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Re: [ALUG] Software patents
by Tim Green 04 Jul '04

04 Jul '04

On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 03:45:24PM +0100, Nick Daniels wrote: > I thought somebody maybe interested in this:- > "On May 18th, by a thin majority, the European Council of Ministers voted in > favor of throwing out the European Parliament's efforts to keep software > patents out of Europe. [snip] > http://slashdot.org/articles/04/07/02/1318220.shtml?tid=155&tid=185&tid=99 Can anyone explain this? There are too many "outs". The tone of the article suggests this event is a good thing if you do not like software parents. Tim.

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RE: [ALUG] dpkg-dist error on installing postgresql
by Jenny Hopkins 04 Jul '04

04 Jul '04

Keith wrote: > Sounds like apt thinks that postgresql is already installed > at the latest release. You could try; > > 1) doing and uninstall followed by an installl (but I'm a bit > wary of that as uninstall can also clobber other packes you don't want > uninstalled) > > 2) try reconfiguring the package with dpkg --configure > [package name] - check the syntax of that via the man page > > 3) I think there's an apt-get option that will force a > re-install of an existing package, again check the apt-get man page. > > Keith > ____________ > Yes, the full story is that I had postgresql v7.2 installed, and when I upgraded to testing from stable postgresql attempted to upgrade to v7.4. Halfway through the upgrade it failed becuase it couldn't upgrade the data from 7.2 to the latest format. I apt-get removed postgresql and ripped out the existing data directory. Now it keeps giving this error when i try to install, as in your option (1). I get the same error with option (2). Re. option (3) - I've just done and apt-get clean, an apt-get check and tried using the f to force option, but with the same error. Any option (4) suggestions? :-)) I shudder to think what would have happened if this was my live box and not the playpen. Thanks, Jen ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

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Re: Suse 9.1 disappointment
by Robert Frusher 03 Jul '04

03 Jul '04

OK. I understand that all components are relatively the same, but was surprised in the boot time. I did turn off the DHCP detection, but it still seemed to be taking much longer to boot. Does anyone know how big the Suse kernel is? I know the slack 10.0 one I am presently using is around 1.17MB which I reckon is pretty slim. I am thinking that the 2.6 kernel with Suse is overloaded... along with their X. For instance my Aitpek tablet worked on Suse, but I would have to recompile stuff to get it going on Slack. I tried Suse at my Brother in laws uni last year, and thought exactly the same thing... very sluggish... that was an AMD 2100 or something of that calibre. Do SUSe compile KDE for 686 or lower? optimisations... I have 256MB of memory which is fine for Slack, even with Apache,mysql,cups,alsa being run at boot, this adds about 2 secs of boot time for me... Rob

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Meetings, Talks, Demonstrations and Kit
by Brett Parker 03 Jul '04

03 Jul '04

Right, here goes nothing... We've never really had a good result as far as talks/demonstrations run, there's either generally not the turnout, or the interest in the talks, or enough spare time in the world. What I'd like to see, sometime, (and this goes doubly for the lurkers on the list) is some suggestions for talks, what you want to learn about, etc. It'd be good to see more of the hundreds of subscribers to the list turn up to meetings, if only to say hello. Is the problem that the meetings are on the wrong days? or in the wrong places? I'm sure there are many of us willing to travel to other places if there's a meeting held there. Basically, I think what I'm trying to say is this: * We can't do talks without topics * We can't do talks without people interested in the talk (i.e. turning up to said talks) * ALUG is a community, we have no real "leadership", the decisions to do things are made by the members. So, maybe it's time to find out what people want out of the group? Do we want a full from scratch to desktop linux install demonstration? If so, which distribution? Certainly we have quite a few debian developers in the group, maybe we should go right through an install from the beginning to having X running, with KDE/Gnome/XFCE4? Do we want a demonstration on reuse of old kit for small servers, samba, LDAP, HTTP, FTP, etc? How about someone talking on how to give talks, maybe that'd be useful? Maybe demonstrations of what other Free operating systems can do? Do people want to know about specific topics, like 3d, DVB, graphics, DTP, Office applications? Without a starting point we'll never get any talks written. Do we actually want talks, or a quick guide on the website for how things work? should we be using the ALUG wiki more? should there be more technical documentation/recommendations available from the site? Maybe we should start with a set of subjects, perhaps as part of the ALUG wiki, and go from there? Thoughts, suggestions, and anything else to the list. :) Thanks, -- Brett Parker

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Software patents
by Nick Daniels 03 Jul '04

03 Jul '04

I thought somebody maybe interested in this:- "On May 18th, by a thin majority, the European Council of Ministers voted in favor of throwing out the European Parliament's efforts to keep software patents out of Europe. According to an FFII press release, the Dutch Parliament yesterday voted to change its Minister's vote, which was in favor, to an abstension. This is an unprecidented move and a great coup for those fighting against software patents, never before has a country reversed a vote in this manner. While this is not sufficient to reverse the decision of the Council of Ministers, it does pave the way for other countries, many of which were pressured into an affirmative vote, to do the same. Now is the time for citizens of the EU to put pressure on their national governments to follow the Dutch lead. " http://slashdot.org/articles/04/07/02/1318220.shtml?tid=155&tid=185&tid=99 Regards Nick Daniels

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RE: [ALUG] EASF, Ipswich Tomorrow
by Elisabeth 03 Jul '04

03 Jul '04

MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> wrote: > > It could be anything from a meeting of civil society groups to >the local branch of fruitcakes anonymous. Knowing several of the organisers and attendees from various backgrounds, I'd say it's all of the above. Eli (sunflowerinrain)

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Anarchist Bookfair report / Linux propaganda
by Joe Button 03 Jul '04

03 Jul '04

Hi. Sorry for delay in sending this, I've been away. To be honest I'm only getting around to it now in response to MJ Ray's welcome prompting off the list (cheers MJ). I took some Alug / Linux stuff to the Anarchist Bookfair on June 12th. I was helping out on a stall that was already shared between two other organisations, so the Linux bit was constrained to a small corner of a small desk. I brought a box of Knoppix CDs and a couple of leaflets. I had a couple of chats about Linuxy things but most people seemed more interested in the struggles of indigenous West Papuans and the like (probably quite rightly). Anyway, I gave away about 15 CDs and a few dozen leaflets so it was certainly worth doing, especially as I was going to be there anyway. You can see the stuff I distributed at http://joebutton.co.uk/alug/ if you're interested - there's the Knoppix wallets, an Alug leaflet and an intro to Gnu/Linux aimed at non-geeks. I did the latter two very late the night before the bookfair, hence the slight incoherence. Constructive criticism is welcome of course, and anyone's welcome to do whatever they want with the stuff at the above url. I should probably work out what the appropriate licence would be but it's gone midnight and I have to be up early tomorrow so consider them in the public domain. Joe x ----- Would anyone like any Zapatista coffee? Just got 25 packets to sell @£2.50 each. http://www.wombles.org.uk/zap/zap.php. Coming soon: Pesticide-free fair-trade Palestinian Olive oil from the first pressing, http://www.zaytoun.co.uk. On Monday 28 Jun 2004 18:16, you wrote: > On 2004-06-25 21:45:39 +0100 Joe Button <alug(a)joebutton.co.uk> wrote: > > Syd and I did a bunch of Knoppix CDs for the Anarchist bookfair the > > other > > How did that go? No-one's told the list anything yet, have they?

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EASF, Ipswich Tomorrow
by MJ Ray 03 Jul '04

03 Jul '04

Anyone going to be near Ipswich tomorrow? I'm pondering a visit to http://www.easf.org.uk/ -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and not of any group I know

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DemosWanted - 8. Upgrading to and using kernel 2.6 in Debian
by kpwatson＠pop3.ukfsn.org 02 Jul '04

02 Jul '04

I use Debian and have done this so I'd be happy to talk about how easy/dificult it was and the kludges I had to do to get it working. But I'm sure there's others on the list who have also. Can we have a quick show of hands; 1) who else would be interested in a talk on this subject? 2) who else has done this and would be willing to participate in leading a disscussion on it? Keith

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Slackware vs Mandrake boot times
by IanBell 02 Jul '04

02 Jul '04

There has been some recent discussion about how much faster Slackware seems to boot than other 'mainstream' distros. So I have installed Slack 9.1 alongside my current Mandrake 9.2 and compared boot times. This is on a Dell 2650 laptop with 384M RAM. Boot to Login: Slackware 45 secs Mandrake 52 secs Note Mandrake has more services running e.g. CUPS and kudzu Login to GUI up: Slackware 25 secs Mandrake 40 secs The main difference here is that Mandrake runs the NVidia driver which adds about 10 seconds. Overall I conclude there is very little difference between them. If you subtract the 10 secs for NVidia from the Mandrake figures then the totals are: Slackware 70 secs Mandrake 80 secs Ian

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Spare/Loan Kit
by kpwatson＠pop3.ukfsn.org 01 Jul '04

01 Jul '04

Can I ask anyone who has kit they are willing to loan for the purposes of demos etc. to add it to the "Kit Available" section of the "DemosOfferedDemosWanted" wiki page? <http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?DemosOfferedDemosWanted> (by kit i'd also include cables, multiway mains adaptoers, extension leads, etc) That way anyone who wants to organise something can see what's available. At the moment anything loaned for a demo is implicitly at your own risk but should the group imdemnify people loaning kit in some way? and if so how? (short term insurance?) Also, in addition to H/W, does anyone have any whiteboards, flipcharts, pens, projects, etc. we can borrow for the purpose of running a demo? if so please add them to the list. Cheers :o) Keith

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Suse 9.1 disappointment
by Robert Frusher 01 Jul '04

01 Jul '04

Not really a question, but a little insight. I am an avid Slackware Linux user, but on seeing Suse 9.1 available for download I thought I would give it a go. The install is flawless, with its auto-configuration, although I see nothing wrong with Slackwares curses install. A little while later it was installed. I couldnt get grub boot loader to play nicely with XP so it went in the MBR. I reboot and this is the disappointment... it is REALLY slow, granted nice, but nothing really new. I have a pretty good spec machine and Slack flies compared with Suse. DMA was on but it just seemed to take forever to boot, and sluggish when it gets there. Do you reckon it was the new kernel? I tried 2.6 with Slack and it seemed even faster. SO on seeing 10.0 Slackware out I got rid of Suse, and am back at home. Rob

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Newsforge: gLabels: Ready for prime time
by kpwatson＠pop3.ukfsn.org 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

gets a good write up*, any one here used it recently? Particulalry interested in how well it works with CD labels. Keith * http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/06/15/1833205 gLabels, a GNOME program that makes and prints all sorts of labels and business cards, seems to be capable of handling just about any task you throw at it. It's at release 1.93.3, a developer release on the way to a stable 2.0 version, but it's in very good shape.

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RE: [ALUG] dpkg-dist error on installing postgresql
by Jenny Hopkins 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

> Any option (4) suggestions? :-)) Someone suggested I try: dpkg --purge postgresql apt-get install postgresql and this worked. Thanks, all. Won't try this one with the live db in a hurry. Jen ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

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dpkg-dist error on installing postgresql
by Jenny Hopkins 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

Hi, I'm having problems installing postgresql when it gets to the post-installation script, output is below. ducati:/etc/init.d# apt-get install postgresql Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done postgresql is already the newest version. 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 20 not upgraded. 1 not fully installed or removed. Need to get 0B of archives. After unpacking 0B of additional disk space will be used. Setting up postgresql (7.4.2-4) ... mv: cannot stat `/etc/init.d/postgresql.dpkg-dist': No such file or directory dpkg: error processing postgresql (--configure): subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1 Errors were encountered while processing: postgresql E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) Does anyone know what could be going on here? Thanks, Jen ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

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UEA Meeting on 27th June.
by Jonathan McDowell 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

Not a huge turnout - only 1 person who doesn't normally come to the 2nd Thursday Norwich meets. We wondered if this might be due to it being outside UEA term time, but then there's not usually a large turnout of UEA undergrads at any time, is there? Attendees were: Eli (who kindly organised it), James + Kaz, Ashley, Brett, Adam, Kirsten, me. Discussion topics included MiniITX boards and rackmounts, interrupts on highly pipelined CPUs, change giving algorithms for soft drinks machines, the annoyance factor of people who blindly suggest Cisco for all networking bits, networking problems we have known, Nethack vs Angband, DVB (ie Freeview and the like) and Brett's car. There were a couple of laptops present (that didn't even get turned on), but no other kit - I presume all the people who've been wanting kit meets in Norwich where unable to make it? Those present thought that a nice beer garden would have made a more suitable venue given the lack of kit, at least until it started raining. As UEA term time is over it was thought that we should take the Norwich Internet Cafe up on their very kind offer of a venue for the next Sunday meet. We don't seem to have any more meets organised for the rest of the year though, except the regular social meets? J. -- Game over, boys! This .sig brought to you by the letter O and the number 8 Product of the Republic of HuggieTag

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Linux Laptop
by Wayne Stallwood 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

I don't usually post stuff I'm trying to sell to the list, but I remember a few conversations a while ago regarding cheap Linux Laptops I'm selling my dedicated Linux laptop as VMware on my main one does 99.9% of what I need. It's a Dell Latitude C800 currently running SuSE 9.1 with almost everything working, the modem and suspend/resume have issues but only since moving to a 2.6 kernel. Power management, 3D, thermal control and the CPU Throttle (will go down to 700MHZ when under a light load if on batteries) all tested. Feels pretty snappy and comfortable on KDE, the 1400x1024 screen helps, would be even better with a boost to the ram. It's an 850Mhz PIII with 256MB Ram (a slot is free to add more) ATI M4 with 16MB of Dedicated video memory (this is interchangeable with other ATI and Nvidia daughterboards, ones from the Inspiron 8000 also fit) 10GB HDD (cheap to fit a larger one) CDROM and Floppy Fitted with the 1400x1024 display, no dead pixels and nice and bright. Has all the usual ports. USB, Firewire, serial, parallel, VGA, PS2, 100baseT Ethernet, Modem (not working in Linux, but I haven't tried very hard, google says it's possible) and two PCMCIA slots. Comes with the Dell case, Charger and Modem lead, Windows 2000 OEM license (no media) CD-R with the Dell drivers on, CD-R with SuSE 9.1 personal. Good condition overall, couple of small marks here and there. Battery life is quite poor, replacement is available from Dell for £75 plus VAT. £300 As I say I normally don't post thing like this, so sorry if it causes anyone offence.

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Re: Meetings, Talks, Demonstrations and Kit
by Elisabeth 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

>From: Kirsten Naylor <wildduck(a)wildduck.org.uk> > >I can just about manage apt-get update and apt-get upgrade but need my >hand held quite a bit. So I want to know how to manage my debian >installation so that if quinophex vanished I would not be stuck. Also >knowing how to build kernels would be fun. AOL (except the bit about quinophex). Plus I'd be interested in audio-editing demos. I might be able to persuade two of the local musogeeks to demo what they've set up. Eli(sabeth)

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Debugging Gnome Problems
by Keith Watson 29 Jun '04

29 Jun '04

After running apt-get update on my Debian install last night (actually I used apt-zip but it's the same thing) I now find that gnome 2.4 won't start (it was working fine before). dmesg (or alt-f9) doesn't seem to show anything untoward except for some gconfd messages saying gnome is shutting down. Does anyone know if/where gnome keeps its own run logs so I can get a clue why it's throwing a wobbler? I tried the www.gnome.org site but it's definitely an information overload situation when looking for clues to this. Google wasn't much help either. Regards, Keith ____________ Live life as life lives itself. Zen Proverb

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RE: [ALUG] Norwich meeting Sunday 27 June
by Keith Watson 29 Jun '04

29 Jun '04

I'm going to try and get along to this one. If it's of interest I have a copy of Knoppix 3.4 (4-May-04 version) that I will bring along if anyone wants a copy. It's the one with the 2.6 kernel (there's also a 17-May-04 version but I haven't got round to downloading that yet). If anyone's bringing along a working CD burner you can run off a copy (I'll bring some blank CDs as well). I'm also in the process of downloading a copy of the Vidalinux Desktop OS beta <http://gentoo.vidalinux.com/?q=node/view/68> as we speak and will bring that along also (I know there's some gentoo fans out there :o) ). Also I still have some Linux PC badges left; 1 x Tux <http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/products/trivia/#pid4235>, 4 x powered by Linux <http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/products/trivia/#pid4236> and 8 x Debian <http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/products/trivia/#pid4238> all at 50p (plus an optional donation to AFFS) See you there? Regards, Keith ____________ CREDITOR, n. One of a tribe of savages dwelling beyond the Financial Straits and dreaded for their desolating incursions. - Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary > -----Original Message----- > From: main-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk > [mailto:main-admin@lists.alug.org.uk]On Behalf Of Elisabeth > Sent: 20 June 2004 11:43 > To: main(a)lists.alug.org.uk > Subject: [ALUG] Norwich meeting Sunday 27 June > > > ALUG meeting on Sunday 27 June 2004, 14:00 > Common Room, Nelson Court, UEA > > Campus map is at http://www.uea.ac.uk/campus_2004.pdf > > There is a carpark charge of £1, or you could park outside > the campus, or get > a lift from me. > > > > _______________________________________________ > main(a)lists.alug.org.uk > http://www.alug.org.uk/ > http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main > Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above! >

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Logo idea
by MJ Ray 29 Jun '04

29 Jun '04

As you may know, the original logo artwork went missing a while ago and we've been using a hasty mockup since. Keith has produced some redesigns which have been used on stickers etc. I've just had an idea for a cool logo: Tux, wearing armour, riding an armoured GNU, carrying a pennant that says GNU/Linux. Sort of like http://thetvroom.com/p-itv-1-anglia-past-a.shtml Can anyone produce this? -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/

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RE: [ALUG] Meetings, Talks, Demonstrations and Kit
by David Reynolds 29 Jun '04

29 Jun '04

Hi, >Do we want a full from scratch to desktop linux install demonstration? >If so, which distribution? Certainly we have quite a few debian >developers in the group, maybe we should go right through an install >from the beginning to having X running, with KDE/Gnome/XFCE4? Do we >want a demonstration on reuse of old kit for small servers, samba, >LDAP, HTTP, FTP, etc? How about someone talking on how to give talks, >maybe that'd be useful? Maybe demonstrations of what other Free >operating systems can do? One of the more complex distros installed from scratch to desktop would be interesting - Debian, Gentoo even FreeBSD. >Do people want to know about specific topics, like 3d, DVB, graphics, >DTP, Office applications? Without a starting point we'll never get >any talks written. As someone else said somewhere, if someone could give some useful pointers on howto get started on Blender, that would be marvellous! >Do we actually want talks, or a quick guide on the website for how >things work? should we be using the ALUG wiki more? should there be >more technical documentation/recommendations available from the site? All of these sound good. Talks backed up with the salient points on the website would seem like a good way to go - to give people somewhere to go for reference after the talk. Cheers David -- David Reynolds david(a)reynoldsfamily.org.uk

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Syleham Meeting August 22nd 2004
by John Woodard 29 Jun '04

29 Jun '04

After discussions last night on irc and this list I can confirm that the next meeting at Syleham has been booked and confirmed for Sunday 22nd August 2:00pm onwards. Syleham is an ideal venue for bringing kit that needs fixing or for demos to be held. Questions, requests or suggestions to this list and we will see if we can accommodate. There were some suggestions regarding a barbeque if you want that or anything else to happen make comments here. Cheers, BJ

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RE: [ALUG] Meetings, Talks, Demonstrations and Kit
by Jenny Hopkins 29 Jun '04

29 Jun '04

> So, maybe it's time to find out what people want out of the group? > Well, for me, when i joined ALUG I knew absolutely nothing about linux. I was extremely grateful for any help, practical or verbal, at meetings. I enjoyed meeting people. I always took broken kit that needed a kernel upgrade or the modem mending or something. I can imagine other newcomers to the linux world would benefit from the same. It's lack of time that prevents me going to meetings nowadays...weekends fly by soooooo quickly. When i do turn up to them, though, I personally prefer a less organised kind of meeting, where one wanders around and chats or tinkers with a broken thing or whatever. Jen ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

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Suse disappointment...
by Robert Frusher 28 Jun '04

28 Jun '04

Not really a question, but a little insight. I am an avid Slackware Linux user, but on seeing Suse 9.1 available for download I thought I would give it a go. The install is flawless, with its auto-configuration, although I see nothing wrong with Slackwares curses install. A little while later it was installed. I couldnt get grub boot loader to play nicely with XP so it went in the MBR. I reboot and this is the disappointment... it is REALLY slow, granted nice, but nothing really new. I have a pretty good spec machine and Slack flies compared with Suse. DMA was on but it just seemed to take forever to boot, and sluggish when it gets there. Do you reckon it was the new kernel? I tried 2.6 with Slack and it seemed even faster. SO on seeing 10.0 Slackware out I got rid of Suse, and am back at home. Rob

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