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Weekly IRC meeting reminder
by Adam Bower 18 Jun '01

18 Jun '01

This is the automated ALUG irc meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an irc meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Popular irc clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and ircII on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.bitchx.com http://www.xchat.org http://freshmeat.net http://www.epicsol.org/ (for Brett!) Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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BBC web browser
by Mills 17 Jun '01

17 Jun '01

Steve Fosdick wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 16, 2001 at 12:51:58PM -0400, Ashley T . Howes wrote: > > > I just looked at these. In June 2001 3.3% of visitors were using a > > BBC Micro > > That is interesting. I wonder what kind of web browser you could > write to run in a machine with 32K RAM. Of course, if you made the Later BBCs had more RAM. > browser a "language ROM" you get an additional 16K for your code, and > can use the RAM that frees up for data. > > So, does anyone know of a web browser for the BBC Micro? I am writing a web browser for the QL in SuperBasic (and now in C, using curses). However the project started out on an Acorn RiscPC in BBC Basic, this should work on a BBC given some alteration. A TCP/IP stack (and code to work with it) would be needed and I know of several 8 bit computers with them, so it could be done. Yours Tarquin Mills

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Re: [Alug] Usage Stats for anglian.lug.org.uk
by MJ Ray 16 Jun '01

16 Jun '01

Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> writes: > The other possibility, of course, is that someone has a browser that > lets the user configure the agent header (doesn't opera let you do > that?), or a proxy server that can be made to falsify it. It's wwwoffle falsifying the user-agent to flag up sites which are trying to check the user-agent header and return different versions of a site to me. They almost all look at "BBC Micro" and go "MUH?". It's the same reason my default browser background is lime green: to spot bad web site coding. > The other interesting thing is that this is a Linux related web site > and most of the browsers appear to be MS IE on Windows! Yes, I noticed that. I guess we need more content which is aimed at a) illustrating the benefits of Linux for people running buggy non-free systems; and b) getting Linux ppp working easily. Any volunteers? Articles should first be emailed to alug-announce at stu.uea.ac.uk to test them out and get the rough edges knocked off. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] basic routing/config NO-prob for mail
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 15 Jun '01

15 Jun '01

>Nor was I, it has taken many years to build up the little knowledge >that I have. I my self have asked lots of stupid questions and also >admitted to being wrong (publically on list). I have been where you sit >now but with people just saying RTFM, and as such have sat and read >"Computer Networks" and also "TCP/IP Network Admin", I was about to >make a comment about this book then realised that I have your copy on >my desk at home. Just a quick further on one this as I'm sure the list are rolling their eyes - sorry, got home last night and thought what a pillock i must have sounded spouting all that out. Glad you took it in the slightly humorous vein it was intended in, David. I hope it didn't sound as though i take it for granted i have some kind of right to your knowledge - I am actually humbled by your patience and extremely grateful. Perhaps the idea of the newbie mailing list isn't such a bad idea, although one wonders when a question stops being a newbie one and becomes a non-newbie one.......? Can't wait to get my hands on the TCP/IP book. >I didn't realize you were 37 btw. Age is relative (until your body falls apart I guess), however I have heard that you learn something like 75% of everything you are ever going to learn by the age of 5. If you haven't learnt language by then you can never form the correct patterns, as well. >Also as for cookery, have you noticed its very similair to computing, I compared learning linux to baking a cake for the first time with no recipe book and no idea what any of the little ingredient packets are the other day. >PS you don't fancy getting IP firewalling working on my box on sunday, I'm stuck. The very thought of being let loose on any one else's computer makes me shudder with terror. >I will be bringing a converter in the form of a hub with BNC on the back. Thanks. I may have talked two people on various forums into attending. They have a long way to come though. > Just looking at pine - downloading the files on my linux box now, proudly. >Oh, I'd've suggested Postilion, as I've been using that to good effect recently. I gave up on pine (can explain Sun if u like) and installed mutt instead. Many thanks all. Take me quietly to one side on sunday and have a word in my ear about list protocol if I'm out of order on the gossip front. Jen

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Re: [Alug] basic routing/config NO-prob for mail
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 15 Jun '01

15 Jun '01

> Main cause of problem was ignorance about how WINS and DNS work, > probably. <fx action=" clenches fists and repeats "I will say nothing, I'll say nothing"> Sorry :o) Something to do with the same way some of us aren't born with silver spoons, I unfortunately wasn't born with the knowledge of TCP/IP protocols and software oozing from my pores. ;) Seriously david - you must stop dissing me for asking about things I'm ignorant of. I was computer illiterate until three years ago, am now 37 and way past my best learning prime, didn't have such a beast as a computer in school (no, we had to do cookery and sewing), and think I'm piecing stuff together not too badly considering. If you don't feel you want to answer my questions, I don't expect that, but believe me, i spend a lot more time looking around for information on the net and in books than i do asking alug questions. If i have completely ground to a halt or feel a pointer in the right direction will help, then i'll ask - isn't that what a user group is for? OK, there could be a few hundred books out there that will supply me with the same information but m,y time and financial resources are extremely limited. The very fact I didn't know that what was with the wins and dns stuff is what stopped me going to look it up in the first place (if you follow). I tried, I floundered, I asked, the penny dropped, I tried some more and i succeeded. (New latin motto...?) Jen.

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Re: [Alug] basic routing/config NO-prob for mail
by MJ Ray 15 Jun '01

15 Jun '01

Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com writes: > Perhaps the idea of the newbie mailing list isn't such a bad idea, although > one wonders when a question stops being a newbie one and becomes a > non-newbie one.......? Oh, I think while we're quite tolerant here, it'll all work nicely. It's easier for non-newbies to help newbies than newbies to help newbies, if that makes any sense. The intolerant or just plain overwhelmed can join alug-announce now. Anyone else want to write items for that (unedited) "newsletter"? I'll copy any articles which appear on the web site to it. > I compared learning linux to baking a cake for the first time with no > recipe book and no idea what any of the little ingredient packets are the > other day. awww ;-( And I thought the ingredients lists were enough... > >Oh, I'd've suggested Postilion, as I've been using that to good effect > I gave up on pine (can explain Sun if u like) and installed mutt instead. > Many thanks all. Take me quietly to one side on sunday and have a word in > my ear about list protocol if I'm out of order on the gossip front. Nah, just keep it clear on who's speaking where, unless it's you. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] basic routing/config NO-prob for mail
by MJ Ray 15 Jun '01

15 Jun '01

Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com writes: > Just looking at pine - downloading the files on my linux box now, proudly. Oh, I'd've suggested Postilion, as I've been using that to good effect recently. > Mark - I'm coming on Sunday with probably this debian box and a bit of > co-ax, and maybe also a laptop and a broken pcmcia. Well, a UTP/RJ45/whatever the new sort are called today would be more use, unless someone has a converter. I can't allow non-UEA machines directly onto the university network. I can only connect them via the firewall machine. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] basic routing/config NO-prob for mail
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 14 Jun '01

14 Jun '01

Main cause of problem was ignorance about how WINS and DNS work, probably. Did a crash course yesterday. I'll try and do a write-up. Still got to finish the one on networking. It's hard to explain sometimes. >Now for an encore how about a kernel recompile.[1] Oh, *that*! I did that at lunchtime. Just looking at pine - downloading the files on my linux box now, proudly. Mark - I'm coming on Sunday with probably this debian box and a bit of co-ax, and maybe also a laptop and a broken pcmcia. Cheers, Jen.

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Re: [Alug] basic routing/config NO-prob for mail
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 14 Jun '01

14 Jun '01

Everyone! Today I have acheived getting Samba running AND getting the networking on the linux sorted, so I am currently beaming at TRX850 shares on the windows network neighbourhood browser, and lynx www.alug.org.uk on the linux box. Thanks for all the help on this. Can't believe it! Wooohoooo! I still can't send mail or receive. Is there a mail client other than balsa that i can run from cli? I think the fact we use Lotus notes for our domain mail isn't so good. Jenny.

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NEWS round up - Important news for any one who cares.
by David Freeman 13 Jun '01

13 Jun '01

As many of you who read Slashdot will know, corporations and, under the command of corporations, Governments, are trying there best to stiffle freedom. And the latest internatinal treaty could make things even worse. RMS sums up the details at http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/hague.html Couple this with the international cybercrime treaty. And also the RIP and private security industry act, we are in trouble. In a single ray of hope, the EU is investigating the pricing and regional encoding of DVD's, The australian government has also begun an investigation into DVD region encoding and New Zealand has made it illegal. Thats the news for this week. ---- Now for something completely different. Fun sites to view The support group for people used by microsoft http://i-want-a-website.com/about-microsoft/ And even more bazaar http://i-want-a-website.com/about-linux/ Thanks D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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humph [that was traceroute DNS thread]
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 13 Jun '01

13 Jun '01

That's put paid to that flurry of activity; one of our routers has just been replaced and now i can't ping/telnet or traceroute outside the network from win or linbox. (!N). Funny how the web and external email are still working. Outside my jurisdiction though. Thanks for help, though - pennies are slowly dropping. Ta for the info on the packages thing, as well, Mark. Jenny

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Re: [Alug] online services in Norwich question
by MJ Ray 13 Jun '01

13 Jun '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > Mark, which country do you live in? We didn't elect a new governement > last weeek, the cooperations did, so what if BT is a monopoly, so what > if microsoft is a monopoly, they are spending lots of money and I can't > afford to piss them off. No matter what under the current system we are > screwed. If they were all cooperatives, things would probably be a lot better around here. Anyway, BT is a monopoly and Microsoft wants to be one. Both should be slapped back by government at every opportunity and made to behave legally. These days, we have to look to the EU to enforce these laws, which is a great shame, while our own government cheerfully helps to launch "Office xp" and screw more money out of UK business for a US corporation. See the stuff about the UK Government Gateway on uk.comp.os.linux for more of this sort of thing. It's probably off-topic here now. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] basic routing/config prob for mail
by MJ Ray 13 Jun '01

13 Jun '01

Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com writes: > >Install the "dnsutils" package. > Gorgeous, thanks There's a bit on debian's web site http://www.uk.debian.org/ which will find out which package a given file is in. Or you can use "dpkg -S filename" on a system which has it installed, but that can be a catch 22... > DNS is disabled, WINS server is enabled, above address. Do I have to > handle this differently? I'm not sure, but you probably need to give it a working DNS. Maybe nameserver 139.222.1.5 is visible from outside UEA still? Or try your ISP's settings. Or get a local DNS. ;-) -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] basic routing/config prob for mail
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 13 Jun '01

13 Jun '01

>Install the "dnsutils" package. Gorgeous, thanks >if you get the reply >www.alug.org.uk A 209.61.182.158 No, I get "a record cannot be found" >then your DNS resolver is working, if not you will have to look at why >name resolution is broke. (oh yeah this will only work if your lan can see >the internet) DNS is disabled, WINS server is enabled, above address. Do I have to handle this differently? Lan can indeed see internet Thanks for the help, all - perhaps I can show gratitude in the form of McVities Choc Digestives on Sun.

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Re: [Alug] basic routing/config prob for mail
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 13 Jun '01

13 Jun '01

>try nslookup (host is a newer program being phased in in some distro's, >nslookup is the old one)... No, not this either. This is the debian distro Adam gave me: 2.2 r2. Any other suggestions? Thanks, Jen

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Re: [Alug] basic routing/config prob for mail
by MJ Ray 13 Jun '01

13 Jun '01

Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com writes: > "host: command not found" Can't find a file named host on box (debian). Install the "dnsutils" package. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] basic routing/config prob for mail
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 13 Jun '01

13 Jun '01

Thanks Adam - >with /usr/sbin/traceroute insert name or IP no here e.g. >/usr/sbin/traceroute 209.61.182.158 This seems to find it ok. >in /etc/resolv.conf you will want domain toby-churchill.com >nameserver 192.168.10.10 Yup. >then try typing :- >host www.alug.org.uk "host: command not found" Can't find a file named host on box (debian). Jen

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basic routing/config prob for mail
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 13 Jun '01

13 Jun '01

Hi list, - get your groans ready. Quick Qs on routing: Linux box address 192.168.11.106 is on intranet 192.168.11.0 Router box address 192.168.11.100 forwards packets to router box 192.168.10.100 These are routed to server 192.168.10.10 These are then sent to the outside world. My present routing table for linux box is 192.168.11.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 0.0.0.0 192.168.11.100 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0 I sent a mail to myself at this win computer's address (Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com IP 192.168.11.102) as a test but I assumed as i haven't got resolv.conf (is it?) setup it would send this packet to the outside world then it would come back in. Balsa set up a mail client using localhost as SMTP server, and gave me the address root@TRX850 (where TRX850 = linuxbox name) . I think if the sent mail was going to arrive it would have by now, so failure means a couple of Q's: 1.How can I trace the packet that i sent from the linux box to see if it went anywhere? 2.What do i need to configure on the linux box to correct the non-routing event? resolv.conf is empty as yet - adding either "nameserver 192.168.10.10" and "Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com 192.168.11.102" doesn't cause stuff to arrive. 3.Surely the address @TRX850 needs to have the domain name toby-churchill.com, same as the network here? I mean, it's a GREAT address, but have I boobed? Thanks! Jen of the Questions.

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Administrivia
by MJ Ray 13 Jun '01

13 Jun '01

Whoever emails us via "citlink.net" has got the hahaha@sexyfun thing on their computer. Please disinfect yourself and consider being more careful in future ;-) -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] online services in Norwich question
by MJ Ray 13 Jun '01

13 Jun '01

Joss Winn <joss(a)josswinn.org> writes: > The University accomodation doesn't look that attractive after living in > my own house for the last few years, although I don't mind the sound of > some of the networked rooms available. However it is unlikely I will be > offered one. I've been told all campus rooms will be networked by Christmas at a university committee meeting yesterday. I'll leave it to others to remark about when they originally planned to have it done by. ;-) > Assuming I will look for shared accomodation or a studio flat, can > anybody tell me about the availability of cable or DSL in the area? ADSL is supposed to arrive early next year, first to Norwich City exchange, then to Norwich West a couple of weeks later, so I think that means almost all student accommodation will be covered. Clearly BT aren't quite as stupid as I give them credit for. > If anyone has _any_ advice at all regarding accomodation and computing > for a post-grad student, I'd be very grateful. Oh, beware. Many departments at the university are still what I consider "Linux-hostile". Very few (eg MTH) are Linux-friendly and most are neutral. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] online services in Norwich question
by MJ Ray 13 Jun '01

13 Jun '01

Neil Sedger <n.sedger(a)bigfoot.com> writes: > Really? Where'd you get that gem of info from? I've been squeezing > BT's 'no idea sir' telestaff about every 2 months for the last > year... It's on their web site somewhere. I got the URL from uk.local.east-anglia originally, I think. > Although I then spoke to BTOpenworld, the ISP that uses ADSL. *One* ISP. Personally, I'd avoid them. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] online services in Norwich question
by MJ Ray 13 Jun '01

13 Jun '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > BT has the technologie and ability to role out ADSL to everyone, except > it costs so much to do. OFTEL wont let us loss lead the excersise to > allow us to get lots of penetration into the market. [...] I don't think you should use "us" here. You are not allowed to speak on the behemoth's behalf. My opinion is that BT is solely interested in screwing as much money as possible out of the current technologies (eg ISDN) before having to discount them when they introduce the superior DSL systems. If BT had our interests at heart, they would be planning to do residential DSL through the normal connectors, which I think is now possible, and wouldn't require the engineer to come and rip holes in my wall again. > Find a place with an always on connection (i.e. UEA) and then put a > 802.11b base station with highpower antenna up on the roof, directed at [...] What prices are wireless networking equipment now? Is it getting to the point where sharing a single higher speed connection among a street is an economic reality? How would the service provider view this? Shouldn't we just network ourselves anyway and sod the telcos? I seem to recall that some American towns have taken this route. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] online services in Norwich question
by MJ Ray 13 Jun '01

13 Jun '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > BT is a corporation and as such has the mission of screwing money from > people, and while people are still gullable enought to be screwed, they > will continue screwing, why else do we get charged so much for things > in this country. [...] Aren't we meant to have regulators to guard against this sort of thing? It's all well and good to say "don't pay for it if it's too expensive", but there is no alternative to BT's monopoly, until wireless becomes viable for general use (and the antennae can be sited on the rooftops instead of by people). -- MJR

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alug-announce digest, Vol 1 #1 - 2 msgs
by alug-announce-admin＠stu.uea.ac.uk 12 Jun '01

12 Jun '01

Send alug-announce mailing list submissions to alug-announce(a)stu.uea.ac.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug-announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to alug-announce-request(a)stu.uea.ac.uk You can reach the person managing the list at alug-announce-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of alug-announce digest..." oMMMoMo Mo MMMMMMMoMo " "o"o"o"o oMMMoMoM oMMMMMM"MMM" " " " " " "o"o "oMMMoMMM " oMo"M"oo MM" " MoMoMMMMMMM oM " " "oMMM " " MoMMMMMoMoMoooo Mo MMM MoMoMMMMMoMMMMM o" MoM " MoMM "MMo"oMoMMMoM"" MM " MMMMo MMMMMoMMMMMM" oM " MoMMM MMMoMMMo"MM Mo" "MMoMo ooMMMMMMMoMo" oMo oMoMMM " "oMoMMMoMoMo MoM oMoMMM MMMMMMMMMoMMM "oM oMoMMM "M"M"MMoMMMo" " o "oo " MMMM" MMMMMoMoM o" " "oM " " " "o MMMoMMMo"o M " oM " " MMMMMMMoMo o" "oMoMoooMo" " o " " MMoMMMoMoMo " "o"o MM"""""""oM oM " "MMo oMMMMMoMMMoMo " """ """ " o"MMMMoMMMoMMMo"MMo"o" o o o oo MMMMMMoMMMoMMMoMoMo MMMMM MMMo oMMM MMMo MMoMMM oMoMMMoMMMoMMMoMMMo"o oMMMMM MMMo oMMM "MMo MMM "MM MMMMMMMoMMMMMMMoMMMM" " " MMo"MMo MMMo oMM" MMMo oMM" """ " MoMMMoMMMoMMMo" " " MMMoMMMo MMMo oMM" MMMo oMM"oMoMo " "MMoMMMoMMM " " MMMMMMMo MMMo oMM" MMMo oMM" "MM oMMMoMoMoMMMoMMMoMo" " oMM" "oMM" "MMMMM" "MMMMM" MMMoMM" ooMMMMMMMoMMMMMMMoMMMoMo "M" " " " " " """ """ "oM """oMM" " " "MMoMMMoMMMoMM" " " " " " " " alug-announce : The Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group Today's Topics: 1. ANNOUNCE: ALUG 2001.4 (MJ Ray) 2. Newsletter mailing list (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: alug-announce(a)stu.uea.ac.uk Cc: lwn(a)lwn.net From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> Organization: Cat-killingly bad Date: 12 Jun 2001 16:29:56 +0100 Subject: [ALUG-announce] ANNOUNCE: ALUG 2001.4 Announce: ALUG 2001.4 (End Of The Academic Year!) The next ALUG meeting will be at our UEA Norwich venue as a guest of tsw.org.uk (the student web) on Sunday 17th June 2001 2:00pm - 6:00pm. We hope to hold a demonstration of some wireless networking, security attacks (very likely), a discussion of security measures (almost certain), and a practical exercise on configuring printers (quite likely). Further meeting details at http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/meetings/year2/meeting9.html Venue details at http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/venues/uea.html. If you are coming please email me on (alug at towers.org.uk) with details of any kit you are bringing so we can update the web site. Please mail the list if you have any requests for help or would like a demonstration of anything specific and we will try to accommodate if at all possible. tsw will provide tables, chairs and some networking, while drinks and food vending machines are available. There is no entrance charge to this venue, but refreshment facilities other than the above may be limited. It is anticipated that we will move to a pub after the meeting. -- MJR --__--__-- Message: 2 To: alug-announce(a)stu.uea.ac.uk From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> Organization: Cat-killingly bad Date: 12 Jun 2001 20:04:36 +0100 Subject: [ALUG-announce] Newsletter mailing list If you can see this, it means that the alug-announce mailing list is working. My intention is to publish short newsletters of "the best of ALUG" for people who find 500 messages a week too much to handle. There will at most one issue a day, and usually a lot less. It will be sent to the main alug list too, so you don't need to subscribe to both. (Is this a good idea? I think so...) Once again, I need your help: I need people to write short summaries of popular threads and send them to alug-announce(a)stu.uea.ac.uk for possible inclusion in the next edition. Anything else you want to write should also be sent there, including short articles of general interest. The web site will be updated to reflect the new list tonight. -- MJR --__--__-- _______________________________________________ alug-announce mailing list alug-announce(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug-announce End of alug-announce Digest

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online services in Norwich question
by Joss Winn 12 Jun '01

12 Jun '01

Hello, I will be returning to the UK in six weeks and will begin an MA at UEA in September. I received information about accomodation at the University residences yesterday and am hoping list members in Norwhich can advise me on a couple of things regarding networking and accomodation in the area. The University accomodation doesn't look that attractive after living in my own house for the last few years, although I don't mind the sound of some of the networked rooms available. However it is unlikely I will be offered one. Assuming I will look for shared accomodation or a studio flat, can anybody tell me about the availability of cable or DSL in the area? Am I likely to find it, how much will it cost? It is quite a high priority of mine to be on a 24/7 connection, and would influence my choice of accomodation while in Norwich for the year. I have spent the last three years on a crappy dial-up connection paying way, way too much money for it (over 100 quid a month) and would really like to get the connection I've been dreaming of all this time, once I begin at UEA. If anyone has _any_ advice at all regarding accomodation and computing for a post-grad student, I'd be very grateful. thanks. Looking forward to meeting you all. please cc me if it is not too much trouble. Joss

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