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My email block this W/E
by Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 26 Jan '02

26 Jan '02

Hi Folks, If anyone was thinking of emailing me about a lift to ALUG (or for any other purpose), please be aware that nessie.mcc.ac.uk (the machine that receives my email) will be down for most of the weekend (it seems it has already started) for a complete software upgrade. While I can still send mail, incoming mail will be queued and delivered in due course; but I won't be seeing it until nessie is back up again. Meanwhile, if needs be you can try phoning 01353 676 367 Sorry for any inconvenience, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 167 1972 Date: 26-Jan-02 Time: 13:23:00 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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My email block this W/E
by Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 26 Jan '02

26 Jan '02

Chère Edith, If you were thinking of emailing me this weekend, please be aware that nessie.mcc.ac.uk (the machine that receives my email) will be down for most of the weekend (it seems it has already started) for a complete software upgrade. While I can still send mail, incoming mail will be queued and delivered in due course; but I won't be seeing it until nessie is back up again. Meanwhile, if needs be you can try phoning 01353 676 367 Sorry for any inconvenience, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 167 1972 Date: 26-Jan-02 Time: 13:31:27 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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Dialler for X
by Edenyard 25 Jan '02

25 Jan '02

Dear Listers, Does anyone have any suggestions for me regarding a PPP dialler that will run under X? I've been persevering with Kppp for a while now, but it doesn't seem terribly stable and I'd really like to get rid of the bloat of KDE. I don't use it at all except for Kppp (much prefer icewm!), so it seems rather a waste of space to keep it just for a dialler. I've heard of Wvdial, but I understand that it's not a graphical dialler. Are there any others that you could recommend? Many thanks for any clues! Gerald.

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Lift available from Colchester on Sunday 27th
by Peter Onion 25 Jan '02

25 Jan '02

I'll be comming up form Colchester on Sunday. I can either traveling via A12/A14 or Xcountry via Haverhill. Does anyone want a lift ? Peter Onion.

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Re: [Alug] CAMRA Winter Ale Selection!
by MJ Ray 25 Jan '02

25 Jan '02

> NOT a Linux Topic [...] That's what social(a)lists.alug.org.uk is for... -- MJR

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CAMRA Winter Ale Selection!
by James 25 Jan '02

25 Jan '02

NOT a Linux Topic, but I enjoyed this - so pass on by if you are not a seeker after quality beer, suitably located. A bit late to organize our own "beer hike" I suppose... RE: 8th St.Neots Winter Ale Festival 24th-26th January (In progress) Probably the last "quiet" night, tonight... LOCATION: St.Neots Football Club ( The link road "via low bridge" roundabout exit from the A428 westbound to Bedford ) A most relaxing evening sampling a variety of "Winter Warmer" CAMRA selected Beers. Unlike the bigger CAMRA festivals, this one in my town is well hidden, and off the beaten track... Just a couple of tables in a small annex beside the football club bar, also nearly empty (Thursday Night). The theme is a regional beer selection. Hopefully it will be as quiet tonight (Friday) 7pm - 11pm Saturday ( 6pm - 12pm ) is likely to be more of the usual crush. I'll be there again, because the Tally-Ho (ABV 6.8% OG 1075) was still settling last night. If no-one can rustle up transport, with a non-drinking driver, there is a bus service. Last bus back to Cambridge 2207 from the Centre of town ( allow 30mins to walk to nearest stop from the club ) Fare from Cambridge is just over 4 pounds. Entry to non CAMRA members 2-50 AFAIR. --James 130/X30 Bus Timetable (A small PDF file) can be retrieved/viewed from: http://www.camcnty.gov.uk/sub/eandt/highways/bustimes/n.htm

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Transplanting X windows
by Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 25 Jan '02

25 Jan '02

Hi Folks, How to transplant X windows from machine to machine? Suppose I have a LAN of machines, each running various apps in different X windows and variously displaying on the local or on other machines (i.e. users have been logging in from various machines to various other machines). Now: a user, who has an app which is running on machine A and displaying on machine B, goes to machine C and wants to transplant the X window[s] from machine B so as to display on machine C, *without stopping and restarting the app on A*. The program 'xlsclients' can be used to find out the information which identifies X windows on the various machines. I guess that the X display an app appears on is "stored" in the running app itself (either picked up from the $DISPLAY for the session or set by "-display ... "), so that changing this involves sending some message to the app itself rather than to any X server. However, I don't have any idea how to send such a message (e.g. to a particular 'xterm' running on A and displaying on B, which is now wanted to display on C). Any ideas? Perhaps, as well as telling the app on A to change display to C, it may be necessary to tell the X server on B that it should stop trying to display the app; or maybe that may fall out automatically. (I guess process ownership issues don't pose a problem, since the user can log in to A or B from C as the user who owns the instance of the app). Just to make it clear: Initially, the user started the app on A while logged in from B. The user is now at C, and wants access to the app as if [s]he had logged in from C in the first place. Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 167 1972 Date: 24-Jan-02 Time: 08:42:05 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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More on the Athlon/AGP Paging "Bug"
by James 25 Jan '02

25 Jan '02

Seen on Slashdot: A link to a more detailed update on the Athlon / AGP memory paging "bug" first reported in depth by gentoo Other Mobo hardware issues - such as support chipset design may be factors in folk experiencing AGP card difficulties... See: http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/Linux/35/175/7626960/ --James

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Re: [Alug] Transplanting X windows
by MJ Ray 24 Jan '02

24 Jan '02

Just a quick though. Ted Harding: > However, this does depend on the existence of a mechanism for sending such > a message. I'm pretty sure there's no such thing in X generally, though I > can see how one might program a particular app to respond in this way if > it received a certain interrupt. Surely it would need to be done via the X events? If it's not there, it's not there... possibly sending some sort of EWMH message could do it, but then you rely on client support again and many clients can't even follow the existing specs properly. > Another marvellous utility which I /have/ used is "xmx" ("X multiplexer"), > though it's a good while since I picked it up -- I don't know whether it's > still around, still less whether it has moved on. Now, the problem with VNC is that your display of that machine's windows are in a desktop window entirely and you can't really mix them in with your own. If you can run xmx on a disconnectable display, like an xvnc server or an Xvfb one, then you could possibly do what you're asking? This depends on xmx still existing, allowing you to connect and disconnect guests while it's running, and you probably still have the colour depth to worry about. -- MJR

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XMX
by Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk 24 Jan '02

24 Jan '02

Folllowing up on xmx. It seems it has moved on. Look at http://www.cs.brown.edu/software/xmx/ Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding(a)nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 167 1972 Date: 24-Jan-02 Time: 19:45:49 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

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lifts from Norwich-Sorry!
by Ricardo Campos 24 Jan '02

24 Jan '02

Sorry to those I (provisionally) offered lifts to the next meet to, my moving house is well behind schedule (not anything to do with loading a new distro-honest guv) and I shan't be able to make it on sunday. :'( Ricardo -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: [Alug] Next Meeting - Jan 27?
by Ricardo Campos 24 Jan '02

24 Jan '02

> > Bah, you can cycle to Newton Flotman fairly easily, IIRC. ;-) > I may be moving house that weekend, but if all goes well, I'll be able to go and there'll be space for 3 (or 4) in my car. I'll be coming through the centre of Norwich if anyone wants a lift. Ricardo _______________________________________________ "There are several codes, and I know several of them." -Mr. Precise. http://www.rscampos.net Check my online diary out: http://www.rscampos.net/blog.html -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: [Alug] RedHat7.2
by MJ Ray 24 Jan '02

24 Jan '02

Mike: > Apart from open source software which for projects of any size is always > developed (and therefore sourceable) by a number of people distributed > around the world. This statement is only true about "open source software" if you mean that in the OSI sense, in which case it is somewhat clearer to say "Free Software". Once explained (ie free as in freedom, not necessarily as in price), that doesn't really have the double meaning that curses the other term. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] RedHat7.2
by Lincoln, Michael C 24 Jan '02

24 Jan '02

On Wed, 2002-01-23 at 17:39, Neill Newman wrote: > > > MJ Ray wrote: > > > > Ricardo: snip > > It's still a single source supplier and they want your data for something, > > I'm sure. > > All software, by default, is single sourced, so what's that got to do > with anything ? Apart from open source software which for projects of any size is always developed (and therefore sourceable) by a number of people distributed around the world. Mike

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Re: clug CLUG >< ALUG Transport/RH7.2 Updates
by MJ Ray 24 Jan '02

24 Jan '02

James: > Anyone coming in (by car) with the intention of moving on to > ALUG ( and coming back to Cambridge afterwards?) And able to offer > lift share space. There is myself, Doug and possibly Johnathon > looking for a lift share on Sunday. My little Fiat will be doing KL -> A10 -> noon CLUG -> 2pm ALUG 6pm -> return, assuming all is well. I could fit three in, but it would be more comfortable if I don't have to. So, we have three people and three seats... any advances? -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] RedHat7.2
by MJ Ray 24 Jan '02

24 Jan '02

Ricardo: > LOL I knew you Deb guys would bite! ;-) Well, if you will wave such a silly comparison at us ;-) > Yes, the Red Hat Update requires registration, but they do not block It's still a single source supplier and they want your data for something, I'm sure. > What I was impressed with was that I had EVERYTHING working within 4 hours > ( except the slight internet hiccup and my USB CD-writer). Leaving me time > to d o fun stuff like not using my computer. ;) Yes, but that's probably just a simple case of having a better match for their Hardware Compatibility List than you did for Debian. Debian itself is also *very* cautious in trying to autodetect things, in case it locks the machine up. > With Debian I floundered with no usable X installation for.... well, > weeks, before I gave up. [...] I still quite don't understand what your problem is there, actually. You either go with X3 and an old kernel, or use the X4s with a new kernel. Not exactly rocket science... > just saying I got this working to my satisfaction very quickly, it does every > thing I want, and does it well with the minimum of fuss. Good luck. I hope you don't get burnt by the RPM problems that put me off for life (hey, when's RPMv5 coming out? ;-) ) -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] RedHat7.2
by MJ Ray 24 Jan '02

24 Jan '02

Neill: > > > Yes, the Red Hat Update requires registration, but they do not block > > It's still a single source supplier and they want your data for something, > > I'm sure. > All software, by default, is single sourced, so what's that got to do > with anything ? "By default"? Well, debian has multiple sources of supply, including multiple distributions which you can move between. > The updates are freely available on all mirror sites, you don't /have/ > to use up2date, I don't, they aren't getting marketing info out of me ;) No, I know you have your own solutions. > > Good luck. I hope you don't get burnt by the RPM problems that put me off > > for life (hey, when's RPMv5 coming out? ;-) ) > you must be doing something wrong, I don't have any problems with RPM, Good for you. Every time they bump a major version, they seem to forget the small matter of backwards compatibility. > and now with the apt-rpm proggie dependency resolution (which seems to > be the biggest argument) the comparision between apt and rpm is very > very minimal.. The comparison isn't so much between apt and rpm, as between dpkg and rpm. dpkg's deb files contain much better dependency information (ie package namess instead of files), so I would expect apt on top of rpm has to work rather harder to resolve dependencies. I also think that rpm doesn't have as many types of relationships between packages defined, but that may have been fixed in v4. -- MJR

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CLUG >< ALUG Transport/RH7.2 Updates
by James 24 Jan '02

24 Jan '02

RE: 1) CLUG <> ALUG transportation for the Cambridge non car types 2) RedHat 7.2 Update CD situation / Nasty Kernel security bugs Folks I've only seen one post about lift sharing arrangements (from Johnathon Fine). No answers so far seen by me on the list. Can we use the CLUG list to get organized please? One kind ALUG person came back to me by private email, but may not be able to offer a lift share in their car in both directions. I plan to be at CLUG CB2 from approx 1145 onwards this Sunday. Anyone coming in (by car) with the intention of moving on to ALUG ( and coming back to Cambridge afterwards?) And able to offer lift share space. There is myself, Doug and possibly Johnathon looking for a lift share on Sunday. Posts to the CLUG list of folk with cars and vacant seat space, willing to offer lifts from/back to Cambridge would be appreciated. 2) REDHAT 7.2 Update CD Collection Work in Progress: The RedHat 7.2 Update CD I did last week is being obsoleted as I post! Do be aware of a nasty VPN DoS issue with the current production UPDATED kernel! Also, an even nastier security hazard to the 2.2 series kernel affecting all kernels <= 2.2.18 The kernel security issues are not just RedHat specific. See: https://www.redhat.com/support/errata/rh72-errata.html Downloading / collating / checking all the new KDE / Kernel / XFree updates is the biggest bandwidth burden. I won't be done with this until late Friday (_if_ the European mirrors pick up all the most recent changes overnight, which I doubt). Fingers crossed - even with only a 50K dial-up, I'll have RedHat7.2 Update collection CDrs available by Sunday. Taking orders for any CLUG or ALUG folk that want me to burn them copies if I get done in time... Minimum cost: media replacement; tips to repay the effort spent on this exercise are entirely optional, even if I am skint! --James

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RE: [Alug] Help on Mandrake 8.1 please!I had no trouble with 6.4 to 8.0 Mandrake, but what am I doing wrong
by Ricardo Campos 24 Jan '02

24 Jan '02

> Good advice from Syd it does save on downlaod time but will always be out of > date so it's well worth adding the ftp update site to the defined sources. If you're lucky enough to have a good ISP that doesn't disconnect you after 3 hours, and a unmetered connection, you can keep pretty up-to-date over a couple of nights. (I don't tend to use my phone at 4am-but keep my mobile on while it's charging in case of emergencies). The only problem is when there's a problem, which occurred once, when the ftp server itself hiccupped- aborting all cued d/l's. Of course, I could've added some mirrors... Ricardo _______________________________________________ "There are several codes, and I know several of them." -Mr. Precise. http://www.rscampos.net Check my online diary out: http://www.rscampos.net/blog.html -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Help on Mandrake 8.1 please!I had no trouble with 6.4 to 8.0 Mandrake, but what am I doing wrong
by terryfilby 24 Jan '02

24 Jan '02

> I had no trouble with 6.4 to 8.0 Mandrake, but what am I doing wrong > with 8.1. Went to Konqueror as usual, pressed Mnt and CDRom - nothing > happened. I've now tried typing in MOUNT /Dev/cdrom/ /mnt/cdrom - then - > cd /mnt/cdrom - and can then get a view of the RPM's in Konqueror, but, > afterwards I have to umount - there must be an easier way to get to the > RPM's, but what? > > Thanks > > Terry > >

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Re: [Alug] RedHat7.2
by MJ Ray 23 Jan '02

23 Jan '02

Earl, > This is not possible under Debian, you have to learn another way > (make-kpkg). No, only if you want it packaged for the distribution. You can still lob random files (eg a kernel) in random locations (eg /boot) if you want, but why make life hard for yourself? > Standards (especially de-facto) are a good thing. There should always be a > choice between the Standard and any extensions which an individual distro > may have added. The only major distribution shipping a less tailored kernel than debian, when last I looked, was Slackware. With debian, you can download a Linus kernel and compile it into a package without editing the kernel files -- how cool is that? > As I say - not knocking make-kpkg, its actually very good. But is it not > possible to alter the install files to update the apt database when > installing a kernel using make ? Only if you buggered about with the standard kernel Makefile. Debian doesn't want to do that, so you have make-kpkg. So, which do you want? Proper kernel which you can package, or buggered kernel which you can make "properly"? > PS. written word does not convey tongue firmly planted in cheek, please bare > this in mind prior to slamming me. Life's too short. :oP Indeed ;-) -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] RedHat7.2
by MJ Ray 23 Jan '02

23 Jan '02

> [...] (including up2date- their security update tool), Hrm? Doesn't that require registration? > So, I would have to reccommend it highly, even though I know some people on t > his list will have vociferous opinions against it! ;) Yes, I'd recommend Mandrake ahead of it and would probably suggest looking at the "install once, upgrade forever" Debian. Has anyone tried demudi yet? -- MJR

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RE: [Alug] RedHat7.2
by Ricardo Campos 23 Jan '02

23 Jan '02

LOL I knew you Deb guys would bite! ;-) Yes, the Red Hat Update requires registration, but they do not block freemail accounts, or require any kind of activation code for the security updates. (i.e. give em a temporary hotmail acct and fake address and name if you want) Software updates other than that are achievable through www.freshrpms.net or rpmfind.net, and doesn't require as much fiddling as Mandrake... (Mandrakes' claim of 99% compatability with RH RPMS is I think, cough, *massively* overstated). What I was impressed with was that I had EVERYTHING working within 4 hours ( except the slight internet hiccup and my USB CD-writer). Leaving me time to do fun stuff like not using my computer. ;) With Debian I floundered with no usable X installation for.... well, weeks, before I gave up. This is for a home use computer, not a server btw. You wouldn't really bother with a super-dooper Geforce AGP card in a server, would you? (well, maybe if you're fond of Quake3 on your LAN! ;) I guess time will tell whether I will prefer Deb or RH as a standalone home PC or not. I'm not saying Deb sux, I'm just saying I got this working to my satisfaction very quickly, it does everything I want, and does it well with the minimum of fuss. Anyway, there are pros and cons, hence why I'm doing a little HTML review. (eventually) ______________________________________________________ "There are several codes, and I know several of them." -Mr. Precise. http://www.rscampos.net Check my online diary out: http://www.rscampos.net/blog.html -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: [Alug] c compiler prob
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 23 Jan '02

23 Jan '02

Richard Kettlewell wrote: >Are you trying to install individual *.deb files that you have >downloaded from somewhere, or trying to use an interface such as >dselect or apt that tries to resolve dependencies for you >automatically? Using apt-get. "dpkg --audit" - executing this doesn't do anything. >My experience is that mixing 'stable' and 'testing' is more hassle >than it's worth; better to pick one and stick with it. It was more of an idiotic disaster than an intentional thing. MJRay wrote: >Jenny: > I'm getting the error message "C compiler cannot create executables" when > trying to compile something. >Is that because you don't have part of the compiler toolchain installed >(bin86 and friends)? I don't think I do - dselect is offering to install an enormous num,ber of things, including bin86. It is asking for the cdrom, which is at home alas, so I'll have to wait till tomorrow. Grrrrr. >try "apt-get --reinstall install libc6" to see if >it resolves it "reinstallation of libc6 is not possible, it cannot be downloaded" I've done apt-get clean, update and upgrade,. Many thanks to all for suggestions. I'll try dselect again tomorrow when i have the cdrom here and see if that mends its brokenness. Jenny.

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RedHat7.2
by Ricardo Campos 23 Jan '02

23 Jan '02

Thanks to Martyn, I now have RedHat 7.2 on my system at home. I'm in the process of doing a comparison between RH7.2 and Mandrake8.0 (I know that's not exactly fair!) to put up on the web. But to cut a long story short: *Jumps up and down, grins widely* IT ROCKS!!!!!! Other than the rp3 hiccup, everything works beautifully, ALL my hardware, ALL the programs, security seems good (including up2date- their security update tool), in fact some things I thought would take endless hours took a matter of a few minutes. So, I would have to reccommend it highly, even though I know some people on this list will have vociferous opinions against it! ;) Of course, this is all in the light of the AOL-TW > RH rumours, but still. It rocks. ;) _______________________________________________ "There are several codes, and I know several of them." -Mr. Precise. http://www.rscampos.net Check my online diary out: http://www.rscampos.net/blog.html -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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