- main - earth.li

Re: [Alug] Debian Linux Trouble - A Step Forward
by MJ Ray 24 Sep '01

24 Sep '01

"Edenyard" <mail(a)edenyard.co.uk> writes: > So it seems as though there's an issue with kernel 2.2 and BOTH of my > IDE CD drives, whereas kernel 2.4 and 2.0 (Slack 3.5) apparently have > no trouble with those drives. Could this be the case? Indeed it could and from what you've said, it even seems quite likely. If you still want debian, I guess you'll need to get some woody disks. -- MJR Thesis watch: 30% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

1 0

Re: [Alug] Unresolved symbols
by MJ Ray 24 Sep '01

24 Sep '01

Paul <paul.corner(a)tesco.net> writes: > Question though - Is there an easy way of finding out what symbols are > causing the error messages reported by depmod ? I think there's a -v option to depmod which gets you the full list of symbols. However, the usual cause of such problems is because you installed two kernels with the same modules directory simultaneously. For this reason, when building my own kernel packages, I tend to add a suffix (EXTRAVERSION I think the Makefile directive is) to the version. Debian don't do that, so I avoid conflicting. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

2 1

MDK 8.0 probs
by Ricardo Campos 24 Sep '01

24 Sep '01

Here's a little warning for anyone wishing to try Mandrake 8.0:- EVERY source I've compiled has failed. Sometimes rpms work, sometimes they don't (even though they are MDK rpm's). I thought I was just being inept(fairly likey really), but why EVERY source? I looked over various BBS's and realised that I was not the only one... a LOT of people were having this problem. Seems that MDK, in an effort to be cutting edge, has sacrificed reliability and used a less stable version of gcc. grrr. Ref for solution: http://www.linuxformat.co.uk/viewtopic.php?topic=861&forum=5 Ricardo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

3 2

Re: [Alug] Debian Linux Trouble - A Step Forward
by Edenyard 24 Sep '01

24 Sep '01

On Sat, 22 Sep 2001 21:16:02 +0100 (BST), Adam Bower wrote: >> hdc: WEARNES RUBY CD-ROM, ATAPI CDROM drive > (....) > Is that there appears to be problems with Wearnes CD-Rom drives in Gateway > computers and they replaced the drives with Toshiba units as they did not > ship Wearnes due to multiple replacement issues. > Is your machine one made by Gateway by any chance? If not it may be that > the Wearnes drive is not very good or something related. > No - it has a label on the front saying 'Bull' - I was beginning to think that I couldn't agree more.... However, there's progress: I couldn't understand why neither the 2X Wearnes or the 12X Liteon would work with Debian, although they'd both previously installed Redhat 7 without any difficulty. Suddenly (I'm very slow at these things!) it came to me that Redhat uses kernel 2.4, but the troublesome Debian (and Slack with the 12X drive) both use kernel 2.2. I remembered having seen something on the Slackware 8 disks that suggested that the 2.4.5 kernel could be installed if needed. In sheer desperation, I tried making a 2.4.5 bare.i boot disk this morning. Amazingly, Slack 8 installed on the 12X CD drive without a murmur. I did it twice, just to make sure. So it seems as though there's an issue with kernel 2.2 and BOTH of my IDE CD drives, whereas kernel 2.4 and 2.0 (Slack 3.5) apparently have no trouble with those drives. Could this be the case? Anyway - one lives and learns. I wonder what my next hurdle will be.... Gerald.

1 0

Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 24 Sep '01

24 Sep '01

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server uk.openprojects.net" or "/server eu.openprojects.net" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

1 0

Unresolved symbols
by Paul 24 Sep '01

24 Sep '01

Hi Folks Just spent the last few days bludgeoning a kernel source in to submission. Finally got it working on a RH6.x system (the RH7.2 will be next). Just one small elephant in the ointment though - When I run depmod, I get a report of unresolved symbols in a handfull of modules, yet when installing them, not an error or warning in sight. The stress tests all run without hanging the system, so I assume there is no major problem with the modules. Question though - Is there an easy way of finding out what symbols are causing the error messages reported by depmod ? Once the errant symbols have been identified, I would hope to be able to fix them without too much trouble. Regards, Paul.

1 0

how to resume dowloads?
by John Woodard 23 Sep '01

23 Sep '01

When I use that `other' os I have a small utility (Gozilla!) that resumes http downloads if I loose my connection. Is there some way of doing the same in Linux? I know that ftp clients do the same but if I download over http I'd quite like the same facility. Cheers, BJ

5 10

Re: [Alug] Debian Linux Trouble
by Edenyard 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

On Sat, 22 Sep 2001 16:02:24 +0100, Steve Fosdick wrote: > Still I guess what we really need to know is what chipset the > IDE interface appears to be from a software point of view, so > we are looking for lines from the output of dmesg like the Below is the output of my dmesg. It doesn't actually report the chipset number, merely 'VP_IDE'. I understand the chipset to be a VIA 580 VPX. Is that a troublesome one? Gerald. ====== dmesg output: ================================================ Linux version 2.2.19 (root@bigkitty) (gcc version 2.95.3 20010315 (release)) #22 Wed Jun 20 18:12:16 PDT 2001 (then, a few lines later) Serial driver version 4.27 with HUB-6 MANY_PORTS MULTIPORT SHARE_IRQ enabled ttyS00 at 0x03f8 (irq = 4) is a 16550A ttyS01 at 0x02f8 (irq = 3) is a 16550A pty: 512 Unix98 ptys configured Real Time Clock Driver v1.09 RAM disk driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 4096K size loop: registered device at major 7 VP_IDE: IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 39 VP_IDE: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later ide0: BM-DMA at 0x6000-0x6007, BIOS settings: hda:pio, hdb:pio ide1: BM-DMA at 0x6008-0x600f, BIOS settings: hdc:pio, hdd:pio hda: ST33240A, ATA DISK drive hdc: WEARNES RUBY CD-ROM, ATAPI CDROM drive ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14 ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15 hda: ST33240A, 3077MB w/0kB Cache, CHS=781/128/63 hdc: ATAPI 2X CD-ROM drive, 128kB Cache Uniform CD-ROM driver Revision: 3.11 Floppy drive(s): fd0 is 1.44M FDC 0 is a National Semiconductor PC87306 md driver 0.36.6 MAX_MD_DEV=4, MAX_REAL=8 (etc.) =====================================================================

2 1

Re: [Alug] Debian Linux Trouble
by Edenyard 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

On 22 Sep 2001 09:09:43 +0100, MJ Ray wrote: > Might be something about the controller or drive that it doesn't like. > I see you have it on hdc (secondary master, usually). Have you tried > moving it to the same controller as the hard disk (hdb, primary > slave)? If it works then, it's probably that controller it doesn't > I've just tried that suggestion. I set the CD to slave and put it on the HD's ribbon cable. Unfortunately, it's not made any difference. I went into the BIOS setup and disabled the now unused secondary IDE controller, just in case that was responsible, but that had no effect either. Hmmm... Gerald.

1 0

Re: [Alug] Debian Linux Trouble
by Edenyard 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

On Sat, 22 Sep 2001 12:55:38 +0100 (BST), Adam Bower wrote: > What kind of io chipset does your motherboard have? as there are a couple > that have bugs under linux. That may be something to look at. > On boot-up, the BIOS reports the string: 02/11/99-82C580VP-2A5LA008C-00 along the bottom of the screen. Also, a hardware diagnosis programme running under DOS on that PC reports: VIA 580 VPXchipset Revision Level.........: 16 Sustained 3T Write.....: Yes CPU Pipeline active....: No DRAM Timing Control....: (x) normal, ( ) fast, ( ) turbo System BIOS cacheable..: No Video BIOS cacheable..: No L2-Cache status........: enabled L2-Cache SRAM Type.....: Pipeline Burst SRAM L2-Cache SRAM Type.....: 256 KB L2 Tag Configuration...: 8+0 L2-Cache WriteBack Mode: No Memory Hole............: none SDRAM Burst Write......: No SDRAM Interleave.......: No CPU/PCI Write Buffer...: Yes PCI/DRAM Post Writing..: Yes PCI/DRAM Prefetch......: Yes PCI Dynamic Bursting...: No PCI Burst..............: No PCI Master 0WS Write...: No Quick Frame Generation.: No Does that answer your question, or should I look somewhere else? Is there a list of chipsets that don't work properly under Linux? Gerald.

1 0

Debian Linux Trouble
by Edenyard 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

Dear List, Last week, I sent a plea to the list asking for help with installing Slackware and Debian. As a result of that, John Seago kindly delivered his CD sets to me and now I've got Slackware 8 installed and working. It turns out that I had two problems: (1) the Crazy Penguin CDs were no good, and (2) my 12X CD drive kept locking up when installing .TGZ files to HD - if I copied the files to the DOS partition first and installed from there, it worked. My CD drive problem appeared to be solved by getting hold of an old IDE 2X Wearnes drive - that installed Slackware from the CDs, slowly, but without any further problems. Encouraged, I tried installing Debian 2.2r3 from John's CDs. Firstly, it claimed that it couldn't find /cdrom/ (having already installed the 'base system' from CD...) but I seemed to overcome that by installing a different 'flavor' of system - I'd tried idepci at first, but ended up with the 'vanilla' one (is that the right term??). Having installed the abse system, I then got as far as choosing the packages to install. Unfortunately, part way through the package installation, I got these messages: hdc: irq timeout: status=0xd0 {Busy} hdc: ATAPI reset complete hdc: status error: status=0x58 {DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest} hdc: drive not ready for command (etc.) A new line, similar to those above, would appear every few seconds. The CD LED was permanently on and I couldn't open the drawer. Very similar to the problems I was having with the 12X drive last week. So I'm stumped (again) and my question (eventually!) is: where do I go from here? Why does the CD drive get locked up like this? (And why didn't it happen whilst installing Slackware 8?) Sorry if I seem very stupid asking these questions, but I'm desperate for an answer. (Details: P166-MMX with 64Mb RAM, Cirrus 5446 video onboard, 3Gb HD on hda and IDE CD drive on hdc) Any clues will be very gratefully received! All the best, Gerald.

3 3

Re: [Alug] Smugness, Nimda, Linux and Windows
by MJ Ray 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

xsprite(a)bigfoot.com writes: > Well, with a c program, the first exploitable bug you are likely to find > is a buffer overflow. > With perl, you move into the realm of shopping carts, webmail and so on. > Quite often authentication mechanisms are insufficient, poorly thought > out. Also there's the old open(HANDLE, $userstring); thing (where > $userstring is set to "/bin/rm -rf / |") Ah, sorry, I interpreted: "once you take out buffer overflows you end up with the inability of programmers to create a decent authentication system. (Think hotmail, banks, etc)" as meaning that without buffer overflows, you cannot create a decent authentication system, which goes against everything I've ever seen, of course. If we just mean insecure execution with user-tainted data, then I know that bug (and I'm just trying to eradicate it from yet another place). -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

1 0

Re: Freeserve being a big bag of poo?)
by MJ Ray 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

ahayes(a)ntlworld.com writes: > Steve Fosdick wrote: > > So, back to MJR's email in which he says these are windows > > problems. I beg to differ. I think these are M$ problems > > and if M$ dained to write software for Linux it would be > > fraught with all the same issues. OK, maybe we should say these are Microsoft problems. Trouble is, "Microsoft Virus" sounds so much like one of their products, doesn't it? Maybe it is and they are keeping the anti-virus makers in business ;-) > I also think they are programmer problems. Arguments are made saying > it's the language the programmer uses. For example: "c has buffer > overflows, use perl/whatever!", but once you take out buffer overflows > you end up with the inability of programmers to create a decent > authentication system. (Think hotmail, banks, etc) Yes, ultimately the programmer is responsible, but can you name any other company which so fiercely defends the rights of their programmers to create such cock-ups, are reluctant to fix them once found and prevent others from fixing them? I'm intrigued though: why is the ability to create buffer overflows linked to being able to create authentication systems? Maybe I've just not thought about it enough. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

2 1

Re: [Alug] Freeserve being a big bag of poo?
by MJ Ray 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

Ignoring my own advice because I think the communication point is important for all linux advocates. Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> writes: > Imaging my surprise when I heard that there was another iis worm doing the > rounds! I didn't actually pay any attention to the reports of "another iis > worm, that is going to destroy the internet" as there is a new one every > week. [...] It's not an IIS worm for two reasons: 1/ it uses javascript page modifications on broken IIS boxes and email via Outlook to trick OE and IE to infecting machines who receive data from the infected box; 2/ most Windows users don't know what IIS is anyway, so calling it an "IIS worm" doesn't get the point across. It's a Microsoft Windows Virus. Let's make the mud start sticking. > This one after a bit of reading looks as though it is rather nasty > and explains quite alot, I have heard of one person reporting that his > apache server has been probed nearly 10,000,000 times in less than a day. My estimate from logs at UEA is that between 10 and 20% of web traffic on the UEA network is this virus, although mostly from outside now that iTCS have slapped the compromised machines on campus. I expect more as students in networked rooms plug in, though. It really is a active bugger, this one! > Well I think we have a strong case to prove that Windows is criminally > broken, I wonder if people with rooted iis boxen will finally see the > light when they get the bandwidth bills at the end of the month? You have to remember that the bandwidth bills are also hitting innocents, both because of scans of random IPs, but also because the ISPs will want to pass their costs on. People using Microsoft products are now costing us all money, even if we bought our computers without Windows. This has to stop. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

4 3

Re: [Alug] Debian Linux Trouble
by MJ Ray 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

"Edenyard" <mail(a)edenyard.co.uk> writes: > with the 'vanilla' one (is that the right term??). Having installed the Yes. > So I'm stumped (again) and my question (eventually!) is: where do I > go from here? Why does the CD drive get locked up like this? (And why > didn't it happen whilst installing Slackware 8?) Might be something about the controller or drive that it doesn't like. I see you have it on hdc (secondary master, usually). Have you tried moving it to the same controller as the hard disk (hdb, primary slave)? If it works then, it's probably that controller it doesn't like. Whether you want to try that depends how comfortable you are with rewiring and moving jumpers. It would give a good clue as to what's wrong, though. Of course, if the two controllers are identical and it works, that's very very strange. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

1 0

Re: [Alug] Rackspace Affliate = Dosh for Alug?
by MJ Ray 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

"Martyn Drake" <martyn(a)alug.org.uk> writes: > The income will be miniscule, but anything like this that can go towards the > cost of running the server is welcome, and if things work out better than > expected, then funds can then be made available to Alug. Should we derestrict it totally and say that all-comers can advertise on the site in exchange for donations to group funds? Doesn't that mean we should appoint two treasurers to watch over such things on behalf of the LUG? -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

1 0

Re: [Alug] Windows Users: You're Wrecking the Internet!
by MJ Ray 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

"Earl Brannigan" <earl.brannigan(a)lindenhouse.co.uk> writes: > Sorry, I'm a developer. When I spend 2 days writing 3 lines of code because > I can't get off the phone from these Jerks, then it really gets me. Now I > have to work late or early or Saturday or something to get back on target > with my real work ! Maybe this is a little naive to say this, but if we're developing for a customer, you can't actually reach us directly by phone. Hopefully prospective customers appreciate that when they pay us money, we work on their stuff and don't get distracted by the sort of long drawn-out conversations a few people like to have about issues that don't really concern us (eg this one). Secretaries are wonderful things (when they get the messages right). ;-) You can always reach us by email, though, and we try to answer all calls the same day. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

1 0

Windows Users: You're Wrecking the Internet!
by Earl Brannigan 21 Sep '01

21 Sep '01

Hi List, >Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> wrote : > Imaging my surprise when I heard that there was another iis worm doing the > rounds! I didn't actually pay any attention to the reports of "another iis > worm, that is going to destroy the internet" as there is a new one every > week. This one after a bit of reading looks as though it is rather nasty > and explains quite alot, I have heard of one person reporting that his > apache server has been probed nearly 10,000,000 times in less than a day. This is getting tiresome, today I had to search very hard to find legitimate accesses in apache's access log. Meanwhile, customers are phoning LR&C saying 'my virus software has just reported that I have some trojan file ... what do I do" I can't say "take windows and IIS off your box !!" (of course non of em knew they had IIS on the box, because they bought SBS off some twat of a reseller who doesn't know a decent server from a pair of pants!) So I tell them to go to windowsupdate.microsoft.com and follow the instructions for installing every bloody patch there is. Then to open up outlook, go to tasks, add one to visit microsoft again tomorrow to do exactly the same, set a reminder and save it. Then I remind them to set it for the day after when they have done it. They say "that's ridiculous - I can't spend ages every day downloading stuff like this" I say - "2 things, firstly I can't spend ages every day telling every one of our customers how to patch their machines (we sell them software - they phone up about everything else expecting help), secondly, spend a couple of minutes every day or spend a month trying to get your system back to life when you get wasted by the next big one. Your Call." So today we find out that a major (BIG) software house (NASDAQ quoted) have just been hit by something, they have no virus protection, HAVEN'T DONE A BCKUP IN 2 YEARS, and guess what... lost loads!. Sorry but I'm not sorry - even remotely. Its simple.... sooooooooo simple I'm not even going to tell you how bloody simple. > > > Anyone for a "Windows Users: You're Wrecking the Internet!" diatribe? > > ;-) Sure - Last night my box was scanned 20 times in a 2 hour session on the web. Surfing was painfully slow. How about, Windows users, You're Too Blasted Stupid to use computers! Here - have an abacus! Sorry, I'm a developer. When I spend 2 days writing 3 lines of code because I can't get off the phone from these Jerks, then it really gets me. Now I have to work late or early or Saturday or something to get back on target with my real work ! Not Happy Best Regs Earl

1 0

What is ctags?
by oms101＠freeuk.com 21 Sep '01

21 Sep '01

ctags is a utility for speeding up your coding in a variety of languages initi ally for the vi editor (I think only for c initially hence the name). What it does is allow you to have your editor jump to the correct line of your code that defines a function. An example say in nedit you highlifght some code eg "fopen" and press "ALT d" nedit will open the correct header file at the line which defines the function. ctags only works for files included in ctags list of files to scan fortunatly as I discovered a few days ago makedepend lists the files included, and so provides usefull output for ctags input. Regards Owen PS I included some stuff from ctags web site. <quote ref="http://ctags.sourceforge.net/whatis.html"> What is ctags? Ctags generates an index (or tag) file of C language objects found in C source and header files that allows these items to be quickly and easily located by a text editor or other utility. A tag signifies a C language object for which an index entry is available (or, alternatively, the index entry created for that object). Alternatively, ctags can generate a cross reference file which lists, in human-readable form, information about the various objects found in a set of C language files. Tag index files are supported by the vi editor and its derivatives (such as vim, elvis, stevie, xvi) through the use of the ":ta" command, and by the emacs editor through the use of the "Meta-." command, both of which locate the object associated with a name. There are other a number of other editors which support tag files. </quote> <quote ref="http://ctags.sourceforge.net/tools.html"> Editors which support CTAGS generated tag files Vi-style editors Vim, the official editor of Exuberant Ctags Vile Lemmy, a vi clone [Windows 95/NT]. Other vi clones Other editors CRiSP [Unix, Windows 95/NT] Emacs FTE (Folding Text Editor) [Unix, Windows 95/NT, MSDOS, OS/2] JED [Unix, VMS, MSDOS, OS/2, BeOS, QNX, Win 9X/NT] NEdit (Nirvana Edit), a GUI editor [Unix with Motif] TSE (The SemWare Editor) [Windows 95/NT] X2 [Unix, Windows 95] Zeus for Windows Tools using CTAGS Code Crusader CShow (greps C functions out of source code) FLTags [Unix] hypersrc [Unix] IDEntify [Unix] Workspace Whiz! [Win32] VIDE (V Integrated Development Environment [Unix and Windows 9x/NT] </quote> I hope you find this interesting Owen On 21-Sep-01 Ashley T. Howes Ph.D. wrote: > on 19/9/01 7:43 pm, oms101(a)freeuk.com at oms101(a)freeuk.com wrote: > >> I was about to write a program today to go through my source code and find >> all >> the files included. I did a search on the internet and only found a windows >> program, the reason being that the linux program was something so standard I >> had missed it. Its called makedepend and ran as such >> >> makedepend main.cpp -f- >> >> produces output as such >> >> main.c.o: /usr/include/_G_config.h /usr/include/alloca.h >> /usr/include/assert.h >> main.c.o: /usr/include/bits/confname.h /usr/include/bits/endian.h >> main.c.o: /usr/include/bits/environments.h /usr/include/bits/huge_val.h >> main.c.o: /usr/include/bits/local_lim.h /usr/include/bits/mathcalls.h >> >> but produces a few more lines. >> >> I then process the output into ctags and can find the definition of any bit >> of >> code I want. > > What's a ctag? > > > Ashley > > > > Date: 21-Sep-01 Time: 13:58:17

1 0

Rackspace Affliate = Dosh for Alug?
by Martyn Drake 21 Sep '01

21 Sep '01

Hi, Would anybody object to having a small Rackspace logo and link placed on the main Alug web site? Main reason for it, is that if anybody clicks through and signs up, Alug will receive 50% of the first month's hosting fee of whoever signs up. This will help pay towards the upkeep of the server for that month, and anything extra can be used for the group itself for whatever it needs. Thoughts? Opinions? BK Flamer? Regards, Martyn

2 2

Re: [Alug] Freeserve being a big bag of poo?
by MJ Ray 20 Sep '01

20 Sep '01

Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> writes: > Anyway, I just signed up with freeserve not much more than a week ago and > their data transfer for webpages seems abysmal? [...] There are four access numbers for freeserve, not all of which work in all parts of the country. They actually connect over totally different networks from the telco level up (and there's one which leaves BT at the local exchange), so performance varies between them. A quick look on groups.google or the freeserve.help.anytime group should get the numbers for you, as I don't have them to hand. There are two sets of web proxy caches, one transparent and one normal. If one is screwing up, sometimes the other works fine. Try toggling your proxy settings. It sounds like the trans ones are broken from what you say. Replies to social(a)lists.alug, please, as this isn't terribly Linuxish. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

6 7

Re: [Alug] Suitable threads on main [was: Freeserve being a big
by MJ Ray 20 Sep '01

20 Sep '01

oms101(a)freeuk.com writes: > > Announce - Announcements for all things Alug (meetings, etc.) > Makes sence to me we currently use main for this and if we are all > dividing up the groups we need one central point to look at and > subscribe to with very low posting numbers. No, we don't use main for this. There's announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk, but no-one else ever seems to want to post to it (HintHint). I also try to pick the best bits of the main list for it, too. > > Main - Meetings discussion, Linux (installing/config) > > help/discussion, etc > Is not this Main's job as well as install issues and configuration Yep, I think help should stay on main. I think we probably should re-open the old discussion about what people want to see on here. Well, anyone else got opinions on it? Anyone able to write a really great summary of what we want to see on main? I'll add it to the welcome message and web site if you do. > > Social - BBQs a plenty, vaguley Linux related meets and greets, etc. > OK some people want to filter out sillyness. Moo. Actually, it's more to give an outlet for this group of people on things that are really off-topic on the main list, just to avoid having some of the more flammable members calling people "ignorant pigs" (whoops there go the content filters again). More people should subscribe to it (HintHint). > > Developers - discussion for any developers out there (coding, IDEs, etc) > Is not this as central to linux as playing with the config and more of a main > list thing, if this is going to happen maybe a sysadmin list should exist. Maybe hackers(a)lists.alug might be a better name? I think that there are some people who just want to *use* Linux for interesting tasks, rather than hacking around all day. Or does everyone like to hear about the latest tech as well as seeing questions answered and meetings organised? > I know not all of us have toll free internet but at least all our > mails are plain text so the band width is not that bad. [...] I think it's more a human problem than a practical one. Some people just can't read 1000 mails/week, which is what we'd surely do if we let this list go wild. PS - Owen, your mail client appears to truncate subject lines :-/ -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

3 2

Strong case for text web browsers...
by Ricardo Campos 20 Sep '01

20 Sep '01

I know this is a little off-topic, but you REALLY need to see http://www.goldchip-uk.com it is the strongest argument for a console-based text webpage viewer I have seen - I promise you, you will laugh. (well, you might cry. Remeber what webpages looked like 5 or 6 years ago?). I just discovered it @ work, so I haven't looked at it in Lynx yet... I couldn't resist the temptation to send the webmaster a little note: ------------------------------ <flame> Your website is quite surely the worst one I have ever seen. And I've seen some *REALLY* bad ones. <snip> ....but as you are a business you should really consider paying a little more attention to the design. After all, it is an advert for your company. This particular advert says "my company is crap". <snip> </flame> ------------------------------ I'm hungover and feeling unkind! >;-P Ricardo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

5 4

Re: [Alug] PHP and Java problem
by MJ Ray 20 Sep '01

20 Sep '01

Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> writes: > just an quick response... why are you trying to do this ?? Java is nice, > PHP is nice, but trying to combine the two is like sticking wheels on a > jelly ;) > > If what you are doing is that serious you should be using perl (imho) Bwhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahah! There are reasons for trying to glue all kinds of things together, but often trying to do this internally to the processes is a bad idea and some sort of message-passing over sockets between servers is a lot easier to do properly. Glue is good... I mean, look at how perl's OO is stuck on as an afterthought. Blessing references? What's all that about, then? -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

1 0

Lists
by John Seago 20 Sep '01

20 Sep '01

Five lists? Surely what we have is quite sufficient? Syd Hancock says he is not subscribed to `Social', unless you can read them all how do you know that you haven't missed something? Whilst the more esoteric discussions go completely over my head I have a suspicion that I may actually be learning something, even if I don't know what it is. I already have the daily digests in order to ensure that I don't miss anything, five lists mean I've got to subscribe to, and read five lists. If we had more than we do at present there would need to be a link on each to point to matters we might need to read on the others. I am of the opinion that things are fine as they are at the moment, after all it wasn't so long ago that the daily list was down to one or two articles, and the main discussion was on the quality of written English, spelling and grammar. John Seago

2 1