Keith ____________ Do not fear the arising of thoughts - only be concerned lest your awareness of them be tardy. - Zen Saying

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Horde webmail and proxies, any experience anyone?
by Chris Green 12 Jul '04

12 Jul '04

Does anyone here use Horde's webmail and know if there are any issues around using it on, for example, BT Broadband? My daughter is seeing some rather strange symptoms which might be explained by a proxy doing funny things when she looks at her mail using webmail. -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk)

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Meeting report - City Gate, Thursday 8th July
by Kirsten Naylor 12 Jul '04

12 Jul '04

Another successful City Gate meeting! Not as many turned up as said they would, but still new and unseen-for-some-time faces there. Present were: Jonathan (Noodles) Martijn (mak) Adam (quinophex) Paul (paul_c) James (mChicago) Bryce Girlfriend of Bryce (sorry, didn't catch your name! Bryce, can you fill us in?) Kirsten (wildduck) We missed Elisabeth (sunflowerinrain) who was stuck in traffic and Brett (iDunno) who couldn't make it, also MJR (slef) and a couple of others who evidently were thwarted in the final hours. A convivial meeting as usual, made more interesting by the new people and the cool little phone/PDA gadget Martijn showed us. Lots of Linux talk, drinking of beer and munching of crisps and peanuts, frozen-bubble on Paul's laptop, and I am sure many things I missed while I was reading Linux User&Developer magazine or while I was just not paying attention :) Hope everyone will be there again at the next City Gate meeting (Thursday 12 August 8pm) Sadly Adam and I will be in France then, but back as usual in September. /Kirsten

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 12 Jul '04

12 Jul '04

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Problems sending replies to ALUG list
by Ian Douglas 11 Jul '04

11 Jul '04

I am confused. Each time I have tried to send replies to posts on the ALUG list this morning an error box has appeared on my PC saying: ERROR: Sending failed: a SMTP error occurred. Command: DATA Response: 452 Filesystem error - message not accepted The message will stay in the 'outbox' folder until you either fix the problem (e.g. a broken address) or remove the message from the 'outbox' folder. Note other messages will also be blocked by this message as long as it in the 'outbox' folder. The following transport protocol was used: smtp://smtp.ntlworld.com:25 I have therefore resent my reply. However looking at my inbox it does seem though that this error message is wrong and my replies have indeed reached the ALUG list ok. Anyone any idea what is going on? I am creating the messages using kmail 1.3.2 (part of Debian 3.0) and seem to be able to send test messages to my other ISP account ok. Ian.

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Alug Library!
by Kirsten Naylor 10 Jul '04

10 Jul '04

The library has grown unwieldy now, and too big to haul to any meetings really except Sunday afternoon meetings such as at Syleham (short staggering distance from car boot to table top). (Thanks to everyone who has donated books lately!) So I draw everyone's attention to http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?LibraryBooklist which, now I look at it, ought to have ISBNs listed and a short description of each book, to aid people in making their selections. The idea is that those who would like books from the library place their requests with me or Adam (quinophex) and we will deliver to the next meeting, whenever that may be. If you live outside the Norwich area and can't attend Norwich meetings, we'd appreciate it if you'd cover the postage costs for us to post the book to you. Books can be returned, more or less at leisure (no time limit on the loan as such, in practice six months is about the limit) in the same fashion, or posted, or whatever as long as we get them back :) I will endeavour to get descriptions up as soon as possible. /Kirsten

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FF: dive and LinuxUser&Developer 36
by MJ Ray 10 Jul '04

10 Jul '04

I have a copy of the dive book+CD published by Liverpool-based FACT which I will pass on or post to any ALUGger who wants it. ISBN 0-9541604-9-5 contains essays about free software and copyleft culture. The CD contains a dyne:bolic bootable distribution. I'd be happy if you pass it on again when you're done. If unwanted, I offer this to the ALUG library. I also have LinuxUser&Developer issue 36. The unopened CD pack is the one with the Sun desktop and 500 packages. If unwanted, it will be recycled on Friday 23 July. Thanks, -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and not of any group I know http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ for creative copyleft computing "Before we try to work out if he's competent, let's work out if he's conscious." (anon. exam marker)

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New CD drive not accessable
by Ian Douglas 10 Jul '04

10 Jul '04

Hi Folks, I installed Debian 3.0 on my PC ages ago and have been happily using it ever since. However, a few minutes ago, I upgraded my CD drive from a standard CD drive to a CDRW drive and I can now no longer access any CDs. If I try to mount a CD then I get an error message saying it is not a valid block device: giraffe:~# mount /dev/hdd /mnt2 mount: /dev/hdd is not a valid block device If however I scan through the output of dmesg I can see it listed: hdd: ATAPI CD-RW 16/12/40X, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive What do I need to tweak in order to be able to access CDs using this new CD drive? Thanks, Ian.

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RE: [ALUG] dpkg-dist error on installing postgresql
by Jenny Hopkins 09 Jul '04

09 Jul '04

> >Well, this is an interesting question that I have as a debian user: > >stable is still using postgresql 7.2. Current postgresql > version is up to 7.4, however. How can I keep my server > running stable but also keeping a bit more up to date with > versions of things? > >Jen > > > > In the case of PostgreSQL you can just compile it yourself as > it has tools to enable you to upgrade your data stores built in. > > Matt > I've been advised in the past that the trouble with compiling yourself in a debian system is that it breaks the integrity of the package system: do you mean here that you compile it and it kind of stays in sync with the apt system? Someone sent me a site offlist I didn't know existed: www.backports.org (thanks, Sue - tried to reply but it kept bouncing back). Jen ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

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RE: [ALUG] dpkg-dist error on installing postgresql
by Jenny Hopkins 09 Jul '04

09 Jul '04

-----Original Message----- > From: Tim Green [mailto:tim@spodlife.org] > Sent: 30 June 2004 13:18 > > I shudder to think what would have happened if this was my live box > > and not the playpen. > > Thanks, > > Jen > > I shudder to think anyone would think to upgrade from stable > to testing on a live box at all! > > Well, this is an interesting question that I have as a debian user: stable is still using postgresql 7.2. Current postgresql version is up to 7.4, however. How can I keep my server running stable but also keeping a bit more up to date with versions of things? Jen ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

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Thunderbird checking mail in all IMAP folders
by Martijn Koster 09 Jul '04

09 Jul '04

This came up last night... I'm using Thunderbird (0.6 on Linux, 0.7.2 on Windows) against a Courier IMAP server, and use mailfilter server-side to filter email into 70 different folders. By default Thunderbird doesn't check all folders for new messages when you hit "Get Messages". You can right-click a folder, select the Properties menu, and tick "Check this folder for new messages". But obviously that's rather tedious with that many folders. There is no UI to set "Check all folders for new messages" in Account Settings/Server Settings. After some Googling I found a hack: http://texturizer.net/thunderbird/tips.html#beh_downloadstartup http://texturizer.net/thunderbird/edit.html which works as advertised. -- Martijn

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KDE killed
by IanBell 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

I did a silly thing. I run Mandrake 9.2 and have a separate partition for home. On a spare partition I installed Slackware 9.1 and set its home to the above mentioned partition. Then under slack set up a new user with same name/password as the main user in home (hopefully) to access all the settings/data. Trouble is in doing this I seem to have knackered KDE. It stops with a message about the dcop server. Fortunately Gnome still works fine, and seems to pick up the entire KDE desktop icons and menus - that's how I am sending this email. So the question is how to get kde going again, and a corollary, how should I have set up Slackware to be able to access my existing home directory in the first place? Ian

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Re: [ALUG] ALUG and the Empty Lands
by John Seago 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

On Wednesday Steve Purkiss <bnmlist(a)open4.org> wrote: <snip> > or this thursday in Ipswich - > > Club member Leo Borwick's also running the Ipswich A12 club and I'm > going up to his event this Thursday at 8pm in the Curve Bar - this list > seems to be more North than me so if anyone's around then I'd be more > than happy to meet up there... for more info (and a profile with pic > hehe) see http://www.ecademy.com or join up for free on > http://www.open4.org/joinA12club Perhaps here is an opportunity for whoever it was who wanted meetings in Ipswich, (I don't have time to go back through the archives), to get in touch with Steve, with a view to expanding ALUG's activites further South. -- John Seago Linux User #219566 (http://counter.li.org)

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Re: [ALUG] Wires Only Broadband Suggestions
by Nick Heppleston 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

Thanks Laurie, For the benefit of ALUG members can you detail what deals you can provide? I'll contact you off list to discuss my specific requirements. Cheers, Nick On Wed, 2004-07-07 at 14:36, Laurie Brown wrote: > Nick Heppleston wrote: > > > I'll be moving back to Norwich this weekend and one of the first things > > on my to-do list is broadband. > > > > So, I'm looking for recommendations on wires only packages - I'm not > > particularly bothered about static/dynamic IP's although price might be > > a factor in the decision. Who do you recommend/wouldn't want to touch > > with a barge pole? > > We're resellers for Claranet. They aren't the cheapest for domestic, but > their service is top. They also do static IP for a one-off £25 fee, which is > a bargain. See http://www.clara.net (we don't mark-up the prices). > > We'd be happy to do a deal for ALUG members. > > Cheers, Laurie. -- Nick Heppleston 07989 581766 | nickheppleston(a)gmx.co.uk

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