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RE: Returning unused copies of Wiindows
by Michael Sage 22 Oct '02

22 Oct '02

The problem is the software is considered as much a part of the package as the hardware. You don't buy a computer from Dell without a processor, so why should you be "competent" to install a processor or indeed an operating system. I also seem to remember M$ threatening OEMs a few months ago about shipping a PC without an OS, they called it an illegal machine and wanted all OEMs to report it too them immediately, with this kind of thing is it any wander OEMs wont refund anything on the OS. Unfortunately this is the way it is. I recommend buying a machine with Windows 98 rather than 2k/XP that way you can either give the license to a local school (although this too is deemed illegal by MS as they have decided that an OEM licence is bound to hardware, go one prove it! :o) ) or similar. Any way, that's the way I see it. Regards, Michael P.S I don't think I can make the 3rd.

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Me!
by Michael Sage 22 Oct '02

22 Oct '02

As Requested in the joining mail here is a short piece about me. Interest in Linux started way back in 1997/98 when I worked for a small ISP. Worked there part time, then when I finished college went back full time, general basic Linux admin (apache, qmail, user management, support etc). Moved to a small software house in Norwich, lost my linuxy roots, although, during this time built and used Linux Firewalls (2.2 and 2.4 varitents) and web servers. 2002 moved to Pitman Training in Norwich, in the process of migrating a Novell network to Linux, also in process of maintaining Linux Firewalls (hardcore and Mandrake firewall edition) as well as setting up a DNS server for a local company in the near furture. As well as all of this in the process of getting Linux certification instated to Pitman, including RHE, Linux+ and LCA quailifications. Still under the impression that Linux isnt quite ready for the desktop, although it is nearly there. Fav Distro: Slackware. There thats me! :o) Kind Regards, Michael Sage Technical and Network Manager -- Pitman Norwich Tel: 01603 619769 2 Recorder Road Fax: 01603 619769 Norwich, NR1 1NR

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Returning unused copies of Windows
by Andrew Bayliss 22 Oct '02

22 Oct '02

My girlfriend has just bougt an Acer laptop through Dabs and is planning to run Debian on it, and is fairly peeved that she has had to pay for a useless copy of Windows XP. I remember hearing a while ago about Linux users returning unused (i.e. never booted) copies of Windows (I think this was around the 95/98 time) that they had been forced to buy with computers, usually laptops. Does anyone know if this is still possible under the Windows XP EULA? -- Andrew

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Announce digest, Vol 1 #28 - 2 msgs
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 22 Oct '02

22 Oct '02

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. Fwd: supporting Free Software (MJ Ray) 2. Peterborough LUG meeting Thursday (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:02:47 +0100 Subject: [Alug Announce] Fwd: supporting Free Software On October 9th the UK Free Software Network - UKFSN.ORG - launched at Linux Expo. UKFSN is an Internet Service Provider with a difference - all of the profits from the operation will be donated to fund Free Software projects in the UK. Each month UKFSN will release a public statement clearly showing how much income was raised during the preceeding month and how much is cost to run the service. The surplus will then be paid to the Association for Free Software (http://www.affs.org.uk/) who have agreed to handle the distribution of the money raised. The UK Free Software Network offers all the standard services one expects from an ISP including 0845 dialup access, email, web hosting and usenet. These standard offerings are beefed up with the inclusion of perl, PHP and python and MySQL support for the web hosting and extensive SPAM control measures in the email service. The service is not just for geeks however. As well as subscription free Internet access and services UKFSN.ORG offers professional hosting options for businesses and domain registration services. Business users will especially appreciate the WorldPay payment system perl module that has been written to support ecommerce transactions by UKFSN hosted sites. UKFSN is being run by Jason Clifford, the person behind Definite Linux - the now defunct British Linux distribution. The UKFSN website is http://www.ukfsn.org/ info(a)ukfsn.org for more information. The Association for Free Software is a membership organisation which promotes and defends Free Software in the UK and is an associate organisation of the Free Software Foundation Europe. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:41:20 +0100 Subject: [Alug Announce] Peterborough LUG meeting Thursday Our neighbours in Peterborough will be meeting on Thursday evening. The talk will be about high capacity web serving, a talk that will also be given at Apachecon in the US later this year. Details are on http://www.peterboro.lug.org.uk/meeting.php I'll be travelling there along the A47 from West Norfolk. If anyone wants a lift, email me. MJR -- MJR| v ---|--[ Luminas internet applications http://www.luminas.co.uk/ ]-----| `--[ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ ]---------[ slef at jabber.at ]-----' --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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Meetings on irc
by Owen 21 Oct '02

21 Oct '02

Sorry been away from alug for a while where do you now meet on irc, I found this server which refused to let me in Regards Owen

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compiling
by Simon Jude 21 Oct '02

21 Oct '02

Hi, I need to compile a driver so that I can get the network to run on my laptop. Being a newbie when it comes to compiling (except for kernels), could somebody please explain what kernel headers are? The instructions say unpack the tarball and run make (you need kernel headers for this, with /usr/src/linux pointing to them). I understand the first bit but not the rest!! Any help would be appreciated!!! Thanks Simon

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 21 Oct '02

21 Oct '02

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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.bashrc or .bash_profile? (poss gentoo specific?)
by Ricardo Campos 20 Oct '02

20 Oct '02

OK. Silly but annoying problem. In gentoo, all I get is sh-2.05a$ as my prompt in Eterm. Before I run X, I do get the familiar ricardo@hostname directory$ I want it back, since I'm a forgetful soul, and it would save me all that typing of pwd. But adding the suitable PS1 variable to .bash_profile doesn't help. Also, the ls alias that gives me different colours for directories, executables etc doesn't work in a terminal (not just eterm). Any clues? Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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registering domains
by Owen 20 Oct '02

20 Oct '02

Wheres a good place to get a domain registered securley, was going to use entora but they seem to be no more Regards Owen

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Re: [Alug] Linux advocacy (ish)
by Ricardo Campos 20 Oct '02

20 Oct '02

> 'Computing' have had a few pro linux articles recently, it may be worth giving > them a try. <insert URL of computing here>. Mostly from sun though IIRC, so > it may be a bit partisan. There may be some links to what your're looking for > perhaps... > > And I'm sure there is a write up of that samba vs. NT test knocking about > somewhere, it may give you a few quotes... Thanks! The course is called "Computer Architecture and Communications", so I'm gonna use kernel.org for the fact that the kernel has been ported to Intel, SPARC, Alpha, etc. I found the SAMBA article (via samba.org), however, I haven't yet found proper figures yet. I've also found some stuff on the relative benefits of Linux's TCP/IP stacks performance, but again, summaries with no hard data. grrr. :-/ Thanks for the help! (Off to search computing journals in the library) Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Fwd: Re: [Alug] Returning unused copies of Windows
by Wayne Stallwood 19 Oct '02

19 Oct '02

But not apparently if you are a private customer. To see my point go to dell.co.uk, configure and buy a Inspiron 8200 Laptop. XP Home and XP Pro are the only OS options FreeDOS no longer seems to be an option. Neither is the "No Operating system installed" that they offered a few years ago. In addition to this I have to select either Works, Office XP SBE or Office XP Pro. Again no option for none of the above. Wayne On Friday 18 October 2002 12:46, Adam Bower wrote: > On Thu, Oct 17, 2002 at 09:02:21PM +0000, Wayne Stallwood wrote: > > It really bugs me that I have a paid for boxed copy of Win2000 here > > (sitting unused) , but if I bought a new machine from Dell I would have > > to buy Windows all over again. > > why? you have a full retail copy you can install it on any machine you > like, if you don't want to pay windows tax buy your dell with the copy of > FreeDOS. Anyhow dell did offer machines with Redhat pre-installed a couple > of years back but they dropped it as the amount it cost them to support was > not worth the small volume they were selling and they figured that people > who wanted Linux would install the distro they wanted, IIRC. > > Adam -------------------------------------------------------

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RE: [Alug] Microsoft Invasion of UEA
by NuTTeR -- Not Entered -- 18 Oct '02

18 Oct '02

> is this something we can discuss at Sylham on the 3rd? > Whats wrong with the list? I feel linux and most of the server avalible for it do a job and do it well... i think if you look at the amount of servers using apachy youll see that opensource is the "right" tool for the job. [getting away from the "use the right tool for the right job" thing] When is this talk happening? i would like there to be some1 to tell the sys kidys the joys of OpenSource =). I also think free distro cd's are a good idea. Could this be another Linux install day? i think it would be a good idea :). ill help in any way i can, i can talk aabout opensource(when proded anoth) or just give out some cd's, flyers that kinda stuff. I can only be at the UEA on a friday though (sorry other commitments rest of week.. Uni in Cambridge). (sys kidz, what are they? is it just ppl doing C.S. degreez.. that means me :-P ) -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze

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RE: [Alug] Microsoft Invasion of UEA
by NuTTeR -- Not Entered -- 18 Oct '02

18 Oct '02

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Linux Expoo =D
by Craig 18 Oct '02

18 Oct '02

Well that what I really thought but then the only good part was the Mac OSX talk and their stand. Oh and the playstation 2 linux kit was really decent! -- (o_ .----------------------------------------. //\ | Craig Butcher | http://www.wizball.co.uk| V_/_ | - Using Gentoo GNU/Linux - | `----------------------------------------'

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RE: [Alug] Microsoft Invasion of UEA
by Keith Watson 17 Oct '02

17 Oct '02

> jo(a)yee-ha.demon.co.uk, Monday, October 14, 2002 10:16 AM > > David Cartwright wrote: > <many fine, well reasoned arguments> > > Bravo, that man. > Ditto. For me Naomi Klein's No Logo <http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0006530400/qid%3D1034588688/202-47…> sums up many of my causes for concern about MS (and other big corporates) but David is right, sometimes they produce good products and, as professionals(?), we should always use the best (in our own judgement) tools for the job in hand and trying to put our personal prejudices aside. Keith

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Gentoo (whizz!)
by Ricardo Campos 17 Oct '02

17 Oct '02

I've just installed Gentoo on my laptop (thanks to broadband!) and I have to say that I am really impressed. At the moment it is a skeleton system, with Gnome2 and that's about it, but I noted down some times for applications to run (i.e. Mozilla, which always takes ages to run, and Nautilus). In a way, it's an unfair test, since Gentoo uses far more up to date progs than the other distro (Redhat 7.3 in this case), so bear that in mind... (also, gnome may not have many of the components that slowed it down from logging in at gdm to the desktop being available yet). However; gnome is DEFINITELY running much faster. It used to take 10 seconds from gdm to a desktop, it now takes 6. (approx). Again, the diff is so massive, I guess there's some gnome components I'm missing. I'll post the details of the Mozilla test once it's installed. The downside; it takes ages, even with a 600kbps connection (generally 40-60kbps download speeds) and a 1ghz celeron processor and 256MB RAM. But then you'd expect that, compiling X and gnome2 from source! Erm, other than that, there really isn't a downside! I've only been using Linux for a year, so I feel like a not-quite-newbie, and there have been moments where it has stretched my knowledge (even at this point!). compiling a ridiculously patched 2.4.19 kernel, for example, produced some surprises. However the docs on the gentoo website are AMAZING. The best I've read so far. I'm still a little unsure that may USE variables are set correctly, but I guess I can always make world if I have to. I intend to do a wee review on the Wiki, comparing times for various apps, and also I know that I've yet to install any of the apps that are *really* tricky. I'm also a total emerge newbie, so comparing it with apt would be unfair at this point. Anyhoo, I'll post the link to the Wiki when it is done (but that may be a couple of weeks). I'll post the mozilla findings later today, when I should hopefully have it installed. Weeeeeeeeeeee! Ricardo PS. *DISCLAIMER* I still use debian on my other box, and any comparison is not to knock any distro at all (different strokes etc, different horses etc & other such sayings), merely to review the new one I'm trying out. -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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IDE's for Java
by Ricardo Campos 17 Oct '02

17 Oct '02

I'm looking for a good IDE to use for Java programming... any tips (and indeed any dgood 'nix CASE tools/ diagramming progs)? Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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RE: [Alug] IDE's for Java
by Ricardo Campos 16 Oct '02

16 Oct '02

-- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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RE:IDE's for Java (Raphael Mankin)
by tom potts 16 Oct '02

16 Oct '02

http://www.kdevelop.org/ has what I believe is a very nice IDE that may be able to do Java -its not yet available for v3 but I heard it was running in v2. A warning about Forte - I've run it on a 800MHz/256Meg Ram W2K and it took over 3 minutes to load. Worked quite well when it was up but probably no a tool for beginners unless they're patient. Tom __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com

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Re: [Alug] USB + 2.4.19 + pcmcia
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 15 Oct '02

15 Oct '02

Re. my pcmcia not working with kernel 2.4.19 problem: MJRay wrote: >Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com <Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com> wrote: >> insmod won't load them [...] > >...and does modprobe like it any better? Sometimes it can be that something >else is required that you haven't included. The dependency handling of >building kernel modules is rather primitive, sadly. > >MJR Fixed! I rebuilt the kernel with pcmcia support compiled in rather than as a module, and it works! I now have a laptop with USB and PCMCIA. *joy* Thanks for all the suggestions and help, Jenny.

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RE:And may I just add that Microsoft make a damn fine flight simulator!
by tom potts 15 Oct '02

15 Oct '02

Of course they do - they've caused more hardware to fly than anyone else! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com

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Re: [Alug] Microsoft Invasion of UEA
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 15 Oct '02

15 Oct '02

>My personal favourite would be standing outside the bus wearing Tux >t-shirts handing out cds of Linux distros, unless anyone knows of >anywhere one could hire a pengiun costume? :) Once again, I think of "In the beginning was the command line" where the linux distro is compared to people giving away free tanks on a street corner with the offer of free home servicing and repairs, whilst the masses back away shouting "get away from us, you freaks" as they veer towards the ms bicycle with bolt-on engine being sold on the opposite corner...... ;-) Jen.

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Re: [Alug] NTL Broadband
by Ricardo Campos 15 Oct '02

15 Oct '02

Weeeee! Zoooom! Pump was at fault. to connect Linux to NTL Broadband you need the following: DHClient or DHClient3 (pref the latter), NOT pump. CONFIG_PACKET=Y and CONFIG_FILTER=y in your kernel. I put this in the Tips,Tricks and Workarounds in the Wiki. That's it. It's simple enough, once you've been told. It was the kernel level stuff that stumped me! ;) Ricardo (Weeeeeeeeee! Zooooom! 600kbps!) -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: [Alug] NTL Broadband
by Ricardo Campos 14 Oct '02

14 Oct '02

> Hope you have got it all working now. Nope! And my housemate is complaining since he's paying for broadband and only my computer can access the net! Pressure! ;) > As you are using dhclient something like > > dhclient -i eth0 dhclient won't work until I compile config_packet=yes into my kernel. Sadly, make-kpkg exits with errors (unresolved symbols) even after a make clean and make mrproper. In fact, I deleted /usr/src/linux and untarred it and tried again, with the same errors, which is odd to say the least! I'll get the kernel recompiled and then try again. did you turn off the set top box for a while before attaching it to the network? It still doesn't explain why neither windows nor linux couldn't get external sources via the ipcop box... oh well! -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: [Alug] Microsoft Invasion of UEA
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 14 Oct '02

14 Oct '02

MJRay wrote: >See you all on IRC later, All except me; still no internet connection at home. Don't pine for my endless prattle about motorbikes too much, will you :-) Jen.

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