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Humour: Introducing Monday
by Keith Watson 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

PriceWaterhouseCoopers consultancy have re-launched themselves as Monday and have setup the web site www.introducingmonday.com, unfortunately they forgot to register www.introducingmonday.co.uk - as you will see if you take a look!! ____________ EGOTIST, n. A person of low taste, more interested in himself than in me. Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary --- This message has been scanned for computer viruses and none have been detected. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com) Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 05/06/2002

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Newbie installing Mandrake
by Kelly Ash 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

I am a total newbie to Linux and will be installing Mandrake 8.2 soon. Within all of the reference material I have, it suggests that you install Linux on it's own hard drive whenever possible, and that's what I intend to do. BUT, as I read on, it doesn't refer to a separate drive only how you may need to partition when running Windows on the same machine. I'm confused! I have 2 hard drives and am running Windows 98se on one, the other drive is empty and NOT partitioned, awaiting Mandrake's arrival. First off, does the Linux drive need to be partitioned in any way before the install? And secondly, when I am going through the install for Mandrake will it give me the choice to install on this (second) empty drive? Thanks in advance for any advice you can give for my questions above, and I'd appreciate any 'pointers' anyone could give that will help me prepare and get through this install! Kelly

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cpu leak on sound apps
by Ricardo Campos 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

I'm getting a massive CPU leak on 2 related apps. First is GLAME, the other is SWEEP. They both 'do the same thing', that is, they are both progs for processing .wav files. They both produce 100% cpu usage when I open a .wav in them. I suspect it's not the app itself (2 massively broken apps- I doubt it), but perhaps my audio setup? They both use /dev/dsp, and use audio_in and audio_out for i/p and o/p. I used the same version of these apps with the same kernel on my Redhat installation on the same box, and don't get the same problem. I can't think what gets? -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: [Alug] cpu leak on sound apps
by Ricardo Campos 02 Jul '02

02 Jul '02

Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> wrote: > One technique you may find useful for this kind of thing is to look at the > proportion of CPU time spend in the kernel (sys cpu time) and in user code > (user cpu time). I'll have a look tonight. what I have done was run top behind the app, to see exactly when the leak occurs, and what exactly happens. Both apps display a wave, you select the wave to cut it up or apply effects. I noticed then when you try to apply an effect, the app goes up to 40-50% CPU usage, and X takes up another 40-50%, giving a nice 99% no-I'm-not-going-to-do-anything-for-a-bit-sonny-jim. So I figure that maybe it's having problems redrawing the wave or something. I dunno. However, I have run this app, same version, with same version of X, same kernel, on the same computer, but with Redhat. So I was thinking, why is it now buggering X? (that's the technical term, you understand). EXCEPT that on this one I have patched it with the NVIDIA drivers. So I recompiled my kernel last night during IRC, and will boot into that tonight, to see if it makes a difference. If it does, then it's bugreport time. If not, then I'll have to start tracking down the libraries that the apps use (it happens on 2 of them, Sweep and GLAME). The CPU time and User CPU time may help in this too, I guess. But since all installing a new kernel is is dpkg -i newkernel.deb, I'll try that anyway. Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: [Alug] Suggestions: newsletter, IRC and name changes?
by Kelly Ash 01 Jul '02

01 Jul '02

Umm...meeting? IRC what? Could we (am I the ONLY one?) "total newbies" have our own section of the newsletter where people speak slowly and have diagrams at the ready should they be necessary? lol Does ALUG have a website? I've found a couple links to one but can never get it to load. Also, I've got some sort of OS selector on here, should I keep it or ditch it before installing Mandrake? *getting nervous now!* Kelly

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Media/LUG Contact
by Martyn Drake 01 Jul '02

01 Jul '02

Hi folks, These days I'm just too busy to deal with any incoming mail from my details appearing in the Linux magazines and on the main www.lug.org.uk web site. Would anybody mind taking over from me on these duties for welcoming and pointing new members in the right direction? I'll update the info for Lug.org.uk, Linux Format and Linux Magazine when we've got the new contact arranged. Thanks, Martyn -- Martyn Drake | Email : martyn-d(a)moving-picture.com Systems Administrator | Web : http://www.moving-picture.com The Moving Picture Company | Phone : +44 (0)20 7494 7853

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 01 Jul '02

01 Jul '02

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server uk.openprojects.net" or "/server eu.openprojects.net" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Free to a good home
by Paul 01 Jul '02

01 Jul '02

Hi Folks One ATX motherboard to take a Slot 1 Pentium (233MHz-500MHz), free to a good home. No CPU, memory or warranty. Regards, Paul.

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Today's cool toy -- distcc
by MJ Ray 01 Jul '02

01 Jul '02

Describing itself as "napster for C programmers", this handy little tool from Martin Pool allows you to use the CPU power of all the compatible hosts on your local network. Unlike some similar tools, it doesn't require them all to have the same filesystems or configuration. distcc works by running a small daemon called distccd that listens on port 4200 of each host. You probably want to be careful with that because it allows anyone with a client to run any command. I strongly suggest that you run it as a totally unprivileged user that owns no files (eg make a new normal user called "distcc"), only run it when you're actually going to use it, restrict it to hosts that you control with iptables and so on. Generally, be a bit paranoid about it. The reason to use it is performance. On small compiles, it only shows itself marginally. Using distcc to build itself across two hosts here shows an improvement from 42.24 seconds to 24.78 seconds. Of course, there's normally a lot more than a straight compile to building a package. Building a simple debian package of distcc, including running configure and making the archive, shows only a slight improvement from 50.54 seconds to 45.37 seconds[1]. Still, it'll be worth having on larger projects. Apart from security, the other drawbacks (besides security) are that the network usage can go through the roof for large compiles (so, as for security, you probably don't want to do this on public systems on a public network) and that usage is currently restricted to gcc. It is a fairly young program, though, so who knows where this might go? Getting started with distcc is fairly easy. You just download the code from http://distcc.samba.org/ and compile it. It's not a very big compile, which is fortunate, because you can't use it to compile itself before you've compiled it for the first time... after that, you might find yourself wanting to use it for every compile! [1] -- No, that doesn't make sense. I don't understand either. OK, the above is uploaded as http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?DistCc under the TipsTripsAndWorkarounds category, so feel free to improve it. If you want to ask me more questions, post to the list. -- MJR ,---------------------------------------------------- | Q. Do you need a net-based application developing, | or advice and training about web technology? | A. I suggest you try http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Suggestions: newsletter, IRC and name changes?
by MJ Ray 30 Jun '02

30 Jun '02

OK, this is actually a companion email to one going out in tonight's ALUG announce about the hosting changes, but here it is first, thanks to the way these things are scheduled. Newsletter: Please write or forward more interesting announcements to the newsletter address announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk because I'd like to put out more editions than one every week or so. IRC meetings: OPN is currently having even more problems than before. In addition to the netsplits, the most powerful of its IRC operators sending spam global notices at least twice daily now to raise money for himself. Despite a crushingly bad financial situation, he seems determined to hold onto complete control and incorporate the network as a Texas company. I've said before that I'd like us to move to a UK network, possibly either irc.underground.org.uk or irc.blitzed.org, but other suggestions (eg good chat servers) are welcomed. Name changes: A fully working non-Linux-kernel GNU is supposed to be released in the next six months. Should ALUG change its name (Anglian Local Users of Gnu -- ALUG?) to reflect this? We've always discussed other free software than just Linux anyway, IIRC, but I think 99% of members use GNU software. -- MJR ,---------------------------------------------------- | Q. Do you need a net-based application developing, | or advice and training about web technology? | A. I suggest you try http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Alug in Dutch
by Adam Bower 30 Jun '02

30 Jun '02

hehe, someone from Belgium popped onto irc last night and left us a url pointing to this jem =) http://sunsite.belnet.be/alug/ Adam -- Adam Bower "a funny thing about regret is, that it's better to regret something you have done, than to regret something you haven't done"

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Re: [Alug] Newbie installing Mandrake
by Kelly Ash 29 Jun '02

29 Jun '02

Thanks, will be installing in a few days. Had my old hard drive data transferred "professionally" (LOL) on to a new drive, as I'm going to be using the old one for Linux, and I've found that 1/2 of it's missing!! Bills revenge no doubt. Once again, if anyone thinks of anything else I should know before the big day, I'd appreciate your input. Kelly

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Can you suggest Linux Graphics software?
by Karl at Plus.net 28 Jun '02

28 Jun '02

Hello, I'm a bit of a Linux beginner and would appreciate any helpful suggestions. I have a web page that produces GIF images with variable text on them (produced by PHP4). I need to find some software that I can use to produce a file of instructions that can be sent to a commercial print company to use in typesetting to produce a similar (but vastly higher quality) image for printing. Does anyone know of such a package? (I would also need to be able to programmatically control the software from one of PERL, PHP,or BASH). Thanks Karl Middleton

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Re: [Alug] Mandrake install problems Update
by Ricardo Campos 28 Jun '02

28 Jun '02

> Meanwhile, I mainly want to use the machine for C++ and possibly Perl, > ideally with some kind of user-friendly IDE. I'm sure plenty of people on ALUG have their personal favourite.... > A couple of things. During install I was asked about partitions. I chose > one at random, would that make a difference (there is no other OS on the > machine now)? Basically, probably not. If you were using it as your own mega-whizz computer, then there are things that you could do. e.g have a separate partition for /home, that way if you need to reinstall, or install a different distro, you could keep all your files in /home without having to back them up separately. > Secondly, I set it to go straight to X when I login, so Gnome > comes up straight awawy. How could I get out of that? (Ctrl-alt-bckspc?) Erk, this is where it gets a little tricky... If you have a graphical login screen, you probably have GDM installed, you could configure GDM as root using GDMconfigurator. You could then select Window Maker or whatever as the default window manager to start on login. What it sounds like, though, is that you have the Mandrake thing of logging you in immediately when you boot up. (I never liked that feature). To change that, I would have to hand that over to the rest of ALUG... Mandrake and Redhat use very custom scripts, that are a little tricky to figure out when you're not sitting at that computer. Ricardo Here's 2 screenshots of WindowMaker, btw. http://www.rscampos.net/web_snapshots/wm_tech_creat.jpg http://www.rscampos.net/web_snapshots/WM_blue_Mind.jpg -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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your 100 meg machine
by tom potts 28 Jun '02

28 Jun '02

16 meg of ram is a bit small for 'modern' linux/x86 as your machine will page a lot (save/get memory from disk) and this can slow it down enough for x86 to think things are broken. But for now try: a)Make sure you've got >64Meg of swap space so that x86 can 'fit' b)try and older version of x86 /linux - I've installed suse5.2 on a 386 with 4 meg of ram and got x86 working though its slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow c)put as much ram in your machine as you can fit - its quite cheap now! Have Fun Tom __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com

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Re: [Alug] Mandrake install problems Update
by Ricardo Campos 28 Jun '02

28 Jun '02

> you really want to set your runlevel to 3, edit /etc/inittab and edit > > id:5:initdefault > > to > > id:3:initdefault: I think Russell still wants to boot into X, just using a lighter window manager rather than Gnome (16MB RAM!). I guess it would be an .xinitrc file change. IIRC, switching to runlevel3 would mean he would have to issue a startx command. -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: [Alug] Newbie installing Mandrake
by Ricardo Campos 28 Jun '02

28 Jun '02

> First off, does the Linux drive need to be partitioned in any way before the > install? No, Linux installs usually involve a partitioning program. Mandrakes certainly does, and it's quite user friendly. >And secondly, when I am going through the install for Mandrake > will it give me the choice to install on this (second) empty drive? Yes. it will refer to the first drive as "hda", second drive as "hdb". You'll know which one is which, cos one of them will be unpartitioned! > Thanks in advance for any advice you can give for my questions above, and > I'd appreciate any 'pointers' anyone could give that will help me prepare > and get through this install! Don't use the autopartition function in Mandrake. I say that as a 'just in case' scenario. Typically you will only need 2 partitions:- root (/) and swap. Make swap 2x the size of your RAM (as a typical value). If you lack diskspace, 2 partitions is probably safest. Personally, I prefer to partition like this for a home computer:- /usr =large /home =very large /swap = 2x amount of RAM / = large-ish, (about 1.5 gig is plenty) Reasons: most new applications you install are in /usr, most data is in /home. If the worst comes to the worst and you need to reinstall, you can just 'borrow' the /usr and /home partitions, so no data lost. Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Laptop Mouse
by Ian Thompson-Bell 27 Jun '02

27 Jun '02

I have an oldish laptop PII 286 with 96M RAM on which I have run Mandrake 7.2 for quite a long time. I recently tried to install MD 8.3 but it refused to recognise my PS2 mouse. I tried to install RH 7.3 and it could not find my mouse and invited me to install in text mode, which I did. On reboot kudzu finds a PS2 mouse, installs it but then it does not work. Today I installed RH 5.2 (yes I know it is old) and it found the mouse no problem. Then installed MD 7.2 again and it finds the mouse OK. What has happened in the later distributions that have stopped them detecting something prior versions found with ease? ian

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Mandrake install problems Update
by Russell Ward 27 Jun '02

27 Jun '02

I used this solution and it appears to have worked: >mount the cdrom >insert floppy disk, then do this command:- >dd if=/mnt/cdrom/images/cdrom.img of=/dev/fd0 > >when it is done copying files, issue "reboot" or >"shutdown -r now" with the floppy in the drive, and >hey presto, the install will begin. There are still some problems when I start Gnome. These may be unconnected, at least the install completed without crashing. I will try reconfiguring XFree86. Incidentally, it is an old machine, P100 and with only 16MB RAM. It ran Win98 well enough, which was what I used on my first attempt to install from the CD. Thanks for all your replies. Regards Russell _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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Re: [Alug] Creative live5.1
by Ricardo Campos 27 Jun '02

27 Jun '02

> Hi Everybody, > > I'm trying to get my soundcard to work under Linux (SuSe 7.1) and at present > have no signal under Linux although the card works well in Win2k. I am trying > to take the digital output from the card and then feed into "whatever" when I > can eventually get a digital output. Does anyone know of a patch/driver if > such a thing exists? Yep, there definitely are. I think the ALSA drivers do this, as do the commercial OSS ones. I think the Creative ones also do. I read a few days ago about someone who did just this, and the website was quite old. I'll try and dig out the URL from my history. Your distro is probably using the emu10k1 kernel driver, which doesn't support it as far as I can tell. (I have an SB Live! too, but don't use the digi ins/outs at the mo) -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Creative live5.1
by Danny Thorp 27 Jun '02

27 Jun '02

Hi Everybody, I'm trying to get my soundcard to work under Linux (SuSe 7.1) and at present have no signal under Linux although the card works well in Win2k. I am trying to take the digital output from the card and then feed into "whatever" when I can eventually get a digital output. Does anyone know of a patch/driver if such a thing exists? Is it even possible to get this working? I'm not very optimistic about this but hopefully there will some technically inspired muso around somewhere. Danny

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Re: [Alug] ALUG early July @ King's Lynn
by uknutter＠graffiti.net 26 Jun '02

26 Jun '02

Ill try and be there :) And maybe at an ely one as well if it happens. How do i remove myself from the list? Just i am signed up with my collage email address as well as this one and im leaving collage in two days. :) If anyone wants to play my game go to http://home.graffiti.net/ddryden/ and download it. Source code is in there, It was my collage project. Dennis Dryden -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze

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Mandrake install problems
by Russell Ward 26 Jun '02

26 Jun '02

Thanks for these answers. I forgot to mention that the machine won't boot from the CD, only a or c drives. I have tried changing this in the bios setup but for some reason it only give those two options. It will boot from c drive into Linux, apparently with no problem, giving me access to the CD player (using mount/dev and so on). I would like to ask how to then reinstall the entire OS, from the CD, starting from Linux. Is there a simple command that will start the install? Cheers Russell _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

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(no subject)
by J 26 Jun '02

26 Jun '02

>> Beg borrow or steal a server and run our own. >That's effectively what tsw is. Then why not use tsw? J

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Re: [Alug] ALUG early July @ King's Lynn
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 26 Jun '02

26 Jun '02

Craigo said: >> The round table thing sounds intertesting. > >And we introduce women dressing up very nicely with tons of food in the >centre while discussing life in general ;) You can *talk* - the only women likely to be there will be most likely to be in full bike gear (including the baggy waterproofs) eating rapidly through the mountain of food. MJRay wrote: >> The round table thing sounds intertesting. > >What topic? Will Adam be able to come? He was going to do a talk on debian apt. Would anyone talk on security? I've always been hazy on this subject. Does anyone want me to see if I can bring an iPaq embedded with a modified version of debian, used to run a speech program? Was it Andrew that got the job doing graphics on none other than HP2 etc etc who was going to do a talk on how it works? Did I miss that? Jen

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