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RE: [Alug]Costs
by Adam Bower 15 May '03

15 May '03

> as one who no longer neeeds to seek paid employment, I can > see no reason > why you should bear the cost of producing and posting CD's to > me, for me > to pass on in the hope of evangelical success for free > software. I'll pay > your production costs, or John's, I would like the latest > edition though. At the end of the day it is probably more costly to arrange me getting cash for doing these CDs than just doing them. If I do send people a CD in future I think I may ask that they make an donation to a charity or something. A spindle of blank CD-Rs is so cheap now (works out to about 20p a disc, and you can get some as cheap as 10p a disc if you get overprinted discs) and if i post them it costs 42p to send 3CDs, that you are looking at a cost of around a quid to send the bits of Debian testing that people need(I recycle envelopes to send them out to people so they are free) and I do this so infrequently its not worth sorting out the cash. So from now on if i send people CDs then they can give a small donation to a local charity instead. If I end up doing lots of CDs then I will reconsider this point in the future. Adam

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[Alug]Costs
by John Seago 15 May '03

15 May '03

Adam, as one who no longer neeeds to seek paid employment, I can see no reason why you should bear the cost of producing and posting CD's to me, for me to pass on in the hope of evangelical success for free software. I'll pay your production costs, or John's, I would like the latest edition though. -- John Seago

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[Alug]Knoppix CD
by John 15 May '03

15 May '03

Adam Bower, on the 9th of May, wrote: > Oh and if people want Debian testing CDs (or stable) or Knoppix let me > know. I'd like a Knoppix CD for someone I trying to convert, who, as he uses a work provided laptop can't repartition and insert OS of choice. Will you be at Syleham on Sunday? Would it be easier for you to post the CD? Please let me know the costs and I can send/bring you a cheque. -- John Seago

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Re: [Alug]Introduction of GNU/Linux to Bourne School
by Ben Francis 14 May '03

14 May '03

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Mr. C is downloading Knoppix to give it a try but it looks like we might be using RedHat for workstations and put a little bit of effort to get Debian installed for servers. We're also looking into other pieces of software mentioned that could be useful. The machines we'll be installing on are all pretty much identical, maybe a different chipset here and there so once we get one working the others shouldn't be too difficult. There's been a few individual offers of help which I'm sure we'll be taking up as we're bound to come stuck at some point. Now if you'll excuse me while I start to make my banners saying "Microsoft Free Zone" and some giant penguins to decorate the walls with! The machines that we want to install on should become available around June/July time, so watch this space! Plus I hope to make it to some LUG meetings after my exams. Thanks again Ben Francis

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[Alug]Sundays meeting who's comming then?
by John Woodard 14 May '03

14 May '03

So far it looks like its just me on Sunday for the meeting! So I'll take my copy of Unix for BO sufferers and a flask of sad and lonely juice and sit there bored then. :-) Come on reveal your self to the ALUG masses if you plan to come. If you're not planning to come change your mind, you just might get to hear one of MJR's excellent talks! 2:00 - 6:00 at Syleham Village Hall http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/meeting6.html Cheers, BJ

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[Alug]Introduction of GNU/Linux to Bourne School
by Ben Francis 14 May '03

14 May '03

Dear LUGers I'm been on the ALUG and PLUG mailing lists for some time now (watching and listening) and I'm a sixth form student at Bourne Grammar School. The school is seriously considering setting up a room of around 10 dedicated linux machines in our IT suite which will be a welcome addition to our current NT/2000 network of around 200 PCs. The Director, Mr C. has tried to install Debian at home but has come across the same problems as I did, both of us being newbies to GNU/Linux. We've set up one box in the school with Redhat 8.0 which worked fine and can see the network, but at the moment is sitting there doing nothing (mainly due to my exams). The primary aim is to introduce Open Source to the school on some old 233Mhz PIIs that will be available to use when we (eventually) get a new batch of PCs before the end of the academic year. But if we're going to be able to justify removing the "friendly world of microsoft" from an entire IT room the machines will have to be usable by everyone in the school for at least some things. They'll ideally need to access their existing Windows home directories, shared printers etc. and at the least be able to use them for word processing with Open Office and web browsing. We're also looking at the possibility of using GNU/Linux for file servers, print servers or even an internal web server running Apache (so I can do PHP programming! yey!) We're still looking at lots of different distros but it's currently looking like we'll either be going for RedHat or Debian. I'm open to either but really want to get to know Debian which seems the geekier of the two :-) Firstly I was considering buying a book, either for me or through the school to get me/us started, and wondered if you had any recommendations. I liked the look of "Learning Debian GNU/Linux" [http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565927052/qid%3D1052832905/026-24 92735-5301226] but the reviews on Amazon seem rather negative. It comes with and is written for Debian 2.1 - should we be using Debian 3.0? Secondly I'd like to ask if anyone in either ALUG or PLUG would be willing to give us any help. We'd LOVE to have someone come in and help us out and if someone would be willing to do a workshop style session for a group of students on either how to install Linux or the basics of using it that could also be an option. There's always the possibility of trying to arrange holding an actual LUG meeting with the school as the venue (?), I've seen requests for a LUG meeting in Bourne on the lists before.- (At school, we have power sockets, a LAN and a dedicated 2 meg internet connection to play with. And round the corner from a few pubs if you are so inclined, what more could we ask for?) If I can prove that Linux can easily be set up to run side by side with our Micro$oft dominated network with no real problems, then there's a real possibility of the Linux liberation to spread to other parts of the school, and in the longrun saving the school a LOT of money on software licences. I'm open to any ideas and support in my quest for Open Source in school would be greatly appreciated! Regards Ben "tola" Francis PS. thanks for reading my novel length email! hippygeek.co.uk - me bourne-grammar.lincs.sch.uk -school imen.org.uk -us tolagrafix.co.uk -work ---there is no spoon---

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[Alug]Automatic Log-out Program
by Dan Hatton 13 May '03

13 May '03

I'd like to know the name of a program that is to u?xterm as autolog is to virtual terminal, i.e. that listens for key-presses, and closes the u?xterm if there are none for just over two hours.� It's annoying me by closing my uxterms in the middle of large (ftp)|(smtp)|(apt) transactions, and I can't stop it running without knowing what it's called. Any suggestions, please? -- Ta Dan Hatton <http://www.bib.hatton.btinternet.co.uk/dan/>

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Re: [Alug]Routers
by me＠davidfairey.org.uk 12 May '03

12 May '03

> You should look carefully at the different ISPs before jumping in, as not > all are created equal. Start with http://www.adslguide.org. Avoid anyone > who wants you to sign up for a year, and (this is an opinion) anyone who > insists on bundling a USB modem. Consider going with someone who offers > fixed IP addresses; it doesn\'t have to cost more and you can plonk down a > public server anytime you like. Go for a \'wires only\' service, though there > is an advantage in getting the router from your ISP; they\'re more likely to > talk to you when things go wrong (as they do). I would suggest Andrews&Arnold (www.aaisp.net) for they do support Linux users and supply a number of fixed IP addresses free of charge. Although they are more expensive. They also sell routers which AFAIK come automatically configured for your connection. D.

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Re: [Alug]Sundays meeting who's comming then?
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 12 May '03

12 May '03

>So I'll take my copy of Unix for BO sufferers and a flask of sad and lonely >juice and sit there bored then. :-) Hey, just cause you'll be sad and lonely doesn' t mean your poor juice has to be too ;-) I've got a new bike so can't wait to ride it over your way - depends if I'm going to see my folks or not though this weekend. Jenny (ZXR400, in response to everyone's unbridled curiosity ;-))

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Re: RE: [Alug]Sundays meeting who's comming then?
by jamie.french＠talk21.com 12 May '03

12 May '03

I should be there, though still awaiting for my pass to be signed by the wife :) Any topics for this meeting? Take Care, Jamie > > From: John Woodard [mailto:mail@johnwoodard.co.uk] > > So far it looks like its just me on Sunday for the meeting! > >I /should/ be there, but am going to be busy the day before at the AFFSAC >(<a Target='_new' Href='http://talk21.btopenworld.com/redirect.html?http://www.affs.org.uk/)'>http://www.affs.org.uk/)</a> so /may/ not make it. > >Adam > >_______________________________________________ >main(a)lists.alug.org.uk ><a Target='_new' Href='http://talk21.btopenworld.com/redirect.html?http://www.alug.org.uk/'>http://www.alug.org.uk/</a> ><a Target='_new' Href='http://talk21.btopenworld.com/redirect.html?http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailma…'>http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main</a> >Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above! Best Regards, Jamie French -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com

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RE: [Alug]Sundays meeting who's comming then?
by Adam Bower 12 May '03

12 May '03

> From: John Woodard [mailto:mail@johnwoodard.co.uk] > So far it looks like its just me on Sunday for the meeting! I /should/ be there, but am going to be busy the day before at the AFFSAC (http://www.affs.org.uk/) so /may/ not make it. Adam

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[Alug]Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 12 May '03

12 May '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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[Alug]FW: Penguicon
by Keith Watson 11 May '03

11 May '03

From: Andy Potter; > > Keith, > > I thought this might appeal to you: http://penguicon.sourceforge.net/ > > Andy > One of my colleagues sent me this link and I thought it would be of interest to the list :o) Keith ____________ CONSULT, v.i. To seek another's disapproval of a course already decided on. Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary

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RE: [Alug]Routers
by Adam Bower 10 May '03

10 May '03

> From: me(a)davidfairey.org.uk [mailto:me@davidfairey.org.uk] > I would suggest Andrews&Arnold (www.aaisp.net) for they do support > Linux users and supply a number of fixed IP addresses free of charge. > Although they are more expensive. They also sell routers which AFAIK > come automatically configured for your connection. They also charge a fairly hefty connection fee but the good sides are they made BT fix our phone line that was not suitable for ADSL (BT said we could never have adsl as we were too far from the exchange and other lies), replied to my one and only tech query in record time (i.e. out of hours!) and setup the reverse DNS I asked for about 2 minutes afterwards, gave me an ipv6 connection along with the ipv4, got us online in 3 days (from initial order to connection!), support linux (and any OS you like if it has an tcp/ip stack and can connect to adsl then they will endeavor to help you out), they also gave us a useful setup book with all of our connection details in which will be most useful when something goes wrong and we can't remember our password or server names or something. In all, I can't fault them. This is definetly a case of "you get what you pay for" I will definetly be buying adsl connection services from them in the future. Adam

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[Alug]could Barry Samuels please mail me his address?!
by Adam Bower 09 May '03

09 May '03

Sorry about the spam but I can't get hold of him directly and I have his Debian CDs sitting here, unfortunatly I have lost his address! Oh and if people want Debian testing CDs (or stable) or Knoppix let me know. Thanks Adam -- jabberid = quinophex(a)jabber.earth.li AFFS || http://www.affs.org.uk/ || Not a filesystem

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[Alug]Announce: ALUG 2003.6 Meeting 18th May @ Syleham
by John Woodard 08 May '03

08 May '03

Next meeting: Syleham Village Hall Sunday 18th 2:00pm - 6:00pm Venue details: http://www.alug.org.uk/venues/syleham.html If you are coming please add your name to the list with any help requests. Normal disclaimers apply, any kit you bring is your responsibility, it's a good idea to mark it to avoid confusion. I will be hosting as per usual at Syleham. This venue charges us a small fee so we will do the normal whip round to cover the cost. The bar will be open from 1:00pm for anyone who fancies a pre-meeting drink while putting up tables etc. Please add your name and any details you think relevant to the list on the wiki page at http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?May%2018th. I will announce to relevant newsgroups, if anybody is on the CAMLUG list can you post it there please or any other lists you think might be appropriate. Cheers, BJ

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RE: [Alug]HP scanner 5300C
by Adam Bower 07 May '03

07 May '03

> From: F J Brooks [mailto:fred@redgrave.screaming.net] > I am a complete newbie and have recently installed SuSE 8.1. > Has anyone been able to make an HP Scanjet 5300C scanner work > with SuSE 8.1? This guy claims to have done so http://members.tripod.com/~mjallen/linuxscanner.html this is a good sign, his link is to the main sane webpage. > the FAQs about SANE hp-backend. I've consulted several Sane Those words "hp-backend" led me to do a little digging on the web. If you visit http://www.mostang.com/sane/sane-mfgs.html#HEWLETT-PACKARD (the SANE website supported-hardware list) if you scroll down a bit it says the 5300C uses the sane-avision backend, not the "sane-hp" (which is what I am guessing you have looked for hence you saying "hp-backend") There is a couple of links from that page also. One that may be the most use is the webpage for the avision backend http://drocklinux.dyndns.org/rene/avision/index.html Anyhow let us know how you get on. If you get stuck with this then please post back then I may be able to suggest a bit more to try and fix it. Adam

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[Alug]HP scanner 5300C
by F J Brooks 07 May '03

07 May '03

I am a complete newbie and have recently installed SuSE 8.1. Has anyone been able to make an HP Scanjet 5300C scanner work with SuSE 8.1? I've been all round SANE - and out the other side. I've tried the articles in the April 2003 issue of Linux Journal, and in the December 2002 issue of Linux Format. I've downloaded the Yolux tutorial : Scanners and Linux, and the FAQs about SANE hp-backend. I've consulted several Sane pages from the SuSE manual. I can make none of them work - at least partly because they do not give step-by-step instructions. They're all so varied and inconsistent: one moment giving actual commands, the next speaking in generalities, such as: 'To build the backends package, it's a simple case of unpacking the tarball and performing the usual configure/make incantation.' and: '...it's time to choose the backend driver. For most scanners you can make educated guesses from the SANE website supported-hardware list.' [As our American cousins say: 'Excuse me!? Come again!?] As a newbie, such 'instructions leave me, not only cold, but fumingly frustrated. Can anyone help, please? BTW it seems to be de rigeur to add a sign-off. Perhaps I could run this up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes it: Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana Fred

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[Alug]Councils and Linux
by Tarquin Mills 07 May '03

07 May '03

Hello, sometime appear on the IRC meetings as Shadowtlx and have just rejoined this mailing list. Below is a question I asked Norwich City Council. Question. In this time of council cuts and cash shortages, how much money is the council spending on Microsoft software (e.g. MS Windows, MS Office etc)? Including the cost of Windows when bought as part of new systems. As an alternative, the council could use free software. Free operating systems could be used instead of MS Windows such as Linux, NetBSD etc. These OSes are of a commercial standard and because they are open source are available on a large number of hardware platforms. This means they could remove windows from their computers without needing to change the computers, in fact Linux is more efficient so old computers can be used for longer. Linux (the third most popular PC OS and second most popular server OS) is more secure than Windows, OpenBSD is a version of BSD with security a top concern. All these OS are immune to Windows viruses. Linux is a clone of Unix (an OS that has been in existence since 1969). The open system Unix (is produced by several manufacturers) and along with Windows are the 2 main OS in use. Using Linux instead of Windows and commercial Unix will unite computers leading to standardisation. For web browsing there is Mozilla (an open source version of Netscape). For office software there is OpenOffice.org 1, KDEoffice etc. You get all this for no cost, what is more the software has a licence that stops people charging for it in the future e.g. the GPL. Supplemental Question. Are free OSes and there apps being trialled by the council? By adopting Linux the council would be helping to put Norwich and Norfolk into a more modern outlook when it comes to IT. If the council insists on using commercial operating systems then why not have local OS such as the one developed in East Anglia. RISC OS computers are more enviromently friendly. "Office software is a problem for local authorities because of the expense", says Socitm national secretary Bob Griffith. Unilever is migrating its IT infrastructure to Linux. The move will contribute to a cost saving of 66 million pounds. "Everytime we put in Linux, we are amazed and surprised at it's speed and the reliability with which we can run it." said Unilever. In answer to the main question they said they will pass my suggests on the companies running the councils IT in a 15 year outsourceing contract. During the asking of the supplemental question I tried to press them into giving a figure on M$ costs, but all they would say is that there contractors said the cost of finding out was disproportionate. So Norwich City Council does not know the costs of services of one of it's major suppliers. I intended to ask Norfolk County Council the same questions. -- Tarquin Mills Reboot Movement (An Anti-Wintel Campaign) http://www.planet14.sonow4u.co.uk/comp/reboot/

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[Alug]Thursday evening meeting Norwich
by Syd Hancock 05 May '03

05 May '03

The meeting yesterday evening at the Forum in Norwich seemed to go very well. Nine people in attendance and lots of chat both social and technical. Always good to put faces to names and to meet a few new people. Present were Keith, Ian, Graham, Colin, Jonathan, Mark, Syd, Bill and an anonymous stuffed penguin plus the chap who didn't like the beer - sorry I didn't catch your name, you can kick me next time :-) General opinion seemed to be to do it again next month - perhaps some more discussion on list needed re possible choices of venue and date. For example, how would people feel about meeting on a monday even though it clashes with IRC? Would missing irc once a month, for those who participate, be a major problem? Would a venue where kit could be set up be better or was the sit-and-chat atmosphere of the Forum bar preferred? Of course we can always try a few different venues over the first few months - I'm a great believer in trying things out. Anyway, must dash, train to catch to Cornwall. Very interested to know what anyone else thought about the meet. Syd

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[Alug]Installing on to Mac g4
by James A Hayes 05 May '03

05 May '03

Hi all, I have recently bought a copy of Mandrake 9.1 and would like to install it on my Mac as it is a PPC programme - but l am not linux competent, although open source is where l want to go. Anyway would appreciate some help. james

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[Alug]Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 05 May '03

05 May '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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[Alug]LOCAL: ALUG Meeting, Norwich, 8pm, Thu 1 May 2003
by MJ Ray 04 May '03

04 May '03

[1]ALUG [2]Map Meeting 2003.5 : Norwich: The Forum bar 1 May 2003 Plan for the meeting Roughly, as follows: We will meet up from 8pm onwards for an informal evening get-together for anyone interested in GNU/Linux. NB: This venue is not suitable for anything more than portable equipment (laptops, palmtops, etc). How to get there For directions, please see [3]the venue information page. People at the meeting So far, Syd and Keith are confirmed, while Graham and MJR are suspected. Surprisingly low numbers so far, given how much interest there was in a Norwich meeting. If you will also be coming to this meeting, please try to say so on the mailing list, so we can be prepared for the numbers! Equipment Equipment is brought at your own risk. We strongly suggest that you tag or label your kit. No known thefts have occurred at our meetings, but there is ample scope for going home with the wrong cables, etc. Be sure to bring all appropriate power cables etc. An extra extension lead will also be a good idea. So far, for this meeting, we know of: MJR A small fluffy penguin to sit on the table, so that you can find us. Discussion If you want to discuss this meeting, please [4]use the mailing list. [5]Back to the meetings index * Destinations 1. [6]Join ALUG 2. [7]FAQ 3. [8]Meetings * Local LUGs 1. [9]Peterborough 2. [10]Cambridge * Recent Donors 1. [11]PHP4Hosting 2. [12]Black Cat Networks 3. [13]Martyn Drake 4. [14]Turo Technology LLP You may think I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one [15]UK LUGs References 1. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 2. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 3. http://www.alug.org.uk/venues/forum.html 4. http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main 5. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/ 6. http://www.alug.org.uk/background/contacts.html 7. http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?AlugFaq 8. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/ 9. http://www.peterboro.lug.org.uk/ 10. http://www.cam-lug.org.uk/ 11. http://www.php4hosting.co.uk/ 12. http://www.blackcatnetworks.co.uk/ 13. http://www.drake.org.uk/ 14. http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ 15. http://www.lug.org.uk/

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[Alug]Debian Install
by Ian Bell 03 May '03

03 May '03

I now have debian installed on my other partition and have managed to get X working under Gnome but not KDE. Unfortunately the installer ignored my rh7.3 on the other partition and overwrote the MBR - good job I had made a boot disk. Anyway, tried to mod the redhat lilo.conf to boot debian too but I can't get it to work. boot is /dev/hda in both cases. rh root is /dev/hda1 and debian is /dev/hda2. I can only have one root statement in the preamble block and lilo does not like path names starting /dev in the image line. So how to do this? Ian

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Re: [Alug]Unfriendly A7N266-VM motherboard - was rtl8139 aha moment
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 02 May '03

02 May '03

Adam Bower wrote: >I still think my boss did this as a "challenge" you couldn't get a less >supported x86 motherboard if you tried (I suspect anyhow) and I may well give >up on the onboard ethernet and just use a different PCI nic instead and may >reccomend you do the same too. At least if you do that it will work ok with >Debian and getting the thing online to upgrade will not be so difficult. I was so heartened by this that I stuffed in an old NIC that was lying around, got networking going, and things are looking up. Unfortunately when I then upgraded to a later kernel (2.4.19 from 2.4.18-bf2) I lost the networking again :-) The first kernel image wouldn't boot at all as it seemed to be trying to mount "root=3:01" rather than /dev/hda1? For all that onboard not-worky stuff I found a driver package on nVidia website, NVIDIA_nforce-1.0-0248.tar.gz but keep getting make errors. I don't even know if it contains the correct drivers. Adam - have you tried this? So no XWindow (essential for the job this computer is required for) and only networking with one kernel image so far. Also can't find anywhere in BIOS to turn off either PnP OS or the onboard NIC. I'm about to waste a bit more time this morning doing a 2.4.20 build. Adam - I think your boss did this because the computer is currently on offer at a bargain price at Cambridge Computers - that's how come I ended up being bought one. The subsequent amount of hours at my hourly wage trying to get it working could have brought one twice as expensive and still been cheaper for them :-) Jenny

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