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Re: [Alug] ALUG Librarian stuff
by brodders＠cwcom.net 10 Jun '01

10 Jun '01

Migod! ALUG Library's...come back to life! OK so no-ones ripped a new one in the idea of a peer-peer ALUG Library. That's nice; I assumed we'd go that way so I've quietly been doodling around with the concepts. Have not thought about consequences of wandering people; don't think it's too much of a problem insofar it's generic & will not go away. I'm for doing no more than normal add-person, delete/edit person etc. Um? fine person? New joiners give a sub which they get back when they go LESS losses? Could be expensive. Perhaps a borrowing cap is in order. Another table... NOPE a new attributes of the Person table; default say 4. This might as well be a progress report on what I've done, so here goes. Top level concepts as last reported + thoughts on this issue: Are there any issues if item passed to wrong person. Example: Person A has WonderBook which everyone wants. Person's B,C,D etc. request it. B is at top of list. At the next meet everyone is there except B. Oh dear a ruck forms; A & book disappear from view & when tussle clears D has made off with it. "Well, B had their chance." Is this legal? Don't see why not; B could well miss a meet & it seems fine to me that someone else gets the book. For this to work, everyone must have been issued a key to give A. That may mean another table for the confirmation keys rather then finding a home for <the one key> in say the Transaction table. Alternatively if it's NOT OK to passover B what then? Perhaps C only should be allowed to have the book, not D as decided in the tussle? My instinct is that the more flexible the better; so I'd plump for "issue N confirmation keys & let people decide for themselves". There are more arguments around this area (the confirmation key is now effectively a person ID, so why keep on scrambling it?) but overall I'm happy with this. It's more secure / difficult to defraud this way. Next up, db progress. Postgres is wonderful, BUT as I had everything to hand to get going with MySQL so I made a start using it (also I had another project which used MySQL). Now when I make a start I explore problem areas. This ties in with my design assumptions which are that everything's easy - except for the problems. So I want to know what are the problems & where are they? Once these are conquered I can go back to sleep (=base mode). First up I needed a model environment, so I put together a box networked to a PC. There's the server, here's the client <this included a big diversion fighting various Linux distros; they didn't like the ancient embedded video on the server>. MySQL goes in, fight with that. Many minor mistakes; finally import a test database for the other project; but principles established. Install MyODBC onto the PC; that is a success. Next up how to actually do it? I want a RAD or sumfin'. Access works well via the ODBC, but that's not PC. Hm. StarOffice 5.2! It sort of works and crashes but it's just about usable; snag it it doesn't quite fit MySQL nicely. At this point I was going to make a start putting some default forms together. OK not for the final system; they'll have to be over the web. But these are 1st shot functional screens to get things going; SO5.2 has a GUI editor all drag'n'dropish with predefined stuff (fields, buttons, pull down lists etc) & that's nice esp. when it accesses the remote test MySQL db and I see real data in the fields on my PC. At that point I went on holiday & now it's now. Be Warned I'm not a coder (well not in the last 15 years). Bye Bye for now! Steve

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Librarian stuff
by MJ Ray 09 Jun '01

09 Jun '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > No somebody who has learnt the hardway that you need to design the > code, if nothing else to design the bugs out. I'm not ont for creating > BIG designs etc... just nice highlevel concept diagrams and other > USEFUL things like that. Yeah, pretty pictures. Everyone likes pretty pictures. 'cept me. I'll take a good explanation over a specialised diagram requiring a key almost any time. > How can you say that? I originally posted a relational scheme to the > list and was told tht it was naive and was lacking and some other > scheme were posted, had we designed it correctly we would have the > scheme ok first time round. http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/pipermail/alug/2001-May/001083.html Only Brett seemed to criticise it... > [...] What we must avoid like the plague is making assumptions, any > engineer ot scientist will tell you that an assumption is the mother > of all f*** ups. What am I? A pomegranate? > Good code is code which meets the needs of the application and > doesn't crash. [...] Being written is a prerequisite for these. > Good. For now we need to just assume we have a RDBMS until the point > when we have the design done. Is an RDBMS appropriate, or should we just assume an OO backing store? -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Librarian stuff
by MJ Ray 09 Jun '01

09 Jun '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > [...] We are analysing a system here and we need to maintain an > implementation specific view of things until we get into the design > stage. As I can see things, we skipped the feasibilty stage and also > the analysis and Design stages, and thus we have arrived at the > implementation phase with some major lack of designs. ARRRRRRRRRRGH -- another "big design" fan? Do the phrases "you aren't gonna need it" and "do the simplest thing that could possibly work" mean anything to you? http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ExtremeProgrammingRoadmap I mean, yes, let's design this thing, and the start of this thread is a good starting point, but let's not waste time procrastinating and drawing pretty pictures of the system. Good code is written code, before anything else. > [...] Can we get anything on the alug.org.uk hosts in the way > of either mysql or postgres? I don't know, but I'd expect so, or at least a hostname pointed somewhere that did. -- MJR

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[alt.uu.comp.os.linux.questions] Recommended Linux Reference Books??
by MJ Ray 09 Jun '01

09 Jun '01

Here's a thread from elsewhere about something we discussed... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 21:49:41 GMT From: "X_Factor6" <m.tiesman(a)home.com> Subject: Recommended Linux Reference Books?? Message-ID: <VFST6.30136$Q9.6942135(a)news1.elmhst1.il.home.com> what are some good reference books for Linux?? I already have a couple from O'reilly & Associates. Let me know Thanks. X_Factor6 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 03:04:28 +0200 From: "R.V. Gronoff" <regis.gronoff(a)laposte.net> Subject: Re: Recommended Linux Reference Books?? Message-ID: <9fp951$5af5t$1(a)ID-77205.news.dfncis.de> References: <VFST6.30136$Q9.6942135(a)news1.elmhst1.il.home.com> "Linux Essential Reference", by Raymond Debonne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 08:13:53 GMT From: jayfar(a)netaxs.com (Jayfar) Subject: Re: Recommended Linux Reference Books?? Message-ID: <slrn9i12a0.44s.jayfar(a)access.netaxs.com> References: <VFST6.30136$Q9.6942135(a)news1.elmhst1.il.home.com> I'm looking at a cow-orker's copy of "Linux - The Complete Reference," 4th edition (2001), by Richard Peterson, which includes info on 2.4 kernel. It's from Osborne, ISBN #0-07-212940-9 and weighs in at a hefty 1200+ pages. Jayfar - - Netaxs Network Operations Center ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 08:26:27 -0500 From: David Douthitt <ssrat(a)mailbag.com> Subject: Re: Recommended Linux Reference Books?? Message-ID: <3B20D283.703E5F3D(a)mailbag.com> References: <VFST6.30136$Q9.6942135(a)news1.elmhst1.il.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To me, every UNIX administrator and every UNIX power user should have the following book: * "UNIX in a Nutshell", by Daniel Gilley and the staff of O'Reilly & Assoc. You didn't say what sort of books you wanted: * Technical? * Programming? * Administration? * Introductory? However, I would recommend the "....Unleashed" series - like "Linux Unleashed" and "Red Hat Linux Unleashed." Also likely a good source is "Running Linux" published by O'Reilly. Also, when you go looking at books, don't just look at Linux books, but also at generic UNIX books - stay away from version specific books (like Unixware or Solaris or HP-UX) - they all have their differences. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:22:33 +0100 From: SteveCampbell <the.goonden(a)ntlspamworld.com> Subject: Re: Recommended Linux Reference Books?? Message-ID: <La5U6.19288$YB3.2950923(a)news2-win.server.ntlworld.com> References: <VFST6.30136$Q9.6942135(a)news1.elmhst1.il.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit the best and most relevant docs are on your system ot at www.linuxdoc.org having said that, you are probably like me and much prefer printed stuff you can relax with over a coffee. Just remember that other source of info as it is invaluable. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 16:15:01 -0000 From: rodsmith(a)speaker.rodsbooks.com (Rod Smith) Subject: Re: Recommended Linux Reference Books?? Message-ID: <ti1ug55cl3dn39(a)corp.supernews.com> References: <VFST6.30136$Q9.6942135(a)news1.elmhst1.il.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The field of Linux books is pretty broad. There are tutorial books, reference books, etc.; and these cover Linux generally, Linux networking, Linux programming, etc., as well as sub-sets of these (like books on specific servers). I've got a Web page with suggestions in several categories at http://www.rodsbooks.com/books/. (That page features my own books, so I can't claim to be an unbiased source of information. ;-) Sub-pages include some suggestions on books by others, though.) - - Rod Smith, rodsmith(a)rodsbooks.com http://www.rodsbooks.com Author of books on Linux & multi-OS configuration ------------------------------ End of Digest ************* -- MJR Member of the Anglian Linux User Group, UK Meets every month or so and OPN #alug on Mondays at 2000 UK http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/

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Re: [Alug] Pingful success at last!
by MJ Ray 09 Jun '01

09 Jun '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > Perhaps a more detailed account of what was wrong and how it was fixed > could go on the web so that others who have this problem can get it > fixed. Email it to me. It may motivate me to fix the repository and bring the site up to date. -- MJR

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Pingful success at last!
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 08 Jun '01

08 Jun '01

Let me share my joy with you! After weeks and weeks of trying i have got the linux box at work networked. I'm sitting here with such a grin on my face. First I changed the DLink card for a 3com. Then I struggled with addresses and finally changed the io and irq on the card and matched up the box. Then i fiddled and diddled for ages not seeing what i had done wrong. Then SomeOne Who Knows looked at my box and found out it was using the AUI port rather than the BNC. Then I tried a 3c5x9config utility debian has but got tied in knots. Finally i did the boot-into-dos trick, and ran a 3com config exe file and changed the port. Now it pings, pongs, pangs. Happiness. Joy. Rapture. (sad, sad)

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Librarian stuff
by MJ Ray 07 Jun '01

07 Jun '01

brodders(a)cwcom.net writes: > This is a repost as the original didn't seem to turn up - or if it > did, no - one commented! Not that it didn't appear, just that I don't have enough time. > I don't like this - would you do it? - so I've been kicking around the > idea of allowing casual person-person item passing. These need to be > verified transactions on the database otherwise fraud is simple. The > protocol I suggest below is - good enough?? Comments appreciated. Peer to peer! Trendy. I can't see any obvious problems with the ticketing system, though. > I want to encrypt the lot; ideally the entire database. And the > transactions from server to client must be secure too otherwise login > accounts get compromised. Perhaps we can just find somewhere to run the web site over https connections and use the mailing list passwords? Or somehow else store details for it. Perhaps using encrypted email or something. Is there a security guru in the house? -- MJR

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Freemans Book emporium
by David Freeman 07 Jun '01

07 Jun '01

I can now also get the following Publishers as well. Sybex O'Reilly Harvard University Press MIT WW Norton Yale University Press University Presses of California, Columbia and Princeton Chicago University Press Thanks D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Deadrat Transfers
by David Freeman 07 Jun '01

07 Jun '01

Can any one explain quickly how redhat configures its FTP server. I want to allow a user called ftpuser to ftp in but it wont let me. What do I need to edit? Thanks D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] A Couple of responses in one :
by MJ Ray 07 Jun '01

07 Jun '01

Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> writes: > well.. it's possible to do a network upgrade from a ftp/http/nfs server > if you want to give that a try, either way you will still need to use a > large quantify of bandwidth to get the files from a remote server to > your machine... OK, how? It's bound to be less than 650Mb of compressed packages... Bandwidth isn't a major problem, but wasting CDs and time is. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Using NFS on web-connected machines
by MJ Ray 07 Jun '01

07 Jun '01

"Mark Wilkinson" <mark(a)wiggis.com> writes: > Anyone got any advice/pros/cons on running NFS on machines that are > permanently connected to the net. I may be moving one of our clients to a > load-balancing situation at some point and need to share some directories > out to make this happen. Make sure that the outside world can't access nfs on the machines. Whether you do this with ipchains/iptables or try to use hosts.deny to limit it is up to you. That's the main thing to bear in mind. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Ref Meeting
by MJ Ray 07 Jun '01

07 Jun '01

Danny Thorp <danny(a)thorp.fsworld.co.uk> writes: > Where and what is The Hive? A bar at UEA. Sadly the actual bar bit isn't open at the meeting. Wait for the announcement and all should become clear ;-) -- MJR

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Every Sperm is Sacred: Misc thread mark 2
by David Freeman 07 Jun '01

07 Jun '01

OK first of yes I am listening to Montey pythons CD Montey Python Sings. 0) does anyone out there use LaTeX in anger? Thats LaTeX the typesetting language not LaTeX in anger the band Adam decided it was last night :o) 1) Dates for the BBQ, suggestions are 26/8/01 or 2/9/01, the latter is the day after Jo's birthday and two days after mine. I may be able to get a garden in Ipswich to use, but a better venue would be prefered. Perhaps we could persuade Jen to bring Horace X along to provide Music :o) 2) Contrary to what may seam I do know Coax and have used it. 3) As for the geek test, you guys do know what a geek is don't you? geek: Carnival performer who bites the heads off chickens. perhaps nerd would be more appropriate nerd: Person of above average intelligence with little in the way of socail skills and the art of small talk. 4) Would people like a demo of 802.11b i.e. wireless lan equipment at the next meet? 5) Are there any SQL experts out there who would mind helping me with some college work? 6) NOOO question six The concludes the reading of the rules bruce. oops sorry must stop typing what I am singing :o) Thanks D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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don't panic...
by Neill Newman 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

below is a conversation I just had with a friend.. /some/ people might find this interesting. It certainly fooled me ;).. (btw, this was a production web server!)... Neill > > > > > > Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> on 06/06/2001 16:50:38 > > > > Subject: wrapping uptimes ?? > > > > okies, I've experienced something weird... > > > > just checked my web server, was up for just under 500 days a few weeks > > ago, checked today, uptime = 9 days "oh no I've been hacked" I > > thought... I looked all through the logs, nothing is strange, no > > discontigious log entries (although it seems), no reboot messages in the > > logs.. I realise that this could be the work of a clever hacker, but the > > file modificatin times on /etc/passwd and the like are months old... > > > > it looks as if the machine hasn't been rebooted, but uptime says that it > > was rebooted 9 days ago ?? > > is it possible that I've experienced a magic uptime wrap ?? please tell > > me so, I don't fancy rebuilding this box ;)... > > > > Sz > > > > > Linux messures uptime in hundredth of a second in a 32bit interger. > > 2^32 = 4,294,967,296 > 86,400 seconds in one day = 8,640,000 hundredths of a secon > Therefore, 4,294,967,296 / 8,640,000 = 497.1 days > > You have just encountered the end of the uptime interger!! > > Andi > > p.s. The shell may confused on file dates et cetera -- Open Source Specialists http://www.entora.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0)701 0723686 Fax: +44 (0)870 3214368

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RE: [Alug] Re: A Couple of responses in one :
by Earl Brannigan 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

On 06 June 2001 10:44, Neill Newman [SMTP:neill@entora.co.uk] wrote: > > yes, a friend uses cobalt and he hates them with a passion, are these > the old non intel ones ?? or the newer i386 ones ? Its a 386 Raq4 Actually a good machine in general. I beleive the OS is based on Red-Hat 6.2 from what I can tell. RPM is installed but only for addit stuff. Patches etc must be via the pkg program. I haven't used it directly, there is a page in the admin interface from where you can install via an ftp URL. This is a bit of a pain because I have to run the Admin Interface via SSL which slows things a little. I'll have a mooch around the scripts and see what is actually happening and try to get you some better detail. > > > Actually I fully agree with you. I have an little script which daily checks > > the update site. (though I only have it advising me if there is a change, I > > haven't worked out how to get the updates automatically by script...if > > anyone has played with a cobalt you'll know that there is only one route > > for applying patches. > > I have to admit, I haven't pulled apart a cobalt, from what I can gleam > from their website they are running some form of redhat, is this right > ?? if so it will be very easy to intergrate auto updating into your > scripts, if it dosen't use rpms and you can point me towards the package > management docs I can soon convert any script to do what you want... I'm > in the process of converting the scripts to use the pkg program in > solaris. > > be warned when doing this though, I usually setup a seperate test > machine which the updates get applied to first (and tested!)... don't > just update directly from the update site.. this is considered a bad > thing (tm).... (remember tcp_wrappers!)... > > > If you're a bit of a wiz with scripts though I'd be glad to get some info > > off you. > > sure no probs... let me know what's on ya mind ;) Oh lots.... Will talk some more at the next meet. > > > Cheers > > Earl > > Cheers > Neill > > > -- > Open Source Specialists http://www.entora.co.uk/ > Tel: +44 (0)701 0723686 Fax: +44 (0)870 3214368

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Deadrat name config
by David Freeman 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

Quick question: How do I configure the DNS on a deadrat box? The syntax seams different from what I'm used to. Thanks D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Re: A Couple of responses in one :
by Earl Brannigan 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

> Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:40:45 +0100 > From: Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> > Organization: Entora Ltd > To: "'alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk'" <alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk> > Subject: Re: [Alug] A Couple of responses in one : > > Earl Brannigan wrote: > > > > MJR Wrote : > > > I'd certainly still be interested. It would also be nice to be on the > > > sending end of one of these attacks for a change...! > > > > For a change!?!?!......been on the receiving end then? > > I have. > > Recently had to completely rebuild a webserver because it had been rooted, > > trojaned, backdoored etc. There was no way to undo the mess that had been > > caused. > > I beleieve it was hacked via a bind overflow. > > aarrgghhh how many times.. apply the updates and this is less likely to > happen..(not impossible mind you) > If you want I can do a 10 minute demo at the barbeque on how to make a > machine install updates automatically if it will encourage people to do > this... I currently have 30 or so machines doing automatic updates, and > I have to do about 5 minutes a week to make it work smoothly, all it > took was a little time upfront... > > I'm sure Earl will now verify, doing 5 minutes admin a week is worth it > when compared to a machine rebuild... especially when it is a production > machine.... Argggggggh to you too ! ;o) The Machine in question is a cobalt and unfortunately they're slightly later than most with updates. Actually I fully agree with you. I have an little script which daily checks the update site. (though I only have it advising me if there is a change, I haven't worked out how to get the updates automatically by script...if anyone has played with a cobalt you'll know that there is only one route for applying patches. If you're a bit of a wiz with scripts though I'd be glad to get some info off you. Cheers Earl

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Re: [Alug] A Couple of responses in one :
by MJ Ray 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> writes: > does Debian (apt) check for changes before it upgrades ?? Yes, and it offers you choices including replace, keep and diff. > download the ISO's, insert CD, and select upgrade ;)... there have been Is there any "smarter" way than downloading ISOs? I hate doing that as it ties a machine up for hours by saturating its network connection. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Every Sperm is Sacred: Misc thread mark 2
by Earl Brannigan 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

Hi David >David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> wrote : > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 08:48:03 -0700 (PDT) > From: > Reply-To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: [Alug] Every Sperm is Sacred: Misc thread mark 2 > > OK first of yes I am listening to Montey pythons CD Montey Python > Sings. Enjoy... > > 5) Are there any SQL experts out there who would mind helping me with > some college work? Shoot. Cheers Earl

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Re: [Alug] A Couple of responses in one :
by MJ Ray 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > > That's all well and good, but what do you do when the vendor's > > updates > > break core functionality required by your users? One thing Debian [...] > So true. I have a simple technique. MASSIVE firewall and a > discontinuous network connection. simple it works. I can't get local admins to agree to that, as it involves doing it at the network rack because the machines need to talk 100Mbps to each other. Sad, but true. Maybe after the next hack... -- MJR

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Re: Red hair and black leather: Re: [Alug] Every Sperm is Sacred: Misc thread mark 2
by MJ Ray 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > > > 0) does anyone out there use LaTeX in anger? > How would I get my name to show up in the header? Look at the fancyhdr package. More options than you'll ever want! Suitable for a university thesis! Safe for children! Non-toxic! Sorry, that's from the "Invisible Jim" box again... -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Every Sperm is Sacred: Misc thread mark 2
by MJ Ray 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

In the spirit of the thread, I shall only answer even numbers. David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > 0) does anyone out there use LaTeX in anger? Yes. Often furious. > 2) Contrary to what may seam I do know Coax and have used it. #bdsm > 4) Would people like a demo of 802.11b i.e. wireless lan equipment at > the next meet? Yes. > 6) NOOO question six Yes there is. See other thread. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] ALUG meeting 17 June
by MJ Ray 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > > lpr, lprng, pdq, CUPS, ... ? > er what? [...] > I want to set it up a simply as possible. Many different print systems. We can outline them on the day, but remember "simple" is in the eye of the beholder... -- MJR

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Ref Meeting
by Danny Thorp 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

Where and what is The Hive? -- Best Regards Danny

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Firewall testing
by Adam Bower 05 Jun '01

05 Jun '01

Hi all, I just got around to updating my firewall to use IPtables and was wondering how could I check that I havn't left any big hole in it? I know about online port-scanners but how do I know if they are reliable? (indeed you can ssh to my machine and http from the outside world but the online ones I just tried seemed to ignore this little fact) I short does anyone know a good online portscanner or is anyone willing to run NMAP or nessus against me? Thanks Adam -- This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed Adam

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