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Re: [Alug] Curious
by MJ Ray 08 Jul '01

08 Jul '01

Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> writes: > Heh. I just punt everything through my stereo. I don't think it does my > ears a favour though (or my neighbours, come to think of it). If your soundcard is producing substandard output, surely this just gets you a better rendition of it, not any better quality signal? -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Small question
by MJ Ray 08 Jul '01

08 Jul '01

Andrew J Glover <flexifoil(a)btinternet.com> writes: > import -window root some.jpg png for screenshots, surely? Depends if you have a photo-like backdrop, I guess. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] What have I done wrong now!
by MJ Ray 08 Jul '01

08 Jul '01

John Seago <john.seago(a)btinternet.com> writes: > Error Message Unknown Host mail.btinternet.com. > > As it is sending and receiving through btinternet why is it an unknown host? Is that exactly what you've typed and definitely the right host to use? "unknown host" indicates exactly that... it can't find the host you've give it. If it's really right, maybe your ISP is at fault. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Small question
by MJ Ray 08 Jul '01

08 Jul '01

Steve Kuo <drakioned(a)yahoo.co.uk> writes: > Anyone know how I'd go about taking a screenshot? Not > in KDE or anything, just plain bash Lots of ways. GIMP has a "Screenshot" menu entry, for example. -- MJR

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Curious
by MJ Ray 08 Jul '01

08 Jul '01

Well, I was getting some nasty errors on my CDROM recently while trying to play a CD that I knew worked before. XMMS just hung there, while xconsole showed errors about "SeekComplete DriveReady Error". So I rebuilt my kernel with only the drivers I actually use (removing the swsusp patch that makes my machine panic if I try to use it) and that didn't work. I installed ALSA (which debian have now got quite a nice build process for now, I think, although I hacked it about a little bit). The sound quality is absolutely loads better, but it still hung on the "bad" files. I searched around the net a bit, confident that my system was fairly neat and tidy now. Someone mentioned that they see that error when the CD is scratched. I took the CD out, polished it with the "Magic Cloth" I use on my glasses (3 pounds or so from Boots Opticians) and now it works. Ooops. -- MJR

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What have I done wrong now!
by John Seago 08 Jul '01

08 Jul '01

Having had problems with setting up Balsa, I used another user name to set up the KDE mail client, and whilst it will send and receive, It shows me the Error Message Unknown Host mail.btinternet.com. As it is sending and receiving through btinternet why is it an unknown host? John Seago

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Small question
by Steve Kuo 08 Jul '01

08 Jul '01

Anyone know how I'd go about taking a screenshot? Not in KDE or anything, just plain bash ===== --------------- Steve Kuo "How can we claim to be an advanced and civilized society when no other creatures on Earth develops technology to blow themselves up three times over?" ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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Re: [Alug] Some help with Mulinux, please.
by MJ Ray 08 Jul '01

08 Jul '01

Andrew J Glover <flexifoil(a)btinternet.com> writes: > By its name, I would think its an extension of another WM, aewm: > http://www.red-bean.com/~decklin/aewm/ Correct. Frank Hale translated it to C++, via http://sapphire.sourceforge.net/ and we're still working on tidying up that core. That should be a work-alike of aewm, which I don't find particularly easy to use. I'm maintaining my work as a patch so that I can merge in fixes to aewm++ as they become available. My little fork adds in some features that I miss such as: - right-side grab bar which moves the window like the title bar - raise on move - resize box at bottom right - split minimise and maximise buttons - funky 3d shading effect - removes at least two semantic bugs in button presses I use the included root menu applications, but I've also got apps (goodies, in the terminology of the project) which do such things as virtual desktops, hot keys, autoraise, a "busy watch" pointer when CPU is busy and alt-tab window switching. Other people are working on adding automake/autoconf and writing a decent root menu goodie. Some time, we may get around to adding FreeDesktop wm-spec support so that it'll play nice with GNOME-aware apps. The basic idea is to make the window management system as modular as is practical, so you can choose the right mix of features for you, minimise your memory usage and maximise the speed. Don't like alt-tab? Don't have it! Want different root menus? Fine, just replace the goodies concerned! All this without having a bloated window manager that supports all possibilities. That's the bit which will take some packaging together, preferably with a "control panel" or something that lets you switch features off and on. Anyway, until then, I'll send the patch to whoever wants it. I guess I'll say something on-list when it's packaged. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Some help with Mulinux, please.
by MJ Ray 08 Jul '01

08 Jul '01

Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> writes: > a small window manager (like fvwm) [...] My feelings are hurt. aewm++-1.0.3mjr3 is the place to be ;-) One day I might even release it. -- MJR

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amigo
by Jenny Hopkins 08 Jul '01

08 Jul '01

Neil Sedger wrote: >'CLI' eh? >I spot an ex-Amiga user :-) Sorry to disappoint you! No, a neal Stephenson reader! Jen

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Some help with Mulinux, please.
by Ruleng＠aol.com 08 Jul '01

08 Jul '01

Hello Everyone. My name is Norman Rule as you see. I am 70 years old, and use a Dan computer which had an i486 DX-33, since enhanced to 133Mh with an Evergreen upgrade. I have two hard disks with a total of about 650 Mb, but as yet no functional CDROM drive. I use MSDOS 6.2, enhanced with 4DOS, and I have Windows for Workgroups, which I only use for programs that demand it. I would like to try Linux as an alternative to examine its possibilities, and from reading believe my system will suffice. However, I decided to start off by trying the Italian small offering called Mulinux. I have been able to start this system either from my hard drive, or from a Boot+Root+Usr 1.772 Mb floppy. My problem is that there are several add-ons that one should be able to introduce with such titles as X11, GCC, VNC, TEX, etc. I have had continuous failure to add these, and since I only have 3 hours a month on the Net from AOL I feel that I cannot spend too much time trying to download different material in a blind attempt to solve my problems. There seem to be no useful documents to help ones first efforts. If anyone has the experience of Mulinux and the time to help me I would be very grateful. By the way, I dabble in Assembly Language and have one or two questions on that if there is anyone out there who would have time to help me. I do have a 40X CDROM drive but so far have not been able to get that to function either. I get the message that an appropriate driver cannot be found. I realise that this group is primarily interested in Linux, so I would ask for any help with that first, please. Sincere regards, Norman G. Rule

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Re: [Alug] Arrrrggg!
by MJ Ray 08 Jul '01

08 Jul '01

Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> writes: > Have you got samples of blood-curdling horror screams on each of the > notes from C3 to C4 inclusive? I'm sure it's not too hard to find one and snd and sox are wonderful tools... I'd do it for you, but I'm off in deep hacking atm... -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Retail theropy - AC3, DVD and linux
by MJ Ray 08 Jul '01

08 Jul '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > I have heard compiling X is something of a black art, is this the case? No, it's an apt-get sequence. > as you know I have know problem compiling my own programs for th OS. ? > I only need X 4 for Quake and Herione warrior, can you use unstable > packages with a stable release? Not usually, but people have packaged X'4 for stable too. I installed it on a tsw machine recently and it worked happily, although two packages had dodgy dependencies against X'3 and had to be recompiled. -- MJR

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Xdefaults
by oms101＠freeuk.com 08 Jul '01

08 Jul '01

A while ago we where discussing X and .Xdefaults and I discovered that some people might want some of my settings for X If you type use KDE it can be anoying the way you X applications look and feel is modified by apply changes to all X windows deleting some of your changes to the ~/.Xdefaults file. (I now use ice which is well customised now maybe I should post my theme some time to themes.org or even here) at the end of the ~/.Xdefaults file on my account you will see the line <Quote> #include "etc/X/Xresorces/Main" </Quote> This prevents programs overwriting my Xdefault which I set So fav I have only set up a couple of programs The links to a file called Main which further links to setups for 4 applications and looks like <Quote> #include "XTerm" #include "Nedit" #include "Netscape" #include "Ddd" </Quote> The files XTerm Nedit Netscape and Ddd have appended I hope this will improve the look of your X enviroment, The support for wheel mouse in Xterms and Nedit is now an essential for me. Enjoy Owen ------------------filedelimiter----------------------- Ddd ------------------filedelimiter----------------------- Ddd*XmText.background: black Ddd*XmText.foreground: white ------------------filedelimiter----------------------- Nedit ------------------filedelimiter----------------------- !========================================================================== ! NeDiT Settings from OMS !========================================================================== ! NEdit*fontList: -*-lucidatypewriter-bold-r-*-*-17-*-*-*-*-*-*-* NEdit*text.selectForeground: red nedit*text.selectBackground: gray80 nedit*text.highlightBackground: red nedit*text.highlightForeground: white nedit.remapDeleteKey: False # NEdit NEdit*text.Translations: #override\n\ Shift<Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>: scroll_up(1)\n\ Shift<Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>: scroll_down(1)\n\ Ctrl<Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>: previous_page()\n\ Ctrl<Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>: next_page(1)\n\ <Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>: scroll_up(3)\n\ <Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>: scroll_down(3)\n nedit.stdOpenDialog: True ------------------filedelimiter----------------------- Netscape ------------------filedelimiter----------------------- !## NETSCAPE Netscape*drawingArea.translations: #replace \ <Btn1Down>: ArmLink() \n\ <Btn2Down>: ArmLink() \n\ ~Shift<Btn1Up>: ActivateLink() \n\ ~Shift<Btn2Up>: ActivateLink(new-window) \ DisarmLink() \n\ Shift<Btn1Up>: ActivateLink(save-only) \ DisarmLink() \n\ Shift<Btn2Up>: ActivateLink(save-only) \ DisarmLink() \n\ <Btn1Motion>: DisarmLinkIfMoved() \n\ <Btn2Motion>: DisarmLinkIfMoved() \n\ <Btn3Motion>: DisarmLinkIfMoved() \n\ <Motion>: DescribeLink() \n\ <Btn3Down>: xfeDoPopup() \n\ <Btn3Up>: ActivatePopup() \n\ Ctrl<Btn4Down>: PageUp()\n\ Ctrl<Btn5Down>: PageDown()\n\ Shift<Btn4Down>: LineUp()\n\ Shift<Btn5Down>: LineDown()\n\ None<Btn4Down>: LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()\n\ None<Btn5Down>: LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()\n\ Alt<Btn4Down>: xfeDoCommand(forward)\n\ Alt<Btn5Down>: xfeDoCommand(back)\n Netscape*globalNonTextTranslations: #override\n\ Shift<Btn4Down>: LineUp()\n\ Shift<Btn5Down>: LineDown()\n\ None<Btn4Down>:LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()\n\ None<Btn5Down>:LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()\n\ Alt<Btn4Down>: xfeDoCommand(forward)\n\ Alt<Btn5Down>: xfeDoCommand(back)\n ------------------filedelimiter----------------------- XFMail ------------------filedelimiter----------------------- !========================================================================== ! XFMail Settings from OMS !========================================================================== ! xfmail*text.Translations: #override\n\ <Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>:a\n\ <Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>:a\n\ ------------------filedelimiter----------------------- XTerm ------------------filedelimiter----------------------- ! =========================================================================== ! Basic !=========================================================================== !Changed as to big a window on display !.xterm.geometry: 80x45 .xterm.geometry: 78x18 .xterm.vt100.background: black .xterm.vt100.foreground: grey .xterm.vt100.color0: #000000 .xterm.vt100.color1: #d36265 .xterm.vt100.color2: #aece91 .xterm.vt100.color3: #e7e18c .xterm.vt100.color4: #7a7ab0 .xterm.vt100.color5: #963c59 .xterm.vt100.color6: #418179 .xterm.vt100.color7: gray .xterm.vt100.color8: gray40 .xterm.vt100.color9: #ef8171 .xterm.vt100.color10: #e5f779 .xterm.vt100.color11: #fff796 .xterm.vt100.color12: #4186be .xterm.vt100.color13: #ef9ebe .xterm.vt100.color14: #71bebe .xterm.vt100.color15: white .xterm*fontMenu*background: green ! =========================================================================== ! Motif ! =========================================================================== !*XmText.translations: #override\n\ ! <Key>osfDelete: delete-previous-character()\n\ ! <Key>osfBackSpace: delete-next-character()\n ! !*XmTextField.translations: #override\n\ ! <Key>osfDelete: delete-next-character()\n\ ! <Key>osfBackSpace: delete-previous-character()\n ! =========================================================================== ! XTerm ! =========================================================================== !*vt100.translations: #override \ ! <Key>Home: string("[1~") \n\ ! <Key>Insert: string("[2~") \n\ ! <Key>BackSpace: string("[3~") \n\ ! <Key>End: string("[4~") !============================================================================= ! xterm defaults from OMS !============================================================================= ! ! !# In the scrollbar we map buttons 5 & 4 to 1 and 2 otherwise, core dump !# This will move proportionnaly to cursor position but we dont know how to !# program the same exact behavior as in the text widget. XTerm.vt100.Scrollbar.translations: #override\n\ <Btn5Down>: StartScroll(Forward)\n\ <Btn4Down>: StartScroll(Backward)\n\ XTerm.vt100.translations: #override\n\ Shift<Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>:scroll-back(1,line)\n\ Shift<Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>:scroll-forw(1,line)\n\ Ctrl<Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>:scroll-back(1,page)\n\ Ctrl<Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>:scroll-forw(1,page)\n\ <Btn4Down>,<Btn4Up>:scroll-back(1,halfpage)\n\ <Btn5Down>,<Btn5Up>:scroll-forw(1,halfpage)\n\ ! xterm (and friends) XTerm*highlightSelection: true ! Uncomment this to use color for the bold attribute XTerm*VT100*colorBDMode: on XTerm*VT100*colorBD: blue ! Uncomment this to use color for underline attribute XTerm.VT100*colorULMode: on XTerm.VT100*underLine: off XTerm*VT100*colorUL: magenta ! Uncomment this to display the scrollbar XTerm*scrollBar: true ! This resource specifies whether or not to ignore the 'alternate screen' ! of applications such as vi. When it is on, these applications will restore ! the contents of the screen when they are exited to what they were before ! they were started. When it is off, the contents of vi will remain on the ! screen after the program is quit. XTerm.VT100.titeInhibit: true ! Uncomment this to turn off color mode in your xterms !XTerm.VT100*colorMode: off XTerm.VT100*dynamicColors: on ! Number of lines of scrollback to save XTerm*saveLines: 1500 xterm*reverseWrap: true !*visualBell: true *visualBell: False *scrollTtyOutput: False *scrollKey: True !XTerm.vt100.Scrollbar.translations: #override\n\ ! <Btn5Down>: StartScroll(Forward)\n\ ! <Btn4Down>: StartScroll(Backward)\n\ xterm*background: LightYellow2 xterm.eightBitInput: true xterm*multiScroll: on xterm*jumpScroll: on xterm*ScrollBar: on xterm*SaveLines: 2000 ! xterm*VisualBell: true xterm.eightBitOutput: true !xterm*font: -adobe-courier-bold-r-normal--14-140-75-75-m-90-iso8859-1 !xterm*font: -bitstream-terminal-bold-r-normal--14-140-75-75-m-90-iso8859-1 xterm*font: 10x20 !This Stuff was cut from the top XTerm*Scrollbar*width: 16 XTerm*Scrollbar*height: 16 XTerm*Scrollbar*shadowWidth: 2 XTerm*Scrollbar*borderWidth: 3 XTerm*RightScrollBar: True *Scrollbar*width: 15 *Scrollbar*height: 15 *Scrollbar*shadowWidth: 2 *Scrollbar*borderWidth: 2 *Scrollbar*cursorName: top_left_arrow *Scrollbar*pushThumb: false *Label*shadowWidth: 2 *Label*borderWidth: 2 *shapeStyle: Rectangle *shadowWidth: 2 *SmeBSB*shadowWidth: 2 *Toggle*highlightThickness: 2 *MenuButton*highlightThickness: 2 *Command*highlightThickness: 2 *Panner*shadowThickness: 2 *SimpleMenu*shadowThickness: 2 *topShadowContrast: 20 *bottomShadowContrast: 45 *PushThumb: False ------------------filedelimiter----------------------- please note that I have included the Files in the body of the text to avoid hastle, if the delimiter confuses you you can always mail me for the raw files Owen Date: 07-Jul-01 Time: 14:03:59

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Re: [Alug] Arrrrggg!
by MJ Ray 07 Jul '01

07 Jul '01

Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> writes: > So I have knocked up a very quick and dirty (i.e. second take) MP3 > of this which you can listen to at > http://www.pelvoux.demon.co.uk/alug/argghh.mp3. Have you tried it with cut-ins of blood-curdling horror screams? ;-) -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Arrrrggg!
by MJ Ray 07 Jul '01

07 Jul '01

Earl Brannigan <earl.brannigan(a)lindenhouse.co.uk> writes: > To the tune of Doh Reh Me from The Sound of Music : I dare one of our more musically-inclined members to cut together an mp3 of this... -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Retail theropy - AC3, DVD and linux
by MJ Ray 07 Jul '01

07 Jul '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > So does the latest debian have X 4? if not how easy is it to add with > KDE as WM (might change to the one the Peter showed me. It's fairly easy if you read from debianplanet.org and are prepared to recompile a few packages. Or if you mean "unstable" by "latest", yes, it probably has X4. Yes, Xine is a good player. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Retail theropy - AC3, DVD and linux
by MJ Ray 07 Jul '01

07 Jul '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > PS I think rabbit did fall over based on some pinging and a bit og > guess work, thanks to the techies who got it back on, who ever you are. Rabbit is a breezeblock. Doesn't fall over, although it's a bit porous sometimes. -- MJR

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Retail theropy - AC3, DVD and linux
by David Freeman 07 Jul '01

07 Jul '01

List, I feel the need for some new hardware. I was thinking for some time of getting a new graphics card, the Geforce 2 MX powered ASUS cards look nice. But I also decided I would get a DVD drive. This leaves me with some questions. 1) Is it worth getting TV out on a graphics card? for a desktop machine? 2) How well is the geforce 2 MX supported on Linux? 3) Are DVD rom drives fixed as a single region? if so how do I unfix it? 4) Do DVD rom drives have a S/PDIF output on the drive? 5) Can any one recommend a cheap sound card which will give me 6 channel sound output from the DVD drive and allow me to output it to my surround amp? 6) What dvd decoding software would people recommend? I think that was all. Thanks D PS did rabbit go down today Mark? PPS Owen, did I send my last email to you or the list? ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] linux expo..
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 07 Jul '01

07 Jul '01

David freeman wrote: >PS Jen: I have an IBM football for you Brilliant! Thanks greatly. >We marched through with penguin held hi chanting FOLLOW THE PENGUIN! You silly, silly things, you. Wish I'd been there! Did you, like, merge lugs? Jenny.

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Re: [Alug] I here God
by MJ Ray 07 Jul '01

07 Jul '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > Now your must be evil, this sounds like a great trick, Must work out > how to do this. The sound of Big wheel eminating from black. You need the pcsp patches. They have to be tidied a bit to work with 2.2.19 last I checked, but it can be done. If I was clever, I'd compile a new version of the patch myself. -- MJR

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I here God
by David Freeman 07 Jul '01

07 Jul '01

Well not really, but do a cat zmlinuz > /dev/audio So strange! I love it! Hmmm, what does gcc sound like? Thanks D ===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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RE: [Alug] Arrrrggg!
by Earl Brannigan 07 Jul '01

07 Jul '01

Yoiks Scoobz.... On 06 July 2001 12:08, Neill Newman [SMTP:neill@entora.co.uk] wrote: > Earl Brannigan wrote: > > > > > > Hi Dave... > > Its No Joke... its very serious! > > > > Neill has a serious problem expressing his dislike of certain > > things...especially where programming is concerned. > > I have nnooo problems expressing my thoughts.. it's just that other > people don't understand my grunts ;)... > > > To humour him I entertain his little expressions, Argggghhh being the prime > > one. > > Eventually when evolution has completed its course future generations of > > Newmans will be able to use language much like the rest of us do today, > > Until then Argggghhhh!!!!! is about as close as he can get to "I don't like > > it that way..." > > that depends on where you place the inflections ;) aarrgghhh is a cross > platform, cross culture, cross dressed expression that spans many Is Arrggghhh Male? Just trying to imagine a Cross Dressed Version, perhaps wearing some Ann Summers stuff.... > languages.. even the Russians on MIR used the expression when bits fell > off! Apparently, but "In Space No-One can hear you Arrrggghhh" ... And I'm sure it was closer to : ARRRGGGHHH-ski > > > The speech therapist says he is making good progress and that next week > > they will be studying two-syllabled words!! > > I'm currently progressing onto more expressive one-syllable words such > as "D'oh", and now that it is offically part of the english language I'm > bold enough to say that, give enough time, and enough trained monkeys, I > might be able to knock up some perl poetry in about 2 million years... > > until then.. arrgghh and D'oh is about my limit ;) > Sz > To the tune of Doh Reh Me from The Sound of Music : All together now.... Arrggghhh a grunt, a moanful grunt, Arrggghhh expresses how you feel. Arrggghhh a name I call my mom, Arrggghhh a burp after a meal. Arrggghhh A chat up line to work, Arrggghhh to get rid of a jerk, Arrggghhh to send your dog berserk, That will bring us back to AAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!

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Re: [Alug] Encrypting disks...
by MJ Ray 07 Jul '01

07 Jul '01

Andrew J Glover <flexifoil(a)btinternet.com> writes: > /usr/include/linux is supposed to be a symlink to > /usr/src/linux/include/linux, isnt it? No. Never. If you do that, if you replace your kernel source (eg to start moving to another kernel version or patchset, but not immediately), you could find yourself linking against the wrong kernel headers. Especially if (like me), you have more than one kernel lying around in similar locations. Or what if you decide to delete the kernel source because you broke it badly while hacking it? On debian, you'll also confuse the kernel-headers package that was installed when you installed your system. I think other distributions have similar packages. Use the kernel-headers package made by your make-kpkg. You know it makes sense. (Make sure that it's the right one for the kernel, though.) -- MJR

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3 button mouse
by John Seago 07 Jul '01

07 Jul '01

I think I've found the easiest answer, that is to use the dialogue box when updating, at least it looks to me much less scary than tackling the command line stuff. having managed to get balsa to take incoming Emails as well as sending, (I've got KDE to work for Emails), I then tried to get Pan to work, but both it and Balsa seem to have terrible 'Authentication' problems lots of error messages and then crashing. This is probably something I've done, but as I have no idea what I'm doing I can't tell. Pan won't work, according to the log, as I can't log on to BTinternet news, KDE Email is also reporting 'bad log' with BT, I re-typed all my passwords so I don't think its that so it must be something I've done when I installed and attempted to configure it. Coping with this, (Linux), is getting to be more of a full time job than a simple change to a reliable system, still it fills the days, and the nights, and all the time when I should be doing something else, perhaps I should get some Debian Disks, then the learning process involved in getting it installed and configured might enable me to work it when I've got it in! John Seago

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