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Reminder: Norwich City Gate meeting this Thursday night.
by Jonathan McDowell 07 Jun '04

07 Jun '04

As per usual, this Thursday (10th June) we'll be congregating in the City Gate from around 8pm. Full details can be found at: http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2004/all-NorThu.html J. -- jid: noodles(a)jabber.earth.li Eat a prune. Start a movement.

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 07 Jun '04

07 Jun '04

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Gentoo is treating me better now
by Charles Garcia-Tobin 04 Jun '04

04 Jun '04

Hiyer everybody Gentoo is beginning to look great on my cube, I managed to download all the required sources, I have X with nvidia drivers working, nforce drivers working too. I do have a slight problem with disks though. When I boot the machine dma is turned off, and attempts to turn it back on are dissallowed thus: hdparm -d 1 /dev/hda /dev/hda: setting using_dma to 1 (on) HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Operation not permitted using_dma = 0 (off) Any ideas? is my IDE driver not quite right? Incidentally anybody know what I have to emerger to get lspci? Cheers for the help Charles

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Fwd: Re: Software patents
by Joe Button 03 Jun '04

03 Jun '04

Hi I thought I'd forward a copy of the email I just sent the Eastern MEPs to the list - I was in both a hurry and a blind rage when I wrote it so it's probably not me at my most coherent. Please let me know if there's anything obviously wrong with it. While I'm here, are people aware of this: http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/rms-cam020325/index.en.html Whatever you think of rms (personally I think he's a god and will defend his honour with my life) this is a great article about patents. Joe x ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: Software patents Date: Wednesday 02 Jun 2004 14:18 From: Joe Button <joe(a)joebutton.co.uk> To: rhowitt(a)europarl.eu.int Hello again. I'd just like to follow up my email with the information that Network Associates (a large american company) has just been granted a patent on various spam (junk email) filtering techniques in the US. By way of exploring the wisdom of software patents I would like to point out some of the implications of this: * One of the techniques the patent covers is 'Bayesian filtering'. The patent was applied for in December 2002. A very cursory search enabled me to find public discussion of Bayesian spam filtering from February 2002, which referenced material on the topic from dating 1999. * Another technique covered by the patent is apparently 'MD5 paragraph hashing', which simply means the creation of a shorter 'digital ID' code for a paragraph of text. I'm not a spam filtering expert, but as a reasonably capable programmer it seems to me that that is a blindingly obvious thing to do if you're trying to identify spam. * If I write a program that uses either the first established and public technique or the second extremely obvious one, I can be sued. In fact if I'd written one before the patent was granted or applied for I could still be sued. My options would be to get out of the spam-filtering business, to pay Network Associates for the right to use 'their' technology, or to launch a separate case to try to get the patent invalidated, which would be too costly and difficult for virtually any small business. * As an email user, I will be denied the use of free spam filtering software such as the popular 'spamassassin' as the distributors will not be able to license the technology. * Due to the decrease in competition that will be caused by this patent, spam filtering will be generally less efficient than it could be. The world will be a better place for spammers and Network Associates, and a worse place for the rest of us. According to the European Commission spam cost European businesses around two-and-a-quarter-billion euros in 2003 * It's also worth noting that many other spam filtering techniques are patented, some of them under patents that are so broad that they are simply widely ignored on the assumption they won't stand up to legal challenges. Contrary the UK rep's statement of support for de-revised text, permitting software patents will _not_ lead to a simplified legal situation, they will simply create a minefield for software developers and businesses. I hope this helps to clarify some of the implications of the impending legislative changes. Regards, Joe Button

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Re: [ALUG] Fwd: Re: Software patents
by Joe Button 02 Jun '04

02 Jun '04

On Wednesday 02 Jun 2004 17:22, IanBell wrote: > On Wednesday 02 Jun 2004 2:29 pm, Joe Button wrote: > > Hi > > > > I thought I'd forward a copy of the email I just sent the Eastern MEPs to > > the list - I was in both a hurry and a blind rage when I wrote it so it's > > probably not me at my most coherent. Please let me know if there's > > anything obviously wrong with it. > > Seems coherent enough to me but it has one flaw. What you are complaining > about, it seems to me, is the granting of an invalid patent because of > provable prior art. This situation has always been a possibility with > patents and is in no way unique to software. I did refer to prior art, but I thought I managed to winge about various other things as well, eg. the patenting of the blindingly obvious and the lack of remedy when patents are of dubious validity. Maybe I could have talked about the ways that software is a special case, but you there's only so much you can cram into an MEP's skull in one go. Really what I was trying to convey was that permitting patents on software created a restrictive and uncertain environment for businesses, in the hope of undermining the pro-unamended text lobby's position that it will increase clarity. Thanks for describing me as 'coherent' - I think that's probably the nicest thing anyone's ever said about me. Joe x

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Gentoo is running! but need to setup X
by Charles Garcia-Tobin 02 Jun '04

02 Jun '04

Hi there Gentoo is up and running, I have networking and everything. Once I'd mananged to download all the packages I needed it all wen't quite smoothly. I've done emerge --usepkg kde and similarly for gnome ( I can't decide!) but it did not setup X. It built it but there is no XF86Config. So is there a setup script like SaX2 on Suse that I can get things going? Another question is what I do to download MSFonts? Help appretiated Charles

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Re:
by John Seago 01 Jun '04

01 Jun '04

On Tuesday 01 June 2004 Steve Purkiss <steve(a)open4.org> wrote: > > I have had a real problem with understanding the voting on software > > patents and things, just completely unable to comprehend anything to > > do with it, until I read this open letter which I personally found > > very helpful, at least I know how to vote usefully now! > > > > http://www.linux.org.uk/open.l.html > > > > /Kirsten > > Me too - thanks for the link - kinda summarises well what I've found out > so far, however on the wider scale of things I personally would prefer > voting Libdems who weren't mentioned there but I understand they are > also more receptive to our 'cause'. > > Now I'm even more confused... Perhaps Mark will be able to let you have the voting results of the Lib-Dems on this matter in the European Parliament, I seem to remember something being mentioned about their voting record on this matter at Sunday's meeting. In the meantime perhaps you, (and every body else could send your candidates this: ___________________ I would be grateful if you could also reply to the following questions. Do you believe that current copyright enforcement measures are sufficient? Would you vote to allow technological measures that prevent duplication of copyright material for reporting, research and private study? Would you vote for future harmonsiations of European copyright laws to take a high level of protection as their basis? Do you believe that protection of copyright is more important than protection of competition? These questions concern the forthcoming second reading of the directive on patentability of computer-implemented inventions. Will you vote for freedom of publication (against patent program claims)? Will you vote for exclusion of data processing from a 'field of technology', as voted in Article 3a on 24 September? Will you vote for a definition of 'technical' by reference to forces of nature? Will you vote for rejection of the directive if it does not include all of the above freedoms, exclusion and definition? ______________________________________ -- John Seago Linux User #219566 (http://counter.li.org)

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Further to the discussion of software patents and the European parliamentary elections
by Kirsten Naylor 01 Jun '04

01 Jun '04

Hi all, I have had a real problem with understanding the voting on software patents and things, just completely unable to comprehend anything to do with it, until I read this open letter which I personally found very helpful, at least I know how to vote usefully now! http://www.linux.org.uk/open.l.html /Kirsten

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Odd bash error
by Chris Green 01 Jun '04

01 Jun '04

When I get an error message back from bash on this system it's prefixed by '-u', e.g. :- areti$ g -ubash: g: command not found It's not a disaster but it would be nice to fix it, any ideas anyone? I don't think it's a terminal type misconfiguration as the same type is working OK on other systems and I've also tried changing from rxvt to xterm which had no effect. Everything else seems fine. -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk)

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New Member
by Ian P. Christian 31 May '04

31 May '04

Good morning all. I have been living in Ipswich for 2 weeks now, and I thought I should join the local LUG, so here I am! I'm currently working for an ISP in Ipswich. My website about sums up what I konw, and what I do. http://www.pookey.co.uk. Hope everyone enjoys the long weekend :) Kind Regards, Ian P. Christian

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Software Patents ...again!
by John Seago 31 May '04

31 May '04

At yesterday's meeting at Syleham, Mark gave us an update on the battle against software patents. He also gave us a list of questions that need to be put to all candidates for European Elections. The questions can be found here: http://mjr.towers.org.uk/proj/eurovote/#questions (you may have to scroll down to find them). Time is getting very short, the election is on the 10th June, and Mark needs the information well before then. All ALUGer's should be lobbying their candidates, I'm telling you this as Mark is far too polite to nag at you, but I'm not! -- John Seago Linux User #219566 (http://counter.li.org)

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 31 May '04

31 May '04

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Evening meetings in Norwich Internet Cafe?
by MJ Ray 29 May '04

29 May '04

In reply to the recent announce message, Lewis Allen offered the Norwich Internet Cafe as a venue for evening meetings. He's also happy to announce and promote them. What do you think? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 2004-05-28 10:47:15 +0100 From: Lewis Allen <lewis(a)norwichinternet.com> Subject: Norwich Internet Cafe If you would like a venue for monthly ALUG evening meetings perhaps you would like to meet in our Internet Cafe in Norwich Market? A central Norwich location with 20 broadband screens, wireless access and CD writer which your members would be welcome to use for free (yes, free). We would only charge for any printing, blank disks, drinks etc. See www.norwichinternet.com for more about us. Why would we do this? I am interested in Linux and will be starting to learn PHP and MySQL soon and would like to do my bit to promote it's use in Norwich. Let me know if this interests you. Regards Lewis Allen Norwich Internet Cafe www.norwichinternet.com -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ for creative copyleft computing Help hack the EuroParl! http://mjr.towers.org.uk/proj/eurovote/

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Software Patents
by John Seago 29 May '04

29 May '04

I have had this reply from the English Democrats: "With regards to your specific question about English Democrats Party policy on Sofware Patents in Europe - then I must confess that our maniefesto does not go into this level of detail. What is the particular issue here ?" -- John Seago Linux User #219566 (http://counter.li.org)

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Re: Boot partitions
by John Seago 29 May '04

29 May '04

The version I used was Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 r0 Official i386 binary, I've had them some time, they came from the Linux Emporium, (when it was run by John Winter). Having got it running it just gave me a graphical log in and would only let me log-in as user, the only way I could get to root to reboot was to use a terminal from Gnome and su. Having got to there all I could do was reboot I tried <ls> nothing! Gnome was all that was available as KDE would only get as far as the second of its icons and then revert to the grey screen with the mouse pointer/cursor. I have no doubt whatsoever that all this was incompetence on my part, I'll bring a note book on Sunday for advice. I've also come up with a puzzling phenomena with the boot partition. -- John Seago Linux User #219566 (http://counter.li.org)

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Business Networking....
by Steve Purkiss 28 May '04

28 May '04

Off-topic but thought some of you may be interested - one of my other hats is running the A12 Club on www.ecademy.com - trying to bring a bit of the networking age to the countryside... so in case any of you are, please come along to our next meeting: The A12 Club is proud to present an evening of Tapas and Andrew Widgery featuring a splendid feast plus a talk on 'How Ecademy is working for so many and how you can make it work for you' by Andrew Widgery, National Development Director of Ecademy at D-Tapas, Chelmsford, Thursday 10th June at from 6pm Cost of the meal is £14.50 (excl. drinks of course) PLEASE NOTE NO-SHOWS WILL STILL HAVE TO PAY SO PLEASE ONLY REGISTER IF YOU ARE COMING We need 20 people for this to happen, please show your support (max. 42). There were 35 at Thomas Power's talk in Ipswich last year, so let's beat that! Register here: http://www.ecademy.com/module.php?mod=meeting&mid=5336 Look forward to meeting you all there, Steve Purkiss A12 Club -- Steve Purkiss Open for Organisations supporting open source software www.open4.org

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Slow Going For Linux In Iraq
by Craig 28 May '04

28 May '04

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,63638,00.html Thought I'll drop this article in ALUG to speed up today ;) C

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Re: Boot Partitions
by John Seago 28 May '04

28 May '04

I have tried a seperate experiment with the boot partitions which as far as I can tell has seemed to work. The installation of Debian however was an entirely different matter. Being armed with "Learning Debian GNU/Linux" published in 1999 was of dubious value. The installer presented me with a plethora of questions which I didn't understand, let alone know the answers to, still blundered on and succeded in getting a poor broken thing which it will be kinder to re-format. One problem being that my hardware seems to be too new for the version of X, perhaps I could have got round that but I sem to have borken it so that it won't let me log in as root on a console. Another try is in order, as I don't know what I did wrong I'll just have to blunder through until I get one I can mend after installation. -- John Seago Linux User #219566 (http://counter.li.org)

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Temporary goodbye
by Syd Hancock 28 May '04

28 May '04

To all ALUGers: Unfortunately various events and commitments mean that I will be curtailing some of my extra activities for a while. These will have to include the amount of time I spend being involved with mailing lists etc and going to meetings of various types including ALUG. I hope that the evening meetings will continue regularly and that the meeting planned for the end of June at UEA is also very successful. Note that MJR will give a talk. More details on the website. Maybe one of the Norwich regulars could volunteer to announce the monthly meetings to the lists. I will probably not be reading the list for some time so if there are any comments that you want to be sure that I see, please direct them to my email address. Best wishes to all and many thanks for all the advice and support over the past three years. Hopefully I have contributed something useful in return. Syd

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[Alug Announce]Meetings 30 May, 10 June, Goodbye Syd, Help!
by MJ Ray 27 May '04

27 May '04

ALUG Announce Please send announcements to Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce ----- The next Sunday meeting is in Syleham on 30 May from about 2pm. There will be a talk about the euro-elections helping or harming ALUG. Venue and meeting details: http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2004/05-30Sun.html The next 'second thursday' evening meeting in Norwich will be held on Thursday, the 10th of June at the City Gate, Dereham Road, from about 8pm. Venue and meeting details: http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2004/all-NorThu.html Syd Hancock is taking a break, so we need someone else to co-ordinate Norwich meetings, remembering to announce and publicise them. Read Syd's goodbye at http://lists.alug.org.uk/main/2004-May/018838.html -- Thanks for all your work over the last few years, Syd! -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ for creative copyleft computing Help hack the EuroParl! http://mjr.towers.org.uk/proj/eurovote/ ----- Send discussion replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk (Reply-To set) Unsub, change settings via http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce

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Early reminder: Norwich evening meeting on 10th June
by Syd Hancock 27 May '04

27 May '04

The next 'second thursday' evening meeting in Norwich will be held this Thursday, the 10th of June at the City Gate, Derham Road, from about 8pm. Full details are on the ALUG website: Venue and meeting details: http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2004/all-NorThu.html Venue: full address, photo, link to map etc here: http://www.norwichpubs.info/norwichpubs/pubpages/citygate.htm Syd

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New
by Sue Green 27 May '04

27 May '04

Hi Just dropping a hello in here. My name is Sue and I'm trying to convert from windows to Linux (why does it sound like AA meeting when you start with my name is ....) Anyway, have installed Cygwin on an NT machine for SSH fun and games and looking to replace the current server type unit here with a Linux one in the next round of upgrades. I'm officially IT manager of a small (um, two people including me) company, learning as I go. Anyhoos, I work in Ipswich, live in Kesgrave.. Will be lurking about reading your comments and might chip in with a few dumb questions here and there. Sue www.datadesign.co.uk www.textravaganza.com

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Software Patents
by John Seago 27 May '04

27 May '04

I have recieved this from the Green Party, which I find rather strange, I'd prefer everything in writing. any advice? Margaret Wright has offered to speak to you by 'phone - best probably to email her your tel no. From: Stephen Lawrence, 8 Supanee Court, French's Road, Cambridge, England, CB4 3LB. Tel/Fax +44 1223 564373 -- John Seago Linux User #219566 (http://counter.li.org)

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Boot partitions
by John Seago 27 May '04

27 May '04

later today I am planning to attempt, after years of using Slackware, an installation of Debian. I have two questions: a) I have the kernel for my Slackware in its own boot partition, as this suits my hardware I intend to use it for the Debian. Can I take it that the proceedure for using the same boot partition for two OS's is to delete the boot file from the second and write the boot partition into /etc/fstab and then reboot? b) I have the seven disks for Debian 3.0 r0, can I take it that I only need to buy the update disk for the latest version to upgrade to the latest stable version? -- John Seago Linux User #219566 (http://counter.li.org)

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Re: main digest, Vol 3 #164 - 9 msgs
by John Seago 26 May '04

26 May '04

On Wednesday Syd Hancock <syd(a)toufol.com> wrote: > I thought it might be worth replying to point out that the wishes of > the elected representatives are being thrown aside and if they wish > to prevent s/w patents they will need to vote against them when the > proposals come before the European Parliament again later this > year. As far as I was aware that was the intention, was it not? (See my initial post of Sunday).: > Just send this: > <What is the XXXXX party's policy on Software patents within europe?> > to the Conservatives, Labour, Liberal Democrats, BNP, Greens, English > Democrats and the Indepedents. It serves to make them think, and raises > the matter as an issue in this election. You can then follow it up with > whatever Mark has later -- John Seago Linux User #219566 (http://counter.li.org)

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