- main - earth.li

[Alug]Apt-Get / Devel Packages
by BenEBoy 21 Aug '03

21 Aug '03

Evening all, I'm just playing with my new morphix install and was wondering if you lot could answer a couple of questions (one strange and one vague)? The strange question is whether it's possible to halt apt-get when it's downloading stuff without losing what's already been downloaded? Until I get hooked up with broadband I'm on a dialup with a 2 hour cutoff which sort of limits what I can download in that time. I'm just looking for a way around it... The vague question is that morphix doesn't install any of the header files so it's a bit of a bugger trying to compile anything from source. So far I've had to try googling 'stdio.h' or whatever to try and work out what package it's in. Can someone tell me some of the most likely dev packages I'll need (see, told you it was vague) or possibly a better way of locating them myself? ta muchly, BenE (This debian lark is much harder than compiling everything from scatch <g>)

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[Alug]Virgin Radio
by Wayne Stallwood 21 Aug '03

21 Aug '03

Wow, I have just surfed over to http://www.virginradio.co.uk/thestation/listen/index.html To pick up a music stream to listen to and I was greeted with this message "Hello, Linux user! Virgin Radio is available in your favourite MP3 player (and Real) - the other stations are just in Real format. You can download a Linux version of Real Player from Real.com. You can also listen to our Windows streams with Crossover." I think that is the first time I've seen browser/os detection on a website and it hasn't displayed a "Your not using IE6 on Windows XP, GO AWAY" message. What a nice change.

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[Alug]Summary: Elmswell, Revolution OS
by MJ Ray 19 Aug '03

19 Aug '03

Please add to this... ALUG turned out at Elmswell (Thanks to Adam!) to watch "Debbie does Silicon Vall^W^W^W^W Revolution OS" (Thanks to Big John!) on the big screen at at (Thanks to Rob!). In the best cinema tradition, we assembled in the foyer, got our drinks and snacks (Thanks to Keith!) and then went into the auditorium. You can read a bit about the film itself on the web site, or you can ask those of us who were there about it. Afterwards, we had a bit of a chat about it, exchanged interesting tales (Fozzy, Barry, Keith) and dull ones (MJR) or just sat in a corner (Brett) and wondered: just when was Red Hat 5.1 released? Why didn't the guy in the penguin suit rugby-tackle Larry? How can we get free beer? Is 45 a good idea in a 30 zone? ;-) We also had a bit of a chat about what to do next. Ideas from the rest of the list are welcome, of course. Here or on IRC. * 1984 marks 20 years of the GNU project (the film reminded us of this), so how about a 20th birthday installfest in the new year? (March?) We could do a "mini-InstallFest" later this year for practice/testing. Need at least 10 installers to help. * Keith is interested in a Debian-themed meeting, maybe Syleham in November, as Big John is interested too and we can try to drag a developer kicking and screaming from Norwich. * Quite a few people are interested in a "from boot to halt" themed meeting explaining the boot process, shutdown process and so on. Just what do all those messages scrolling past actually *mean*? What causes them to do that? How do we change them? Perhaps we could have a short overview talk and some people taking aspects of this with posters so we can still play with kit. MJR is gullible enough to offer to help: who else? Is it possible to do this in Norwich? * Get our spare kit to people who have offered to hold kit (Colin?) * A Linux and Jam Tart Eating contest. (WTF? Eating Linux CDs?) * Sort out meeting transport and travel in groups. Encourage lurker members to come and swell our numbers. Organise further ahead to get more publicity. * The web site is really simple to add pages to now. Just download the file http://www.alug.org.uk/alug.html.template, copy it and edit with your favourite tool. Then upload it somewhere or send it to me. * Meet up at London Olympia Linux Expo in October? Next event is drinks in Ely on Thursday evening, not counting IRC tonight. Next weekend meeting that I know of is in Norwich in late September. See you there? -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ jabber://slef@jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ *UPDATED* Kit for sale at http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ads.html

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[Alug]Ian Murdoch on the Debian philosophy
by Syd Hancock 19 Aug '03

19 Aug '03

Very interesting counter-view to 'commercial linux': http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3064611 "At LinuxWorld last week, a number of people asked me what Debian could do to make itself a more viable alternative to the commercial distributions in the enterprise market. That shouldn't be Debian's focus. The focus shouldn't be on following the commercial distributions where they want to lead us, but rather on taking the lead--for example, by working with and strengthening existing vendor-neutral, community-owned standards efforts such as the Linux Standard Base (LSB)." Also, a history of Debian by IM: http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/editorials/4959/1/ "People often ask me what I would identify as Debian's most important contribution to the world. I believe it's Debian's decision to adopt a community-based development model. As far as I know, this marks the first time that a project intentionally set out to be developed by the community that used it. This is a central and critical component of the power of the open source movement--after all, if you remove the community from open source software, it's just software." Syd

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[Alug]Announce digest, Vol 2 #13 - 3 msgs
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 19 Aug '03

19 Aug '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. Fwd: Linux-sec-uk mailing list (MJ Ray) 2. LOCAL: Ely/GNU/Linux Thursday Evening (MJ Ray) 3. Fwd: [Alug]Weekly IRC reminder (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 10:43:15 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Alug Announce]Fwd: Linux-sec-uk mailing list Linux-sec-uk is a new mailing list hosted by lug.org.uk for the discussion of Linux Security. As well as technical and practical advice on Linux security at all levels, the list also covers UK-centric issues relevant to security technologies and policies. You can subscribe to the list at: http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/linux-sec-uk . --__--__-- Message: 2 From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 10:57:37 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Alug Announce]LOCAL: Ely/GNU/Linux Thursday Evening [1]ALUG [2]Map Meeting 2003.11: Ely: Cutter and Fountain 21 August 2003 Plan for the meeting We'll meet at [3]the Cutter near the train station at 1830. Someone will put a penguin on the table, ALUGgers will gather round and chat. Maybe even plan a kit-bringing meeting in Ely. By 2000, we should be at [4]the Fountain. Because we're in pubs, please only bring portable equipment like laptops and handhelds. People at the meeting So far, MJR, Adam, Kirsty and Daniel look fairly certain to be there. If you will be coming to this meeting, please try to say so on the mailing list, so we can be prepared for the numbers! Use [5]the meeting transport page if you can share your journey. Equipment Equipment is brought at your own risk. We strongly suggest that you tag or label your kit. No known thefts have occurred at our meetings, but there is ample scope for going home with the wrong cables, etc. Discussion If you want to discuss this meeting, please [6]use the mailing list. [7]Back to the meetings index * Destinations 1. [8]Join ALUG 2. [9]FAQ 3. [10]Meetings * Local LUGs 1. [11]Peterborough 2. [12]Cambridge * Recent Donors 1. [13]PHP4Hosting 2. [14]Black Cat Networks 3. [15]Martyn Drake 4. [16]Turo Technology LLP 5. [17]O'Reilly UK You may think I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one [18]UK LUGs References 1. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 2. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 3. http://www.ely.angle.uk.com/eatndrink/pubs/cutterinn.cgi 4. http://www.britishpubguide.com/cgi-bin/pub.cgi?results:Cambridgeshire:1147 5. http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?MeetingTransport 6. http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main 7. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/ 8. http://www.alug.org.uk/background/contacts.html 9. http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?AlugFaq 10. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/ 11. http://www.peterboro.lug.org.uk/ 12. http://www.cambridge-lug.org/ 13. http://www.php4hosting.co.uk/ 14. http://www.blackcatnetworks.co.uk/ 15. http://www.drake.org.uk/ 16. http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ 17. http://www.oreilly.co.uk/ 18. http://www.lug.org.uk/ --__--__-- Message: 3 To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 11:38:21 +0100 (BST) From: mjr(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk (MJ Ray) Subject: [Alug Announce]Fwd: [Alug]Weekly IRC reminder Just a reminder for newsletter subscribers. From: Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> Subject: [Alug]Weekly IRC reminder Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 06:00:01 +0100 This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!) _______________________________________________ main(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://www.alug.org.uk/ http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above! --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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[Alug]Norwich sunday meeting 28th September 2pm
by Syd Hancock 18 Aug '03

18 Aug '03

The next Norwich sunday meeting will be on the 28th September at the Nelson Room, Billy Bluelight pub, city end of Hall road, 2-6 pm. I've booked the room unseen but AFAIK it should be fine - will take a look at it once back in Norwich next week. Syd

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[Alug]Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 18 Aug '03

18 Aug '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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[Alug]Re: Update on story of Microsoft charging schools too much.
by Ben Norcutt 17 Aug '03

17 Aug '03

The bit that worries me about this story actually working in IT in a School is that it doesn't say that the Government will bulk buy licences it says the Government will bulk buy computer equipment with the licences to save Schools the licence costs. The Government bulk buying IT equipment is a joke. I also fail to see where they get this £70 from ours is £36.63 and even if we added the couple of titles not on our agreement this certainly wouldn't more than double the price. Cheers, Ben Norcutt

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[Alug]apologies (perhaps)
by BenE 17 Aug '03

17 Aug '03

I made the mistake last night of looking in my sent mail folder which automatically sorts any mail according to my filters, so all my mail I've sent here gets put in my 'alug' folder. Today, I accidently managed to send all the outgoing mail that has been frozen by exim in the past. So...I can't tell whether the deluge of mail from me in my alug folder is because of my messing up last night or today. If the rest of you have received a lot of old mail from me today then I apologise and I hope it won't happen again since I'm installing debian tmrw (well, morphix) and that should be better configured (hopefully). If you have no idea what I'm talking about then...ermm....apologies for this bit of spam... *bows* BenE --------------------------------- Love is all I bring, in me crass t-shirt 'n' ting

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[Alug]PsiLinux (Psion)
by MJ Ray 15 Aug '03

15 Aug '03

I think this was also mentioned yesterday: "PsiLinux is a project to port the unix-like operating system Linux to a group of palmtops produced by Psion, and related machines such as the Geofox One. At present, working linux systems can be installed." http://linux-7110.sourceforge.net/ Anyone using it? -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ jabber://slef@jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ Thought: Edwin A Abbott wrote about trouble with Windows in 1884

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[Alug]Revolution OS at Elmswell on the 17th
by abower＠thebowery.co.uk 15 Aug '03

15 Aug '03

Hi people, Can I ask that if you are going to come to this meeting (or are just thinking about it) can you let me know so we have an idea of numbers? Thanks Adam -- jabberid = quinophex(a)jabber.earth.li AFFS || http://www.affs.org.uk/ || Not a filesystem

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[Alug]Announce digest, Vol 2 #12 - 1 msg
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 15 Aug '03

15 Aug '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. Fwd: Linux jobs (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:41:39 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Alug Announce]Fwd: Linux jobs linuxjobs(a)lists.lug.org.uk http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/linuxjobs Any job-related enquiries sent to lug.org.uk enquiry addresses will get forwarded there and not sent to lugmasters. The first post is a message received the other day from a recruitment agent looking for 6 people to fill positions for linux gurus & trainers. http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/linuxjobs/2003-August/000000.html --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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[Alug]Disk imaging
by Paul Tansom 15 Aug '03

15 Aug '03

Anyone got any experiences with disk imaging software? I've used Norton Ghost in the past (didn't like it at all, but that was quite a long time ago and to be honest I can't really remember why - may have been the fact that you had to license a copy for every machine you used it on, so to clone 9 machines from a master required 10 licenses - as I said, it's a while ago now). Currently I'm using Drive Image from Powerquest, but as that doesn't support (spit) XP I'm going to have to upgrade. I've been looking at Norton Ghost (v8), Powerquest Drive Image (v7) and Active Disk Image. So far the last one is favourite as it is compact enough to fit on a floppy and doesn't mess around with GUIs and Windows installs. I'm also a little confused as to the suitability of the other two which talk about automated backups from Windows etc.. In particular Drive Copy looks to be the appropriate product from Powerquest, but Drive Image is the one that supports XP. I've just remembered the PartImage software for Linux, so I'll have to dig the URL out and take a look, but thought I'd ask for practical experiences since I have a brief respite before laying out any dosh. -- Paul Tansom: - contact paul(a)aptanet.com for more information Internet and Intranet Solutions -- http://www.aptanet.com/

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[Alug]Fwd: HiTec C Compiler
by Ian Bell 13 Aug '03

13 Aug '03

Just sent this to FSF ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: HiTec C Compiler Date: Wednesday 13 Aug 2003 5:16 pm From: Ian Bell <ian(a)redtommo.com> To: gnu(a)gnu.org The follwing url refers to HiTec 'new components' they have developed to allow the GNU compiler to compile code for the C166 microcontroller. Can you confirm this complies with the GPL? <quote> 2. SORTING OUT THE CONFUSION ABOUT GNU-C COMPILER LICENSING FOR C166 AND TRICORE How does GNU licensing really work? http://www.hitex.co.uk/newsletter <\quote>any Thanks Ian M -------------------------------------------------------

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[Alug]Suggestion: 3 month plan
by MJ Ray 13 Aug '03

13 Aug '03

It seems that to get some publicity (magazines, some what's on guides) for a formal meeting, we need to agree date and venue three months in advance. Can we do this? Who can keep track of this? Should we do this? I think it's totally impractical to do for the social meetings, though. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ jabber://slef@jabber.at

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[Alug]Distro Survey
by Keith Watson 13 Aug '03

13 Aug '03

Finally got organised enough to collate the replies to date. So far I've got 12 here on my UKFSN account (there are a couple more that were sent to my work email a/c and I'll add them in later). So it seems that 8 of the responders used a single distro, 2 of you had 2 distros installed, one had 3 distros installed and one brave soul has 5 distros (counting Knoppix, etc). Most of the responders had at least 2 machines with GNU/Linux running on them, 3 of you had 5 boxen set up and one had 7. Only me and one other person had a single system to play with. Debian seemed to be the most popular distro with the respondents. In all 8 of you said it was your distro of choice. 2 of you preferred Red Hat, one LFS, one Slackware and one Mandrake. Other distros you also use for various reasons are; Red Hat, Slackware, SUSE, Gentoo, OpenZaurus (is this a distro?), Smoothwall, Knoppix and Morphix. 9 respondents have dual boot set-ups with Windows and there were 3 hard core purists who win the RMS award! :o) So in summary based on the limited sample; Debian is the most commonly installed distro, mostly on at least 2 machines and usually dual boot with Windows. Maybe we should have a web page with these figures displayed in some sort of tabular form and also a standing invite for people to email me with their own setups. I could collate them from time to time and update the page. Keith ------------------------- But still, it moves! - Galileo

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[Alug]GCC and the C166
by Ian Bell 13 Aug '03

13 Aug '03

I append a copy of an article on Hitec's web site concerning their 'new components' for gcc that allow it to compile for the C166 micro. Any comments? Some Myths Dispelled About GNU-C For C166 (and Tricore)…. The C166 has two excellent "commercial" C compilers from Keil and Tasking. There is however a third compiler from Hightec EDV that is based on the GNU-C but which costs about the same as the two well known offerings. However there is a widespread belief that as this compiler is based on GNU-C, it is "free" and some have complained that Hightec's £2000 licence charge is unreasonable and not in the spirit of the Free Software Foundation. As a result, some people are using copies of the Hightec GNU-C for C166 downloaded from various websites or circulated by email. In fact the licence position with the GNU-C for C166 is that the parts defined by Hightec to allow C166 code generation are proprietary and therefore are chargeable. This is (apparently) within the scope of the GNU T&C's and thus Hightec's work is not available from GNU free of charge. Indeed the first line of the GNU public licence says "free is not free" and here, "free" means unimpeded or unbounded rather than without charge. Thus it is acceptable to make money from GNU-derived software like the GNU-C compiler. Programmers are not obliged to put into the public domain new components they have developed for GNU compilers. It is only changes to the core of the compiler that must be made public and lodged with GNU. Thus Hightec's C166 code generator and front-end processor are chargeable. Therefore people using the Hightec GNU-C without a Hightec licence are not strictly legal. Hightec to some extent are doing what Red Hat and Montevista have done with Linux i.e. take loads of disparate pieces of software and make a shrink-wrapped, complete embedded toolchain, in this case for C166 (and Tricore). If you have any queries on this, please email us! Ian

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[Alug]Elmswell film
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 13 Aug '03

13 Aug '03

>Hi people, > >> >Can I ask that if you are going to come to this meeting (or are just thinking >about it) can you let me know so we have an idea of numbers? > >Thanks >Adam I can't make this one, I'm away on holiday from this weekend. Enjoy! Jen

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[Alug]Announce digest, Vol 2 #11 - 1 msg
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 12 Aug '03

12 Aug '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. LOCAL: GNU/Linux/Suffolk/Film showing, 17 August 2003 (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:02:06 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Alug Announce]LOCAL: GNU/Linux/Suffolk/Film showing, 17 August 2003 [1]ALUG [2]Map Meeting 2003.10 : Elmswell, Suffolk Sunday 17 August 2003 Plan for the meeting This meeting is for a screening of the film [3]Revolution OS. Doors will open about 2pm and the film will start about half an hour later. Please keep checking this page for updates. How to get there For directions, please see [4]the venue information page. Use [5]the meeting transport page if you want to share your journey. People at the meeting So far, Adam, Kirsty, Big John, MJR and Rob are known to be there. If you will also be coming to this meeting, please email [6]Adam, so we can be prepared for the numbers! Equipment Equipment is brought at your own risk. We strongly suggest that you tag or label your kit. No known thefts have occurred at our meetings, but there is ample scope for going home with the wrong cables, etc. Be sure to bring all appropriate power cables etc. An extra extension lead will also be a good idea. Discussion If you want to discuss this meeting, please [7]use the mailing list. [8]Back to the meetings index * Destinations 1. [9]Join ALUG 2. [10]FAQ 3. [11]Meetings * Local LUGs 1. [12]Peterborough 2. [13]Cambridge * Recent Donors 1. [14]PHP4Hosting 2. [15]Black Cat Networks 3. [16]Martyn Drake 4. [17]Turo Technology LLP 5. [18]O'Reilly UK You may think I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one [19]UK LUGs References 1. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 2. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 3. http://www.revolution-os.com/ 4. http://www.alug.org.uk/venues/elmswell.html 5. http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?MeetingTransport 6. mailto:abower@thebowery.co.uk 7. http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main 8. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/ 9. http://www.alug.org.uk/background/contacts.html 10. http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?AlugFaq 11. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/ 12. http://www.peterboro.lug.org.uk/ 13. http://www.cambridge-lug.org/ 14. http://www.php4hosting.co.uk/ 15. http://www.blackcatnetworks.co.uk/ 16. http://www.drake.org.uk/ 17. http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ 18. http://www.oreilly.co.uk/ 19. http://www.lug.org.uk/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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[Alug]Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 11 Aug '03

11 Aug '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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[Alug]Athlon 2200+ chip FS
by Dan Beimborn 10 Aug '03

10 Aug '03

Anyone on the list want my used AMD Athlon XP 2200+ & a nice Tai Sol cooler? You'll need a little fresh grease for the heatsink contact, but that's it. Just removed from my system working to replace with a faster one. £30 OBO DB

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[Alug]About Gentoo Linux?
by Edenyard 10 Aug '03

10 Aug '03

I've just read something on Daniel James' 'Linux User Bulletin' that's got me thinking. There was mention of Gentoo Linux and it said that Gentoo was 'self-building'. Does that mean that, when one installs Gentoo, all the packages get automatically compiled for the processor that's actually in the machine, rather than defaulting to a 386 or something? Does that also mean that it takes an absolute age to install? And is it really much of an improvement over, say, my favourite Slackware? Sorry if these are dumb questions, but to a Bear of Very Little Brain (TM), it's perplexing and interesting all at the same time - maybe a bit like a jar of honey whose lid won't come off.... (Oh dear - guess what I've been reading lately?) Any enlightenment, please, anyone? Cheers, Gerald.

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[Alug]Riddle me this
by BenE 09 Aug '03

09 Aug '03

I've very nearly gotten my zaurus to link with my PC (they're pinging each other now), and the next step is to get qtopia desktop installed. Unfortunately, it's only available as an RPM and I'm strictly a compile from source person. So, I have 2 choices (that I can see) 1: install RPM 2: extract the files from the RPM using the program that was mentioned on here last week I think. I am leaning towards option 2 but I'm unsure about the dependencies. Is there a way I can work out where the various dependencies it needs should be? Is it just a matter of running it and working out what symlinks I should place where based on the error messages or is there a nicer option? cheers, BenE --------------------------------- Love is all I bring, in me crass t-shirt 'n' ting

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[Alug]laptops and batteries
by syd 08 Aug '03

08 Aug '03

Not specifically linux - hope no-one is bothered by that. You people are my front-line support for any compter advice. I've just bought a T-series Thinkpad. It has Lithium-Ion batteries. AFAIR these do not have the 'memory' effect so does that really mean in practice that it is perfectly OK to give short booster charges no matter what the state of charge/discharge? Also, I think I've seen somewhere that keeping the laptop on mains power withthe battery installed will lead to reduced battery life. Is this the case? TIA Syd

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[Alug]re: Linux for *everyone*
by James Edward John Taylor 08 Aug '03

08 Aug '03

Long windy email which took me a while to type and then probably dosnt make much sense: Brief Summary: I dont believe Open Source software has to be userfriendly. I feel **VERY** strongly that the programmer has the right to be "free" in their programming and make non-user friendly interfaces IF THEY SO WISH, and that the dicussion over "they SHOULD" make userfriendly or "people should" is at basically wrong, because they are getting a free ride out of the software that the programmer probbably has a lot more better stuff to be doing. This is not a(nother) personal attack at Ben, but just the statement that his argument "I dont have time to learn something to do something like that because I have "more important" stuff to do" (where more important is whatever his or her REAL job, school work, etc) I am reversing to use against him. "Programmers dont have time to cope with the "whims" of those people who make a preference to do non-really harsh techinal stuff, becasue we have something "more important" to do" (where more important is whatever new toy we've just bought is). Did I stress that I feel VERY strongly about this. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And for the full bloated boring bit: I should first admit here and now that I winge when a config file is ... wierd or difficult to understand, and I also admit that I ask for help in it.... Knowing when to ask for help is always a brilliant trait in my opinion. Im going to assume here that I was in the IRC discussion. I think I was, I think I stormed out of it to Cambridge. Hell, I had to go... I think the discussion went along the lines of: ben: "theres no gui, this is too hard because i dont understand it/dont have time to understand it/dont want to understand it" (note this is not a dig at ben, all three options are perfectly acceptable. I dont understand the XWidget functions.... i dont want to understand them, so dont want to waste time learning them) us: "There isnt a function because no-ones written one... everyone who has needed one just learnt how to do it, and then couldnt bearsed to write a gui, becasue they could do it and didnt need a gui after that" ben: "but thats wrong" us: "no, its not, because we know how to do it"... and so on The fact that I had written another (command line) script which did this function, and tied it into a webpage was irrelavant, no one had "released" and "packaged" one for "simple" and "easy" installer. So perhaps we where being pigheaded. But that dosnt stop us being wrong. The title of this discussion is "Linux for everyone". But I disagree. Thats not what people mean in this discussion at all. The arguement is really about what do the people who are actually programming have to do, and what the people are gettng the free ride want them to do. Becasue we're not talking about Linux here. We where talking about Fluxbox. Flux box isnt linux. You dont need linux to run fluxbox. So perhaps im just nitpicking the title of the topic, but I dont think so, I think im nitpicking at OpenSource programmers and advogatoists in general. I support Open Source as is the solution to a lot of my problems. Im happy and proud to release the majority of my source code into the public domain, I really do like the idea of open specifications and industry wide standards that are kept to and maintained. But I dont like the idea that people can turn around and tell me that im doing something "wrong". If I want to pass data between two computers in a completly propietry way, then I should be allowed to, open source or not. What has that got to do with GUI? well its just another thing being "difficult" or should i really say "unknown". Thats freedom isnt it? Sure, you might say I have to have freedom to do things with connection and making it easy for people to connect, but perhaps I dont want to make life easier for you programmers. Perhaps my methods provide abetter service in terms of processor speed, or memory allocation or whatever argument I'm using. Im allowed to, its my program after all. And perhaps at this time, I cant expect people to conform to my propietry standards. But then again, perhaps I can, I can point to several case examples where a client turns round to us and says we'll offer you this data in an electronic fomat in this formatt "blat" and we have to parse it. Its either that or type it all in by hand (which is what we do before we set up the electronic link). We dont get any choice, we just get down and do it. - but we're techis. And thats what we're paid to do. Perhaps Open Source is just too policial. Perhaps you're stuck between a bunch of idealistics who would kill people who defie the GPL license and a bunch of programmers who just couldnt care less as long as you can use the code to solve your problem. At the end of the day. If my boss comes in and says "I need to do ... **THIS** then I will automatically look at how its done now, and how it works. If my program I write for him infringes a patent established four years ago, how would I know? Would I care? no. Nobody else would know about it, I wouldnt ever get into trouble unless I started distributing the code." You people who are sitting there saying "its hard to use, and therefore people wont use it, Do I care? No. I am not one of those people, I do not benifit by them using my code. if they WISH to use my code and they dont know how, then they cancontact me and I might help them, or they could pay a local person to install it for them and configure it. You dont do your own car servicing do you (ignore that comment those people in here that do (iDunno for starters))? And you guys are probably the techincal elite. Why expect non-techincal people who dont [want] to understand to be able to do it. Even if you give them a "gui". Its not my problem, i dont have to solve it. And thats what OS is all about isnt it. You solve your problems and release the fixes so other people dont have them. You dont go hunting out problems to solve. (this is only in a specific bug sense - all of us do go "hm i wonder if i can....", but we dont go "oh lets just see what the latest bug report for EVERY package is and then fix it"). Open Source does **NOT** have to be for everyone. Anyone suggesting that it should, completly, without reservation, dosnt have any idea of the scale of the system and should run back to the saftey of their management course. Sure, write your gui if you want. But noone should ever start going round saying "you have to write a gui otherwise im not going to use it" because we'll just say "... ouch im hurting inside, ... no really" Remember, we're effectivly getting a free ride - **NOBODY** will stop you making a GUI for anything. **ALL** of us will support you. **MOST** of us would help you. We'll be happy to help solve the little naggliy bugs like "why dosnt this bit of regex work" and soon. HEll, if you start, you'll probably be the momentum to get a couple of us to finish it off for you, which is what you really want. I for one, will not be changing the way I program to be more userfriendly. I dont write user friendly programs. I dont really write programs which have users to interface into. Installing them are long ardious tasks. 99.9% of the population or more will not benifit from it. But for a user, any user, who dosnt *WANT* and i emphasise want here because if you did want to understand you wouldnt *MIND* can start an arugment that its not userfriendly. Sure, the guy who wrote it could ask for comments, or ask for ideas for improvements, but for people to comelong and say "no, thats pants becuase it is difficult" is (in my opinion) selfrighteous and pigheaded.

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