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linux laptops
by Ricardo Campos 26 Apr '02

26 Apr '02

I'm looking for a linux laptop, medium spec. I want to pay roughly around £800. I'm intrigued by www.dnuk.com, since they offer laptops with linux preinstalled, but their prices seem a little higher than I can afford. Has anyone got any tips? Should I go for a second hand laptop instead and struggle with the install myself? (yes, I DO know about www.linux-laptop.net) Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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binary symbols
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 26 Apr '02

26 Apr '02

Hi list, I'm constantly opening binary files using cat from the command line by mistake, then after quitting out the console displays all text in weird symbols. Is there anyway to reset the console when this happens? Thanks, Jen.

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Re: [Alug] linux laptops
by Ricardo Campos 26 Apr '02

26 Apr '02

> >Unless something has changed, Darwin is *not* Open Source in the OSI sense, > >ie it is not Free Software (free as in freedom). Isn't it a BSD-style license? I'm really undecided as to which I feel is 'better', as I find one more ethically acceptable, and the other more economically viable. But then I'm neither an expert on ethics or economics! > Find an x86 > machine at the same price as an Apple one and you'll probably find that > the performance/features are about equal. I agree with that wholeheartedly, at least it has been so in the past. > As for freedom, I can't say as i'm in much of a position to go hacking > around with any of OS X at the moment, plus, i can run linux on it if I > want (SuSE, Debian, Yellow Dog, Mandrake). I have to say Rob's demo of OS X really made my jaw drop. In terms of functionality,ease of use and integration, it is exactly what people want. I think Linux has a lot to learn from OS X, certainly if anyone wants it to work as a successful desktop OS. I don't think that it's any coincidence that most of the people I have met who use linux are 1)in education/research, 2) hackers (I mean programmers), 3) people who work in technical jobs, network admins etc. 4) people who have *time*. And I would admit this; if my girlfriend needed to buy a computer, I would recommend an iMac. She is artistic, not technical, she doesn't enjoy hacking computers, and she wants to take it out of the box, connect it up and start using it. Besides which, I can go exploring the BSD underneath when she's not looking ;-) Of course I wouldn't recommend M$ X-pee-pee. -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: [Alug] linux laptops
by xs＠kittenz.org 26 Apr '02

26 Apr '02

on Fri, Apr 26, 2002 at 05:07:22PM +0100, Richard Kettlewell wrote: > > > If I want to link a program with a closed source, patent-ridden, > > maggot-eaten library, isn't that up to me? After all, I don't have > > to distribute that linked program, nor the source modifications, if > > there are any. > > It's not at all clear to me that the GPL (assuming that's what you're > moaning about) actually prohibits you from doing this. Well, the last bit of /usr/src/linux/COPYING says: This General Public License does not permit incorporating your program into proprietary programs. If your program is a subroutine library, you may consider it more useful to permit linking proprietary applications with the library. If this is what you want to do, use the GNU Library General Public License instead of this License. and then http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCWritingFSWithNFLibs *shrug* > Furthermore, I believe you could distribute the modified source under > section 2, even though it would only be useful in conjunction with a > non-free library. Until there was a free version of the library (motif/lessif..) > >> Nothing requires a developer to use the "or any later version" > >> clause in their declaration, but many do. > > > > And GNU doesn't explicitly say you can leave it out. Many people > > writing software for free, can't afford lawyers. > > I think they can employ common sense though. Courts can't necessarily.

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Re: [Alug] Mac OS X, *BSD and GPL
by Ricardo Campos 26 Apr '02

26 Apr '02

> IMHO, wanting to twiddle and code stuff doesn't make you a nerd, or even > abnormal. hmmm.... I disagree I think, at least at home. If you mean adjusting your desktop wallpaper and having themes for XMMS/KDE/Sawfish/etc. then I agree. If you mean fiddling with config files, for days and days and days (not to mention recompiling kernels etc) just to get one peripheral working, then I disagree. In respects to business/research use, no it is not abnormal at all. Other than my left of left wing politics, my frustrations with administering Lotus Notes/SQL Server/NT, led me to Linux. "But WHY can't I change it??????" > Any fool can program, and most do. You're trolling, right? The only way I can make sense of this statement, is that you find programming easy, and that you only hang out with programmers. Outside of ALUG I only know 2 people who program, both of which are professional programmers. I know at least 100 people who use computers... (not to mention the 300 users I have on my network) >The idea is making the > -option- of Free Software available to as many of the 'want out of box > solution' > crowd, while making it clear that you don't really need to be a 'nerd' to > work with a Free system. I was never disputing that. Most of this tweaking wouldn't be needed if you could buy a pooter with a GNU/Linux installation pre-installed and preconfigured for your hardware. What I am disputing is the assumption that everyone will find GNU/Linux easy to use, install and maintain. I am only now confident after what, 7 months of using it. I install debian, and realise I'm gonna have to spend more free time learning *that*, cos everything is sufficiently different from my last distro. (If the weather gets better then that's just not going to happen!) And anyway, being a'nerd' is "cool" these days. ;) -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: [Alug] Mac OS X, *BSD and GPL
by Ricardo Campos 26 Apr '02

26 Apr '02

Well, we're going round in semantic/political circles now. When it comes to general world-view as to people's ethical inclinations, feel free to e-mail me off-list. > Fair enough. In time, you'll learn never to make a point about licencing > within earshot of Mark :-) Yes, but I enjoy him putting on his Stallman/Jesus beard (although I am not suggesting Jesus was caucasian like Stallman). And I like playing devil's advocate. Besides which, I value the points made in the debate. Oh yeah, and it's friday, and no-one phones tech support on friday. If all the routers went down, people would just go home rather than bother calling us. So I have time on my hands. ;) -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Mac OS X, *BSD and GPL
by Ricardo Campos 26 Apr '02

26 Apr '02

#Sets subject to the new branch of this thread >I think you have a different objective for economics >to me. Possibly, possibly not. I made no mention of *my* ideals, it wasn't the point I was making. The point I was making is that the majority of people *prefer* the capitalistic way. I think GPL is too radical to be practical (regardless of whether I believe it's the the right way or not), since there are a lot of fat cats to persuade... >I want a free and fair market, I do too. I find capitalism to be coercive and unfair. I prefer small companies to have the freedom to compete, rather than a single monopoly. >while it sounds like you want a way for companies to >grow fat from cheap/free labour of programmers. Not me. But most companies DO. </snipped out my personal politics rant!> >> I don't think that it's any coincidence that most of the people I have met >> who use linux are .... > >Maybe it's just that we become one of the above, >empowered by the ability to do so? Errr... yes/no. Yes, in the sense that I, for example, have just applied for an MSc in Software Development (mostly OO stuff) and my last degree was in Pharmacology- I attribute my wish to code as 99.999% due to GNU/Linux. It has absoloutely nothing to do with their 32 processor Beowulf cluster, honest. But then, I was already working in IT, and I never (well, maybe once a month) watch TV, so when the pub's not an option, I'm fiddling with my computer, or reading a book. I am far from normal. I am a nerd. No, as most people don't have the time, intelligence or the patience (particularly the patience) to fiddle with their computer. They want it to be as easy and convenient as a TV, although I'll be buggered if I understand how my parents digital TV works. Basically, I was making a point of practicality for the BSD licence, rather than an idealistic or personal one. So, who's for Microsoft Windows BSD-XP? ;) -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: Mac OS X, *BSD and GPL
by MJ Ray 26 Apr '02

26 Apr '02

Ricardo: > Possibly, possibly not. I made no mention of *my* ideals, it wasn't the > point I was making. The point I was making is that the majority of people > *prefer* the capitalistic way. I think GPL is too radical to be practical > (regardless of whether I believe it's the the right way or not), since > there are a lot of fat cats to persuade... Capitalism is a system based on general private ownership of capital, not the modern phenomenon of consolidation of that capital in the hands of a few people. Indeed, that is usually called an oligopoly and is not the normal outcome of a fair market, so presence of such a situation is normally regarded as just cause for intervention. GPL probably is too radical: it's far more capitalistic than our system. > Basically, I was making a point of practicality for the BSD licence, > rather than an idealistic or personal one. As was I. The BSD licence allows anyone to attempt to pervert the market by fencing off their patch of the commons. As the commons in this situation is infinite, normal fencing is inadequate. Each market being fenced off is infinite and that isn't permitted by a capitalist system. That's why copyrights and patents expire eventually: if they do not, they cannot exist in a capitalist system. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Mac OS X, *BSD and GPL
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 26 Apr '02

26 Apr '02

Ricardo wrote: >So I have time on my hands. That was a foolish admission. You know that poster??? :-) (Linux Install Day folk never got back to me) Jen

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RE: [Alug] binary symbols
by alasdair.i.macleod＠bt.com 26 Apr '02

26 Apr '02

try reset<CR> you may not see what you're typing but it should work. -----Original Message----- From: Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com [mailto:Jenny_Hopkins@toby-churchill.com] Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 9:38 AM To: main(a)lists.alug.org.uk Subject: [Alug] binary symbols Hi list, I'm constantly opening binary files using cat from the command line by mistake, then after quitting out the console displays all text in weird symbols. Is there anyway to reset the console when this happens? Thanks, Jen. _______________________________________________ main(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above!

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SCSI woes
by John Freeman 26 Apr '02

26 Apr '02

I've been stuck in a conundrum with trying to play audio CD's as a normal user (works perfect as root). Recently I had to change the way my ATAP CD/RW was probed at boot time. I am now using SCSI emulation, whereby /dev/cdrom now points to sr0 rather than /dev/hdd. lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 Apr 24 19:37 /dev/cdrom -> sr0 brw-rw---- 1 root disk 11, 0 Apr 13 1999 sr0 brw-rw---- 1 root disk 11, 0 Apr 24 19:25 scd0 The user in question *is* a member of the disk group, so the read/write permissions are correct. Is there another reason why I get the following error with cdparanoia: /dev/cdrom exists but isn't accessible. By default, cdparanoia stops searching for an accessible drive here. Consider using -sv to force a more complete autosense of the machine. More information about /dev/cdrom: Checking /dev/cdrom for cdrom... Testing /dev/cdrom for cooked ioctl() interface /dev/sr0 is not a cooked ioctl CDROM. Testing /dev/cdrom for SCSI interface No generic SCSI device found to match CDROM device /dev/sr0 *The same error still occurs if /dev/cdrom points to /dev/sdc0 too -John Freeman-

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Converting files to pdf???
by Dryden 25 Apr '02

25 Apr '02

I need to try converting kword files to pdf any idea's? Would installing open office doit?... Dennis Dryden ********************************************************************** IMPORTANT: This email and its attachments are intended for the addressee only and may be confidential. If they have come to you in error you must take no action based on them nor must you copy or show them to anyone; please telephone us immediately. The contents of this email and attachments represent the views of the sender and are not necessarily the representative of the views of The College of West Anglia **********************************************************************

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Re: [Alug] linux laptops
by Dryden 25 Apr '02

25 Apr '02

Well im runing Mandrake 8.2 on a Dell latitude CPi 266MHz 128Mb ram... and its doing allright. I only have two problems... Its got a CS42xx sound chipset and it crashes hard witha defult mandrake kernal when i close the lid(it seems to start spining the cd drive). Also i get a crashing problem when running gnome... but kde is fine. Ive also tryed mandrake 8.0 befor upgrading to 8.2 and i have the same problems... Nuatilas(gnome file manager) used to crash my system when a ran it :(. I know its an old system but it works well anoth and cost £500 snd hand a few months ago... (i dont wana know if ive been riped off). -----Original Message----- From: "Ricardo Campos" <corez23(a)linuxmail.org> To: main(a)lists.alug.org.uk Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:30:02 +0000 Subject: [Alug] linux laptops I'm looking for a linux laptop, medium spec. I want to pay roughly around £800. I'm intrigued by www.dnuk.com, since they offer laptops with linux preinstalled, but their prices seem a little higher than I can afford. Has anyone got any tips? Should I go for a second hand laptop instead and struggle with the install myself? (yes, I DO know about www.linux-laptop.net) Ricardo -- ********************************************************************** IMPORTANT: This email and its attachments are intended for the addressee only and may be confidential. If they have come to you in error you must take no action based on them nor must you copy or show them to anyone; please telephone us immediately. The contents of this email and attachments represent the views of the sender and are not necessarily the representative of the views of The College of West Anglia **********************************************************************

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Re: [Alug] linux laptops
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 25 Apr '02

25 Apr '02

Ricardo Campus wrote: >Has anyone got any tips? Should I go for a second hand laptop instead and struggle with the install myself? (yes, I >DO know about www.linux-laptop.net) One of the first things i did as a moderate newbie was stuff debian onto a toshiba satellite 2300cds, it was not a lot of problem, even X. And then a year later I got the winmodem and pc card working. Plus it is always more satisfying blowing out the original brains of a computer with a smug "ms" sticker on the outside. Jen.

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Re: [Alug] Re: EXT2 ->EXT3
by Ricardo Campos 25 Apr '02

25 Apr '02

> I have a 120Gig RH7.2 ext3 drive and take delight in > the fact I can power off at random and get back to > working in under a minute! Yep, Ext3 utterly rocks. Can't imagine going back to ext2 out of choice, and it's absoloutely no hassle to set up. Anyone know if it is going to be in the next Debian release? (i.e. is it in testing at the mo?) Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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ReiserFS with SuSE ??
by alasdair.i.macleod＠bt.com 25 Apr '02

25 Apr '02

Talking of file systems. I've tried to make a SuSE 7.1 install with ReiserFS but the install keeps failing. I've done a search of news groups etc and seen people mention the same problem - but no solution. Anyone know anything about this? The partitioning goes OK but the install fails during the package install phase (using Yast1 & 2). cheers, Alasdair. -----Original Message----- From: Ricardo Campos [mailto:corez23@linuxmail.org] Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:22 AM To: madtom1999 Cc: main(a)lists.alug.org.uk Subject: Re: [Alug] Re: EXT2 ->EXT3 > I have a 120Gig RH7.2 ext3 drive and take delight in > the fact I can power off at random and get back to > working in under a minute! Yep, Ext3 utterly rocks. Can't imagine going back to ext2 out of choice, and it's absoloutely no hassle to set up. Anyone know if it is going to be in the next Debian release? (i.e. is it in testing at the mo?) Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze _______________________________________________ main(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above!

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Re: EXT2 ->EXT3
by tom potts 25 Apr '02

25 Apr '02

I believe (but then I'm gullible) that ext3 is a sort of add-on to ext2 and is backward compatible! http://www.redhat.com/support/wpapers/redhat/ext3/why.html Your disk behaves like ext2 but with added bits. If your system doesnt crash then the disk is a valid ext2 disk as well as ext3 so can be mounted and read by ext2 only systems. Of course if you modify the ext2 data and then run ext3 there may be problems as the journaling will be 'out of whack'. I have a 120Gig RH7.2 ext3 drive and take delight in the fact I can power off at random and get back to working in under a minute! Tom __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com

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Re: [Alug] Kernel 2.4.18
by Ricardo Campos 24 Apr '02

24 Apr '02

> the trouble is leaving the Symmetric multi-processing support in the kernel. Time for another Ricardo Simpson 'Doh!' moment... I was going to say at the last ALUG meet that I had exactly the same problem, until I realised I was booting an SMP kernel, instead of a uniprocessor one. When I switched over, I found that it would power down OK. Oops, could've saved you some time! Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Kernel 2.4.18
by John Seago 24 Apr '02

24 Apr '02

Thank you Mark, and all who offered advice, Mark's solution solved my problem first go, my box now shuts itself down, and I've made a boot disk for it. Thank you Mark! -- John Seago

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Administrivia: contrib and main list
by MJ Ray 24 Apr '02

24 Apr '02

In a fit of mental cruelty not seen for some time, I've connected the wiki templates up to the XML/XSL generation system that does the main site. The contrib pages now look more like the main site. Scary, eh? Also, in a fit of petty baby-eating, emails to the list with a subject line of "Re: main digest ..." etc will be bounced. It does ask you to edit the subject line on replies, after all, and it's hard to tell what its about before opening if the subject line is useless. Goodnight, cruel world.

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Re: [Alug] Converting from EXT2 to EXT3
by DanI 23 Apr '02

23 Apr '02

Thanks John it works good. Im learning new stuff everyday :-)... ...Daniel Simpleman --- John Freeman <root(a)layla-studios.co.uk> wrote: > 1) Make sure you have ext3 compilied into the kernel > (its easier this way > rather than a module, otherwise you have to set up > initial ram disks and > things) > > 2)type mount -v > this will show all partitions mounted as ext2 > > i.e > /dev/hdc3 on / type ext2 (rw) > /dev/hdc1 on /boot type ext2 (rw) > /dev/hda1 on /home type ext2 (rw) > > 3) for each partition type: > > tune2fs -j /dev/hdX > > where X is the partition letter > > 4) edit /etc/fstab and change ext2 to ext3 > > 5) reboot and voila, ext3 > > > On Tuesday 23 Apr 2002 1:55 pm, DanI wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone could tell me how to > convert > > from EXT2 to EXT3 without loosing (formatting) all > my > > stuff on my hard drive... > > > > ...Daniel Simpleman > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > main(a)lists.alug.org.uk > > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ > > http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main > > Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site > above! > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com

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Converting from EXT2 to EXT3
by DanI 23 Apr '02

23 Apr '02

I was wondering if anyone could tell me how to convert from EXT2 to EXT3 without loosing (formatting) all my stuff on my hard drive... ...Daniel Simpleman __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com

2 1

mac quadra 950
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 23 Apr '02

23 Apr '02

>After dire warnings from CamLUG it's offical MJR has become a despot! :-) Perhaps it will happen to us all eventually. That mac quadra rescued from a skip I mentioned on IRC last night is a 950 by the way. A quick google search tells me to install linux on this machine you need patience, skill and patience.... Oh, and spare time. Jen

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Kernel 2.4.18 Power Off
by John Seago 23 Apr '02

23 Apr '02

I was using the 2.4.18 kernel and had managed to compile it so that it switched of the machine when the shutdown process reached its end. I re-insalled my Slackware 8 system and re-compiled the 2.4.18 Kernel, however I cannot seem to get the permutations back to the way they were during my previous use of the 2.4.18 kernel, and now I cannot get it to shut down my machine, despite some 32 attempts. I made enquiries at yesterday's meeting at Elmswell, (thank you Rob), and it appears that this problem affects others as well. Mark did give me some information as to how I could overcome this problem, unfortunately I did not write it down, and my latest attempts have yet to produce a kernel which will shut down the Computer at the end of the shutdown process. Any help anyone can offer on this subject will be gratefully received. -- John Seago

4 3

Gnome stones
by Douglas Thompson 22 Apr '02

22 Apr '02

Hi again, Another prob with mandrake8.1: Gnome stones won't start when I click new game. Will this be better in 8.2? DougT

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