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Re: [Alug] Two GNOME or not two GNOME?
by Ricardo Campos 09 Jul '02

09 Jul '02

> Questions; > > 1) Is KDE any easier to install? Sorry, but what distro are you using? Is it RPM based? (rpm based= nothing's actually very easy to do). How come your distro didn't install these things? If you were using debian you'd do: apt-get install task-gnome-apps task-gnome-net task-gnome-core And that would have fetched, installed and configured Gnome for you. You can do a similar thing with KDE, but since I dislike KDE, I'd never install it. > 2) Should I consider moving Gnome 2? I wouldn't suggest it just yet unless you want to be bleeding edge. I'd stick with 1.4 for a little while yet. > 3) Is Sawfish any better than Enlightenment (and why :o) ) ? Totally matter-of-opinion. You can have other window managers as well, such as windowmaker. My preference for gnome is Sawfish, but that's just me! > 4) Before I do anything else I want to install a Web browser but which one? Mozilla! (again, personal opinion) Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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List breakage & IRC meeting tonight 8pm
by Adam Bower 09 Jul '02

09 Jul '02

Hi All, The list was down (well not down just all mails were put in a queue for admin approval) for a brief period earlier today, not sure how it happened but a regexp that caught all email and put it in the admin queue somehow got in there, anyhow normal service has now been resumed. And also.... its the IRC meeting tonight. Hope to see you online :) This is the (not so) automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!) Adam -- "Step away from the Cathedral, This Bazaar is loaded" jabberid = quinophex(a)jabber.earth.li

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Apologies
by Keith Watson 08 Jul '02

08 Jul '02

Ooops! Sorry about the long disclaimer, I've switched it off now :o) Regards, Keith Watson ____________ Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know. Lao-tzu

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Two GNOME or not two GNOME?
by Keith Watson 08 Jul '02

08 Jul '02

Suggestions and/or opinions please.... I've now got a stable GNU/Linux system (2.4.18) and I've installed XFree86 and added the NVidia drivers (can't remember the versions). So far so good. I've just finished installing Gnome 1.4 and Enlightenment and they work OK (more or less :o) ). I've come to loathe the Docbook system (see http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/docbook/) which Gnome seems to want to use. Docbook seems to have all sorts of pre-requisites, some of which seem to only be installable via RPM. I'm not sure I have it installed properly or if it's working at all!! but Gnome seems to be running OK so I'll live with it. Questions; 1) Is KDE any easier to install? 2) Should I consider moving Gnome 2? 3) Is Sawfish any better than Enlightenment (and why :o) ) ? 4) Before I do anything else I want to install a Web browser but which one? Regards, Keith Watson ____________ >From the first not a thing is. Hui-neng --- This email and any files transmitted with it is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Kewill Systems plc. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com) Version: 6.0.373 / Virus Database: 208 - Release Date: 01/07/02

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Two GNOME or not two GNOME?
by Keith Watson 08 Jul '02

08 Jul '02

Suggestions and/or opinions please.... I've now got a stable GNU/Linux system (2.4.18) and I've installed XFree86 and added the NVidia drivers (can't remember the versions). So far so good. I've just finished installing Gnome 1.4 and Enlightenment and they work OK (more or less :o) ). I've come to loathe the Docbook system (see http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/docbook/) which Gnome seems to want to use. Docbook seems to have all sorts of pre-requisites, some of which seem to only be installable via RPM. I'm not sure I have it installed properly or if it's working at all!! but Gnome seems to be running OK so I'll live with it. Questions; 1) Is KDE any easier to install? 2) Should I consider moving Gnome 2? 3) Is Sawfish any better than Enlightenment (and why :o) ) ? 4) Before I do anything else I want to install a Web browser but which one? Regards, Keith Watson ____________ >From the first not a thing is. Hui-neng --- This email and any files transmitted with it is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Kewill Systems plc. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com) Version: 6.0.373 / Virus Database: 208 - Release Date: 01/07/02

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AIU-Anglian Insomniacs United
by Kelly Ash 06 Jul '02

06 Jul '02

New association, possibly? *G* It's okay, I'm in, but spending the time straightening out Bills mess so that I can get down to installing a 'proper' OS. Or at the very least, trying to install and trying even harder to look extremely capable of doing so. Still gathering all (pre)install suggestions/advice for the big day/night/week/fortnight......gratefully! Kelly Message: 12 Reply-To: <kpwatson(a)luna.co.uk> From: "Keith Watson" <kpwatson(a)luna.co.uk> To: "ALUG" <main(a)lists.blackcatnetworks.co.uk> Subject: RE: [Alug] Humour: Introducing Monday Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 22:50:28 +0100 Hello there's another insomniac on the list!! :o) Damn I should've told Kelly that was a pre-requisite for a Linux install!

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A funny modem problem
by bsamuels＠beenthere-donethat.org.uk 06 Jul '02

06 Jul '02

By that I mean a funny 'modem problem' not a 'funny modem' problem. I have an old US Robotics 28k ISA modem in one of my machines here and I want to use it to connect via dial-up to try something. It certainly used to work but now it won't. I can query the modem from a terminal window and kppp will do the same but I cannot get it to dial. It goes through the motions but no dialling tone sound or any dialling sound although it is set to have the speaker on until it connects. After trying it 'disconnects' and tries again. If I disconnect the telephone lead from the telephone socket it makes no difference. It still runs through the same process without, apparently, recognising that there is no dialling tone. I have checked the telephone lead on another machine and it appears to be in perfect working order. I'm out of ideas. Anyone? Barry Samuels

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Linux in the movies..
by Martyn Drake 05 Jul '02

05 Jul '02

Hi folks, Linux User have finally gotten around to PDFing the article on The Moving Picture Company's use of Linux. It's now available at:- http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/articles/issue20/lu20-Linux_at_work-In_the_pictu… Regards, Martyn -- Martyn Drake | Email : martyn-d(a)moving-picture.com Systems Administrator | Web : http://www.moving-picture.com The Moving Picture Company | Phone : +44 (0)20 7494 7853

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Re: List address (was RE: [Alug] The last of the true hackers?)
by Keith Watson 04 Jul '02

04 Jul '02

> > ====================== > main(a)lists.alug.org.uk > ====================== > > > Right. That's it. I've bitten my tongue long enough. > > The email address for the AUG list is NOT: > main(a)lists.blackcatnetworks.co.uk > > ... it is: > main(a)lists.alug.org.uk > > aaaggghhh!!! IT THE VOLKSPOLITZEI!! RUN!!!! :o) :o)

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Re: [Alug] cpu leak on sound apps
by Ricardo Campos 04 Jul '02

04 Jul '02

> If the program is using almost exclusively user mode CPU then it would > suggest that the program has simpy got into an infinite loop due toa bug > in the program. Yeah, it shows 90+% user time. Only about 3% sys time. I tried an alternative kernel (no nvidia patch), same problem. I've filed a bug report for it. I'm pretty stumped at the moment. -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: [Alug] OT: opennap
by MJ Ray 04 Jul '02

04 Jul '02

> Ah, so now you're saying that Windows apps have a higher standard than GNU > ones? *giggle* No and I think you know that. Companies producing proprietary code are more likely to optimise the program out of the box sooner than a free software project because the users can only say yes or no to the software, not work on it themselves. Of course, "premature optimisation" is a well-known way to condemn a program to failure. > [...] little think about it. (user/serach nodes) Time to learn CVS... Brokenness that it is. Anyway, if you're going to be silly, I'll leave you to your own counsel. -- MJR

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RE: [Alug] The last of the true hackers?
by Ricardo Campos 04 Jul '02

04 Jul '02

> OK you got me there, what's a "script kiddy"? Teenagers who download ready-made scripts and use them to crack into systems. Typically, they shouldn't actually understand the language that the script was written in. They seem to hang out in IRC, and annoy anyone who uses correct english 1n5t34d 0f 5p3||ing 3v3ryth1ng \/\/|tH Nu/\/\83rs. I think it's an online reaction to real-world social rejection. Either that, or they think it makes them look clever. Who knows? Who cares? -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: [Alug] OT: opennap
by Ricardo Campos 04 Jul '02

04 Jul '02

Mark wrote:- >Oh, that's surprising. I thought one of the main >proprietary Windows clients now used the gnutella >network. I'd be surprised if they'd tolerate >such poor performance. Sure you had your settings >right? Ah, so now you're saying that Windows apps have a higher standard than GNU ones? *giggle* Actually, there may be some truth in that, since Windoze users tend not to tolerate beta software like we do. The gnutella network was crap on Windows too, IIRC. Although, not as crap as Limewire or GTK-Gnutella (I presume you're referring to Morpheus).Audiogalaxy was by far the most efficient system I've used so far, no worries if clients disconnect. As for performance, I tried disabling my firewall (actually, that really only helped THEM, not me). The real problem was clients disappearing (i.e. disconnecting), which is as much a social thing as anything. It just then caused you to have to connect to someone else, and so on... high overhead. I guess it would be possible to do an openAG. It needs a database (pick one of many), web interface to the database (php?) and client that can resume downloads (hack an FTP client).The big problem with that is that most ISP's firewall off http requests to home users, to stop them from running webservers on their DSL/cable modem lines. Thinking about it, the web interface is optional, since it was just a neat way for AG to get some revenue- from marketing. Well, I'm gonna have a look at giFT and see what's up. After a cursory look, it seemed to have a similar solution to the ones I came up with when I had a little think about it. (user/serach nodes) Time to learn CVS... Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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The last of the true hackers?
by Keith Watson 04 Jul '02

04 Jul '02

There's an interesting article in Computing about an interview with... er... er.. well it must've been good 'cause I've already forgotten his name.. you know the GNU/Linux guy. Anyway read it for yourself if you're interested <http://www.computing.co.uk/Features/1133127> ____________ Our destiny is shaped by our thoughts and our actions. We cannot direct the wind, but we can adjust the sails. --- This message has been scanned for computer viruses and none have been detected. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com) Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 05/06/2002

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Re: [Alug] OT: opennap
by Ricardo Campos 04 Jul '02

04 Jul '02

>Shouldn't you all be using gnutella now? I think that >avoids this problem by not having any central servers. >It's sort of peer-to-peer. Or freenet... There's a wee problem with gnutella. It sucks. Well, in terms of bandwidth it sucks. It absoloutely eats up bandwidth, which is a real problem for dial up. When you see your ppp monitor on your trusty gkrellm go up to 4.5k/s you think "I must be downloading *something*". Nope. Just the huge overhead on that particular protocol. So I tried gnutella for a while, and gnapster produced more downloads, even if it is just mp3's. *sigh* 2 more months and I move to a place with broadband.... Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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die die die
by Craig 03 Jul '02

03 Jul '02

Sorry guys, just feel like going on the rampage because X froze 30 mins ago and the mouse cursor was still moveable. Grrrrrrrrrrr.. -- (o_ .----------------------------------------. //\ | Craig Butcher | http://www.wizball.co.uk| V_/_ | - Using Debian GNU/Linux - | `----------------------------------------'

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OT: opennap
by Ricardo Campos 03 Jul '02

03 Jul '02

Anyone know of any reliable opennap servers? I can't seem to find any that will allow me to connect to them. :( (E-mail off list if you want) Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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ALUG early July @ King's Lynn
by MJ Ray 03 Jul '02

03 Jul '02

Well, with roughly equal numbers expressing an interest in Lynn and Ely, I've booked a meeting room at the North Lynn Discovery Centre for 2pm-6pm on Sunday 14th July. I'll post more details later (like a proper announcement and how to get there), but there's car parking, wheelchair access (I'm fairly sure) and the fast food cafe should be open. So, who else is coming and what are we looking at this time?

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Script to resync software ide raid filesystem
by ben＠plexer.freeserve.co.uk 03 Jul '02

03 Jul '02

Hi, I have an SME server running ide raid and was wondering if anyone knew of a way to code some sort of shell script so that if one of the drives fails you can power down the box replace the drive then run said script to initialise the partitions on the new device the same as the single drive of the mirror that is running and then start the resync proccess keeping you informed every now and then of hwo it's coming along and when it's finished, possibly. Ideal solution would be fireable from the a php page that can be linked into the main web interface. www.e-smith.org if anyones interested. Cheers, Ben _______________________________________________________________________ Freeserve AnyTime, only £13.99 per month with one month's FREE trial! For more information visit http://www.freeserve.com/time/ or call free on 0800 970 8890

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Humour: Introducing Monday
by Keith Watson 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

PriceWaterhouseCoopers consultancy have re-launched themselves as Monday and have setup the web site www.introducingmonday.com, unfortunately they forgot to register www.introducingmonday.co.uk - as you will see if you take a look!! ____________ EGOTIST, n. A person of low taste, more interested in himself than in me. Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary --- This message has been scanned for computer viruses and none have been detected. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com) Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 05/06/2002

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Newbie installing Mandrake
by Kelly Ash 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

I am a total newbie to Linux and will be installing Mandrake 8.2 soon. Within all of the reference material I have, it suggests that you install Linux on it's own hard drive whenever possible, and that's what I intend to do. BUT, as I read on, it doesn't refer to a separate drive only how you may need to partition when running Windows on the same machine. I'm confused! I have 2 hard drives and am running Windows 98se on one, the other drive is empty and NOT partitioned, awaiting Mandrake's arrival. First off, does the Linux drive need to be partitioned in any way before the install? And secondly, when I am going through the install for Mandrake will it give me the choice to install on this (second) empty drive? Thanks in advance for any advice you can give for my questions above, and I'd appreciate any 'pointers' anyone could give that will help me prepare and get through this install! Kelly

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cpu leak on sound apps
by Ricardo Campos 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

I'm getting a massive CPU leak on 2 related apps. First is GLAME, the other is SWEEP. They both 'do the same thing', that is, they are both progs for processing .wav files. They both produce 100% cpu usage when I open a .wav in them. I suspect it's not the app itself (2 massively broken apps- I doubt it), but perhaps my audio setup? They both use /dev/dsp, and use audio_in and audio_out for i/p and o/p. I used the same version of these apps with the same kernel on my Redhat installation on the same box, and don't get the same problem. I can't think what gets? -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: [Alug] cpu leak on sound apps
by Ricardo Campos 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> wrote: > One technique you may find useful for this kind of thing is to look at the > proportion of CPU time spend in the kernel (sys cpu time) and in user code > (user cpu time). I'll have a look tonight. what I have done was run top behind the app, to see exactly when the leak occurs, and what exactly happens. Both apps display a wave, you select the wave to cut it up or apply effects. I noticed then when you try to apply an effect, the app goes up to 40-50% CPU usage, and X takes up another 40-50%, giving a nice 99% no-I'm-not-going-to-do-anything-for-a-bit-sonny-jim. So I figure that maybe it's having problems redrawing the wave or something. I dunno. However, I have run this app, same version, with same version of X, same kernel, on the same computer, but with Redhat. So I was thinking, why is it now buggering X? (that's the technical term, you understand). EXCEPT that on this one I have patched it with the NVIDIA drivers. So I recompiled my kernel last night during IRC, and will boot into that tonight, to see if it makes a difference. If it does, then it's bugreport time. If not, then I'll have to start tracking down the libraries that the apps use (it happens on 2 of them, Sweep and GLAME). The CPU time and User CPU time may help in this too, I guess. But since all installing a new kernel is is dpkg -i newkernel.deb, I'll try that anyway. Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: [Alug] Suggestions: newsletter, IRC and name changes?
by Kelly Ash 01 Jul '02

01 Jul '02

Umm...meeting? IRC what? Could we (am I the ONLY one?) "total newbies" have our own section of the newsletter where people speak slowly and have diagrams at the ready should they be necessary? lol Does ALUG have a website? I've found a couple links to one but can never get it to load. Also, I've got some sort of OS selector on here, should I keep it or ditch it before installing Mandrake? *getting nervous now!* Kelly

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Media/LUG Contact
by Martyn Drake 01 Jul '02

01 Jul '02

Hi folks, These days I'm just too busy to deal with any incoming mail from my details appearing in the Linux magazines and on the main www.lug.org.uk web site. Would anybody mind taking over from me on these duties for welcoming and pointing new members in the right direction? I'll update the info for Lug.org.uk, Linux Format and Linux Magazine when we've got the new contact arranged. Thanks, Martyn -- Martyn Drake | Email : martyn-d(a)moving-picture.com Systems Administrator | Web : http://www.moving-picture.com The Moving Picture Company | Phone : +44 (0)20 7494 7853

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