- main - earth.li

ALUG Meeting
by Martin Collins 29 Oct '03

29 Oct '03

Hi only just joined the list a few days ago. Would like to attend meeting if that's OK as have yet to meet anyone else who uses Linux. Rgds, Martin Collins

4 3

Meeting
by Martin Collins 28 Oct '03

28 Oct '03

Sorry, my geography is a bit off. Didn't realise it was so far from me. Maybe next time but will cancel. Rgds, Martin

1 0

Calling Zaurus owners
by Wayne Stallwood 28 Oct '03

28 Oct '03

Is anybody out there using OpenZaurus ? After 6 months or so of not looking at it, I'd thought I'd give it another go. Open Zaurus 3.2 has a strange bug for me. If I suspend/unsuspend the Zaurus with a CF card inserted I frequently get no response from Opie for about 30 seconds. Sometimes I get a login prompt at the bottom of the screen. It's bug number 733158 (and I have just added some comments) Has anybody else experienced this (and hopefully found a workaround) I'd love to switch from the Sharp Rom, but problems like this keep getting in my way.

1 0

Re: OT: Standard of IT in schools across the country
by Ben Norcutt 28 Oct '03

28 Oct '03

>Such bravery, putting XP net-facing in such numbers. Of course they keep >all the machines patched... Nobody said anything about the machines being Internet facing. All connections from Schools to the Internet by the links provided by Norfolk LEA are one big VPN. This then goes into a server farm of proxies at baynard house provided by BT then through the BT networks to the outside world. Information on standards etc... for Schools can be found on the DFES website. I know personally that as a School our budget isn't big enough to include upgrading and replacing machines this money has come from the Government via NGFL funding. Cheers, Ben Norcutt

1 0

Announce digest, Vol 2 #21 - 1 msg
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 28 Oct '03

28 Oct '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. LOCAL: GNU/Linux/ALUG/Ely Wed 29 Oct (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:36:31 +0000 Subject: [Alug Announce]LOCAL: GNU/Linux/ALUG/Ely Wed 29 Oct [1]ALUG [2]Map Meeting 2003.15: Ely: Fountain 29 October 2003 Plan for the meeting We'll meet at [3]the Fountain at 1900. Someone will put a penguin on the table, ALUGgers will gather round and chat. Because we're in a pub, please only bring portable equipment like laptops and handhelds. People at the meeting So far, Adam, Kirsty, Rob and Daniel look fairly certain to be there. If you will be coming to this meeting, please try to say so on the mailing list, so we can be prepared for the numbers! Use [4]the meeting transport page if you can share your journey. Equipment Equipment is brought at your own risk. We strongly suggest that you tag or label your kit. No known thefts have occurred at our meetings, but there is ample scope for going home with the wrong cables, etc. Discussion If you want to discuss this meeting, please [5]use the mailing list. [6]Back to the meetings index * Destinations 1. [7]Join ALUG 2. [8]FAQ 3. [9]Meetings * Local LUGs 1. [10]Peterborough 2. [11]Cambridge * Recent Donors 1. [12]PHP4Hosting 2. [13]Black Cat Networks 3. [14]Martyn Drake 4. [15]Turo Technology LLP 5. [16]O'Reilly UK You may think I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one [17]UK LUGs References 1. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 2. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 3. http://www.britishpubguide.com/cgi-bin/pub.cgi?results:Cambridgeshire:1147 4. http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?MeetingTransport 5. http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main 6. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/ 7. http://www.alug.org.uk/background/contacts.html 8. http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?AlugFaq 9. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/ 10. http://www.peterboro.lug.org.uk/ 11. http://www.cambridge-lug.org/ 12. http://www.php4hosting.co.uk/ 13. http://www.blackcatnetworks.co.uk/ 14. http://www.drake.org.uk/ 15. http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ 16. http://www.oreilly.co.uk/ 17. http://www.lug.org.uk/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

1 0

[Alug]Gnoppix
by Keith Watson 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

Has anyone else seen and tried Gnoppix (www.gnoppix.org)? Gnoppix is a Knoppix clone that uses Gnome 2+ rather than KDE. Keith

2 1

[Alug]Suse 8.1 Live Eval CD problem
by Syd Hancock 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

This is a question I've been meaning to ask for a while. When I first got my T23 Think[ad a couple of months ago I tried a Suse 8.1 Live Evaluation disk in it and what happened when it went past the opening screen was really scary. The machine totally locked up with a blank screen, the green leds were flashing, the fan came on and the hot air was really hot and smelled of hot electronics... the thing was totally locked up and not even the power button would do anything. I really thought it was totally fried (lm_sensors was the first thing I thought of) but thankfully after a few minutes the fan stopped and I was able to power it up again and take the CD out. Since then I have installed mandrake 9.1 with no problems (except the minor glitch of getting a video driver) and has run perfectly ever since. Knoppix no probelms either (and it has the correct video driver too). But it has put me right off Suse which I would actully like to try out. Has anyone else seen this and/or does anyone have any comments? Syd

3 4

[Alug]Suse Problems
by Nick Daniels 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

HI Suse 8.0, 8.1, 8.2, total system freeze only when connected to internet, and running KDE The freeze occurs about once in fifteen times connected to internet num lock light flashes, caps lock flashes, I can run Gnome forever and the system never locks I have a normal dial up connection Mandrake O.K , i have a normal dial up connnection and external modem System xp1600 , 768Mb ram, hard disc IBM deskstar Regards Nick Daniels

2 2

RE: Re[2]: [Alug]Problem 2 - Unkillable processes
by Jenny Hopkins 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

> Stuart Clark <stuart.clark(a)Jahingo.com> wrote: > > > Barry Samuels wrote: > > > > > > Just recently I have started an application that then freezes. It > > > shows in the list of processes viewed using something like KDE > > > System Guard or Top but cannot be killed by using either of the > > > above or 'kill' from the command line. > > > > > > > Have you tried kill -9 <pid> ? > > No but I did try from KDE System Guard using KILL rather than > TERM and that didn't work so I imagine that kill -9 <pid> > wouldn't work either but I will try it if (when?) it happens again. > There is also "kill -s KILL <pid>" which sometimes works if kill doesn't. Jen

1 0

[Alug]Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

1 0

[Alug]Problem 2 - Unkillable processes
by bsamuels＠beenthere-donethat.org.uk 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

Just recently I have started an application that then freezes. It shows in the list of processes viewed using something like KDE System Guard or Top but cannot be killed by using either of the above or 'kill' from the command line. Is there any way of killing these processes? The only way that I have found is to reboot which seems a bit drastic. Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain

4 4

Re: [Alug]Problem 2 - Unkillable processes
by Stuart Clark 26 Oct '03

26 Oct '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Barry Samuels wrote: > > Just recently I have started an application that then freezes. It > shows in the list of processes viewed using something like KDE System > Guard or Top but cannot be killed by using either of the above or > 'kill' from the command line. > Have you tried kill -9 <pid> ? - -- Stuart Clark mailto:stuart.clark@Jahingo.com http://www.Jahingo.com/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/m9wM8fzjqiF3TCIRApmtAJ0RDCFEdbpH0KcThXx7KFnDejAc2wCdHEtL n9lQ296Q3dLpJkbIwSQG/5Y= =zAVW -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

2 1

Re: [Alug]Problem 1 - Snort and local LAN
by Stuart Clark 26 Oct '03

26 Oct '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Barry Samuels wrote: > > Debian has a DEBIAN_SNORT_HOME_NET variable which should be set to > 192.168.n.n/nn. What do I need to set it to to disregard anything > coming from 19.168.anything? > If that is how it is expecting it use '192.168.0.0/16' The simplest netmasks to remember are 8, 16, 24 & 32 which correspond to 192.x.x.x, 192.168.x.x, 192.168.0.x and 192.168.0.1 (ie one of the 4 'dotted quads' more each time until a 32 which is a single ip address) - -- Stuart Clark mailto:stuart.clark@Jahingo.com http://www.Jahingo.com/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/m9vp8fzjqiF3TCIRAuy8AJ9U3tw5R1+QIcCMpKO0wuDDZBhgBwCeIJBh eVQW415oDuJ//GyuejMwEc0= =OeEH -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

[Alug]Problem 1 - Snort and local LAN
by bsamuels＠beenthere-donethat.org.uk 26 Oct '03

26 Oct '03

My computer has two LAN sockets on eth0 and eth1. My home network is connected via eth0 and my ADSL router via eth1. I want Snort to disregard activity on either eth0 or eth1 and to monitor only traffic coming from the Internet where the router's address is 192.168.n.n. Debian has a DEBIAN_SNORT_HOME_NET variable which should be set to 192.168.n.n/nn. What do I need to set it to to disregard anything coming from 19.168.anything? I especially don't understand the net mask bit even though I have read a bit about it. Goes over the head I'm afraid. Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain

1 0

RE: [Alug]Time to give something back
by Karl Foley 25 Oct '03

25 Oct '03

Ian Douglas now has all the Sun kit. I made him promise before I left that if he found he had no use/too much then would he pass it on. I hope you're doing ok with it Ian, I'm just glad I eventually remembered the root password! --- ATB, Karl. -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan McDowell [mailto:noodles@earth.li] Sent: 23 October 2003 23:49 To: Karl Foley Subject: Re: [Alug]Time to give something back On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 10:45:24PM +0100, Karl Foley wrote: > Due to a clear out I now find I've got nowhere to store my Sun kit so > would like to donate it to a loving home. I have had a flavour of > Linux (Debian?) running on it but most of the time it's been running good old Solaris. > > Details of what I have are: > > Sparc 5 Base Station > Scsi Cdrom > Floppy > 128MB RAM > 2 Internal SCA Scsi drives > > Sparc 5 Base Station > Scsi Cdrom > Floppy (I think) > 64MB RAM (I think) > 1 Internal SCA Scsi drive I'd love some better Sun kit; if either of these are still available I'll gladly take one. Obviously the one with more RAM would be more appealing if it's still free. J. -- I don't tip. This .sig was brought to you by the letter G and the numbers 5 & 20 Product of the Republic of HuggieTag

2 1

[Alug]Announce digest, Vol 2 #20 - 1 msg
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 25 Oct '03

25 Oct '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. RE: Stallman Visit ( (Ted Harding)) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:55:48 +0100 (BST) Reply-To: Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk From: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Subject: [Alug Announce]RE: Stallman Visit On 24-Oct-03 announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk wrote: > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:39:19 +0100 > From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> > To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk > Organization: Very poor > Subject: [Alug Announce]RMS Injured - Speeches in the balance. (fwd) > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: 2003-10-22 12:00:15 +0100 > From: Nick Hill <nick(a)nickhill.co.uk> > Subject: RMS Injured - Speeches in the balance. > > I have just had news that RMS is suffering a broken arm in a Finnish > hospital. His trip to the UK is in the balance. > > In order to keep people up to date about the current status of RMS' > trip to the UK and whether the speeches will go ahead/ in what form, I > have put up a web page: > > http://www.nickhill.co.uk/rms-speech-status.html According to messages on the Sheflug and linux-users lists, RMS will in fact be travelling to the UK after all (due to speak in Sheffield on Saturday). Ted. =================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:43:11 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Ibbotson <richard(a)sheflug.co.uk> To: David Johnson <dj(a)david-web.co.uk> Subject: [linux-users] Re: RMS Speech in balance Cc: linux-users(a)lists.man.ac.uk, man-lug(a)lists.man.ac.uk Hi Just got some mail from RMS. He says he will be here in Sheffield as was originally planned for Saturday afternoon. So, I'll look forward to meeting anyone from the other side of the hill who hopes to come along :) Thanks Richard www.sheflug.org http://lists.man.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/linux-users -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 167 1972 Date: 24-Oct-03 Time: 16:55:48 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

1 0

[Alug]Linux Install Problems
by Stuart Hammond 25 Oct '03

25 Oct '03

Im having a problem installing red hat 9 and suse 8.2 on my desktop computer as both crash out in installation, the system i use is an intel PIII 750 with 128mb ram and 40GB hard drive when red hat starts to install to the hard drive it and displays the message "abnormal install error -- signal 11 sent" and in SuSE also at the start of installation it displays the error message "XFree86 - man - 4.3.0 - 15 ERROR (instTarget:some subprocessesfailed) -?- Any suggestions any one? Yours S Hammond

2 1

[Alug]The Broadband Search Continues
by Nick Heppleston 24 Oct '03

24 Oct '03

As the title of this e-mail suggests, the search for broadband continues. After a brief dabble in wireless with a local ISP, which unfortunately came to nothing, I'm now investigating one-way satellite broadband. I've found a supplier called netsystems ( www.netsystem.com ) who use Astra for the downlink aspect of the connection. I can make a slight modification to my Sky dish (i.e. add a dual LNB) and pick up the signal. However, I need to invest in what Net Systems call a 'Sat Modem'. They ship a free Windows 'Sat Modem' when you sign up, but I'm interested to know whether anyone has ever come across a Linux compatible 'sat modem'? I may be forced to move my Gentoo based router to a Win2k install to benefit from the faster connection offered by the satellite (Help!!!!) Any help would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, Nick -- Nick Heppleston 07989 581766 | nickheppleston(a)gmx.co.uk The Funky PC - http://www.thefunkypc.biz

2 1

[Alug]RE: Stallman Visit
by Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 24 Oct '03

24 Oct '03

[forwarding this to Alug direct since in fact I replied to "announce" and it may be delayed] -----FW: <XFMail.031024165548.Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk>----- Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:55:48 +0100 (BST) From: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Subject: RE: Stallman Visit On 24-Oct-03 announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk wrote: > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:39:19 +0100 > From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> > To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk > Organization: Very poor > Subject: [Alug Announce]RMS Injured - Speeches in the balance. (fwd) > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: 2003-10-22 12:00:15 +0100 > From: Nick Hill <nick(a)nickhill.co.uk> > Subject: RMS Injured - Speeches in the balance. > > I have just had news that RMS is suffering a broken arm in a Finnish > hospital. His trip to the UK is in the balance. > > In order to keep people up to date about the current status of RMS' > trip to the UK and whether the speeches will go ahead/ in what form, I > have put up a web page: > > http://www.nickhill.co.uk/rms-speech-status.html According to messages on the Sheflug and linux-users lists, RMS will in fact be travelling to the UK after all (due to speak in Sheffield on Saturday). See below. Ted. =================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:43:11 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Ibbotson <richard(a)sheflug.co.uk> To: David Johnson <dj(a)david-web.co.uk> Subject: [linux-users] Re: RMS Speech in balance Cc: linux-users(a)lists.man.ac.uk, man-lug(a)lists.man.ac.uk Hi Just got some mail from RMS. He says he will be here in Sheffield as was originally planned for Saturday afternoon. So, I'll look forward to meeting anyone from the other side of the hill who hopes to come along :) Thanks Richard www.sheflug.org http://lists.man.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ========================================================== -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 167 1972 Date: 24-Oct-03 Time: 17:45:01 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

1 0

[Alug]Announce digest, Vol 2 #19 - 2 msgs
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 24 Oct '03

24 Oct '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. EU patent officials meeting this week. Letters needed *now*. (fwd) (MJ Ray) 2. RMS Injured - Speeches in the balance. (fwd) (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:07:04 +0100 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Organization: Very poor Subject: [Alug Announce]EU patent officials meeting this week. Letters needed *now*. (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 2003-10-21 18:54:35 +0100 From: James Heald <j.heald(a)ucl.ac.uk> Subject: [Fsfe-uk] Fwd: [SWPAT] EU patent officials meeting this week. Letters needed *now*. Below is (very slightly revised) an email alert sent out to FFII supporters. Faxes sent to MPs today/tonight could be particularly important (especially if the local MP is a Lib Dem). Use www.faxyourmp.com Please forward this alert at will to any mailing lists where it has not already been posted. --------------------------------------------------------------------- [SWPAT] EU patent officials meeting this week. Letters needed *now*. A web version can be found at http://www.ffii.org.uk/council.html Foundation for a Free Information Infrastructure UK Dear Supporter[1], In September the European Parliament voted[2] for strong restrictions[3] on software patentability, after having heard powerful arguments from economists[4], scientists[5], small business associations[6] and MEPs[7] that software patents would be bad for e-commerce[8], bad for small businesses[9], and bad for innovation[10]. But this vote is in danger of being set aside[11] at a meeting of the EU's Competitiveness Council of Ministers[12] on 10 November. The ministers' meeting is to be "negotiated" at a meeting of senior patent officials[13] from across Europe even sooner: this Thursday 23 October. If UK ministers cannot be convinced otherwise before 10 November, it is believed they will push for the Council to adopt a November 2002 draft text[14], which is even worse than the infamous McCarthy report[15]. The European Parliament's rules for second reading make it very difficult for MEPs to fix a bad text from the Council. So far UK ministers have been sleepwalking, automatically following a Patent Office script. The FFII is therefore calling for all supporters to contact their local MPs, as soon as possible. We have until 10 November at the latest to wake up UK ministers up the dangers of software patents. If at all possible we need to try to make an impact before this Thursday. It could be our last good chance to stop software patents in Europe. Every letter could be the one which tips the balance. Every letter counts. Best regards, Software Patents Workgroup, FFII-UK Supporters elsewhere in Europe may like to look at this page at FFII[16] for information on who to contact, and what else can be done. Know your stuff: * How important is the Council of Ministers? * What is the UK position? * Are software patents good for software developers? * What does the minister need to know? * Who to contact * How to be effective * How to stay in touch How important is the Council of Ministers? VERY. The European Parliament's rules for second reading make it far more difficult for MEPs to fix a bad text from the Council, because any amendments need an absolute majority[17] of all of the 623 elected MEPs -- ie usually far more than 50% of those actually voting in the chamber. What is the UK position? UK policy has so far been led by the UK Patent Office[18]. The UKPO has been particularly active in lobbying[19] for unlimited patentability and is unlikely to support a platform which is acceptable to anyone except the patent industry. Unless they can be convinced otherwise, UK Government ministers are being led by UKPO officials to support the November 2002 draft[20] drawn up by patent offices across Europe. The Nov 2002 version actively supports software patenting, unlike the September 2003 European Parliament text[21]. Replies from ministers[22] are claiming that the UK Patent Office's consultation[23] 3 years ago produced results which were "broadly in favour" of the UKPO position. In fact, the views[24] of software professionals (as opposed to patent professionals) were overwhelmingly against software patents. Are software patents good for software developers? NO. "Software patents are like landmines for programmers. At each design decision, there is a chance you will step on a patent and it will destroy your project. Considering the large number of ideas that must be combined in a modern program, the danger becomes very large." -- Richard Stallman, founder of the GNU project. Supporters of e-patents often make the simple equation patents ==innovation == growth. One of the most interesting articles to rebut this is "e-Patents and financial investing"[25] by Laura Creighton, a software venture capitalist. It explains why software patents are not necessary, nor usually even helpful, and give surprisingly little real protection. Software patents are bad for e-commerce[26], bad for small businesses[27] and bad for innovation[28]. That is why leading economists[29], scientists[30], small business associations[31], and MEPs[32] all urged the European Parliament to vote against software patents. What does the minister needs to know? * Our central request is for the the Council of Ministers not to adopt its draft November 2002 text[33] unamended, but instead to substantially revise it, adopting and building on the Parliament amendments. * Most importantly, we need to convince the Government that software patents are a bad idea. Ministers should not just follow the advice of the UK Patent Office (UKPO) uncritically. Currently UKPO are both judge and jury, and about as likely to campaign for real limits on software patents as turkeys are to vote for Christmas. Ministers must be challenged to consider for themselves what is really in the best interests of the UK software industry and all UK computer users. * Free software is directly threatened[34] by software patents. But it is essential that the campaign against software patents is not just "special pleading" by supporters of Open Source--"free-love, open-standard, freeware fanatics" according to one patent lawyer. The entire industry would be damaged by patenting and litigation. If you write about free software, please make clear how important it is to the whole software industry and commercial end-users. * The directive claims to allow the patenting of new "technical" devices, but not the patenting of "generic pure software". But the EPO regards almost any software innovation as technical[35]. Without an explicit definition, European Courts will be forced to follow the EPO doctrine. The European Parliament's most important amendment is its new very clear definition of what is and what is not "technical". * The November 2002 draft also makes abstract data processing a field of technology[36]; has no article 6a to allow interoperability[37] -- and it would allow program claims[38], so that just discussing code on a website can be a direct patent infringement. Ministers must re-open the November 2002 text. Every letter counts. Who to contact * WRITE to your local MP as soon as possible with your concerns about software patents, and ask your MP to bring them to the attention of Stephen Timms MP[39], the minister for e-commerce at the DTI. * BY ASKING your local MP to forward your concerns, you should get a reply personally signed by the minister. You could of course just write to the minister directly; but if you do, you will just receive a standard civil service reply, and the minister will never see it. * FIND your local MPs by typing your postcode in www.faxyourmp.com Then WRITE to your MP at: Name of MP, House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA * COPY your letters to uk-parl-sent @ ffii.org.uk, and replies to uk-parl-replies @ ffii.org.uk You should only write to your own local MP. You may also wish to send a blind copy of your letter to [40]Richard Mulcahy at the Patent Office. How to be effective * DO: make your letter personal. Explain who you are, how this issue affects you, and why it matters to you. * DON'T: write the same as everybody else. MPs ignore form letters. Decide which is the most logical or important starting point for you, and then bring in other points around that. * IF you are: + a small business: tell your MP why and how a rush to software patents would afftect your business. Be sure to mention your turnover and number of employees -- real money and real jobs are at stake. + a user of software: tell your MP what makes you afraid of monopolisation and loss of choice. + a member of a political party, a trade union, a university, a consumer organisation, a business association, or any other sort of organised body: think how you can mobilise your organisation to make its voice heard. + a consultant: explain to your clients - and the MP - why software patents will make it harder for you to solve their problems. * DO: be polite, reasonable and well-informed (insane abuse doesn't help). Be focussed and to the point. If your letter is very long, write a short one-page executive summary bulletting the main points, and use it as a covering letter to introduce the full brain dump. * DO: spread the word. There is very little time, and we need to make a huge impact. So unless you want to see legislation for unlimited patentability, pass the message on to other people. Encourage them to write. How to stay in touch * Join the FFII list of supporters[41] * Sign the Eurolinux petition[42] against software patents. * If you want to do more, or to keep in touch with the campaign daily, join the ffii-uk email list at ffii.org.uk - further instructions on the FFII-UK main page[43]. _________________________________________________________________ References 1. You have been sent this email because you have expressed concern about software patents in Europe, either by signing the Eurolinux Petition http://noepatents.org and/or the FFII Call for Action http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/demands/ We intend to use these lists very occasionally, to send updates and information alerts on the progress of the software patent directive through the European system. Such messages will have [SWPAT] as the first word in their subject lines. If you would prefer not to receive any more such messages, please send a reply to this email with the subject line "Remove". Thank you for your support. 2. http://news.zdnet.co.uk/business/legal/0,39020651,39116642,00.htm 3. http://swpat.ffii.org/journal/03/fsfr1010/index.en.html 4. http://www.researchineurope.org/policy/patentdirltr.htm 5. http://www.greens-efa.org/pdf/documents/SoftwarePatenting/petitiontoEP_EN.p… 6. http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/ceapme0309/index.en.html 7. http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/plen0309/deba/#framm 8. http://elis.ugent.be/~jmaebe/swpat/why.html#ecommerce 9. http://elis.ugent.be/~jmaebe/swpat/why.html#developers 10. http://elis.ugent.be/~jmaebe/swpat/why.html#innovation 11. http://news.zdnet.co.uk/business/legal/0,39020651,39116709,00.htm 12. http://wiki.ael.be/index.php/CouncilOfMinisters 13. http://register.consilium.eu.int/scripts/utfregisterDir/WebDriver.exe?MIval… 14. http://www.ffii.org.uk/nov2002.html 15. http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/amccarthy0302/index.en.html 16. http://swpat.ffii.org/group/todo/index.en.html 17. http://www2.europarl.eu.int/omk/sipade2?PUBREF=-//EP//TEXT+RULES-EP+2003020… 18. http://www.patent.gov.uk/about/ippd/issues/softpat.htm 19. http://swpat.ffii.org//players/uk/index.en.html 20. http://www.ffii.org.uk/nov2002.html 21. http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/europarl0309/ 22. http://www.ffii.org.uk/hewitt.html 23. http://www.patent.gov.uk/about/consultations/conclusions.htm 24. http://www.patent.gov.uk/about/consultations/responses/comsoft/index.htm 25. http://www.vrijschrift.org/swpat/030508_1/ 26. http://elis.ugent.be/~jmaebe/swpat/why.html#ecommerce 27. http://elis.ugent.be/~jmaebe/swpat/why.html#developers 28. http://elis.ugent.be/~jmaebe/swpat/why.html#innovation 29. http://www.researchineurope.org/policy/patentdirltr.htm 30. http://www.greens-efa.org/pdf/documents/SoftwarePatenting/petitiontoEP_EN.p… 31. http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/ceapme0309/index.en.html 32. http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/plen0309/deba/#framm 33. http://www.ffii.org.uk/nov2002.html 34. http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/stallman-patents.html 35. http://www.ffii.org.uk/technical.html 36. http://www.ffii.org.uk/fields_of_tech.html 37. http://www.ffii.org.uk/interop.html 38. http://www.ffii.org.uk/program_claims.html 39. http://www.dti.gov.uk/ministers/ministers/timms.html 40. http://www.patent.gov.uk/about/ippd/issues/softpat.htm 41. http://aktiv.ffii.org/?l=en 42. http://petition.eurolinux.org/index_html?LANG=en 43. http://www.ffii.org.uk/index.html _______________________________________________ Fsfe-uk mailing list Fsfe-uk(a)gnu.org http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-uk -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:39:19 +0100 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Organization: Very poor Subject: [Alug Announce]RMS Injured - Speeches in the balance. (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 2003-10-22 12:00:15 +0100 From: Nick Hill <nick(a)nickhill.co.uk> Subject: RMS Injured - Speeches in the balance. I have just had news that RMS is suffering a broken arm in a Finnish hospital. His trip to the UK is in the balance. In order to keep people up to date about the current status of RMS' trip to the UK and whether the speeches will go ahead/ in what form, I have put up a web page: http://www.nickhill.co.uk/rms-speech-status.html Please forward this to everyone involved or who might be attending a speech. I wish Richard Stallman a speedy recovery and hope to see him this weekend. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

1 0

[Alug]Time to give something back
by Karl Foley 23 Oct '03

23 Oct '03

I've been a long time reader of the ALUG list and a very, very occasional poster. Too much work in the day don't you know! Been into networking for the last 10 years and electronics before that. Mainly train support staff but also do the odd bit of consultancy. Someone, I believe it was Keith (we met up at Norfolk police HQ that day remember?) was kind enough to give me a small SCSI disk to replace one I had in a small external Sun disk case because the original has failed. Due to a clear out I now find I've got nowhere to store my Sun kit so would like to donate it to a loving home. I have had a flavour of Linux (Debian?) running on it but most of the time it's been running good old Solaris. Details of what I have are: Sparc 5 Base Station Scsi Cdrom Floppy 128MB RAM 2 Internal SCA Scsi drives Sparc 5 Base Station Scsi Cdrom Floppy (I think) 64MB RAM (I think) 1 Internal SCA Scsi drive External Disk Unit 2GB SCSI Drive (Thanks Keith!) Cable to connect it to Sparc 5 External Backup DDS2 DAT NO cable (Worked in a Netware box though!) 2 * Large Sun Monitors 19/21" Dunno - Big and heavy! 2 * Type 5c Sun Keyboards and 3 Button Mice This was all working when last powered up (a few months ago now). I have no media to hand but it's easy enough to get - I could possibly dig around at the weekend for some Solaris media. I'm based in Felixstowe but will drive a little way to drop the stuff off. Please drop me an eMail if you're interested: Karl(a)thefoleyhouse.co.uk P.S. Did I say it was all free! ;-) --- ATB, Karl.

1 0

[Alug]IBM TV ad for Linux
by Ben Francis 23 Oct '03

23 Oct '03

what do people think of IBM's Linux advert? http://www-5.ibm.com/e-business/uk/linux/ -- Ben "tola" Francis

6 7

[Alug]Announce digest, Vol 2 #18 - 1 msg
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 22 Oct '03

22 Oct '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. RMS talks; London + Sheffield; [this weekend!] (fwd) (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:11:19 +0100 From: MJ Ray <mjr(a)dsl.pipex.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk, peterboro(a)mailman.lug.org.uk Organization: Very poor Subject: [Alug Announce]RMS talks; London + Sheffield; [this weekend!] (fwd) Original text by Paul Sladen <lugmaster(a)paul.sladen.org>, but edited. 2003 October 25th (Saturday) 12:00 noon. Richard Stallman will give a lecture about Software Patents in the Stoddart Building at Sheffield Hallam University. http://www.sheflug.co.uk/meeting.html 2003 October 26th (Sunday) 14:30 pm. Richard Stallman will be speaking about the dangers of Software Patents at the University of Westminster, London. Meeting held by AFFS and FFII-UK. http://www.affs.org.uk/diary -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef(a)jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

1 0

[Alug]Reminder: Norwich evening meet tonight
by Syd Hancock 21 Oct '03

21 Oct '03

Meeting tonight at the Forum coffee bar, 8.00 pm onwards, thursday 16th October. Apart from us there are usually very few people there so we should not be difficult to spot - there is usually a penguin or two on the table. It's possible that I may not be able to be there tonight - if not, hope lots of people make it and have fun. Syd

8 10

[Alug]Blip - OK - I'm *JUST ABOUT* alive again.
by Brett Parker 21 Oct '03

21 Oct '03

Hi all, Right, first a quick apology, haven't read my Alug mail box for a while, so whilst doing it, there's probably a couple of replies that are well out of date. Sorry about that, must remember to check the list more often. Otherwise, right, I'm back, sortof, so I might actually be able to do something useful at some point... hell... I might even remember to read my e-mail every now and again ;) Cheers, Brett.

1 0