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Xv
by Ricardo Campos 12 Mar '02

12 Mar '02

This may be a little silly but- anyone know how to take a screenshot of a desktop that has an Xv application (i.e. Ogle) playing on it? As Xv runs ontop of the desktop, you just get a blue screen normally. Minor problem, but annoying. ;) Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Linux Web awards
by Ricardo Campos 12 Mar '02

12 Mar '02

Linux Format did a poll to see what their readers felt were the best internet applications. http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15903 Just thought you might be interested! Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Announcing a new subscriber
by peter.salmon＠ipswich.gov.uk 12 Mar '02

12 Mar '02

Dear penguinophiles, I have just subscribed to ALUG. I have been burrowing at Ipswich for less than three years after heady life in the City and academia (a kind of nut). I may not count as a true linutter as I support but three Linux servers which are RedHat 6.2 amidst a seething mass of Unix and M$NT but I am actively promoting the obvious & self evident advantages of Linux from within. I have successfully migrated a couple of Informix database systems and over 150 users from unix to linux and use Samba to seamlessly link & transfer data to and from M$NT servers and mainframe (ICL Trimetra). I am about to attempt installing Samba on a SCO unix server. I have just started a new project to create a linux based database system with web browser form access. Unfortunately the rapid and reliable linux server will be clamped to an ISS Web server servicing the users. Most of the difficulties I've experienced in implementation have taken much web searching and experimentation to resolve. There is an awful lot of information available but rarely an answer specific to my proble. Still I've learned a lot in experimenting and am willing to throw in my thruppenceworth if I can help. Regards, Peter Salmon Ipswich Borough Council Information Technology Room 1005 Civic Centre Civic Drive Ipswich Suffolk IP1 2EE United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0)1473 433220 (Direct) Fax: +44 (0)1473 433898 Email: peter.salmon(a)ipswich.gov.uk Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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Re: [Alug] Intro
by Ricardo Campos 11 Mar '02

11 Mar '02

> Basically I'm a bit of a Linux newbie, running a P133 at home that > I built from bits that have been scrounged from various sources or > rescued from a skip (not exactly flush with cash you see). Welcome to the list! Actually, one of my friends has asked me to install 'linux' (of some description/distro, I'll let him decide) on his home computer, so hopefully we'll have yet another! eek! Those damn penguins keep multiplying! ;) Ricardo (I voted for Cthulhu, but the Greater Evil won!) -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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RE: [Alug] backup puzzle
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 11 Mar '02

11 Mar '02

Ted Harding wrote: >You may, therefore, get a clue by have a look at what's >inside. >Try, in the first place, > tar tzvf trx-090302.tgz > tar tzvf trx-100302.tgz >and compare it with what it should be. Ted: It seems to start off then stop with "unexpected EOF" message thusly: tar: Unexpected EOF in archive tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now I just can't see anything unusual in the place it stops each time, midway in a directory. Thanks, Jenny.

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debian pismo?
by david casal 11 Mar '02

11 Mar '02

Hi list, My uea department lent me a powerbook G3 pismo, and I'm thinking of running debian on it. Looking around on the net, it seems a fine thing to do. Before I get downloading ISO's and repartitioning, anyone have any comments/suggestions/experiences? Cheers, DC david casal --0+ --- d.casal(a)uea.ac.uk --9+ --- www.ariada.uea.ac.uk/~dcasal --)+

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Intro
by mtm＠sys.uea.ac.uk 11 Mar '02

11 Mar '02

Hi! I just subscribed to the list here..... Basically I'm a bit of a Linux newbie, running a P133 at home that I built from bits that have been scrounged from various sources or rescued from a skip (not exactly flush with cash you see). I've been runnning Corel 1.1 for a while but haven't played with it much as I'm really only using the box for playing MP3's and learning perl. Anyway, I'm hoping to pick up some tips from the more advanced local penguin worshipers on the list. :-) -- >==============================================================< Michael Morton | Cthulhu loves me, this I know. School of Information | In my dreams he tells me so, Systems, University | And when the stars are finally right, of East Anglia, Norwich | He will give you such a fright. >==============================================================<

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backup puzzle
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 11 Mar '02

11 Mar '02

Hello, all! I have a backup script that is puzzling me. When I run it manually from the command line (as root) it quite happily goes off and makes a nice tarball of specified directories and plops it as a dated file of some 50Meg into a samba-mounted directory on the main ntserver, so it can be grabbed by the backup tape running from there. However, when i set it as a cron task (for root) it only makes a tiny little file, every single time. I thought it may be a samba share problem so i set it to back up to a linux directory and then copy it over, but it still only makes this tiny file. Contents of the back-up file: the weekend ones were the ones scheduled to run by cron, and the big one one where I ran it a moment ago from the command line. -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 14211 Mar 9 22:00 trx-090302.tgz -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 14211 Mar 10 22:00 trx-100302.tgz -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 49334571 Mar 11 11:29 trx-110302.tgz And here is my backup script (please don't laugh at it though!): #!/bin/bash OF=/backup/trx-$(date +%d%m%y).tgz tar -cvzf $OF /var/www/ /home/cvs And finally what i have set crontab for root for: 0 22 * * * /root/trxbackup Can anyone see anything daft I've done? Thanks, Jenny.

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Re: Commercial content // was Re: [Alug] March Meeting (Was: The Online Directory of Linux Commands)
by Ricardo Campos 11 Mar '02

11 Mar '02

>> PS - Where is everyone else from the list? I've never known it so quiet. My linux box is working fine!!! Hurrah! So, no posts! (I'm waiting for the Epic Journey of Ricardo Adding (well, NOT adding as the case might be) a USB CD Writer for AFTER my holiday) >To everyone else: what level of commercial content >is acceptable on the web site? Could we have some sort of poll for this on a case by case basis? I suspect there won't be a HUGE demand for advertising etc on our site. I, for one, would NOT like to see banners on the site, but needs must when the devil drives... >Do you care where people work and if they tell you? I do, I find it interesting sometimes. Especially if they're applying linux to the commercial world. I'm currently trying to get out of using Win NT/2K, so to see that it can be done in the real world with linux is encouraging for me. I guess I'd be annoyed if people said "I work for www.microsoft.com" . But there ya go... Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: Commercial content // was Re: [Alug] March Meeting (Was: The Online Directory of Linux Commands)
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 11 Mar '02

11 Mar '02

MJRay wrote: >I'm working hard and being quiet on lists after getting a bout of the blues >following being flamed many times by multiple authors at the start of the >weekend. Pshaw, don't let the wrangle with clug get to you....I've never known such a fuss build up about a simple inoffensive remark, why - even *I* don't get all puffed up and irate about nothing like that..... Don't be quiet. Please. We demand your verbosity. >I won't be able to do the 24th either, but don't let that stop the rest of >you. As 100 per cent of the repliers so far can't make 24th, shall we confirm Sunday 14th April at Elmswell for the next meeting? Being a triple virgo, I feel the need to be writing the next meeting in my diary in ink. >To everyone else: what level of commercial content is acceptable on the web >site? Do you care where people work and if they tell you? If people give >us stuff, can they appear on the web site in return? Personally, I really don't mind. As long as they don't have banners that flash. Jenny.

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Re: [Alug] March Meeting (Was: The Online Directory of Linux Commands)
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 11 Mar '02

11 Mar '02

Robert Tillyard wrote: > If 24th is OK with everybody I can do Elmswell that > Sunday, otherwise 14th April onwards. What do you all > think? I don't think I can make a meeting on 24th, alas....but where is Elmswell? I might be able to fiddle it. I've been committed to spending the weekend in Hunstanton, yeurgh. PS - Where is everyone else from the list? I've never known it so quiet.

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The Online Directory of Linux Commands
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 11 Mar '02

11 Mar '02

Hi All: For anyone who hasn't got a copy of the O'Reilly book. BTW: Have we got a meeting this month? Jen >Free online at onlamp.com... >The Directory of Linux Commands offers the >description and options for 379 commands for >Linux users, programmers, and administrators. >All commands are extracted from O'Reilly's >best-selling book, Linux in a Nutshell, 3rd Edition. >It's pretty cool; find the command you need, click on it to >to get a description and list of available options. http://www.oreillynet.com/linux/cmd/

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 11 Mar '02

11 Mar '02

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server uk.openprojects.net" or "/server eu.openprojects.net" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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And now a DNS question....
by Simon 06 Mar '02

06 Mar '02

Hi again.... Just been asked at work if it's possible to setup the DNS server (Bind9 RH6.2), to not only resolve addresses on the public side, but for internal users on a private IP range to have say www.domain.com resolved to a private IP if it's on the internal network.. That's not too clear is it... e.g. www.domain.com normally resolves to a public IP want internal users to resolve it to a private IP... Is this done using acl's ? TIA Simon P.S. Sorry if it's still not that clear...

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Linux quotas for Sendmail.....
by Simon 06 Mar '02

06 Mar '02

Hi guys... I'm having a few problems understanding how the quotas work.... I want to enable quotas for mail users, so would I enable the quotas on the group (which they are all in) and apply it to the partition /var/spool/mail.... Does this mean that say if one user uses all the space, the quota is applied to all the users in the group? If so how would I get around this as I need to limit the mailbox size for each user down to a reasonable amount.. Bear in mind that I have 3500 users on here, so is there an easy answer for this or have I lots of work ahead of me ? TIA Simon P.S. RH7.2 Sendmail9

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CGI Pointers please...
by Simon 05 Mar '02

05 Mar '02

Hi Guys, Does anyone know of any good links to help me, I'm trying to query a database (Postgresql) in CGI, I can get the database open without any problems, just trying to get any data displayed is the problem... TIA Simon

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'hello' from new member
by David Eisenhart 05 Mar '02

05 Mar '02

Hello all, I've just joined ALUG. I am new to Linux and love what I have seen so far. However I am getting very frustrated by my slow progress - having been cosseted by Windows features such as plug and play and one click type software installations I'm finding it very difficult to even get to first base with Linux. This is despite having invested in 2 good Linux books! It's all so new!! My short/medium term ambition is to be able to connect a modem to my (Suse) Linux machine, download and install the latest Apache, PHP and MySQL and go from there ... .. (I'm also new to the area having recently moved from Oxfordshire to Manningtree, near Colchester). looking forward to getting to know you all ..... best regards, David

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Re: [Alug] Linux Install Day 2002
by Steve Fosdick 04 Mar '02

04 Mar '02

On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:58:18 MJ Ray wrote: > 3. I've been saying "let's promote Free Software rather than Open > Source" ;) Perhaps someone who has studied this field in more detail could comment on the distinction between the two. I have just tried reading a couple of documents to brush up on this and found to my surprise that the "Open Source Software Definition" [http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition_plain.html] reads as a slighly edited version of the "Debian Free Software Guidelines" [http://www.uk.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines]. I'd always regarded open source as a wider field with Free Software being the purer core, but where is the line to be drawn. Moving on to promoting Free Software: 1. Some of the benefits of free software (e.g. customisiing it) only accrue to those who have the skill to work on it, or have the resources to hire someone who does have the necessary skill. 2. Other benefits (cheap copies and free redistribution) are more valuable to the honest. What can we offer someone who says "That's all very well but I can get a copy of Win2KPro from my mate". The answer, of course, is a clear concience. Of course, the clincher is if people can see that there are high quality applications to do the kind of things they want to do with their PCs, so the list of applications to demo is definitely a way to go. Steve.

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March
by MJ Ray 04 Mar '02

04 Mar '02

Hi all, Isn't it time we arranged and confirmed the March meeting? Rob, you offered to hold a meeting at Elmswell. Is that possible for March? What date would you like? Thanks, -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Linux Install Day 2002
by Alexis 04 Mar '02

04 Mar '02

<cut like coleslaw> On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, MJ Ray wrote: > > 1. Some of the benefits of free software (e.g. customisiing it) > > only accrue to those who have the skill to work on it, or have > > the resources to hire someone who does have the necessary skill. > > There's another part to this benefit: the freedom to study it and gain that > skill required to modify it. Like a recipe book, free software allows you > to try things out and modify the recipes. I suspect a lot of us have gained > from this freedom in the past. Another benefit is that other people can work on the software on your behalf. If you really want it, you can pay them to do it, without risking lock-in. So developers are forced to produce good quality code or lose the contract. > > 2. Other benefits (cheap copies and free redistribution) are more > > valuable to the honest. What can we offer someone who says > > "That's all very well but I can get a copy of Win2KPro from my mate". > > The answer, of course, is a clear conscience. > > For companies, it's rather easier. No-one company can afford to act > illegally. No-one wants a visit from the "Business Software Alliance" with > a hefty fine for copyright licence breaches. There are two alternatives: > you spend a lot of money on licence purchase and licence enforcement (the > hidden cost of proprietary software); or you embrace Free Software. Yes, > there are some conversion costs today, but then it's cheaper forever. > Really, it's a no-brainer. > > > the list of applications to demo is definitely a way to go. > > Yes, this is how to win the home users and the individuals who have the > freedom to choose what they use. They are the people who we need to target > with an event, I think. We should still have literature for the other > viewpoints (eg business, public bodies) available, but let's pick an > audience and target it. I know the standard market for Linux promotion by LUGs is home users, because we're home users and everyone, at heart, thinks other people should be how they are. However, doesn't it seem a little funny that when the case for business is a 'no-brainer', and home market (MS' traditional stronghold) is a long hard slog, we should try for the home market? A really solid case can be built, based on hard cash (licenses, downtime, $1/sec support, forced upgrade, indelible faults etc), for why every business that uses computers should use Linux. I would say that the number #1, maybe only, substantial reason companies won't switch is training. Well, there's fear of the unknown, but just say 'IBM does Linux. Who got fired for buying IBM?'. So what I'd really like to see is a business-targeted campaign, giving realistic TCO (total cost of ownership) comparisons for Linux v. MS, and promoting some of the brave companies selling support and training for Linux. While LUG support can be great, and a lot of companies would be overjoyed to get free support, many of them would probably also like at least the option of formal support. Categorisation is a risky business, but I'd say the OS market largely divides into gamers, the clueless, employees, employers and developers. Significant work has to happen before Linux has a hope of reaching gamers, and truly clueless home users (the ones who can't figure out which is the 'Refresh' button on a browser, and move windows by resizing) ought to use Mac OS X not normal Linux. Similarly, people with a PC at home only because they need it for work won't switch unless their employer does ('Please add your name to the attached Word file' ring any bells?). Finally, while developers are ripe for conversion with many potential benefits, they're either converted already, converting by themselves, or fall into another category (notably workers). The critical point are the employers, who will convert if we show them the money. Every converted employer leads a host of employees into the light. Let's see business demos and business promotion. Really, it's a no-brainer. Alexis -- When you die, you lose a very important part of your life. -- Brooke Shields For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. - H L Mencken "The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten. Where is the man who has forgotten words?" - Chuang-Tzu

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Re: [Alug] March
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 04 Mar '02

04 Mar '02

MJRay said: >Isn't it time we arranged and confirmed the March meeting? Rob, you offered >to hold a meeting at Elmswell. Is that possible for March? What date would >you like? If the May meeting is to be an awareness day and therefore more suitable for UEA or somewhere, why not have the Syleham meeting this month and the May thing at UEA? Is that possible, John? How about March 17/24/31 Syleham April 21/28 Elmswell May Linuxday UEA ? Jenny.

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 04 Mar '02

04 Mar '02

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Re: [Alug] Linux Install Day 2002
by MJ Ray 03 Mar '02

03 Mar '02

Steve: > I have just tried reading a couple of documents to brush up on this and > found to my surprise that the "Open Source Software Definition" > [http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition_plain.html] reads as a slighly > edited version of the "Debian Free Software Guidelines" > [http://www.uk.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines]. Yes, Bruce Perens, of Debian fame, helped to set up the Open Source Initiative. The DFSG are descended from the FSF definition of free software. If you take the OSI definition, "Open Source" *should* be exactly the same as "Free Software". Terms don't always get used exactly as we define them, though. While "Free Software" speaks of software and freedom from restriction, "Open Source" is purely being able to see the source code. I think Free Software is more easily explained to the layman and harder to "hijack". > I'd always regarded open source as a wider field with Free Software being > the purer core, but where is the line to be drawn. Yes, that's pretty much how it breaks down these days. "Open source" covers all sorts of proprietary software from people like Sun. Even MS supports have claimed that its offering to let certain people see certain bits of the source to Windows makes it "open source"! > 1. Some of the benefits of free software (e.g. customisiing it) > only accrue to those who have the skill to work on it, or have > the resources to hire someone who does have the necessary skill. There's another part to this benefit: the freedom to study it and gain that skill required to modify it. Like a recipe book, free software allows you to try things out and modify the recipes. I suspect a lot of us have gained from this freedom in the past. > 2. Other benefits (cheap copies and free redistribution) are more > valuable to the honest. What can we offer someone who says > "That's all very well but I can get a copy of Win2KPro from my mate". > The answer, of course, is a clear concience. For companies, it's rather easier. No-one company can afford to act illegally. No-one wants a visit from the "Business Software Alliance" with a hefty fine for copyright licence breaches. There are two alternatives: you spend a lot of money on licence purchase and licence enforcement (the hidden cost of proprietary software); or you embrace Free Software. Yes, there are some conversion costs today, but then it's cheaper forever. Really, it's a no-brainer. Another benefit you haven't mentioned is the inability of anyone else to take your data away from you. How many times have proprietary software changed formats incompatibly, leaving you with no conversion tool and no way to get the old version of the program? Even worse, have you ever had a company go bust and then your computer dies? Even if you had backups, if you need an "activation key" when you install it on the new machine, you're stuck again. > Of course, the clincher is if people can see that there are high quality > applications to do the kind of things they want to do with their PCs, so > the list of applications to demo is definitely a way to go. Yes, this is how to win the home users and the individuals who have the freedom to choose what they use. They are the people who we need to target with an event, I think. We should still have literature for the other viewpoints (eg business, public bodies) available, but let's pick an audience and target it. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Linux Install Day 2002
by MJ Ray 02 Mar '02

02 Mar '02

Paul: > A few suggestions for "Useful Apps" > Spreadsheet - Kspread Gnumeric, siag. > Wordprocessor - Kword (when it doesn't crash), LyX. AbiWord, pw and I guess OpenOffice. > Graphics packages - Gimp, ImageMagic, gphoto. Sketch, Impress (possibly) > Games - Just to pander to the M$ wimps. bzflag network game anyone? :) Communications are a very strong point not to be forgotten: GNUmail, LuserNET, Mozilla, etc. Probably the small armada of server tools should be demo'd, even if we focus on desktop affairs. Anyway, we should all add reviews to the web site, shouldn't we? I've been very bad about that, too. A quick appeal, though -- please put your name on pages, especially if you're going to talk about things like "the author has never...". ;-) -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Linux Install Day 2002
by MJ Ray 02 Mar '02

02 Mar '02

Adam: > It may be even better to call it "Linux day" to just raise profile and > awareness of GNU/Linux (although we should also perhaps be thinking of > other Free and alternative OS), just I don't like the idea of doing > installs on other peoples machines who don't know *anything* about linux OK, here's what else has been going on that I know about so far: 1. AFFS have been talking about a "GNU-Day" anyway, so I've approached them about merging the two. 2. Several people have suggested leaving it until the summer to give more time for proper promotion and being able to ride on the back of the Brum Expo. 3. I've been saying "let's promote Free Software rather than Open Source" ;) > Anyway in short lets do it, UEA would be great although should we perhaps > as a group maybe have 2 seperate meetings on that day? One in Norfolk and > one in Suffolk? I presume CamLug will be doing this also as they have had > an install day before in the basement of CB2... This is probably a good idea. Would a venue in south-/mid-Suffolk be possible? My geography has suddenly gone AWOL, so I don't know if we're using one there at present. -- MJR

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