- main - earth.li

Feroda
by Peter Onion 06 Mar '04

06 Mar '04

Are there any Fedora Core 1 or core 2 users here ? I've put Core 1 on my little black box, and I'm downloading core 2 iso's at the moment (for a few hours more as well). Peter

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there's no place 127.0.0.1!
by Richard Bensley 06 Mar '04

06 Mar '04

Hey all, I would just like to say thanks for all the great support and responses I got a while back when I first joined you guys. Thanks especially to Wayne Stallwood for sending me a copy of Gentoo, which indcued much stress, but I kept going. I ahve finally found a place to truly call 127.0.0.1, in the form of "No S**t Knoppix". Thanks again, and I hope to meet some of you at the next Norwich meeting. Richard.

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Announce digest, Vol 3 #5 - 1 msg
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 06 Mar '04

06 Mar '04

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. Norwich evening meeting: 11th March 2004 (Syd Hancock) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Syd Hancock <syd(a)toufol.com> To: alug <main(a)lists.alug.org.uk> Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:30:34 +0000 Cc: announce <announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk> Subject: [Alug Announce]Norwich evening meeting: 11th March 2004 The monthly Norwich 'second thursday' evening social meet will take=20 place next week, 11th March from 8 pm in the 'City Gate' pub,=20 Dereham Road.=20 =46ull address, photo, link to map etc here: http://www.norwichpubs.info/norwichpubs/pubpages/citygate.htm If you have not attended one of these meets before, they are=20 informal and unstructured and general chat covers many topics as=20 well as the obvious linux-related stuff. There may or may not be a=20 penguin on the table :-) =3D=3D=3D directions etc =3D=3D=3D The City Gate pub is just off the inner ring road at the junction of=20 Grapes Hill and Barn Road. Dereham Road is the A1074 - take the Costessey junction on the A47=20 if coming from west of Norwich. Otherwise, when going clockwise around the inner ring road, Dereham=20 road is the left turn at the traffic lights at the bottom of Grapes=20 Hill (but see parking info below). There is a very large Cane Furniture shop on the corner and this is=20 probably the best landmark from either direction. The pub, which=20 has a large glass frontage (see link to picture above), is next to=20 the cane furniture shop. There is ample parking nearby, including possible free parking on=20 the forecourt of a wine warehouse next to the pub or on side roads=20 off Dereham Road.=20 There is also Pay-and-Display parking ( =A31.40 for the evening) on=20 the other side of the ring road off St Swithin's road. Coming down=20 Grapes Hill turn right at the lights (St Benedict's Street) and=20 then left into the entrance to the car park which is behind=20 Toys-R-Us. Syd --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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usb flash drive
by Jenny Hopkins 05 Mar '04

05 Mar '04

Hi, has anyone had any luck with the little flash usb drives and linux? I'm thinking of getting one to make carrying work from here to home and back easier. Thanks, Jen ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

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kernel 2.6
by bjsamuels＠beenthere-donethat.org.uk 05 Mar '04

05 Mar '04

I normally compile my own kernels but I've not had so much trouble as I'm having with 2.6.2 and 2.6.0 before it. I'm running Debian Sarge (Testing). When starting to boot I see 'bios data check successful' then there is a pause of two minutes before the boot continues. In the log I see 'No module symbols loaded - kernel modules not enabled'. In my config I have: # Loadable module support # CONFIG_MODULES=y CONFIG_MODULE_UNLOAD=y # CONFIG_MODULE_FORCE_UNLOAD is not set CONFIG_OBSOLETE_MODPARM=y CONFIG_MODVERSIONS=y CONFIG_KMOD=y Anyone else experiencing problems with this kernel? Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain

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apt-get question
by Nick Heppleston 05 Mar '04

05 Mar '04

I read some time ago in a Linux Mag article that it was possible to filter certain packages out in apt-get upgrade, specifically an upgrade to the kernel. I'm looking to do just that but as usual, I can't find the magazine or any reference on the 'net. So, does anyone here have any experience of filtering out certain packages, for example: kernel*, apache* etc.. So that upgrades to the kernel and apache are not applied, while all other upgrades are. I'm presuming its some configuration option somewhere in /etc/apt... Any suggestions greatly appreciated. Regards, Nick -- Nick Heppleston 07989 581766 | nickheppleston(a)gmx.co.uk

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RE: [ALUG] Linux Newbie Book
by Jenny Hopkins 03 Mar '04

03 Mar '04

Nick Daniels wrote: > They all ask me the same question . Where can I find a > basic book on using Linux? > Can anyone reccomend one please? > P.S. I promise never to ask about parallel port modems again. > Regards Hi Nick, "Running Linux" by O'Reilly is an excellent first book. Jen (parallel port modem expert extraordinaire :-)) ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

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Elliott 803B (pre-Linux)
by Christopher Dawkins 03 Mar '04

03 Mar '04

> Myself (BJ), John (with homemade biscuits, thanks) MJR, Adam, Kirty, Brett, > Peter Onion (with very interesting emulator of a very old mainframe... > something begining with E 800 which had very cool graphics and noises). > Elliott 803. Here is a picture of the machine I used to use when I was > at school. http://www.g6lvb.com/803.htm > More pictures at http://members.ozemail.com.au/~jacksmth/ell803.htm > including a shot of the Calcomp 565 plotter Ah, these are names I recognise. An emulation of the 803, or just of the Calcomp plotter? Sounds exciting anyway: I'm most interested. If it might compile on FreeBSD and run in KDE? I have here various 803B parts, in particular a flexowriter and a Creed teleprinter that might soon have to go for scrap unless someone can find a good home. Not working, but not rusty - could work given a lot of TLC. All the bins around our Computer Centre are Elliot paper tape bins. I have core planes on my desk. There's not many other places you can point and say "There's a bit ... ". -- Christopher Dawkins, Felsted School, Dunmow, Essex CM6 3JG 01371-822698, mobile 07816 821659 cchd(a)felsted.essex.sch.uk

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Flexbackup
by bjsamuels＠beenthere-donethat.org.uk 03 Mar '04

03 Mar '04

I discovered, a few weeks ago, a backup script called Flexbackup which I rather like. I can use it to backup a remote machine via ssh. Once ssh is setup to do a password-less login Flexbackup can do the rest. What it doesn't provide is an option to restore to a remote machine. Is there a way of retrieving a file or files from a tape on the local machine, using Afio, and passing it across directly to the remote machine via ssh rather than restoring locally and copying across? Any technical gems gratefully received. Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain

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Linux Newbie Book
by Nick Daniels 03 Mar '04

03 Mar '04

Hi I have been installing Linux f.o.c. for a number of people at their request, most of these people are just home computer users who are fed up with M$ , viruses, etc They only wish to use their computer for office, internet, Mp3s etc. and have little or no knowledge of computing They all ask me the same question . Where can I find a basic book on using Linux? Can anyone reccomend one please? P.S. I promise never to ask about parallel port modems again. Regards Nick Daniels

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Re: [ALUG] OT: e-mail accounts
by Tristan Scott 03 Mar '04

03 Mar '04

IanBell wrote: > On Thursday 26 Feb 2004 9:55 pm, Tristan Scott wrote: > >>MJ Ray wrote: >> >>>On 2004-02-15 10:27:57 +0000 Richard Lewis <richard.lewis(a)uea.ac.uk> > > wrote: > >>>>wandering if anyone knew of anyone who provides free e-mail accounts >>>>that would work well with a normal mail client (like KMail, Evolution >>>>etc.) >> >>Ive had no problems with geek.com, plus you get an email @geek.com, whoohoo >>anyway, their web mail client allows you to check up to 5 pop accounts >>too, which is cool (and handy when in weird places and unable to simply >>telnet). There was rumblings about having to pay to keep your account >>months ago, but my rarely-accessed 3 year old account's still there, and >>working. >> > > > Just been there and tried to sign in. I got the following message: > > Due to a business decision, Geek.com is no longer offering Geek.com e-mail > addresses. We apologise if this causes any distress. > > Ian > > oh. well, that explains why mine's still working i guess.

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What is Opne Source
by Vasko Tomanov 02 Mar '04

02 Mar '04

What is Open Source: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20040226003735733 video vresion: http://jolt.law.harvard.edu./p.cgi/speakers.html

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Alternatives to hash and binary chop search - are there any others?
by Chris Green 02 Mar '04

02 Mar '04

This isn't really a Linux question but members of this list might have some ideas/answers. I have a little 68000 assembler project I'm doing for someone (paid!) and basically it consists of replacing a 'built on the fly' look-up table with a ready made one which is uploaded with the code. The existing code uses a rather messy hash look-up and one of the reasons for the re-write is to make it simpler and more reliable. A linear search of the table probably isn't a good idea as it would mean that there would be significant differences in look-up time for entries at the beginning and end of the table. I'm leaning towards a binary-chop search but wondered if anyone had any other ideas. Binary-chop is easy in principle but it's often quite difficult to implement in practice because one has to deal with messy boundary conditions. It's also a bit more difficult to create the sorted table necessary automatically and relying on the creator of the table to sort it might be a bit dodgy. The table looks up ATM addresses (16 bit values) given an IP address (32 bit values), maximum size is of the order of 400 entries. -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk)

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RE: [ALUG] Linux Newbie Book
by Jenny Hopkins 02 Mar '04

02 Mar '04

Stan Fraser wrote: > only if you have a brain as big as a planet Jenny > > Hey, that's me! ;-) jen ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

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Syleham Meeting Sunday 29th
by Peter Onion 02 Mar '04

02 Mar '04

I'm a bit of a "sleeping member" but I'm intending to come up to Syleham on Sunday. I'll bring my Mini-ITX SuSE 9.0 machine along. It's got images of the the SuSE 9.0 CDs on it for network (nfs) installs if anyone wants to do that. It'll run as a wireless access point as well if needs be. Peter Onion

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TV cards and DVD writers in Linux
by Chris Green 01 Mar '04

01 Mar '04

Does anyone here have any experience of running TV cards and/or DVD writers under Linux? I have a Kworld V-Stream Xpert 883 card (Conexant CX2388x based) and wonder if there might be any Linux software to drive it, the windows software for it is generally pretty awful. Lots of "lets try and make it look like a TV/Video" and very little actual usability. In addition I'd quite like to record the captured video (presumably MPG2) to a DVD (in 'playable on a DVD player; format). I currently have a Liteon LDW811-S DVD writer in my Win2k system, I sort of can write captured MPG2 files to the DVD writer as DVDs but the whole process is distinctly flakey. Will I have all the same problems in Linux because the software is still in its infancy or are things more 'together' unde Linux? -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk)

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Patitioning
by IanBell 01 Mar '04

01 Mar '04

I often try new distros or upgrade the one I am using. Currently I have four partitions on my hard drive. Two are for two different linux distros, one for swap and another for M$. I have just moved from mainly working on one linux distro to the other which has meant copying lots of files from one /home/myuser directory to the other and changing lots of permissions. basically a pain. I am thinking of re-partitioning to include a permanent /home partition which can be used by either linux distro. This way I can install or upgrade distros to my hearts content without having to worry about transferring user files. So the question, does this work, is it practical, are ther any pitfalls? Cheers Ian

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RE: [ALUG] Syleham Meeting Sunday 29th
by Jenny Hopkins 01 Mar '04

01 Mar '04

MJRay wrote: >I thought the meeting was quite fun, with old machine emulators, >Revolution OS, and talking about all of you in your absence. :) Did >your ears burn? Well, you know what they say...."If there's one thing worse than being talked about, it's not being talked about" Jen ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

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RE: [ALUG] Syleham Meeting Sunday 29th
by Jenny Hopkins 01 Mar '04

01 Mar '04

Chris Green wrote: > I live down down one of "those tiny lanes" and rode my > motorbike to work this morning. I have to admit I did wonder > if I was being stupid but I made it without any disasters. > Ditto :-) Cold hands, eh? John - sorry not to be there, it's my Favourite Venue. Jen ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 01 Mar '04

01 Mar '04

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Postfix and Bogofilter
by Graham Trott 29 Feb '04

29 Feb '04

I've done something - dunno what - to break my Postfix setup. No mail is getting through (so I may have trouble reading any replies!) and the following messages are appearing in /var/log/mail: >>> Feb 23 20:39:02 server postfix/qmgr[1456]: warning: connect to transport filter;: No such file or directory Feb 23 20:39:11 server popper[5855]: Stats: graham 0 0 0 0 dsl-217-155-232-206.zen.co.uk 217.155.232.206 [pop_updt.c:296] Feb 23 20:40:02 server postfix/qmgr[1456]: warning: connect to transport filter;: No such file or directory Feb 23 20:40:16 server popper[5856]: Stats: graham 0 0 0 0 dsl-217-155-232-206.zen.co.uk 217.155.232.206 [pop_updt.c:296] <<< It's something to do with setting up Bogofilter as a spam filter. The alterations to /etc/postfix/master.cf are as follows: >>> smtp inet n - n - - smtpd -o content_filter=filter: . . filter unix - n n - - pipe flags=R user=filter argv=/home/filter/postfix-filter.sh -f ${sender} -- ${recipient} <<< and /home/filter/postfix-filter.sh is a script in accordance with instructions at http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/bogofilter/bogofilter/doc/ integrating-with-postfix?content-type=text%2Fplain&rev=1.3 Any clues would be most welcome. -- GT

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How to find what fonts are available for enscript/CUPS
by Chris Green 28 Feb '04

28 Feb '04

I have a Slackware 9.1 system with CUPS installed and working. I'm using enscript to print some files. How can I find out what fonts are available (i.e. what can I put after the -f parameter in enscript)? Both Courier and Times-roman work but there are probably others. I don't think they're the same as the X fonts. In /usr/share/cups/fonts there's just Courier so it must be getting Times-roman from somewhere else. If I could find the somewhere else I might be able to see what other fonts are there. -- Chris Green (chris(a)areti.co.uk)

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Re: [ALUG] Headless RedHat
by Matt Parker 28 Feb '04

28 Feb '04

On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 13:13, Peter Onion wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 12:33, Matt Parker wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > I've got 3 boxen I want to use in my configuration - 2 RedHat 7.3 boxen > > (one running Oracle 9i, one running IBM WebSphere) and 1 Mandrake 9.1 > > box. I've got 1 two-port KVM switch so I can view one of the RedHat > > boxen as well as my Mandrake desktop. The problem is that I cannot get > > the other RedHat box to boot in headless mode (I don't want to reinstall > > since a lot of time and effort went into getting Oracle and WebSphere > > set up correctly). I've tried using serial cable/minicom for the second > > box, but no joy. Anyone here managed to get Linux/x86 booting in > > headless mode? > > How does it fail ? > Who knows? I'm trying to run it headless!!! Matt -- http://www.mpcontracting.co.uk Experts in Java development and website design

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Was: [alug social] lugs 'round these parts?
by Duncan Sample 27 Feb '04

27 Feb '04

Just moving this discussion to this list, and adding to it :o) -----Forwarded Message----- > From: Duncan Sample > To: social(a)lists.alug.org.uk > Subject: [alug social] lugs 'round these parts? > > Are the LUGs round generally weekly or monthly? Apart from the Cambridge one being weekly I haven't heard much about the LUGs round these parts, and the websites don't say much :o) > > I was wondering lately about whether it would be a good idea to start up a Cambridgeshire Fenland LUG (oh no, not another LUG!, lol), to bridge the gap between Peterborough and Cambridge. > > I want to have a regular social LUG like the classic LUG model of the home-brew club... people submitting bugs online and saying what gathering they're planning to go to, then people can try and find a solution if they have a free moment, and if it's not fixed online, I'd print the list of unsolved problems for people turning up that night and take the list along for people to thrash out. > > That's the main thing I thought of for the site, the fact that there would be a central store of people's questions (I know there's sites for that already), but most importantly, them saying where they're planning to meet, and whether they'll have their computer there for people to hack there ideas out until it's solved :o) > > I'm starting to make the site for it anyway, since I get bored at the weekend and start doodling new things (hey, it keeps me occupied) lol, just wanted to ask for the general opinions, and any other ideas for things that would help the running of LUGs :o) > > Duncan > > PS: Of course if it turns out my hair-brain idea would be useful, I'd see about starting an SF project for it so everyone can benefit -----MJ Ray replied----- > An ALUG question-site seems a good idea. I'd link to it. How would it > play with the email? Are you planning to use a bug tracker like mantis > or something like that? There's probably things that would need > adding, like being able to subscribe to get email notices of problems. I was thinking of making it from scratch, with the possibility of bringing in code from other projects to produce a cohesive tool that any LUG/group of LUGS could use. The questions side of things I was thinking would be made so that people could submit questions through the web (and possibly link into an e-mail account/SMS system so people can send questions in different ways). The person would enter the question, possibly a category, and the route they'd like to get their answer (Just e-mail/web or through a gathering) and details about the gathering they want to attend. The question would then get e-mailed out to everyone who's selected to get new questions (either all new questions, or all for that LUG/venue/particular gathering). All responses to the question (again web/sms/wap/email, etc) would get sent to the originator (and anyone subscribed to the question) and added to the discussion for that question. Before a gathering (I'm thinking pub social), the organiser would go onto the site and print out a summary of all the questions that people would like answered at that gathering (export to PDA compatible file/PDF an option), this would print all the questions that haven't been marked as 'answered', and depending on the quantity of responses those aswell. After a gathering, any answers would be entered onto the website against the relevant questions, and those questions then closed (e-mailing all interested users about the final answer). ----- Other things I thought might be useful to include in the package are: An in depth venue and gatherings/events database... with links to maps, directions, type of venue, features(net connection, pool table, private room, etc) for each venue. Gatherings would have details such as the type of gathering (social, hack/install fest, etc), and possibly a list of everyone interested in that event. Guides Archive... more than just a howto archive, more of a book about running Linux in the real world, written by the people who use it, the LUGs/users could make chapters/articles to go into an central ebook. Each chapter could be set up in a discussion-thread-like format (or wiki) while in development, and a system made so that when a chapter is finalised it is brought together nicely into one document. People would then be able to read the current finalised book online or download it as a PDF or XML. If it was made so that things are assigned to users/LUGs then we could make the site customisable enough that every LUG could have their own complete site within the system (template completely customisable through a content manager), then they could link to events/questions/venues from all LUGs on the system (especially useful for LUGs that share coverage or partner up as with ALUG), and generally interweave all the LUGs into one cohesive community. ----- So... as I have thoroughly bored everyone with my ramblings I'll stop there (I just realised how much rambling I'd done, lol). The ideas are just that at the moment, but if enough people are interested/would like to help develop the ideas into a workable system with me, then I'll draw up a plan and we can get the ball moving on getting a SourceForge project started. Duncan Sample http://www.antimatters.org.uk http://antimatters.homelinux.net

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Was: [alug social] lugs 'round these parts?
by Duncan Sample 27 Feb '04

27 Feb '04

Just moving this discussion to this list, and adding to it :o) -----Forwarded Message----- > From: Duncan Sample > To: social(a)lists.alug.org.uk > Subject: [alug social] lugs 'round these parts? > > Are the LUGs round generally weekly or monthly? Apart from the Cambridge one being weekly I haven't heard much about the LUGs round these parts, and the websites don't say much :o) > > I was wondering lately about whether it would be a good idea to start up a Cambridgeshire Fenland LUG (oh no, not another LUG!, lol), to bridge the gap between Peterborough and Cambridge. > > I want to have a regular social LUG like the classic LUG model of the home-brew club... people submitting bugs online and saying what gathering they're planning to go to, then people can try and find a solution if they have a free moment, and if it's not fixed online, I'd print the list of unsolved problems for people turning up that night and take the list along for people to thrash out. > > That's the main thing I thought of for the site, the fact that there would be a central store of people's questions (I know there's sites for that already), but most importantly, them saying where they're planning to meet, and whether they'll have their computer there for people to hack there ideas out until it's solved :o) > > I'm starting to make the site for it anyway, since I get bored at the weekend and start doodling new things (hey, it keeps me occupied) lol, just wanted to ask for the general opinions, and any other ideas for things that would help the running of LUGs :o) > > Duncan > > PS: Of course if it turns out my hair-brain idea would be useful, I'd see about starting an SF project for it so everyone can benefit -----MJ Ray replied----- > An ALUG question-site seems a good idea. I'd link to it. How would it > play with the email? Are you planning to use a bug tracker like mantis > or something like that? There's probably things that would need > adding, like being able to subscribe to get email notices of problems. I was thinking of making it from scratch, with the possibility of bringing in code from other projects to produce a cohesive tool that any LUG/group of LUGS could use. The questions side of things I was thinking would be made so that people could submit questions through the web (and possibly link into an e-mail account/SMS system so people can send questions in different ways). The person would enter the question, possibly a category, and the route they'd like to get their answer (Just e-mail/web or through a gathering) and details about the gathering they want to attend. The question would then get e-mailed out to everyone who's selected to get new questions (either all new questions, or all for that LUG/venue/particular gathering). All responses to the question (again web/sms/wap/email, etc) would get sent to the originator (and anyone subscribed to the question) and added to the discussion for that question. Before a gathering (I'm thinking pub social), the organiser would go onto the site and print out a summary of all the questions that people would like answered at that gathering (export to PDA compatible file/PDF an option), this would print all the questions that haven't been marked as 'answered', and depending on the quantity of responses those aswell. After a gathering, any answers would be entered onto the website against the relevant questions, and those questions then closed (e-mailing all interested users about the final answer). ----- Other things I thought might be useful to include in the package are: An in depth venue and gatherings/events database... with links to maps, directions, type of venue, features(net connection, pool table, private room, etc) for each venue. Gatherings would have details such as the type of gathering (social, hack/install fest, etc), and possibly a list of everyone interested in that event. Guides Archive... more than just a howto archive, more of a book about running Linux in the real world, written by the people who use it, the LUGs/users could make chapters/articles to go into an central ebook. Each chapter could be set up in a discussion-thread-like format (or wiki) while in development, and a system made so that when a chapter is finalised it is brought together nicely into one document. People would then be able to read the current finalised book online or download it as a PDF or XML. If it was made so that things are assigned to users/LUGs then we could make the site customisable enough that every LUG could have their own complete site within the system (template completely customisable through a content manager), then they could link to events/questions/venues from all LUGs on the system (especially useful for LUGs that share coverage or partner up as with ALUG), and generally interweave all the LUGs into one cohesive community. ----- So... as I have thoroughly bored everyone with my ramblings I'll stop there (I just realised how much rambling I'd done, lol). The ideas are just that at the moment, but if enough people are interested/would like to help develop the ideas into a workable system with me, then I'll draw up a plan and we can get the ball moving on getting a SourceForge project started. Duncan Sample http://www.antimatters.org.uk http://antimatters.homelinux.net -- "Imagine what it took for Microsoft to piss off so many people that they're all willing to work night and day without pay just to bring that company down." - Bruce Perens

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