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Re: [Alug] Colour printing under Linux
by Edenyard 25 Nov '01

25 Nov '01

On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:51:01 +0000, MJ Ray wrote: > Yep. Use gimp-print drivers for CUPS, ghostscript or the GIMP if your > printer is supported. I hear the latest debians have the ghostscript > drivers as standard. > Have you actually ever installed CUPS? I first of all tried using the version that came with the cover CD on Linux-Format mag. That installed and ran, but it only had a selection of about a dozen drivers, which (I gather from reading the documentation) were only intended as 'sample' drivers. When I went through the ghastly experience of installing Mandrake 8, I noticed that this had CUPS installed also, but had stacks and stacks of drivers, including something called 'DJ930C foomatic+stp-4.1.5(GIMP-Print)', which seemed to give better results than anything else with my 930C printer. Since I managed to find the relevant .ppd file buried in Mandrake, I thought that it would be a simple matter to copy the ppd file over to Slack and the Linux-Format version of CUPS. No such luck. The file was there in the index (once I'd restarted CUPS) but it wouldn't print at all. Then I removed that version of CUPS from Slack and tried installing the Mandrake .rpms (having converted them to .tgz) but that was a complete disaster. Sure, lots and lots of drivers now listed, but NONE of them would produce a test print. I'm quite happy to accept that my intelligence is below normal for this sort of thing, but I've found the whole CUPS experience frustrating in the extreme so far. Today I found Turboprint after a search on Google.com. I didn't hold out a lot of hope, given my success to date, but I've managed to get it to work with the standard lpr that comes with Slackware and the colour photos that I've been getting today from it are as good as any I've had thus far. Best of all, I'm now free of Mandrake! The only down-side to Turboprint is that it's crippled shareware, i.e., it prints a big 'this is turboprint' sort of banner across the colour pictures. I didn't think that that sort of thing was acceptable under Linux? I'd be very interested to hear how other people have got on with this kind of thing. Gerald.

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suse5.2!!!!!
by tom potts 24 Nov '01

24 Nov '01

Sorry if I've asked this before: Does anyone have the Suse 5.2 CD that came on the cover of PC World (I think?). Its the only one I've been able to get to load on 4 meg 386 machines and I though it would be fun to try with the Linux Terminal Server thats coming up. Tom __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com

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problem when running perl...
by Simon Parkes 24 Nov '01

24 Nov '01

Hi again, I'm getting a strange problem whenever I run perl, I get this output :- perl: warning: Setting locale failed. perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings: LANGUAGE = (unset), LC_ALL = (unset), LANG = "en_GB" are supported and installed on your system. perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C"). I know (or think) it's something to do with the file /etc/sysconfig/i18n but I can't figure out how to setup the rest, are there defaults that these variables should be set to? TIA Simon

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more on network card
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 23 Nov '01

23 Nov '01

I think what is happening is that when the machine is rebooting, it is losing its eth0 settings, and so the wins server hasn't a clue what it is, and can't resolve any requests made for trx850 when requests are made. I then have to do insmod rtl8139 and bring up the network address with ifconfig. These settings are then lost again when i reboot. I can't find why the routing stuff is being lost. But I feel if it wasn't my problem would be solved. Sorry about this. Jen.

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Re: [Alug] new netowrk card
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 23 Nov '01

23 Nov '01

Ricardo wrote: >>How do the windoze boxes connect to it? via a URL or a windoze style \\intranet\index.html method? Has the IP >address changed at all? If your windoze boxes use a Hosts file, that will have to be updated if the IP has changed. No, I changed nothing else. IP stayed the same. The only thing is that the card uses UTP rather than BNC, but as the card is talking on the network this can't be a problem. Connect via samba shares (working ok) then trying to connect to the apache server (not working ok). I *think* I've now narrowed the problem down to the WINS server not detecting the linux box on the network anymore. Why I don't know though. Thanks, Jenny.

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Re: [Alug] new netowrk card
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 23 Nov '01

23 Nov '01

No, I did restart samba and apache, also have checked all through /etc/network and ifconfig. Ifconfig is showing the card as there and raring to go. Log files: apache/error.log shows nothing abnormal, even though i've been trying to access webpages from windows machine on network and failing. apache/access.log doesn't recognise that the machine has been trying to reach the pages. I thought there may be a method for checking the settings for a network card, similar to the config program I ran on the 3c509. Thanks. Jen.

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Re: [Alug] new netowrk card
by MJ Ray 23 Nov '01

23 Nov '01

Chris: > I don't know what distro you're using, but the service command works with > Redhat and Mandrake. The word "debian" should be a clue. The general Unix equivalents are: /etc/init.d/samba restart /etc/init.d/apache restart I don't think that's the problem though. Jenny: > > no longer appearing in the windows network neighbourhood, and the inranet > > site served up from linuxbox won't display over the network (it will > > display using lynx on itself). > > Is there a file in debian where I can check the settings for a card, eg > > check it is configured to use TCP/IP (I think ping is UDP)? ping is ICMP. TCP/IP is quite core to GNU/Linux, so using ifconfig -a should show that the card is configured. Other files to look at include the contents of /etc/network and your log files. HTH -- MJR

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new netowrk card
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 23 Nov '01

23 Nov '01

Hi all! I've just replaced the 3com 10mb on my work box with a realtek 8139 100mb. The card is working, I can ping other machines on the network, telnet in to linuxbox from my windows machine, use my samba share, BUT the linux box is no longer appearing in the windows network neighbourhood, and the inranet site served up from linuxbox won't display over the network (it will display using lynx on itself). Is there a file in debian where I can check the settings for a card, eg check it is configured to use TCP/IP (I think ping is UDP)? Thanks, Jenny.

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Which CPU?
by Edenyard 23 Nov '01

23 Nov '01

I have a choice of 2 CPUs for my ex-skip Linux box: Intel P166-MMX (166MHz) or ST 6x86-166+ (133MHz). According to Norton SI under DOS, the MMX scores 580, whilst the 6x scores nearly 800, although both are reported as being a 486. However, when Linux boots, it reports 330 bogomips for the MMX but only about 160 for the 6x. I have two versions of the kernel 2.4.9, one optimised for the MMX and the other for the 6x. So the question is: which CPU will make Linux run faster? And will I notice the difference? Other system specs are RAM 64Mb, PCI bus, 256k PBSRAM cache. Gerald.

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Re: [Alug] Colour printing under Linux
by MJ Ray 23 Nov '01

23 Nov '01

Edenyard wrote: > Does anyone have any thoughts about colour (=photograph) printing > under Linux? [...] Yep. Use gimp-print drivers for CUPS, ghostscript or the GIMP if your printer is supported. I hear the latest debians have the ghostscript drivers as standard. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Big disks and BIOS
by Edenyard 23 Nov '01

23 Nov '01

Thanks for all the hints on these large disks, chaps! Seems like I'll go and open the wallet any day now. Look out for low-flying moths.... Gerald.

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Colour printing under Linux
by Edenyard 23 Nov '01

23 Nov '01

Does anyone have any thoughts about colour (=photograph) printing under Linux? Everything I've researched starts off by talking about 'The Linux Printing Problem'. I have an HP DJ930C and it seems to work on Mandrake 8.0 using a combination of CUPS and Kview. I really want it to work under my favourite Slackware, since Mandrake seems to run like a snail through treacle for me. I started off reading the Printing-HOWTO (several times) but, unlike most of the Linux HOWTOs that I've read, the printing one seems a complete muddle and I fear I'm none the wiser. I don't seem to be able to collect the right parts together to make Slackware do this thing so I was wondering whether anyone else has? Thanks for any pointers! Gerald.

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Re: [Alug] Debain installation crash]
by Steve Fosdick 22 Nov '01

22 Nov '01

On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:26:56 Ian Douglas wrote: > I brought myself a copy of "Debian GNU/Linux Bible" today and > tried installing Debian Potato on my PC from the CD bundled with > the book. I used fips to create some space on my Windows hard > disk, used rawrite to create the Rescue and Root floppies (my PC > cannot boot from CDs), reset the PC with the Rescue floppy and > CD inserted, watched loads of lines of text scroll past as the > PC booted then finally received a message telling me to remove > the Rescue disk insert the Root disk and press return. I put > the Root disk in, hit return, a line of text appears briefly > then my screen goes black and about a second later my PC resets > (consistently). Anyone any idea what is causing the installation > to crash? > > In frustration I have (successfully) installed SuSE Linux on > another hard disk which I can use in the PC to carry out tests > (if anyone can suggest any worth doing) to help determine the > cause of the Debian installation problem as I would like to be > able to install and experiment with Debian Linux if possible. A couple of possibilities spring to mind: corrupt floppies or a driver build into the default debian kernel conflicting with a different piece of hardware in your PC. To deal with the corrupt floppies issue you use your SuSE distribution to compare the debian floppies against the image of these from the Debian CD: cmp /dev/fd0 /cdrom/whereever-the-floppy-image-is for each disk changing the right hand of the two paths to match the images you actually used from the Debian CD. Please also bear in mind that not all magazine cover disks have the correct versions of everything including the floppy images. Regarding the kernel drivers problem, and official Debian CD set ships with a choice of boot floppy images containing various different kernels to suit different hardware. If you have that choice from your CD it may be worth trying on of the other ones. If these aren't on your CD you can find them on the Debian FTP site. Start with this directory: ftp:://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/dists/potato/main/disks-i386/2.2.26-2001-06… And then check the sub-directories safe udma66 idepci compact each of which contains a slightly different build of the kernel. Hope this helps. Steve.

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Debain installation crash
by Ian Douglas 22 Nov '01

22 Nov '01

I brought myself a copy of "Debian GNU/Linux Bible" today and tried installing Debian Potato on my PC from the CD bundled with the book. I used fips to create some space on my Windows hard disk, used rawrite to create the Rescue and Root floppies (my PC cannot boot from CDs), reset the PC with the Rescue floppy and CD inserted, watched loads of lines of text scroll past as the PC booted then finally received a message telling me to remove the Rescue disk insert the Root disk and press return. I put the Root disk in, hit return, a line of text appears briefly then my screen goes black and about a second later my PC resets (consistently). Anyone any idea what is causing the installation to crash? In frustration I have (successfully) installed SuSE Linux on another hard disk which I can use in the PC to carry out tests (if anyone can suggest any worth doing) to help determine the cause of the Debian installation problem as I would like to be able to install and experiment with Debian Linux if possible. Ian.

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Question about Background Processes
by Peter Bassill 22 Nov '01

22 Nov '01

Hi all Hoping some-one can help me. I have run a process and put it into the background. I have then logged off and then logged back on later but i can not get the process to come back to the foreground. Does anyone know how to do it? Any help would be extremely gratefully received. Pete Bassill

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Xine (& rpm's oh dear oh dear)
by Ricardo Campos 22 Nov '01

22 Nov '01

OK. I've got Xine 0.9.1 up and running, but it's now up to release 0.9.4, and DVD nav just doesn't work at all in 0.9.1, in fact it's done something weird with the UI. (has anyone had any luck with dvdnav?) If I try and $rpm -e xine-lib-0.9.1*.rpm then it says that it isn't installed If I $rpm -Uvh xine-lib-0.9.1*.rpm then it says it's already installed! grrrrr.... My only worry is that I was never able to get 0.9.2 to work, or 0.9.4., so if I install the new rpm's with the -ivh flag, I might not be able to uninstall it and revert to a working, if flawed installation. Anyone know why rpm thinks packages that *are* installed aren't? or any way that I could preserve and older installation? would the --force option do the same, if I used the older rpms? Ricardito -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze

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Re: [Alug] Question about Background Processes
by MJ Ray 22 Nov '01

22 Nov '01

Peter: > Hoping some-one can help me. I have run a process and put it into the > background. I have then logged off and then logged back on later but i > can not get the process to come back to the foreground. Does anyone know > how to do it? Any help would be extremely gratefully received. Off the top of my head, no. I'm not sure you can. Have you considered using screen and running the process in that if you need to regain control of it? -- MJR

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Can anyone help me with SSH please?
by bsamuels＠beenthere-donethat.org.uk 22 Nov '01

22 Nov '01

My web site hosting company have just changed from Telnet to SSH. I am unable to establish a connection and I'm not sure quite what I'm supposed to do at my end. I'm running Debian Potato and have installed SSH. Do I need to do anything else in order to use it? I have looked at the man page but, as always, I don't understand it. SSH appears to connect to the host but exits with 'secure connection refused'. Any help gratefully received. Barry Samuels

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Sendmail question....
by Simon Parkes 22 Nov '01

22 Nov '01

Hi Guys, I know this can be done, but I can't find it in the docs. I want an e-mail send to a particular account to run a batch file that will send the results back to another account. Any ideas or pointers please ?? Simon

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problems with perl...
by Simon Parkes 22 Nov '01

22 Nov '01

2 1

Announce digest, Vol 1 #6 - 3 msgs
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 21 Nov '01

21 Nov '01

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** oMMMoMo Mo MMMMMMMoMo " "o"o"o"o oMMMoMoM oMMMMMM"MMM" " " " " " "o"o "oMMMoMMM " oMo"M"oo MM" " MoMoMMMMMMM oM " " "oMMM " " MoMMMMMoMoMoooo Mo MMM MoMoMMMMMoMMMMM o" MoM " MoMM "MMo"oMoMMMoM"" MM " MMMMo MMMMMoMMMMMM" oM " MoMMM MMMoMMMo"MM Mo" "MMoMo ooMMMMMMMoMo" oMo oMoMMM " "oMoMMMoMoMo MoM oMoMMM MMMMMMMMMoMMM "oM oMoMMM "M"M"MMoMMMo" " o "oo " MMMM" MMMMMoMoM o" " "oM " " " "o MMMoMMMo"o M " oM " " MMMMMMMoMo o" "oMoMoooMo" " o " " MMoMMMoMoMo " "o"o MM"""""""oM oM " "MMo oMMMMMoMMMoMo " """ """ " o"MMMMoMMMoMMMo"MMo"o" o o o oo MMMMMMoMMMoMMMoMoMo MMMMM MMMo oMMM MMMo MMoMMM oMoMMMoMMMoMMMoMMMo"o oMMMMM MMMo oMMM "MMo MMM "MM MMMMMMMoMMMMMMMoMMMM" " " MMo"MMo MMMo oMM" MMMo oMM" """ " MoMMMoMMMoMMMo" " " MMMoMMMo MMMo oMM" MMMo oMM"oMoMo " "MMoMMMoMMM " " MMMMMMMo MMMo oMM" MMMo oMM" "MM oMMMoMoMoMMMoMMMoMo" " oMM" "oMM" "MMMMM" "MMMMM" MMMoMM" ooMMMMMMMoMMMMMMMoMMMoMo "M" " " " " " """ """ "oM """oMM" " " "MMoMMMoMMMoMM" " " " " " " " alug-announce : The Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group Today's Topics: 1. Job vacancy (Jeremy How) 2. Main list config updates (MJ Ray) 3. Announce ALUG 2001.8 (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Jeremy How <jeremy.how(a)e-street.com> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Reply-To: Jeremy How <jeremy.how(a)e-street.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 13:09:12 +0000 Subject: [Alug Announce] Job vacancy Hi, We are looking for a Linux System Administrator to join our company. All th= e details you should need are below. Please get in touch if you are intereste= d or have a query.=20 Many thanks, Jeremy Position: Linux System Administrator =20 We are looking for an individual dedicated to the successful running of a complex network based on Linux and other Open Source technologies. They should have at least a year's experience maintaining a Unix-based network, and hopefully would have a technical degree which involved using Linux or some other Unix variant. =20 The candidate should have experience of setting-up and managing many Unix user accounts, along with firewall, dns, mail and Web administration. Major bonuses would be knowledge of a Unix scripting language, such as Perl or Python, and experience of Macintosh networking. =20 Our Technologies - ---------------- QMail Bind Apache WebTrends IPChains Samba Netatalk (Appleshare networking for Linux) =20 Bonuses - ------- Mac networking experience Perl/Python scripting Resin (or other servlet engine) Linux Virtual Server Salary: from =A330k+ dependant on experience plus pension and life cover Location: Open plan mews office in London, W1 (near Goodge Street) Company: We are young, about 35 people strong in London and 8 in Dublin. Tech team consists of 4 people creating software for internal and external use. Lots of Java programming. Core business is data collation and distribution. If you are interested in the position get in touch or if you know someone else who could be interested I would be really grateful if you could forwar= d this on to them. Thanks. __________________________________________________________________________ Founded in 1998, e-street.com is a leading urban data capture company, and gathers comprehensive information on retail properties in all of the major urban centres in the UK and Ireland. Uniquely, the information it collects includes photographs, searchable opening times, and multiple keywords. Its coverage already extends to cities throughout the UK and Ireland, and this is expanding constantly. The service is available on the internet, kiosks, WAP, in-flight systems, and touch screens. Jeremy How Head of Human Resources e-street.com Ltd. tel: +44 (0)20 7291 1487 (direct) tel: +44 (0)20 7290 0381 (switchboard) fax: +44 (0)20 7323 0206 biz: http://www.e-street.net web: http://www.e-street.com wap: http://mmm.e-street.com *************************************************************************** NOTICE: This e-mail is strictly confidential and is intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not the intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this communication in error, please advise us by e-mail and delete the file from your system. Whilst all efforts are made to safeguard Inbound and Outbound e-mails, e-street.com cannot guarantee that attachments are Virus-free or compatible with your system and does not accept any liability in respect of viruses or computer problems experienced. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where specifically stated to be the view of e-street.com, its subsidiaries or associates. ***************************************************************************= =20 --__--__-- Message: 2 From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:51:35 +0000 Subject: [Alug Announce] Main list config updates The email list main(a)lists.alug.org.uk has had the following config changes: - More Content-Types blocked (to try to prevent more non-plain-text); - Content-Transfer-Encoding base64 blocked (8bit and quoted-printable allowed through); These shouldn't affect most people. We may try changing the strategy from specific blocks to a blanket block with some things (ie things that are clearly plain text) allowed through. Opinions? Email main(a)lists.alug.org.uk to discuss it. Of course, social still allows most things. -- MJR Anglian LUG http://www.alug.org.uk/ No ePatents http://petition.eurolinux.org/ FSF Europe http://www.fsfeurope.org/ --__--__-- Message: 3 From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 00:01:20 +0000 Subject: [Alug Announce] Announce ALUG 2001.8 The next meeting of ALUG (Anglian Linux User Group) will be on Sunday 25th November 2:00 - 6:00pm at Nelson Court Common Room B, UEA Norwich. Venue details at http://www.alug.org.uk/venues/ueanc.html We hope to have some short, informal talks on topic including Inter-Process Communication and Free Software in the UK. Alongside this will be the usual demonstrations and installation/troubleshooting help. The promotion of the meeting via Usenet can be left to me I will do it ASAP so if there are any news groups you think would be an appropriate place to advertise let me know in the past I have announced meets to: uk.comp.os.linux uk.local.east-anglia comp.os.linux.announce uea internal groups Can someone please post it to the pcplus groups and anywhere else you think is appropriate? Do check no-one has beaten you there before you post! If you are coming mail me with what kit you are bringing and any requests for help and we will get it put up on the web site as before. Thanks, MJR PS - Cheers BJ for the text ;-) -- MJR Anglian LUG http://www.alug.org.uk/ No ePatents http://petition.eurolinux.org/ FSF Europe http://www.fsfeurope.org/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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Re: Re[2]: [Alug] Can anyone help me with SSH please?
by Aaron Walker 21 Nov '01

21 Nov '01

Have to say Chris seems to have covered all bases. but to specify port 24 you just add the switch -p 24 Aaron On Wednesday 21 November 2001 15:44, you wrote: > I am using it exactly as you specify but as mentioned in another reply > I think that I need to specify port 24 but I don't know how. > > Barry Samuels > > Aaron Walker <aaron(a)transversal.com> wrote: > > Barry, > > > > how are you using ssh? > > > > You need to type ssh -l <username> <host you want to connect to> > > > > hopefully you will then get a message asking you if you are sure you > > want to > > this particular host to be added to your known_hosts file just type > > yes. You > > should now have shell access. > > > > Aaron > > > > On Wednesday 21 November 2001 15:15, you wrote: > > > My web site hosting company have just changed from Telnet to SSH. > > > > > > I am unable to establish a connection and I'm not sure quite what > > > > I'm > > > > > supposed to do at my end. > > > > > > I'm running Debian Potato and have installed SSH. Do I need to do > > > anything else in order to use it? I have looked at the man page > > > > but, > > > > > as always, I don't understand it. > > > > > > SSH appears to connect to the host but exits with 'secure > > > > connection > > > > > refused'. > > > > > > Any help gratefully received. > > > > > > Barry Samuels > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > main(a)lists.alug.org.uk > > > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ > > > http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main > > > Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above!

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Re: [Alug] problems with perl...
by MJ Ray 21 Nov '01

21 Nov '01

Simon Parkes: > I know (or think) it's something to do with the file /etc/sysconfig/i18n but > I can't figure out how to setup the rest, are there defaults that these > variables should be set to? The perllocale man page has a section on LOCALE PROBLEMS which may help. I believe this is controlled by the /etc/locale.conf file on Debian, so presumably the i18n file is similar? The Locale documentation says this about configuring new ones: To compile the locale data files you simply have to decide which locale (based on the location and the language) and which character set you use. E.g., French speaking Canadians would use the locale fr_CA' and the character set ISO_8859-1,1987'. Calling localedef' to get the desired data should happen like this: localedef -i fr_CA -f ISO-8859-1 fr_CA We use the same character set, so presumably replacing fr_CA with en_GB would fix it. You're better off finding out the correct way for your distribution, though. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Sendmail question....
by MJ Ray 21 Nov '01

21 Nov '01

> Simplest (non-sendmail-specific) solution is to use forward, ie in the > account that receives the email put in .forward something like: > \user,"| name_of_batchfile" That's right, but be aware that any error in the script processing it will be sent back to the sender as an email bounce, so you will quickly get dumped off mailing lists and the like if you don't make sure it works. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Can anyone help me with SSH please?
by MJ Ray 21 Nov '01

21 Nov '01

Chris Allen wrote: > Setting up ssh to give secure connections without needing > to enter a password is very easy, but *absurdly* poorly > documented, even in the SSH O'reilly book. Let me know if > you need any more help - I've spent many frustrating hours > battling with this program! It's actually very easy, at least with openssh (package name ssh) on Debian. You run ssh-keygen once, then add the contents of $HOME/.ssh/identity.pub on your local host to $HOME/.ssh/authorized_keys on the remote host. Type ssh-add on the local host and enter your passphrase to authorise your key for the current X session, then you can ssh without a password. That's the basic situation for most people. Things are similar for ssh 2, although I don't think the Debian Potato version supports the newer protocol. If you don't run under X, you'll need to start your own ssh-agent and set the required variables, but the manual pages aren't bad. -- MJR

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