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RE: [Alug] RE: Linux Expo...
by Earl Brannigan 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

Hi again > because Java is lovely, well thought out language, I do admit that the > implementation is a little dodgy ;).... > > > in that case I might as well use VB or even C# (yyyyyak!). > > now you are being silly ;).. > OK I am being silly, I mean VB .NET ;o) > yep, I'll give you some of those, although I might argue that "Faster, > More robust, reducing programmer effort" depends greatly on the > programmer... And since I am the programmer in question the point still stands!! No seriously, actually writing effective generic templates often takes longer than writing 400 very similar classes. >c++ is actually very nasty in a OO sense.. it is C with > object orientation and loads of other 'usefull' things bolted on.. pure > C is nice, C++ is not imho ;).. > Modern C++ (as opposed to Classic/Common C++) is not C extended, it is not a superset of C, it is a separate, albeit related language. Give me well written modern C++ anytime. (though I do love C, I take this view because I actually learned C++ b4 C and found that way around that C seems very 'limited'). > > No runtime stuff required... compile and run...done. (ok so you have to > > compile for each platform but at least you don't need a massive > > installation of an SDK/JRE just to write your code and test it). > > yep, I agree with that....although there are some issues involved with > porting code (32->64 bits, different memory architectures for example).. > Java just works in these instances.. True. > but how do you know you are in the real world right now ? you might be > inhabiting a virtual mnachine in somebody's mind as we speak ;).. I am actually inhabiting a solar system that is in fact a carbon compound molecule in someone's kitchen table in a parallel and infinitely larger (though relatively equal sized) universe. > aahh step over to the greener side of the grass, I've been using > Java/C++ for 7 years now, and for what I do (network programming/console > based apps) Java is very cute. Once thing I will say here.. Java and GUI > do not mix well.. I can't stand Java GUI's, they are a pig to get right, > and each architecture handles them differently.. definatly C/C++ for > gui's ;).. Yep, geve up trying to get swing components to look good after a couple of weeks and used C++ builder instead. cheers Earl

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Free T-shirt
by David Freeman 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

I have an XL O'rielly T-shirt which is going free to a good home. It has "Linux Resource" on the front with the linux horse on it as well. Thanks D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] RE: Linux Expo...
by Adam Bower 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Earl Brannigan wrote: > > just a quick note, which day is everybody planning on going ?? knowing > > my luck I'll turn up on the wrong day !!! Ok I have now officialy changed the day I am going to the Thursday (damn less freebies!) though will probably change again so it is probably best to ignore me until next week :) could perhaps we have a big organising session on who is going on which day on Mondays IRC? Adam -- This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed Adam

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RE: [Alug] RE: Linux Expo...
by Earl Brannigan 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

Hi Scoobz Why Java?..... in that case I might as well use VB or even C# (yyyyyak!). No, C++ for the following reasons : Faster, More robust, templates enable compiler code generation, reducing programmer effort. NOT Proprietary (ie FREE). No runtime stuff required... compile and run...done. (ok so you have to compile for each platform but at least you don't need a massive installation of an SDK/JRE just to write your code and test it). What's more....ALUG members already inhabit a world of their own, why stick em in a virtual machine as well? No...much safer as true compiled binary entities, sanity could be affected otherwise : Imagine waking up one day, realising you inhabit another world, deciding to return to reality only to find that reality is only virtual afterall. Better to find the real world when the light comes on... The Russian Doll complexes generated within each alugite would require very capable virtual psychologists to mend their tiny minds (Or so much virtual beer and pizza that the JRE would crash!) What's more, Alugites, being lovers of freedom could well suffer terrible repercussions should they one day discover "(c) Sun Microsystems" stamped all over their little worlds.... waking up in a virtual machine and then having to agree to a license in order to function......now that is scary! And finally, C++ makes it much easier to code overflowable buffers into each member, to be used in conjunction with my new proprietary 'Take over the world by rooting Linux Users' program, which does exactly what it says on the tin (written in C however for even greater performance... will have to be run on an i386 with 2mb of RAM - but thats another story). Sorry 'bout that bit of existential nonesense, the truth is I can't write java. Sussed! Regs Earl PS Aaaaaargghh to you too! On 28 June 2001 13:03, Neill Newman [SMTP:neill@entora.co.uk] wrote: > Earl Brannigan wrote: > > > > > > Have set out below a functional C++ code framework. Feel Free to edit to > > include yourself ... I have commented where to do this, a simple copy and > > paste replacing details with your own should suffice > > > aarrgghh, write it in Java and I might read it ;).. > > /me puts on flame proof suit, rubbber boots and non-explodable > underpants > Sz > > -- > Open Source Specialists http://www.entora.co.uk/ > Tel: +44 (0)701 0723686 Fax: +44 (0)870 3214368

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Re: [Alug] A complete beginners view
by Neill Newman 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

John Seago wrote: > > Yes it is Red hat 7.1 (Seawolf), I would be grateful for any suggestions you > may have. > John Seago John, I've posted this to the alug list as well, I hope you don't mind as I'm sure others may get caught by this... anyway.. I had this problem a few weeks ago, and it racked my brains for hours.. under one user, all the gnome apps worked, under a different user the gnome apps all crashed out.. The reason was that the applications were trying to retrieve their locale info, which is set by gdm at login. All new users have no locale set, and the gnome apps don't like this one bit. The solution is simple. goto a freshly booted RH7.x box, and select the "english/british" locale from the language menu, then login, all apps should now work flawlessly, well as flawlessly as can be expected ;) I'm not sure who's mistake this is, Redhat/Gnome/User....but I suppose that is what happens when you try to cram locale's into a gui ;)... anyway, I hope this cures all your problems, let me know how you get on... Regards Sz > > On Thursday 28 June 2001 8:31 am, you wrote: > > just a quickie.. Is this redhat 7.0/7.1? if so I might know what is > > happening... > > > > John Seago wrote: > > > Having now got over the initial euphoria of actually having a working > > > (?), (see later), set of "Linux", Chris, my daughters fiancee, and I have > > > now come up against several problems, In my case numbers of applications > > > just don't work,and trying them delivers a bug report window> -- Open Source Specialists http://www.entora.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0)701 0723686 Fax: +44 (0)870 3214368

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Re: [Alug] RE: Linux Expo...
by Neill Newman 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

Earl Brannigan wrote: > > > Have set out below a functional C++ code framework. Feel Free to edit to > include yourself ... I have commented where to do this, a simple copy and > paste replacing details with your own should suffice aarrgghh, write it in Java and I might read it ;).. /me puts on flame proof suit, rubbber boots and non-explodable underpants Sz -- Open Source Specialists http://www.entora.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0)701 0723686 Fax: +44 (0)870 3214368

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A complete beginners view
by John Seago 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

Having now got over the initial euphoria of actually having a working (?), (see later), set of "Linux", Chris, my daughters fiancee, and I have now come up against several problems, In my case numbers of applications just don't work,and trying them delivers a bug report window> I can't believe that a complete system was sent out with a non working spreadsheet, time manager, and other bits that just don't work. I am of the opinion that I haven't installed or set up the system properly or may have installed something that needs other, installed items to work. I am not pleading for help here, unless I can manage to work this out for myself, or in concert with Chris I am not going to get anywhere. the main problem Have is that whatever source of written information I find, I have yet to find one that does not presuppose a certain amount of prior knowledge/experience, which I just don't have. I fact I have to admit that deep down I have a sneaking suspicion that mention of daemons/demons in the long list of scroll down print at the start of the log-in process actually refers to real demons/imps/goblins/elves/fairies that live inside the box to the left of my screen whose main purpose in life is to frustrate me. However both Chris and I are determined to persevere and to learn, so expect to see us at a meeting some time. I now have to start some intense reading. John Seago

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Parking for Linux Expo....
by Simon Parkes 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

Hi All... Just a quick note about parking, there's very little in the Earls Court Area, I work near there and what I have found easiest is parking in (well near it!!) the Dome (£3 per day), and getting the tube accross town. It's also easier to get to the dome from the M11 or A12 as from the M11 you can just go straight on from the A406 and instead of going along the A13 through the Blackwall tunnel go accross the Woowich Ferry turn right and follow the road, you see a demented albino turtle with yellow legs after about 5 miles on the right .... I'm hoping to go down on the 5th, so hope to see some of you guys down there.. Simon

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Re: [Alug] I'm receiving no messages
by MJ Ray 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

"Ashley T. Howes Ph.D." <ashley(a)turton.com> writes: > I have stopped receiving messages on both my work and home account from ALUG There was an electrical shutdown at UEA on Saturday morning. Various other people don't trust sysadmins to power down machines safely in good time and cause system failures instead. Grrr... -- MJR

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RE: Linux Expo...
by Earl Brannigan 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

Hi all, Re my note earlier... just to clarify for anyone considering taking up my offer. I am based in Gazeley Nr Newmarket, I am more than willing to collect people within a reasonable radius but obviously not too far. If you live pretty far afield and you can get a local train to any station close to me for about 8:00am I will collect you. I'm sure Kennet (the closest to me) Bury and Newmarket stations are all served from Ipswitch (unless I am very much mistaken). Collection from any of these is absolutely no problem. Of course if you live within what you would consider a reasonable distance from Gazeley then let me know where and I'll see about collecting you at home. I was thinking of being on-the-road no later than 8:30 ... is that reasonable ? (sorry I don't have the times with me while writing this but I usually make the M25 within 50 mins) So an ETA of between 10-10:30. Obviously if we can get going earlier so much the better. I think that pretty much covers it. Have had 2 enquiries so far. Cheers Earl

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government tobuy proprietry software
by John Seago 26 Jun '01

26 Jun '01

See the lead article in the on-line version of "Linux Format", then find "fax your MP" and let him/herknow what you think of their idea. John Seago

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Promotion of "Linux"
by John Seago 26 Jun '01

26 Jun '01

Now that I am working in/with Linux, i trust that this will get to its destination without collecting unwanted attachments. To return to the Email that did pick up an attachment during its journey. The Workers Education Association, (WEA), run courses on computer literacy etc., in Halesworth, (Suffolk), some of which are subsidised by various governmental initiatives, others are voluntary. the WEA is expanding its activities at the Halesworth Centre. It occurs to me that these, if a Linux aspect could be added to the voluntary courses, would provide an ideal "Promotional" platform. there is also another aspect, the equipment at the Educational Centre is set up using several terminals connected to a server, (to the best of my memory, I took a "Start Computing" course there 18 months ago), which runs Windows/Office. Perhaps they could be persuaded that "Linux" would better suit their needs and its "free". I have found that this, (Red Hat 7.1), is very similar to "Windows/Office", and from my experience so far it is my opinion that it would have been easier to make the transition the other way round! Why doesn't Red hat 7.1 speak English English? John Seago

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Linux Expo...
by Earl Brannigan 26 Jun '01

26 Jun '01

Hi Owen --__--__-- > > Please can I have a lift to the linux exbo I would like to go down day before > an come back day after but will probaly use train if not posible. If anyone > else going please get in touch or add to this thread so we canm go down a the > alug tribe as I think that could be fun for the journey. I shall be driving down on the first day, there and back same day. I have room for a few passengers and would appreciate splitting the petrol/parking with one or more others. I think it would cost about ?15 for petrol + perhaps another ?5 or so parking so we would be looking at ?4-5 each if we fill the car. If anyone is interested mail me off list, I drive a Renault Scenic so there is good room for 4 passengers. BTW I smoke (I open the window obviously ... and the draft sucks the smoke straight out), but if you absolutely hate smoking, I understand... get another lift! ;o) First Come..... Cheers Earl

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Documentation, network cards and printers
by David Freeman 26 Jun '01

26 Jun '01

All, Documentation: Does any one know of a javadoc equivilent for C? Network cards: This was what was stopping me getting my printer to work, my FA311 is dud, the 3Com card works fine, but only at 10Mbps :o( Printers: My rpinter now works now I use the correct network card oo, and finally I found a case tool for Linux, Dia, see the gtk site for more info. Thanks D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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linux and USB! Can it be achieved with SuperMicro P6SBA, AmiBios R1.5b?
by Tim Gowing 26 Jun '01

26 Jun '01

I am having trouble making USB work under Linux (stand alone Linux only system, SuSE 6.3). I have a SuperMicro P6SBA motherboard (PII MMX 266MHz CPU, 440BX chipset hence UHCI host controller) with AmiBios R1.5b. I have compiled kernel 2.2.16 with the 'usb-2.4.0-test2-pre2-for-2.2.16-v3.diff' patch. The error in /var/log/messages is:- "linux kernel: usb-uhci.c: version v1.184 time 01:06:53 Mar 25 2000 linux kernel: usb-uhci.c: Found UHCI device with no IRQ assigned. Check BIOS settings!". In the Bios set-up I have 'USB Function' set to enabled and 'Plug and Play-Aware OS' set to No. I have tried many other permutations of the bios settings. Has anyone made USB operational with this motherboard/Bios? Does anyone have any suggestions for a remedy? Failing all else, can anyone recommend a currently available motherboard that will provide functional USB? Any help much appreciated. Tim.

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Please can I have a lift to Linux Exbo
by oms101＠freeuk.com 25 Jun '01

25 Jun '01

Please can I have a lift to the linux exbo I would like to go down day before an come back day after but will probaly use train if not posible. If anyone else going please get in touch or add to this thread so we canm go down a the alug tribe as I think that could be fun for the journey. PS the Alug member I met on the train although I had never met at Alug I remebered where we met before. I was trying to get my old employers to pay for experianced person to come down to set up linux networking but failed Owen Date: 25-Jun-01 Time: 23:21:41

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Re: SuSE security and updates
by Joss Winn 25 Jun '01

25 Jun '01

> > Neill Newman wrote: > > > Aparently SuSE has something similar to up2date, but I don't know too > > much about it, any SuSE fans care to comment on th autoupdate features > > of Yast ?? > > Well, it seems to work well enough! Alan has used it, I've just watched > him really, but he ticks the boxes for the kinds of things he wants and > off it goes and does its thing. Simple as that, by all accounts... > > Jo Indeed, the SuSE YAST2 online update is as easy as it gets. You click on the update button, it tells you what updates are available and which of those it recommends for your system, you decide what you think you need and then click on a button for it to download and install. You can automate the whole procedure as much or as little as you like. A short while back, I decided to go through the security of my SuSE system and downloaded a SuSE hardening script, a firewall script and a security checker that checks my system for changes daily, weekly and monthly. It took 15 minutes to finish setting up everything. I thought the harden script would inconvenience me in some way but I haven't noticed it at all. Though when I look at files like /etc/hosts.deny, they are hardened versions with good security settings. For what it is worth, SuSE claim to have had the first dedicated security team on any linux dist. and the previous team leader who still works for SuSE has a decent page you can grab the latest stuff from. http://www.suse.com/~marc I'm sure all distributions are very security aware. Though I can only vouch for the convenience of SuSE. Joss -- http://www.josswinn.org

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(no subject)
by Tim Gowing 25 Jun '01

25 Jun '01

-- Regards Tim Gowing

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Problems with Mandrake, silly questions and the result.
by John Seago 25 Jun '01

25 Jun '01

I last wrote to the forum yesterday, I see that there is some problem with something, and it is still undelivered. The good news is that I have overcome the problem, not by finding the solution but by erasing Mandrake 8 from my Hard drive and installing Red Hat 7.1. Mandrake is promoted as a system suitable for beginners, I however found trying to get it to work so frustrating that I considered taking the easy route and buying a hardware upgrade to make Windows/Office 2000 work. Luckily I had made a mistake when ordering the CD's for my prospective son-in-law and myself and bought two sets of each. Having seen how easily his Red Hat went in I installed it in my computer, the installation was about a 1000% easier than Mandrake, (took less than 90 minutes, I've been trying toget Mandrake function for 8 days), it worked first time, connected to the Internet and the web, and is up and running, I do have one problem with the sound card drivers which are there but not functioning. This however is not a problem as I usually work with the sound muted under Windows anyway. John Seago

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Configuring network card (again)
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 25 Jun '01

25 Jun '01

Hello all, I have been given the following info from someone at LNO on trying to get a 3com NIC to work (one that was given to me by an alug member at the last meet, as it happens). Can anyone confirm this is indeed a good thing to do? I tried for a while to get a Dlink card working, then changed it for this 3com one, which I'm not having much success with either. "3c509 isa cards are PnP jumperless nic's - they were designed to work with winders PnP (work great out of the box for that) in linux, it no worky-worky. you have internet access from a winders pc? if yes, then download disk 2 from here (this link is kicking my butt!!) \http://www.3com.com/products/en_US/detail.jsp?tab=support&pathtype=support&sku=3C509B-COMBO and boot the pc with a dos/winders boot disk - run the PNPDSABL.BAT utility to turn off PnP, then run 3c5x9cfg.exe to set the irq and mem addy you want (i like 10/300 )- after this, you should be good to go" I duly downloaded the disk2, copied it to /tmp on the linux box, started to reboot the linux box with a 95 startup disk, then bottled out and plopped the disk out before it could boot, in a fit of underconfidence at my noncomprehension. The actual history behind the thread at LNO in the first place is here: http://www.linuxnewbie.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=13… Thanks, Jenny

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Re: [Alug] Documentation, network cards and printers
by MJ Ray 25 Jun '01

25 Jun '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > Documentation: Does any one know of a javadoc equivilent for C? Is this "literate programming"? -- MJR

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Weekly IRC meeting reminder
by Adam Bower 25 Jun '01

25 Jun '01

This is the automated ALUG irc meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an irc meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Popular irc clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and ircII on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.bitchx.com http://www.xchat.org http://freshmeat.net http://www.epicsol.org/ (for Brett!) Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Re: [Alug] Problems with Mandrake, silly questions and the result.
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 25 Jun '01

25 Jun '01

John Seago writes: >Having seen how easily his Red Hat went in I installed it in my >computer, the installation was about a 1000% easier than...... Hey! Told ya! Everyone should listen to my wise and knowledgable advice ;-) Your two mails arrived together, John. Go and have a look in the rc.d scripts ( /etc/rc.d/)(I think) to see what happens when the computer is booting up, so if you get a nice red failed message again you can start to see where the problem is. If when booting, the log says "entering runlevel 6" (I think that is the default on Dead Rat) you want to look at rc6.d. This will show you which scripts are started up. >.....buying a hardware >upgrade to make Windows/Office 2000 work. You had a lucky escape then! Jenny.

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Re: [Alug] pppd problem
by MJ Ray 25 Jun '01

25 Jun '01

"A Glover" <Flexifoil(a)btinternet.com> writes: > After over a year away from Linux I decided to install it again, > unfortunatly Ive forgotten how to fix small problems. The current one > and im having no success finding an answer for is disconnecting straight > away with pppd. Distribution is Debian, using the script pon. Add "debug" to /etc/ppp/options and tell us what appears in /var/log/debug please. Thanks. (Remember to take the debug line out when you're done, unless you want to eat disk.) -- MJR

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Stupid question from John Seago
by John Seago 25 Jun '01

25 Jun '01

I have made a start on 'Running Linux', and have got to the passage which entreats beginners NOT to ask simple questions. The problem is whilst I can work the word processor etc., in windows, I don't know how to do much else, so I'm ignoring the sound advice and asking stupid questions, I have no doubt that there will be others. Having, by a combination of a faulty CD, a CD drive which didn't like the first disk of Mandrake 8 had to reinstall Mandrake 8 I have in the long list of script which scrolls down at the beginning 1 item marked [FAILED] in red. The item refers to the Kernel libraries, my question is: Is this Failed notice appearing because I didn't use the second disk, if so how do I put the contents of the second disk in please? John Seago

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