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10369 discussions

Re: [Alug] Questions from a test
by MJ Ray 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > > > a) Runlevel 5 automatically starts the X window system T/F > So what answer would you put for this question, bear in mind most of > the other questions are refering to Redhat 7 explisitly. "It depends on what the inittab says." Also, note that X has access control to stop unwelcome applications shoving their windows in your face. Many people run X with tcp disabled.

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Re: [Alug] Version Numbers
by Andrew.Chandler＠ftid.com 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

/me wonders if all RedHat versions are development versions!! John, No, not for RedHat, SuSE et cetera.... Does Debian? Andi John Seago <john.seago(a)btinternet.com> on 17/07/2001 17:26:28 To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk cc: (bcc: Andrew Chandler/PSD/LONDON/FTI) Subject: [Alug] Version Numbers RFC822 message headers I am currently wrestling with Red Hat 7.1, (seawolf). Do the issue/version numbers in the full package follow the same numbering system as the kernel numbering, is 7.1 a development version of 7? If so would I be better off getting hold of issue seven, as some applications seem to crash, (this is most likely due to my blundering than any inherent fault). Having got the KDE Email and web browser up and running I am now trying to get Balsa to work, the incoming mail is fine but with the same settings as in KDE it does not seem to work, obviously there is something I've missed. Can anyone advise me please? John Seago _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub!

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[Fwd: Re: [Alug] Version Numbers]
by Michael Lincoln 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

For everyone who missed by rant (I'm sure you care 8) ) -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Alug] Version Numbers Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:57:49 +0100 From: Michael Lincoln <mclinc(a)essex.ac.uk> To: Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> References: <01071717262800.01024(a)localhost.localdomain> <87k817rxfr.fsf(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> <3B55456B.F23C81F3(a)entora.co.uk> Neill Newman wrote: >MJ Ray wrote: > >>John Seago <john.seago(a)btinternet.com> writes: >> >>>system as the kernel numbering, is 7.1 a development version of 7? >>> >>With RedHat, no, as far as I know. >> > > >nope, the numbers are just that.. the devel version of redhat is called >rawhide, and lives on several mirror archives if you want to have aplay >with it... > >>>If so would I be better off getting hold of issue seven, as some >>>applications seem to crash, (this is most likely due to my blundering >>>than any inherent fault). >>> >>I've heard the criticism of RedHat that they have done a "if it >>compiles, ship it" strategy with 7.1 rather a lot recently. Can any >>of our RedHat users confirm or deny that? >> > > >I can deny that, While I am sure that there are bugs with various pieces >of RedHat that have shipped, there are also a comparable number of bug >and security releases with other distro's. I have been using redhat for >about 5 years now, and in my experience they do a 6 month ship cycle, >and three months after the last release they freeze versions and work on >getting the bugs out (unless a security alert is made on a package).. >imho they don';t just ship it if it compiles...I've used all versions >since 3.0.3, and 7.1 is definatly more stable/more features than any >other release (ok, I acknowledge the gcc argument, but i'm not going to >get drawn into it again ;)... > >hth >Sz > I can conferm this! Redhat have realy f**ked up on more that one occation by shipping software that is broken, when there where perfectly good alternatives. They are always shipping development versions of libc. Sure they are driving the technology forwards very quickly by geting this software tested by millions of people, but persionaly I'd rather It wasn't me that was forced into the testing. I have no problems running beta software. My X-server was complied weekly out of CVS for about a year, but I do like to have a choise. I want a distro thats broken *after* I've been at it, not before 8). (hence I dont use redhat) Did you actualy use RH 5.0 ? Please, dont use the word "stable" near it! Sure redhat has more features than something like slackware, but it's _nothing like_ as stable. For me SuSE is a happy medium. Simple out of the box installs that do everything & more than I need, and relatively well built cf. Redhat. I installed SuSE 7.1 the otherday and its the best I've seen from SuSE yet. Almost everything worked out of the box. USB mouse/keyboard/printer, WinTV card, SCSI, ethernet, my visor, even theres even an RPM for the temperature sensor on my motherboard! - every bit of hardware I have. It comes with 2.4.2 +patches kernel. You can download XF 4.1.0 rpms from there ftp site and these work with H/W accel. openGL with no hacking. I droped in kernel 2.4.6, no need to upgrade anything. Hit the online autoupdate button on yast2 and it applied all the updates. Yast1 configured LVM form me. Infact to get the (desktop) system to a useable state all I had to hand edit was the conf.modules file to get the kernel drivers for my sound blaster working. (alsa has never liked my SB16 for some reasion). Oh yes, and they mannage to release security fixes too. I suspect they also have a feature freeze *before* they release, like anyone without a death wish 9). Having used both SuSE and RedHat for extened periods of time I'd have to recommend SuSE to anyone. There is simply no reasion to use RedHat anymore. Even the comercial support argument has gone. SuSE has 38% of the Americal market share OTTOMH Anyway rant over, must do some work... Mike > >>_______________________________________________ >>alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list >>Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk >>http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug >>See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! >> >

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Re: [Alug] Version Numbers
by MJ Ray 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> writes: > Thank goodness Debian's release process is as rigourous as it is. Shame it > takes them 2 years to punt one out, though... Steady on... it's only been 1 year since 2.2 and there have been 3 security releases. The freeze for 3.0 has started. 18 months is probably closer ;-)

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Version Numbers
by John Seago 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

I am currently wrestling with Red Hat 7.1, (seawolf). Do the issue/version numbers in the full package follow the same numbering system as the kernel numbering, is 7.1 a development version of 7? If so would I be better off getting hold of issue seven, as some applications seem to crash, (this is most likely due to my blundering than any inherent fault). Having got the KDE Email and web browser up and running I am now trying to get Balsa to work, the incoming mail is fine but with the same settings as in KDE it does not seem to work, obviously there is something I've missed. Can anyone advise me please? John Seago

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Re: [Alug] Version Numbers
by MJ Ray 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

John Seago <john.seago(a)btinternet.com> writes: > system as the kernel numbering, is 7.1 a development version of 7? With RedHat, no, as far as I know. > If so would I be better off getting hold of issue seven, as some > applications seem to crash, (this is most likely due to my blundering > than any inherent fault). I've heard the criticism of RedHat that they have done a "if it compiles, ship it" strategy with 7.1 rather a lot recently. Can any of our RedHat users confirm or deny that?

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Re: [Alug] Where to buy a Slackware 8.0 box in the UK?
by Joss Winn 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

Thanks for your suggestions on where to get Slackware 8 in the UK. What I really want though is to buy the offical box set with manual. Partly to support the distribution and partly because I want the printed manual. Any sugestions on the offical box set are still very welcome. cheers! Joss --

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Re: [Alug] Bash script help please!
by MJ Ray 18 Jul '01

18 Jul '01

bsamuels(a)datamansys.co.uk writes: > Is it possible to compare the sizes of two files from within a Bash > script? I don't need to know the actual sizes just which one is the > bigger file. bigger_file=$(ls -S1 file1 file2 | head -1) > I can't find anything useful in the Bash man page. That'll be because it's in the ls man page. Hope that helps.

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make-kpkg buildpackage
by Andrew J Glover 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

Hello, I finally got round to running 'make-kpkg buildpackage'... And installed the resulting debs. However /usr/include/linux still hasnt been updated to the current kernel headers, is this "normal" behavoir for that, I thought it would update them... Help please! Andrew

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Re: [Alug] Beta testers needed for off-topic Alug list :)
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

Martyn: I still can't see you from here - my subscription is being bounced: "No route found to domain lists.alug.org.uk from server NOTESSERVER/TCL. Check DNS configuration." Anything I can do? Jenny

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Re: [Alug] Beta testers needed for off-topic Alug list :)
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

Adam Bower wrote: >does lists.alug.org.uk exist ? just it seems unreachable. I can't get this link to work either. Jen

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Ooops....
by Earl Brannigan 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

Hi all, Couple of points : 1)If I have to wait until the full digest comes then I have to scan for those threads I am following - sometimes the digest is massive. But if I get cc'd I see where the discussion is going in 'real' time and can ensure I know the score. Recent posts on religion and spelling a case in point. I had no idea until this morning's digest that so many people were pissed with the discussion going the way it did, by which time I had already posted. Whats more, the digest is just that, a digest of the ongoing discussions. How often have I responded to a question posed in the digest then with the next digest found multiple replies prior to mine, which were evidently posted prior to the digest being generated ? Alot of other lists either send out each mail to all subscribers (eg. mod_ssl mailing list) or advise if someone has posted a response in the same thread or as a reply to yours. 2)People do go off topic occasionally, I don' t think its such a bad thing, we are not robots, there are a number of things which we 'bring to the party' if they are relevant. Whether something is relevant or not can be pretty subjective. Free software is a community of people. User Groups are made up of people. Of course there needs to be some discipline to avoid tons of off -topic stuff cluttering things up, but people first! 3)If people are resigning from the list because a thread went off topic then I am very disappointed. Surely a complaint/flame against the culprits is better. (I can handle it, no asbestos required). Or to put it another way :Grow up and Get a Life! Finally, I don't actually think the thread was that far off topic. I could go into a number of (arguably interesting) parallels between the history of the church and the evolution of free software. But who cares! BTW, for what its worth, I am an atheist. (Or is that too far off topic, maybe I should resign from the list...) Cheers Earl

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Beta testers needed for off-topic Alug list :)
by Martyn Drake 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

Hi, I've set-up a list called (thanks to Mark Ray for the suggestion of the name) social(a)lists.alug.org.uk, which does exactly as it says on the tin. It's intended to move off-topic threads onto a seperate mailing list so that much more Linuxy thing can be discussed on this general list. I need people to help test it, and the best way to do that is to use it. All you need to do is visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/social for more information. I've attempted to keep the look and feel of the main subscription list information page, but there may still be a few bugs here and there. Regards, Martyn

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Off topic, Emoticons
by John Seago 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

I am afraid that as a complete beginner I am do not know what an emoticon is. No offence was intended, I was however struck by the direct comparison of the Linux/free/open community to a religious movement, I have to admit that even though I have a system in which only the word processor, spreadsheet, Web browser and Email client work, and whilst I really can't claim to know what I'm doing, I have a tendency to `evangelism' on behalf of `linux' in general. John Seago

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Connection Traumas revisited
by David Howe 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

OK so it's not such a trauma now, after great help from Neill and "Fozzy" - my routing still doesn't work but at least I'm now in a position to provide more intelligent information than my last post. OK here's a summary, LAN with 3 machines 1 x Win2k 10.10.10.100 1 x win98 10.10.10.99 1 x Mandrake 7.1 10.10.10.200 (called it route66 optimistically) netmask for all of these is 255.255.255.0 10.10.10.200 connects via external modem (ttyS1) to internet (ppp0) route gives me this...... Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface ba3-cvx3.cablei * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 ppp0 route66 * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 eth0 10.10.10.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 127.0.0.0 * 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo default ba3-cvx3.cablei 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 ppp0 now, if I understand this right the first 3 lines of this output should be doing the job so can anybody tell from this why I can't get to the outside world from 10.10.10.100 or 10.10.10.99 - network comms are fine as SMB, Telnet, FTP HTTP all work to the 10.10.10.200 box but not beyond it hopefully :) Dave david(a)davidhowe.co.uk

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alug-announce digest, Vol 1 #4 - 2 msgs
by alug-announce-admin＠stu.uea.ac.uk 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

Send alug-announce mailing list submissions to alug-announce(a)stu.uea.ac.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug-announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to alug-announce-request(a)stu.uea.ac.uk You can reach the person managing the list at alug-announce-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of alug-announce digest..." *** Please send replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk, not alug-announce... *** oMMMoMo Mo MMMMMMMoMo " "o"o"o"o oMMMoMoM oMMMMMM"MMM" " " " " " "o"o "oMMMoMMM " oMo"M"oo MM" " MoMoMMMMMMM oM " " "oMMM " " MoMMMMMoMoMoooo Mo MMM MoMoMMMMMoMMMMM o" MoM " MoMM "MMo"oMoMMMoM"" MM " MMMMo MMMMMoMMMMMM" oM " MoMMM MMMoMMMo"MM Mo" "MMoMo ooMMMMMMMoMo" oMo oMoMMM " "oMoMMMoMoMo MoM oMoMMM MMMMMMMMMoMMM "oM oMoMMM "M"M"MMoMMMo" " o "oo " MMMM" MMMMMoMoM o" " "oM " " " "o MMMoMMMo"o M " oM " " MMMMMMMoMo o" "oMoMoooMo" " o " " MMoMMMoMoMo " "o"o MM"""""""oM oM " "MMo oMMMMMoMMMoMo " """ """ " o"MMMMoMMMoMMMo"MMo"o" o o o oo MMMMMMoMMMoMMMoMoMo MMMMM MMMo oMMM MMMo MMoMMM oMoMMMoMMMoMMMoMMMo"o oMMMMM MMMo oMMM "MMo MMM "MM MMMMMMMoMMMMMMMoMMMM" " " MMo"MMo MMMo oMM" MMMo oMM" """ " MoMMMoMMMoMMMo" " " MMMoMMMo MMMo oMM" MMMo oMM"oMoMo " "MMoMMMoMMM " " MMMMMMMo MMMo oMM" MMMo oMM" "MM oMMMoMoMoMMMoMMMoMo" " oMM" "oMM" "MMMMM" "MMMMM" MMMoMM" ooMMMMMMMoMMMMMMMoMMMoMo "M" " " " " " """ """ "oM """oMM" " " "MMoMMMoMMMoMM" " " " " " " " alug-announce : The Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group Today's Topics: 1. [Alug] Next Meet Is BOOKED (David Freeman) 2. Best of ALUG... to 16 July (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 01:57:44 -0700 (PDT) From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> Reply-To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com To: Alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk Subject: [ALUG-announce] [Alug] Next Meet Is BOOKED All, I have booked Martlesham heath scout hut for the 12th august 2001. So the next meet will be sunday 12th August. I will be inviting some members of GLLUG and LONIX. The cost of the hall is £10 and I was going to cover this by raffling off a book and possibly a T-shirt. So Usual system now applies, let me know what you will be bringing in the way of hardware and that you will being coming. ALso Don't forget the LUG BBQ afterwoods. Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! --__--__-- Message: 2 To: alug-announce(a)stu.uea.ac.uk From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> Organization: Cat-killingly bad Date: 16 Jul 2001 21:12:46 +0100 Subject: [ALUG-announce] Best of ALUG... to 16 July OK, we hit a massive off-topic drift near the end and this is, again, very late in being compiled. The next issue should be on Friday. Apologies to all for any bad editing on my part. There's a slightly different format to this edition. Email the main list, alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk to comment if you want. Highlights: IRC Nicknames list published BBQ meeting booked for Martlesham on 12 August Topics: Re: [Alug] linux expo.. Re: [Alug] Retail theropy - AC3, DVD and linux [Alug] Xdefaults [Alug] Curious Re: [Alug] Small question [Alug] latest IRC list [Alug] Suse contact [Alug] Alug Book emporuim Re: [Alug] Sending information between databases [Alug] BEER!!!!!! [Alug] Next Meet Is BOOKED [Alug] Tempest True type font [Alug] Going Alpha Re: [Alug] Which Linux distibution, please? RE: [Alug] Which Linux distibution, please? Re: [Alug] Connection Trauma Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 08:38:02 -0700 (PDT) From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> Subject: Re: [Alug] linux expo.. -- oms101(a)freeuk.com wrote: > > Silly, whats silly? I learnt yesterday whilst talking to the Gay > > person with a tail, "why do i give a shit what others think?" and > > he's right, why do I care? >=20 > He was a nice girl and part of a tail related internet comunity > apparently his girl friend was a fox and he was some other anaimal, > some one I did not know made a joke about beastiality, but a good > relief from the goat sex related topics that sprang up at manlug Actually HE was called moof and is actually not interested in women, so it was his boy friend who is the fox and it was that latters tail he had borrowed. He says there are more like him at http://www.londonfurs.org/ Also he is from kent and is a student at Kent Uni. =20 > Ah poor bunny, why not track down the tail based internet comunity > they seemed fun to. I cant bitch though as It was remarkably > friendly and no matter how desperate you where to get hold of soft > toys people thought it was perfectly natural. ( Bet you cant guess > who that may have been) http://www.londonfurs.org/ - I don't really relate to the furries but the geeks/nerds/hackers which were in the bar I could relate to. > I met Wylug members, ManLug members and sheflug members as well, as > the locals. Its was like a tribal gethering for this nomad. I met Sheflug and manlug and Lonix and GLUG people also a group looking to form a LUG in kent. Like you say it was a tribal gathering. Thanks D ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 17:42:22 +0100 (BST) From: Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Alug] Retail theropy - AC3, DVD and linux On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, David Freeman wrote: > 1) Is it worth getting TV out on a graphics card? for a desktop > machine? IMHO no, unless you want to watch DVDs on a larger screen etc. but I do= n't know if this is supported under Linux. I did have TV out on my last Nvi= dia TNT and never used it. > 2) How well is the geforce 2 MX supported on Linux? I have a GeForce 2 GTS and all Nvidia cards later than the Riva128 are supported with hardware acceleration, BUT the drivers to do this are binary only (they work fine though) Nvidia will not open source them. There is an implementation built into XFree86 that supports them but no hardware acceleration =3D=3D no Quake III. > 3) Are DVD rom drives fixed as a single region? if so how do I unfix > it? Yes, but you can unlock quite a few with a patch (a bit like a Bios update) I don't know where there is a site that tells you more, google might. If you do find more info let me know as I am also looking at some retail therapy! > 4) Do DVD rom drives have a S/PDIF output on the drive? I would of thought that some do and some dont. Sorry I can't be more helpful. > 5) Can any one recommend a cheap sound card which will give me 6 > channel sound output from the DVD drive and allow me to output it to = my > surround amp? Probably one of the cheap Creative Labs would do, again don't know real= ly > 6) What dvd decoding software would people recommend? don't know :-( My god I am soooo tempted to spend money at the moment! I am tempted by= an Athlon 1.2Ghz 512Mb 2100DDR memory, motherboard and DVD drive along wit= h a IBM UDMA100 60Gb hard disk and a Iiyama Vision master Pro 451 19" monit= or, but I have to keep telling myself that I live in the real world and can= 't afford it...... Adam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 20:48:35 +0100 (BST) From: oms101(a)freeuk.com Subject: [Alug] Xdefaults A while ago we where discussing X and .Xdefaults and I discovered that = some people might want some of my settings for X If you type use KDE it can be anoying the way you X applications look a= nd feel is modified by apply changes to all X windows deleting some of your cha= nges to the ~/.Xdefaults file. (I now use ice which is well customised now mayb= e I should post my theme some time to themes.org or even here) at the end of the ~/.Xdefaults file on my account you will see the line <Quote> #include "etc/X/Xresorces/Main" </Quote> This prevents programs overwriting my Xdefault which I set So fav I hav= e only set up a couple of programs The links to a file called Main which further links to setups for 4 applications and looks like=20 <Quote> #include "XTerm" #include "Nedit" #include "Netscape" #include "Ddd" </Quote> The files XTerm Nedit Netscape and Ddd have appended I hope this will improve the look of your X enviroment, The support for= wheel mouse in Xterms and Nedit is now an essential for me. Enjoy Owen - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- Ddd - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- Ddd*XmText.background: black Ddd*XmText.foreground: white - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- Nedit - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- !=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ! NeDiT Settings from OMS !=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ! NEdit*fontList: -*-lucidatypewriter-bold-r-*-*-17-*-*-*-*-*-*-* NEdit*text.selectForeground: red nedit*text.selectBackground: gray80 nedit*text.highlightBackground: red nedit*text.highlightForeground: white nedit.remapDeleteKey: False # NEdit NEdit*text.Translations: #override\n\ Shift<Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>: scroll_up(1)\n\ Shift<Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>: scroll_down(1)\n\ Ctrl<Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>: previous_page()\n\ Ctrl<Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>: next_page(1)\n\ <Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>: scroll_up(3)\n\ <Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>: scroll_down(3)\n nedit.stdOpenDialog: True - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- Netscape - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- !## NETSCAPE Netscape*drawingArea.translations: #replace \ <Btn1Down>: ArmLink() \n\ <Btn2Down>: ArmLink() \n\ ~Shift<Btn1Up>: ActivateLink() \n\ ~Shift<Btn2Up>: ActivateLink(new-window) \ DisarmLink() \n\ Shift<Btn1Up>: ActivateLink(save-only) \ DisarmLink() \n\ Shift<Btn2Up>: ActivateLink(save-only) \ DisarmLink() \n\ <Btn1Motion>: DisarmLinkIfMoved() \n\ <Btn2Motion>: DisarmLinkIfMoved() \n\ <Btn3Motion>: DisarmLinkIfMoved() \n\ <Motion>: DescribeLink() \n\ <Btn3Down>: xfeDoPopup() \n\ <Btn3Up>: ActivatePopup() \n\ Ctrl<Btn4Down>: PageUp()\n\ Ctrl<Btn5Down>: PageDown()\n\ Shift<Btn4Down>: LineUp()\n\ Shift<Btn5Down>: LineDown()\n\ None<Btn4Down>: LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp= ()\n\ None<Btn5Down>: LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()\n\ Alt<Btn4Down>: xfeDoCommand(forward)\n\ Alt<Btn5Down>: xfeDoCommand(back)\n Netscape*globalNonTextTranslations: #override\n\ Shift<Btn4Down>: LineUp()\n\ Shift<Btn5Down>: LineDown()\n\ None<Btn4Down>:LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()\n\ None<Btn5Down>:LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDo= wn()\n\ Alt<Btn4Down>: xfeDoCommand(forward)\n\ Alt<Btn5Down>: xfeDoCommand(back)\n - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- XFMail - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- !=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ! XFMail Settings from OMS !=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ! xfmail*text.Translations: #override\n\=20=20 <Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>:a\n\ <Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>:a\n\ =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- XTerm - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- ! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ! Basic !=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D !Changed as to big a window on display !.xterm.geometry: 80x45 .xterm.geometry: 78x18 .xterm.vt100.background: black .xterm.vt100.foreground: grey .xterm.vt100.color0: #000000 .xterm.vt100.color1: #d36265 .xterm.vt100.color2: #aece91 .xterm.vt100.color3: #e7e18c .xterm.vt100.color4: #7a7ab0 .xterm.vt100.color5: #963c59 .xterm.vt100.color6: #418179 .xterm.vt100.color7: gray .xterm.vt100.color8: gray40 .xterm.vt100.color9: #ef8171 .xterm.vt100.color10: #e5f779 .xterm.vt100.color11: #fff796 .xterm.vt100.color12: #4186be .xterm.vt100.color13: #ef9ebe .xterm.vt100.color14: #71bebe .xterm.vt100.color15: white .xterm*fontMenu*background: green ! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ! Motif ! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D !*XmText.translations: #override\n\ ! <Key>osfDelete: delete-previous-character()\n\ ! <Key>osfBackSpace: delete-next-character()\n ! !*XmTextField.translations: #override\n\ ! <Key>osfDelete: delete-next-character()\n\ ! <Key>osfBackSpace: delete-previous-character()\n ! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ! XTerm ! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D !*vt100.translations: #override \ ! <Key>Home: string("=1B[1~") \n\ ! <Key>Insert: string("=1B[2~") \n\ ! <Key>BackSpace: string("=1B[3~") \n\ ! <Key>End: string("=1B[4~") !=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ! xterm defaults from OMS !=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ! ! !# In the scrollbar we map buttons 5 & 4 to 1 and 2 otherwise, core dump !# This will move proportionnaly to cursor position but we dont know ho= w to !# program the same exact behavior as in the text widget. XTerm.vt100.Scrollbar.translations: #override\n\ <Btn5Down>: StartScroll(Forward)\n\ <Btn4Down>: StartScroll(Backward)\n\ XTerm.vt100.translations: #override\n\ Shift<Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>:scroll-back(1,line)\n\ Shift<Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>:scroll-forw(1,line)\n\ Ctrl<Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>:scroll-back(1,page)\n\ Ctrl<Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>:scroll-forw(1,page)\n\ <Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>:scroll-back(1,halfpage)\n\ <Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>:scroll-forw(1,halfpage)\n\ =20 =20 ! xterm (and friends) XTerm*highlightSelection: true ! Uncomment this to use color for the bold attribute XTerm*VT100*colorBDMode: on XTerm*VT100*colorBD: blue ! Uncomment this to use color for underline attribute XTerm.VT100*colorULMode: on XTerm.VT100*underLine: off XTerm*VT100*colorUL: magenta ! Uncomment this to display the scrollbar XTerm*scrollBar: true ! This resource specifies whether or not to ignore the 'alternate scree= n' ! of applications such as vi. When it is on, these applications will r= estore ! the contents of the screen when they are exited to what they were bef= ore ! they were started. When it is off, the contents of vi will remain on= the ! screen after the program is quit. XTerm.VT100.titeInhibit: true ! Uncomment this to turn off color mode in your xterms !XTerm.VT100*colorMode: off XTerm.VT100*dynamicColors: on ! Number of lines of scrollback to save XTerm*saveLines: 1500 xterm*reverseWrap: true !*visualBell: true *visualBell: False *scrollTtyOutput: False *scrollKey: True !XTerm.vt100.Scrollbar.translations: #override\n\ ! <Btn5Down>: StartScroll(Forward)\n\ ! <Btn4Down>: StartScroll(Backward)\n\ xterm*background: LightYellow2 xterm.eightBitInput: true xterm*multiScroll: on xterm*jumpScroll: on xterm*ScrollBar: on xterm*SaveLines: 2000 ! xterm*VisualBell: true xterm.eightBitOutput: true !xterm*font: -adobe-courier-bold-r-normal--14-140-75-75-m-90-iso8859= -1 !xterm*font: -bitstream-terminal-bold-r-normal--14-140-75-75-m-90-is= o8859-1 xterm*font: 10x20 !This Stuff was cut from the top XTerm*Scrollbar*width: 16 XTerm*Scrollbar*height: 16 XTerm*Scrollbar*shadowWidth: 2 XTerm*Scrollbar*borderWidth: 3 XTerm*RightScrollBar: True *Scrollbar*width: 15 *Scrollbar*height: 15 *Scrollbar*shadowWidth: 2 *Scrollbar*borderWidth: 2 *Scrollbar*cursorName: top_left_arrow *Scrollbar*pushThumb: false *Label*shadowWidth: 2 *Label*borderWidth: 2 *shapeStyle: Rectangle *shadowWidth: 2 *SmeBSB*shadowWidth: 2 *Toggle*highlightThickness: 2 *MenuButton*highlightThickness: 2 *Command*highlightThickness: 2 *Panner*shadowThickness: 2 *SimpleMenu*shadowThickness: 2 *topShadowContrast: 20 *bottomShadowContrast: 45 *PushThumb: False - -----------------filedelimiter----------------------- please note that I have included the Files in the body of the text to a= void hastle, if the delimiter confuses you you can always mail me for the ra= w files Owen ------------------------------ Date: 07 Jul 2001 15:37:39 +0100 From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: [Alug] Curious Well, I was getting some nasty errors on my CDROM recently while trying to play a CD that I knew worked before. XMMS just hung there, while xconsole showed errors about "SeekComplete DriveReady Error". So I rebuilt my kernel with only the drivers I actually use (removing the swsusp patch that makes my machine panic if I try to use it) and that didn't work. I installed ALSA (which debian have now got quite a nice build process for now, I think, although I hacked it about a little bit). The sound quality is absolutely loads better, but it still hung on the "bad" files. I searched around the net a bit, confident that my system was fairly neat and tidy now. Someone mentioned that they see that error when the CD is scratched. I took the CD out, polished it with the "Magic Cloth" I use on my glasses (3 pounds or so from Boots Opticians) and now it works. Ooops. --=20 MJR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 18:06:09 +0100 From: Andrew J Glover <flexifoil(a)btinternet.com> Subject: Re: [Alug] Small question Steve Kuo wrote: > Anyone know how I'd go about taking a screenshot? Not > in KDE or anything, just plain bash If you have Imagemagick (likely) installed, then : import -window root some.jpg Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:13:51 +0100 From: Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com Subject: [Alug] latest IRC list [this will appear on http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/articles/2001a/ircnames.html at midnight tonight, 16 July] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:05:52 -0700 (PDT) From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> Subject: [Alug] Suse contact Does anyone know of the LUG contact in SuSE? I remeber phoning someone before NLD but can't find the name or number. An email address would be useful. Thanks D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:24:57 -0700 (PDT) From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> Subject: [Alug] Alug Book emporuim All, I have just spoken to pearson Education who are offering a discount on there books to ALUG members, we just have to put a link on the web page to there site which if we use gives us the discount. Pearson are offering Prentice hall books which are the publishers of books by Andrew Tanenbaum. Andrews books are some of the best technical ones out there, his book on OS's helped Linus no end when he was writting linux originally. Also his book "Computer Networks" 3rd edition is very good and recommended reading for all members. Whilst on the subject of books, I was thinking of taking Jens page on Lniux books and building it into a larger page with details of the ALUG discounts and also the recommended reading list. Thanks D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:15:29 +0100 From: Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> Subject: Re: [Alug] Sending information between databases On Wed, 11 Jul, 2001 at 9:50 +0100, Ashley T. Howes Ph.D. wrote: > It's a general question more than anything. Assume the database does= not > support native replication. Hrm. All I can say is, perhaps it's time to consider a database that DOES support native replication? Doing it yourself is going to be at best tricky, at worst prone to errors and omissions. When you're talking abo= ut customers valuable data, this is a BAD thing. There's plenty of free databases out there that support it, so there's little cost argument against (aside from time to implement). Heck, even MySQL supports replication now, and you should all know my thoughts on *that* particular RDBMS-wannabe by now.... ;-) Andrew. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:41:13 -0700 (PDT) From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> Subject: [Alug] BEER!!!!!! List, Is anyone on the list planning on going to the linux beer hike in belguim at the end of august? Seriously contemplating it.=20=20 Thanks D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 01:57:44 -0700 (PDT) From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> Subject: [Alug] Next Meet Is BOOKED All, I have booked Martlesham heath scout hut for the 12th august 2001.=20 So the next meet will be sunday 12th August. I will be inviting some members of GLLUG and LONIX. The cost of the hall is =A310 and I was going to cover this by raffling off a book and possibly a T-shirt. So Usual system now applies, let me know what you will be bringing in the way of hardware and that you will being coming. ALso Don't forget the LUG BBQ afterwoods. Thanks D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 05:35:34 -0700 (PDT) From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> Subject: [Alug] Tempest True type font Does anyone know of a true type font which should screw up tempest equipment? I know pgp shipped with one but I need a free anti-tempest font. Thanks D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:52:52 -0700 (PDT) From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> Subject: [Alug] Going Alpha All, My web site has now gone alpha. So could I ask for people to take a look and let me know of any bugs, speiling misstakes etc... Also constructive criticism would be nice. http://freemadi.alug.org.uk/ Thanks D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 00:00:12 +0100 (BST) From: Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Alug] Which Linux distibution, please? On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 Ruleng(a)aol.com wrote: > If there is not enough disk space for a recommended distribution= , would > it be possible for me to use only part of it at first, a= nd which > parts should a novice select? I would appreciate any advice that y= ou could > give me. Oh yeah, there is also this HOW-TO document for getting linux on a lapt= op with less than 4Mb of RAM and a hard disk of around 200Mb which you can find here http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/4mb-Laptops.html which may be useful. I just had a look at the Slackware website and it does say the minimum system is 16Mb of RAM and 50Mb of harddisk so that may be more suitable for you http://www.slackware.org Adam ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 23:39:08 +0100 (BST) From: oms101(a)freeuk.com Subject: RE: [Alug] Which Linux distibution, please? SuSe tends to be a bit bulky maybe debian, which I would not normally a= dvice to A) a begginer B) some one without free internet access. ( I know Suse w= ill install in that size though the default kernal is now pentium optimised= so not 486 compatable) Owen=20 (SuSe user) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 23:32:33 +0100 From: Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Alug] Connection Trauma On Sun, Jul 15, 2001 at 10:06:58PM +0100, David Howe wrote: > Win2K machine is looking to 10.10.10.200 for web pages (for example) > but is not getting any further i.e. getting no imformation from > 10.10.10.200's ppp0 connection. ppp0 was set up in linuxconf rather > than kppp and connects fine at boot and the "set default route" > option is checked. I have no default route set as Linuxconf help > suggested not to for ppp connections as they sort it themselves As you have 10.something addresses on your LAN, simple IP forwarding will not be enough to enable the machines on your LAN to access the internet using the Linux box as a gateway. If you are only interested in web access then you could install a web proxy server like squid or wwwoffle on the Linux box and configure you LAN client to use the Linux box as a web proxy. This is an especially useful arrangement if you have more than one LAN client as the proxy can cache things and the cache is shared by all the clients. For other protocols (mail, news, games etc.) you will need to configure IP masquerading on the Linux box. There is a HOWTO on this at the Linux documentation project site (http://www.linuxdoc.org/) Steve. ------------------------------ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ alug-announce mailing list alug-announce(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug-announce End of alug-announce Digest

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Connection Traumas revisited
by David Howe 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

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Off Topic?
by John Seago 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

David Freeman wants us to return to topic and his first act is to use a quote which uses religion as an analogy for the sectarian divides in the linux/free/open community! `dons' & `asbestos' to get back to the subject which started all this. John Seago

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Re: [Alug] Where to buy a Slackware 8.0 box in the UK?
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

Joww Win wrote: >I arrive back in the UK on the weekend and would like to order a boxed >Slackware ASAP. Can anyone tell me where I can buy one from in the UK. Joss - here you go: http://www.cheeplinux.co.uk/cat.pl?session_id=&search=slackware Jenny.

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Where to buy a Slackware 8.0 box in the UK?
by Joss Winn 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

Hiya, I've just bought an old P133 Dell laptop for writing essays and using a shell account on and think I want to put Slackware on it. I arrive back in the UK on the weekend and would like to order a boxed Slackware ASAP. Can anyone tell me where I can buy one from in the UK. I've used the Linux Emporium in the past but they still don't have the boxed sets. Thanks Joss

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Linux in the news
by David Freeman 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

All, For a nice return to topic. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/in_depth/sci_tech/2000/dot_life/newsid_144… is a good story on techy gadgets and mentions linux and the I love linux camps etc... Most interesting. I like the bit "Old Amiga and Acorn computers have legions of fans, as does the ill-fated Apple Newton; there are Palm patriots and Ericsson evangelists. And there are thousands who worship at the church of Linux and its associated technologies. " Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] Language, Education, Religion and History
by MJ Ray 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

Sorry, folks. I think we're going to have to draw a line under this off-topic discussion of spelling and religion. People are unsubscribing from the list en masse, including some active participants, and there are more than enough other places to have this discussion, particularly in uk.* newsgroups. If someone wants to nominate an alternative place for it to continue, or bring the discussion back on-topic, that's OK, but otherwise expect the email-eater to be in use for the first time ever.

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Parental education was Re: [Alug] Going Alpha
by Earl Brannigan 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

Hi guys, Really a point of order... sorry list, this has sod all to do with Linux. OK, Gotta have two penneth here, happen to be well versed in both Theology and Religious History, I have for 5 years also been involved in cult exit counselling so I have seen the extremes of religious practice. David Freeman wrote: > To: Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com, alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > --- Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com wrote: > > > > > > >The problem > > >is parenting ansd socail responsiblity aren't impressed upon people, > > >which as much as it hurts me to say it, because the lack of > > infleunce > > >of religion on people. The church had the role of teaching people on > > >moral issues and educating and supporting them through raising there > > >off spring. Because of enforcing bible in latin only and underpinning the snobbish practice of french being the de-facto language of the ruling classes the Church (ie the Catholic Church as-was) enforced ignorance on people. Thus the masses were not empowered by a moral code because they were unable to read it. Anyone translating the Bible into the common tongue was burned at the stake for it. After the reformation the bible ("the common Moral code") became available to all in the common tongue, however one still had to fall in line with the received interpretation of such else face a similar penalty. Thus rather than an morally uplifting mechanism for society religion has merely been a conformance-enforcement mechanism for a pre-determined 'moral, legal' code. > > Jen's soapbox of the day: > > Religion does not have a monopoly on morality. Religion is > > responsible > > for a lot of bad stuff. Religion was made to control, and the people > > in > > charge of it abuse their power. Morality through fear is not a > > solution. People have a monopoly on morality. People have chosen over the years to abdicate the responsibility that comes with morality to Religion. Morality is in effect conscience with laws. We know its wrong to commit murder, but without a common agreed law we would have nothing to train our consciences of that fact. Religion gives direction to our morality, validation and enforcement. Allowing us to trust our consciences by ensuring it complies with the moral code as interpreted by religion. The post-modernist world does away with the 'absolute truth' aspect of religious beleif ("Well, if it's true for you" is the mantra of the post-modernist). I think it is this aspect of society that is being highlighted in the comments leading up to this exchange. > > true, it is not an ideal situation, and I am in know way religious. But > they acted as a guide and the simple existance of a book of rules which > people read helps (bible , Torah etc...) The problem we have here is > one best described by Douglas adams "any person whos wants to be > presedent shouldn't be" and the same is true for the church, > unfortunatly like most big institutions it becam corrupt. > > > Intelligence and understanding should be the teachers of humanity. > > And how > > are people going to be intelligent or understanding without a fair > > chance > > in life? > > And in history who where the few literate people? the church, who would > then be able to guide people? the church. who had medical knowlegde? > the church. As mentioned above, corruption becomes possible through the concentration of such power (assertion : knowledge=power) in the hands of a select few. > > The church has been the corner stone of our society for so long and > although bits of it are corrupt it's overall effect has been a good > one. Good being a relative term, had the Church not survived beyond the 1st Century we cannot say whether the final result would have been good or bad. (ie better or worse than what actually happened) > > > There's nowt as strange as folks. > > So true. Hope this doesn't offend the religious persuasions of anyone on the list.. Regards Earl

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Re: [Alug] Going Alpha
by MJ Ray 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > Also can people not reply to the poster and the list, just the list > will do. Now this is an age-old debate. Some people (including myself) actually quite like to get cc's, as it means that those actively involved in the discussion get responses to their messages quicker than if it's bounced via the list server first. However, others dislike the duplicate messages. There is no right answer to this one, I suspect.

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Language, Education, Religion and History
by John Seago 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

Interestingly the grammer/spelling discussion has now reached the point where it touches upon religion. It is (probably mistakenly) my understanding that European Christianity owes its current position to the decision taken by the Roman Empire to use it as an extension of its political influence. However if one looks at the other institution used to extend the political influence of the Roman Empire, the Roman Army, the latter is currently older than the Church. John Seago

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