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10372 discussions

RE: windows management
by Ben Norcutt 14 Jul '02

14 Jul '02

>As someone that works as a network manager in a >secondary school in >Norwich >I can say that the IT support brach for the schools >has a hard enough >time >with windoze. > >Sorry - you've just discovered the M$ lie - Windows >was designed to 'protect the user from the operating >System'. However you still have to know what your >doing - a computer is a tool not a crutch - An >operating system will not turn you into a competent >network manager any more than a graphics editor will >turn you into an artist or a word processor turn me >into a coherent writer. If you dont know the >fundamentals it aint really gonna help. >Tom Hi Tom, I'm not sure but I think you just insulted me. When I said the IT support branch I was talking about the IT support from the LEA most schools aren't as fortunate as mine having someone who is there fulltime just to look after the IT system most have a teacher doing it. Next time you wanna have a pop do it privately if this is wrong then forigve me but right now I fell pretty pi**ed off with your lame response. Ben

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RE: windows management
by Ben Norcutt 14 Jul '02

14 Jul '02

> Like those RM Machines. Those were too easy to >hack :/ > >From what I've heard, RM machines manage to >effectively stop the system >admins and their chosen (non-RM) software contractors >from doing certain >tasks, yet don't seem to stop the students circumventing >them... Bizarrely, >they still have customers. Having worked with RM networks there was nothing in the RM security that stopped you as an admin doing anything you needed to do and yes there were always things certain knowledgable students could do to mess the system up but the bolt on security onto an otherwise unsecure win9x machine was good. There latest product is based on XP clients and 2K server and looks good. Ben

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Re: [Alug] Networking Problem + ill be at the meeting
by NuTTeR -- Not Entered -- 14 Jul '02

14 Jul '02

----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Glover <chris(a)glovercc.clara.co.uk> > > other ALUG members) any ideas?.. All help is welcome as I am a bit out of my > > depth myself! > > > > No problem :-) > > Networks can be bastards at times. > > Chris > > -- > Chris This may sound realy dumb and not be correct at all but isnt 192.somthing.somthing.somthing a class C IP adress... and that should have a broadcast address of 192.somthing.somthing.255 not 192.something.255.255. just a thought. The first 3 parts of the ip addresses on that network should be the same for all the hosts(nodes/computers/...). Or is it a subnet thing? if not your subnetmask should be 255.255.255.0. P.S. ill be at the meeting later today will anyone have a copy of debian testing? if so could u bring it maybe :). I can also give lifts if you live in a small village my kinda way... Litcham and around that way :). Dennis Dryden -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze

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Tomorrow's meeting...
by MJ Ray 14 Jul '02

14 Jul '02

If anyone is travelling to King's Lynn by train (via Ely) or coach (X94 Pboro, Norwich, Yarmouth, Lowestoft; X98 North Norfolk), if you let me know what time you're arriving, I'll try to wander to the station with a penguin to meet you. If not, you can try to figure out wtf the buses are doing this weekend, or grab a taxi ;-) If you're coming by car, please follow signs for Lynnsport or Seabank Chapel, but after the mini-roundabout, take the turning on the right a little way after the yellow local shop and then turn left into the centre's car park. If you end up at Lynnsport or the chapel, you missed the turning ;-) Look forward to seeing lots of you tomorrow... -- MJR ,---------------------------------------------------- | Q. Do you need a net-based application developing, | or advice and training about web technology? | A. I suggest you try http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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GPG trust
by Alexis Lee 14 Jul '02

14 Jul '02

Hi, I've been signing my messages for a little while yet, but I've only just remembered that I have to get my key trusted by a trusted party before it's any good to anyone. Doh. So, does anyone have a trusted GPG key, that I could convince to trust me? Alexis -- "I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have" - T Jefferson "Let's stop and pray!" - pious little girl "No. Let's keep running, and pray as we go along" - pragmatic little girl

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Freeshell.org: woohoo!
by Alexis Lee 13 Jul '02

13 Jul '02

I posted some time ago asking for opinions on freeshell.org's service. Well, the subject says it all really. I paid the $36 donation for ARPA membership, and I'm very pleased. They don't actually run Linux - they tried it but moved to Alphas for stability. They do have about 22000 users, so that's understandable I think. As they say, consumer grade hardware just isn't up to that. They provide PHP/Perl/CGI facilities, 100MB each for mail/web/home and SSH/SCP/SFTP. So I'm happy. Alexis -- "You got what everyone gets. A lifetime." - Death (Sandman by Neil Gaiman) Windows didn't get as bad as it is overnight; it took over 10 years of careful development.

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Re: [Alug] kernel panic! Oh poo.
by Ricardo Campos 13 Jul '02

13 Jul '02

>a tomsrtbt disk (or similar) handy to try to mount >the disk and see if anything is still salvagable? I >suspect trying to copy /home off will be a >challenge. Good luck. this is the point when I wish I didn't lend out my install disks.... I booted using tomsrtbt, and it seems my /home and /usr and /archive partitions are intact, just lost /bin, /sbin etc. In fact, the only thing on / is vmlinuz and lost+found! I highly reccommend having a tomsrtbt floppy/CD to anyone reading this. So I have a custom kernel-image .deb that I've retrieved, meaning that when I get Debian reinstalled on it, I can get my USB cd-writer working, so I have full back up (and about 20 backup CD-rs!). Then I'll "keep an eye on it", until I save up enough to buy a new HD. Thanks for the suggestions. Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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RE: [Alug] Sound Scuppered
by Jonathan Dye 13 Jul '02

13 Jul '02

> I've just rebuilt my kernel to include USB support and now my > sound card has stopped working. I've searched for the error > message on the web but haven't come up with anything much. > > I wasn't aware that I'd changed anything other than the USB > settings (I used 'make menuconfig'). Was your previsous kernel a vendor supplied on (RPM or deb etc)? If so then you need to find the right .config file for it and use that as a starting point for your new build by copying it over the .config in your kernel sources. If you don't do this then the configuration you start with in menuconfig is not the same as the currently installed kernel so just changing some things won't work. > As I'm writing this from work I haven't got all the info to > hand at present but I'm using the 2.4.18 kernel with > ALSA 0.9.0beta12. (hmm... wonder if it would be worth > seeing if there's a later release of ALSA? wonder if it would > make any difference?) > > My sound card is a Creative Soundblaster 128 PCI (chip show > up as an Ensoniq 5880 AudioPCI) and I've been successfully > using the ens1371 driver. > > As a side issue my NVidia drivers also hiccupped when I > rebuilt the kernel but were OK after I rebuilt the > NVidia package. Should I have needed to do this or is > there something else I'm not doing and should? > > Sorry, I know I should be supplying a lot more info. but I'm > hoping this might be a 'no brainer' type newbie error > (oh look! all those bacon flavoured objects flying past > the window!! :o) ) I hope I haven't underestimated your experience on kernel compilation but you do say that you are a newbie. > > Regards, > Keith JD _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service

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windows management
by tom potts 12 Jul '02

12 Jul '02

>As someone that works as a network manager in a >secondary school in >Norwich >I can say that the IT support brach for the schools >has a hard enough >time >with windoze. Sorry - you've just discovered the M$ lie - Windows was designed to 'protect the user from the operating system'. However you still have to know what your doing - a computer is a tool not a crutch - An operating system will not turn you into a competent network manager any more than a graphics editor will turn you into an artist or a word processor turn me into a coherent writer. If you dont know the fundamentals it aint really gonna help. Tom __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com

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Sound Scuppered
by Keith Watson 12 Jul '02

12 Jul '02

I've just rebuilt my kernel to include USB support and now my sound card has stopped working. I've searched for the error message on the web but haven't come up with anything much. I wasn't aware that I'd changed anything other than the USB settings (I used 'make menuconfig'). As I'm writing this from work I haven't got all the info to hand at present but I'm using the 2.4.18 kernel with ALSA 0.9.0beta12. (hmm... wonder if it would be worth seeing if there's a later release of ALSA? wonder if it would make any difference?) My sound card is a Creative Soundblaster 128 PCI (chip show up as an Ensoniq 5880 AudioPCI) and I've been successfully using the ens1371 driver. As a side issue my NVidia drivers also hiccupped when I rebuilt the kernel but were OK after I rebuilt the NVidia package. Should I have needed to do this or is there something else I'm not doing and should? Sorry, I know I should be supplying a lot more info. but I'm hoping this might be a 'no brainer' type newbie error (oh look! all those bacon flavoured objects flying past the window!! :o) ) Regards, Keith ____________ AIR, n. A nutritious substance supplied by a bountiful Providence for the fattening of the poor. Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary

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Re: MS Story In EDP
by Ben Norcutt 12 Jul '02

12 Jul '02

As someone that works as a network manager in a secondary school in Norwich I can say that the IT support brach for the schools has a hard enough time with windoze. Cheers, Ben

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Buglary
by Ian Thompson-Bell 12 Jul '02

12 Jul '02

We went out for two hours today and when we returned we discovered we had been burgled. Amongst other things the took my Lifetec PIII 233 laptop with 12gig drive and w98/Mandrake 7.2 dual boot, also my Sharp SL5000D Linux PDA that I showed some of you a few meetings ago and lastly a standalone Iomega 250Mbyte zip drive. If you are offered any of these cheaply or see something similar at a car boot sale please let me know. Ian

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Printing from Windows XP via Samba
by Chris Glover 11 Jul '02

11 Jul '02

Hi, I've just spent the past three hours trying to get this to work... If you have installed Windows XP, and are trying to print to a samba shared printer, and getting an "Access Denied" message, the solution is:- Add the following to the printers section of smb.conf printer admin = <username> This can be a comma separated list of users The reason being is that XP port let you connect to any shared printers unless the user has admin rights on that printer. Just thought I'd share this, in case anybody else was getting as frustrated as I was! Chris :-) Chris ************************************************************************ *** E Mail Chris(a)glovercc.clara.co.uk WWW http://www.glovercc.clara.co.uk Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject. -Anon

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Re: [Alug] Re: MS Story In EDP
by David Fairey 11 Jul '02

11 Jul '02

> As someone that works as a network manager in a secondary school in Norwich > I can say that the IT support brach for the schools has a hard enough time > with windoze. There have been alot of success stories with using the Linux Terminal Server project (www.ltsp.org) and the K12-LTSP distribution (www.k12ltsp.org) in schools and colleges. This basically uses any PC as the client that the students use, which boots over the network and all applications run on a pretty decent spec server. Education programs that still run under Windows can run under emulations like vmware, win4lin, wine, etc. Now that there is a excellent "office suite" in OpenOffice.org there hardly seems a reason not to consider it. I can't see why these can't be deployed in our schools, it would certainly cut down on the maintenance of client machines, leaving more time to educate the users. And can increase the use of PCs donated from local companies (once Windoze is properly removed) as the clients hardly need powerful processor or graphics cards. Any money saved on Windows licences can be put into buying one or more well-specified application servers to cover the whole school. Cheers. David.

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Re: MS Story In EDP
by NuTTeR -- Not Entered -- 11 Jul '02

11 Jul '02

> As someone that works as a network manager in a secondary school in Norwich > I can say that the IT support brach for the schools has a hard enough time > with windoze. > > Cheers, > > Ben Well if the government used free software exclusivly then all the ££ saved could go into improving the software and paying for support. What about if we started a kind of free summer school in computing for people of any age. We could give out free copys of Linux to the attenders maybe even charge a small fee that would go to the FSF or some other organization. i would be happy to help somthing like this out but i would never get round to doing anything if it was upto me. This would increas awarness of GNU/Linux by alot... its just a case of finding the time, people and a place. Dennis Dryden ------------------- http://home.graffiti.net/ddryden/index.html <-- simple and free Game. ------------------- -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze

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Free software and schools
by tom potts 11 Jul '02

11 Jul '02

Dont get your hopes too high: As far as I can tell theres only two MPs who can tell a modem from an elephant (Tam Dallyell and Chri Mole -Ipswich!). The goverment/civil servants combined with PFI seems to result in criminally stupid initiatives - how the hell EDS could get £600M OVER budget on a web page to collect tax information is beyond me. I've tried to get local schools to look at FS but there seems to be the problem with the teachers not actually wanting to learn anything. I dont know if you read the comment from an IT teacher who said it took several hours each week to mark multiple choice exams - Excuse me - your in IT automate it!! I dont do emoticons but there isnt one for the face I pulled at that one anyway! I think the only real hope is to lead by example -start/go along to the local computer club - when the kids discover what they can get for free to run on old pcs and with luck in ten years time there will be people out there who will go into business and make computersand software usefull for the customer not the supplier. Or better still have as much fun as I do! Tom __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com

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Re: [Alug] MS Story In EDP
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 11 Jul '02

11 Jul '02

Craig wrote: >Unfortuantly but if you mention the fact Linux is free and they would >think 'money saved!'. Haven't you read "In the beginning was the command line"? The linux users stand on a corner shouting "drive away a free tank, reliable, powerful, completely free..." and everyone backs off muttering "get away from me, you weirdos" whilst heading for the nice corner where m$ are selling bicycles with bolt-on engines in a familiar, safe capitalist environment. Or something. ;-) Jen.

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Re: [Alug] Buglary
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 11 Jul '02

11 Jul '02

>We went out for two hours today and when we returned we discovered we had >been burgled. Amongst other things the took my Lifetec PIII 233 laptop with >12gig drive and w98/Mandrake 7.2 dual boot, also my Sharp SL5000D Linux PDA >that I showed some of you a few meetings ago and lastly a standalone Iomega >250Mbyte zip drive. Commiserations, Ian - we had a motorbike stolen from our garage a few weeks ago, and that felt bad enough. Jenny.

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Announce digest, Vol 1 #20 - 2 msgs
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 11 Jul '02

11 Jul '02

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. Fwd: [peterboro] Linux Expo (MJ Ray) 2. ANNOUNCE: ALUG in King's Lynn 2pm Sunday 14th July (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 11:10:23 +0100 Subject: [Alug Announce] Fwd: [peterboro] Linux Expo A similar question for ALUGgers: is anyone going? I'll make a LinuxExpoOlympia page for people to sign up on. Maybe we can meet for the pub at lunchtime again? From: Ben Hayes <Ben.Hayes(a)MisysIM.co.uk> Subject: [peterboro] Linux Expo Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 17:51:46 +0100 For those who are interested, the 2002 Linux Expo at Olympia is scheduled for October 9th & 10th. The website has now been updated to take reservations. The url is: http://www.linuxexpouk.co.uk As usual, this is free. I just hope this year, we will see bigger names at the Expo (i.e. Red Hat, Mandrake, Sun, HP, LinuxCare, etc, etc). Anyone interested in going this year? --__--__-- Message: 2 From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 21:26:04 +0100 Subject: [Alug Announce] ANNOUNCE: ALUG in King's Lynn 2pm Sunday 14th July The next Anglian LUG meeting will be on Sunday 14th July 2002 1400-1730 at North Lynn Discovery Centre, King's Lynn, Norfolk The meeting will consist of demonstrations, debugging and short discussions centred around: - building from source - contributing to free software projects - networking, connection sharing and samba - Linux on palmtop devices (Exact lineup on the day subject to confirmation. Anticipate four 30 minute round-table sessions. Feel free to bring kit, but label it and at your own risk.) For directions and more details about the meeting, please see http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?July%2014th http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?NorthLynn http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?AlugMeetings HELP PUBLICISE US! If you can display a poster for this meeting, please print http://mjr.towers.org.uk/alug/alug-jul02.pdf and if you want a more general poster, try http://mjr.towers.org.uk/alug/alug-gen.pdf Maybe you could add this meeting's details to your sig? -- MJR --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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MS Story In EDP
by Matt Parker 11 Jul '02

11 Jul '02

There's a front cover story in today's EDP about MS's upcoming charging policy for schools. This link should work, may wrap - http://www.edp24.co.uk/content/News/NewsStory.asp?Brand=EDPONLINE&Category=… The local MP is saying it's going to cost too much to buy MS. We should all e-mail the EDP at EDPLetters(a)archant.co.uk (they're bound to print at least one) pointing out the availability, usability, and lack of cost associated with Linux. Send them this link - http://www.k12ltsp.org/ - or something like it to show previous success in schools. Let's all advocate our favourite OS and kick MS out of our schools. (Save on some tax £££s too while we're at it). Matt

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Command Line Quota Tool
by James Ray 09 Jul '02

09 Jul '02

I was wondering if any one knew of an application to do quota editing (on 2.4.x kernels) from the command line the 'quotatool' package under debian only seems to work for the old 2.2.x style quota.user files and not the aquota.user files that 2.4.x uses. Any ideas welcome :) -- James `BR` Ray - PGP Key: http://www.pethippo.co.uk/?page=pgp - Email -> Phone: mobile(a)pethippo.co.uk (Urgent only)

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WARGHHHHHHH...
by Craig 09 Jul '02

09 Jul '02

Came home and found out you people starting to spam the list now ;) I dare you guys to do it again because the next one would be signed up for Big Brother next year ;) -- (o_ .----------------------------------------. //\ | Craig Butcher | http://www.wizball.co.uk| V_/_ | - Using Debian GNU/Linux - | `----------------------------------------'

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Re: [Alug] Two GNOME or not two GNOME?
by Ricardo Campos 09 Jul '02

09 Jul '02

> Questions; > > 1) Is KDE any easier to install? Sorry, but what distro are you using? Is it RPM based? (rpm based= nothing's actually very easy to do). How come your distro didn't install these things? If you were using debian you'd do: apt-get install task-gnome-apps task-gnome-net task-gnome-core And that would have fetched, installed and configured Gnome for you. You can do a similar thing with KDE, but since I dislike KDE, I'd never install it. > 2) Should I consider moving Gnome 2? I wouldn't suggest it just yet unless you want to be bleeding edge. I'd stick with 1.4 for a little while yet. > 3) Is Sawfish any better than Enlightenment (and why :o) ) ? Totally matter-of-opinion. You can have other window managers as well, such as windowmaker. My preference for gnome is Sawfish, but that's just me! > 4) Before I do anything else I want to install a Web browser but which one? Mozilla! (again, personal opinion) Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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List breakage & IRC meeting tonight 8pm
by Adam Bower 09 Jul '02

09 Jul '02

Hi All, The list was down (well not down just all mails were put in a queue for admin approval) for a brief period earlier today, not sure how it happened but a regexp that caught all email and put it in the admin queue somehow got in there, anyhow normal service has now been resumed. And also.... its the IRC meeting tonight. Hope to see you online :) This is the (not so) automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!) Adam -- "Step away from the Cathedral, This Bazaar is loaded" jabberid = quinophex(a)jabber.earth.li

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Apologies
by Keith Watson 08 Jul '02

08 Jul '02

Ooops! Sorry about the long disclaimer, I've switched it off now :o) Regards, Keith Watson ____________ Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know. Lao-tzu

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