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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 04 May '01

04 May '01

"Adrian F. Clark" <alien(a)essex.ac.uk> writes: > What XML does is allow the database developer to define the _content_ > of what will eventually become a web page using application-oriented > tags and without having to worry about the page's appearance. In *theory*, you don't worry about appearance for most of the time in LaTeX. As with HTML, reality bites. > [...] In principle (though I've never seen it done) XML could > produce LaTeX so that we could get typeset output that looks better > than what spews out of Netscape, which is definitely of the same > kind of abysmal quality as Word. Well, you can look at this two ways: firstly, there are LaTeX ways to produce XML and manipulate XML (I think it's xmltex, but that might be wrong); secondly, XML can be rendered to FOP and then to PDFs which aren't bad at all, especially combined with SVG. However, it all smacks of reinventing wheels again, doesn't it? > The advantage XML over (say) keyword-value pairs is that XML allows > the developer to build up a tree-like structure that can be parsed and > processed by a standard piece of software. Indeed, but S-expressions (lispish ones to the rest of you) never really caught on, did they? Once again, the lispers got it right 40 years before everyone else, but have nothing to show for it but the knowledge that they were right 40 years before... > Anyway, Neill is using lyx, not pukka LaTeX -- urghhhh! Eeek, using a non-free library to boot! Burn him at the viva! ;-) -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 04 May '01

04 May '01

jo(a)yee-ha.demon.co.uk writes: > May I point out FastTemplates? It's a PHP class that allows you to > completely separate content from code. Templating systems only fix half the problem. You still end up with your data interface layer smashed into your system logic, and your program code sat in servable files and repeatedly reinterpreted. Yes, you can overcome both of these, but why not start with a framework which has the bits in the right places? To me, PHP is only good for quick little web toys. Flame me now. -- MJR Mr Ray has emigrated to beyond that very very big mountain and is urgently seeking a supplier of asbestos underclothes.

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[Kevin Taylor <kevin.taylor@gmx.co.uk>] UK Organisation for Open Source software in education
by MJ Ray 04 May '01

04 May '01

spam4u Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 13:38:15 +0200 (MEST) From: Kevin Taylor <kevin.taylor(a)gmx.co.uk> Subject: UK Organisation for Open Source software in education The UK OSiE initiative is moving forward, and we are looking for organisations/vendors/schools/etc who are interested in the use of Open Source software in education to add themselves into our lists. Could you maybe forward this message to your LUGs, (if you think it appropriate) so that anyone involved with education knows about what we are up to ...? Interested people should have a browse through our developers site at: http://osie.sourceforge.net/ Thanks, Kevin (Northants LUG and OSiE) -- MJR

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Please Forgive me
by Earl Brannigan 04 May '01

04 May '01

Sorry everyone, just posted and included the entire previous digest. (Well I thought after being 'reprimanded' for the long signature I'd get my own back!!) ;o) Cheers Have a good weekend Earl

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ALUG Library tranche 2
by brodders＠cwcom.net 04 May '01

04 May '01

Ooookay. Thanks all! Many ideas, but 1st port of call has to be a server. Doesn't ALUG have a server connected to UEA's JANET? Isn't that what we'd want? Had a look at http://www.uklinux.net/membership/ Free MySQL / PostgreSQL / PHP /Perl is for account holders calling from a LoCall number (0845 ono). If you dial up via other ISP's you don't get the databases. Well you can for £25 a year. That's for a single account; don't know what uklinux would think of a group of people using 1 account. Looks useful though. Postgres seems to have more approval over MySQL. What's the reason behind this? Also, I hold no Postgres documentation. This will cramp my style as I've no net connection evenings. Anyone got some PostgreSQL books? Have been following up suggestions & stuff on web. Could use koha - could use a nice PHP+MySQL app MyOrgBook (http://www.it-firm.com) These can show solutions / be a source of ideas; personally would like to be creative rather then copy. NFIT! How is Zeus?? I see admin type roles as something to avoid; suspect we can't eliminate completely but do have some thoughts. ASSUMING we trust ALUG people who've been through some security protocol (is this a can of worms I see before me?) then we might assign permissions by context of what they want to do. E.g. current holder of a book has authority to return it or assign it to a requestor. If we gave this some thought might be able to do without the librarian role. See my ravings below. Want to minimise demands at client end (Java?). Who is expert to adjudicate on this? This all seems to nicely fall into the classic client / server duties ...Brett, are you volunteering to do the client / GUI side of things? Dave, need to talk more about this - what's the form for big posts on such stuff? I am peripatetic so don't have web/IRC to hand - days can pass before I get posts. Hm. Anyhow glue technology consensus seems: Postgres - Java / JDBC - Perl ALUGL Schema 0.1 is below - rip it to bits people! Why won't it work? Where is it cumbersome? It's fairly normalised - must it be more? Tricks to speed it up? Security considerations? Too complex? Something missing? [key things to look for - errors and omissions] Dave, I've not attempted to integrate your schema into this version. ALUG Library Schema 0.1 Item Table ================================================== Item_ID Primary key: Auto incrementing numeric Item_Type 1=book, 2=mass media, 3=hardware, 4=hat etc Title char 128 (name of item) ISBN 16 char (??) Publisher 128 char (manufacturer) Author 128 char (model) Edition 6 char Published date YYYY-MM (bought date) Return Mode 1=back to ALUG, 2=wanders, 3=back to owner Last Transaction => pointer to Tx Table.Tx_ID <Danger Will Robinson> Owned By => pointer to Person Table.Person.ID Description 8096 char or note field Condition Last Seen 1=new, 2=good, 3=poor, 4=scrap/discard Last Seen datestamp Entry Created datestamp Entry Updated datestamp Thus we can loan hats - or anything. They can return to ALUG always, the owner - or just wander about, person to person- more convenient that way. <Danger> Last Tx - not normal form & redundant but handy. Alas it turns a mostly read-only table into a read/write - I think it has to go, to minimise locks and write problems. Person Table ================================================== Person_ID Primary key: Auto incrementing numeric First Name 32 char Last Name 128 char Alias 32 char (alternative name) Password hmm. How to get this secure? How much security needed? Aka => pointer to Person Table.Person_ID (1st (last) entry is ZERO) Phone 16 char Email 32 char Entry Created datestamp (DO we need address info??) Aka is about name changes etc. using a linked list; old name is still on system. Deleting old names dangles inbound pointers. Tx Table i.e. Transaction Table =================================================== Tx_ID Primary key: Auto incrementing numeric Item_ID => pointer to Item Table.Item_ID Now With => pointer to Person Table.Person_ID Due Back YYYY-MM-DD Tx_Type 1=added to system, 2=borrowing, 3=discarded, 4=stocktake, 5=lost, 6=returned, 7=request Tx_Date datestamp Every transaction gets an entry. Due Back might be auto-set or agreed on the spot - even blank for long-term loan. Forms Needed ================================================== 1.1 Add Item 1.2 Edit Item 2.1 Add Person 2.2 Edit Person 3. New Transaction (loan, return, request, stocktake) With a little thought, we may be able to do without much admin. eg: (current borrower | owner ) has permission to create a Return or Loan. Anyone can Add Item. Owner only can Edit Item. Anyone can Add Person. Person only can Edit Person or Add Person as an Aka. Anyone can create a request. Need a proper state diagram showing permissions at each point; need to inspect this to see if any state gets painted into a corner. Queries ========================================== Where is Item? (= search for item) => links to Request & Loan Item transaction When does Item return? => links to Request Item transaction What has Person borrowed What has Person loaned out List all out List all in List all Items due back in next X days List overdues List Tx history Item, latest at top (could double as the search form) List Tx history Person (could double as the borrowings form) Auto-email for overdues & Person-has-requested-item-you-hold would be nice. ALUG would be created as a Person. Quick! Save it before it gets away! -Steve

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Re: ALUG Library
by Earl Brannigan 04 May '01

04 May '01

Hi all Time for a two-penneth, Postgres is great, use it in a commercial env works excellent. But for small functional goodie could be a bit of an overkill...? For knocking up quick web-content I have foudn Zope (www.zope.org) to be nothing short of Brilliant. Can speak to DB, execute perl, python other CGI, has user based security model, runs staight out of the box. gotta say I love it....... Regards Earl (Released under the Zope Public Liscence - bit like LGPL as far as I can tell.....but it is free as in beer if not as in speech anyway..) Cheers Earl On 03 May 2001 17:37, alug-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk [SMTP:alug-admin@stu.uea.ac.uk] wrote: > > Send alug mailing list submissions to > alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit > http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > alug-request(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > You can reach the person managing the list at > alug-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of alug digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: ALUG Library ... (Andrew Savory) > 2. Re: ALUG Library ... (Andrew Savory) > 3. Re: ALUG Library ... (Neill Newman) > 4. Re: ALUG Library ... (Neill Newman) > 5. Re: ALUG Library ... (Neill Newman) > 6. Re: IP Traffic monitoring (Andrew Chandler) > 7. Re: ALUG Library ... (MJ Ray) > 8. Re: self intro (MJ Ray) > 9. Re: ALUG Library ... (David Freeman) > 10. Re: ALUG Library ... (David Freeman) > 11. one thread, three holy wars was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... (David Freeman) > 12. Language wars // was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... (MJ Ray) > 13. Re: one thread, three holy wars was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... (Mark Wilkinson) > 14. Re: ALUG Library ... (MJ Ray) > 15. Re: one thread, three holy wars was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... (David Freeman) > 16. Re: ALUG Library ... (David Freeman) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 10:07:59 +0100 > From: Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > Reply-To: Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> > > On Wed, 02 May, 2001 at 21:51 +0100, Brett Parker wrote: > > > Agghhhhh! Not the omnipotent, and very nasty hack that is MySQL ;) Can I > > suggest that after "learning" from MySQL you try a real database system > > that actually works such as PostgreSQL. > > > *sigh* I really hate it when I have to say this.... > > I agree with Brett. He has a good point. > > If we want to showcase the best of free software and what linux can do, > let's use Postgres eh? Postgres is a true ACID relational database, > stable, secure, full-featured and with extensive support for SQL92. MySQL, > um, isn't. > > Thoughts on what language to implement this in... Perl + DBI is nice and > quick, Java is a little much for the initial site but might be a nice > project for someone to add later. Ruby is always being mentioned to me but > I have no idea if it has DBI-like features or not. Then there's the evils > of the world such as PHP, Embperl, ASP.... can we steer clear of these? > > Anyway, enough with the random thoughts. Happy to help or advise if anyone > wants. > > > Andrew. > > -- > All views are my own, who else would want them? > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 10:11:04 +0100 > From: Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> > To: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> > Cc: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > Reply-To: Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> > > On Wed, 02 May, 2001 at 15:24 -0700, David Freeman wrote: > > > XML != nice. HTML does the job fine. > > Depends what you're doing. HTML is wonderful as the final dressing before > it hits the user's web browser, but sucks for anything other than > that. Being obsessive linux hackers, I'd expect us to massively > overengineer a solution using XML and a publishing engine (AxKit if we're > using Apache/Perl, Cocoon if we're using Java?) so that we can access the > site using our browsers, phones, PDAs, sonic screwdrivers, divining > rods... > > > Andrew. > > -- > All views are my own, who else would want them? > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 10:18:59 +0100 > From: Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> > Organization: Entora Ltd > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > > Andrew Savory wrote: > > > > On Wed, 02 May, 2001 at 21:51 +0100, Brett Parker wrote: > > > > > Agghhhhh! Not the omnipotent, and very nasty hack that is MySQL ;) Can I > > > suggest that after "learning" from MySQL you try a real database system > > > that actually works such as PostgreSQL. > > > > *sigh* I really hate it when I have to say this.... > > > > I agree with Brett. He has a good point. > > > > If we want to showcase the best of free software and what linux can do, > > let's use Postgres eh? Postgres is a true ACID relational database, > > stable, secure, full-featured and with extensive support for SQL92. MySQL, > > um, isn't. > > yep, and until recently MySQL didn't have transaction support !!! hhmm > nice and resilient ;).. > Postgress gets my vote... > > > > > Thoughts on what language to implement this in... Perl + DBI is nice and > > quick, Java is a little much for the initial site but might be a nice > > project for someone to add later. Ruby is always being mentioned to me but > > I have no idea if it has DBI-like features or not. Then there's the evils > > of the world such as PHP, Embperl, ASP.... can we steer clear of these? > > Perl/DBI sounds good to me.... > although I have to admit that I like php ;)... > > Sz > > > > -- > Open source solutions at http://www.entora.co.uk/ > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 10:11:05 +0100 > From: Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> > Organization: Entora Ltd > To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > CC: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > > David Freeman wrote: > > > > > > > OK - it could be done as a java server process on the webserver/some > > > server somewhere, that way we could have a java client or a web > > > client...the java server could spit/recieve XML and all could be well > > > in > > > the world... > > > > XML != nice. HTML does the job fine. > > > hhmmm at the point of starting a flame I'd like to say that xml is very > good at what it does, removes content from markup, html is contant and > markup munged together, not nice!! > html is ok for small/medium sites, but any decent large scale dynamic > stuff is all xml with xslt->html translators, believe me, xml is worth > the effort... > > > > > > me, sick, never (Oh, did I mention that I've done that sorta stuff > > > before, perl talking to java is "fun", nearly as fun as java talking > > > to > > > CGIs). > > > > /me = C and Java apprentice programmer and obeyer of the KISS principle > > /me = C, Java, UML, OO, C++, Perl, PHP hacker.. I was taught OO by a > Grady Booch Phd student ;) so if you need a hand with the > design/implementation then give me a shout, > (I've been programming in Java, both commercially and academically, > since 1995 ;)... > > > > > Thanks > > > > D > > > > PS one of these days I will learn a proper language AKA Lisp and write > > some decent type programs. > > aarrgghhhh no, lisp is evil ;).. > *duck* > > Sz > > > -- > Open source solutions at http://www.entora.co.uk/ > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 10:14:00 +0100 > From: Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> > Organization: Entora Ltd > To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > CC: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > > David Freeman wrote: > > > > > > Exactly, If we make the system well it should work on any browser, even > > IE :o) > > > make sure you run any web pages through the w3 validator > (http://validator.w3.org/) > it is very very very usefull ;) > > Sz > > > > -- > Open source solutions at http://www.entora.co.uk/ > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 11:37:20 +0100 > From: Andrew.Chandler(a)ft.com (Andrew Chandler) > Subject: Re: [Alug] IP Traffic monitoring > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > It's a pity you haven't access to the Cisco (I assme the router is Cisco?) > There's a nice command called "ip accounting". It will give you a table > of IP addresses and how much traffic they have sent. > > I occasionally use this with an Expect script to drag back a set of > network stats on a particular router. > > There are a number of non-intrusive methods too. We have some network > probes that tap into the leased line and monitor it externally. A more > expensive way of doing it though! > > Oh well just my 2 pence.... > > Andi > > > > > > > > > > "Mark Wilkinson" <mark(a)wiggis.com> on 02/05/2001 17:44:09 > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > cc: (bcc: Andrew Chandler/PSD/LONDON/FTI) > > Subject: Re: [Alug] IP Traffic monitoring > > > Hmm. That's where I was heading. The extract of the numbers is trivial and > would give me 99% of their traffic. > > I'll try to knock something up in Perl that whacks the data into a MySQL > database directly. Could be an interesting project. > > Cheers. > > M. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raphael Mankin" <raph(a)panache.demon.co.uk> > To: "Mark Wilkinson" <mark(a)wiggis.com> > Cc: "alug" <alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk> > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:26 PM > Subject: RE: [Alug] IP Traffic monitoring > > > It's in the Apache access log. Everything that is sent and how big it is. > > Not perfect; it does not include the overhead of setting up connections, but > it is a start. > > > On 02-May-01 Mark Wilkinson wrote: > > Hi everyone. > > > > We are about to put a website online for an important customer but we want > > to monitor the bandwidth usage on a monthly basis and bill them > > accordingly. > > > > Has anyone any ideas on how to do IP Traffic monitoring? We don't have > > access to the stats on our primary router (basically our upstream won't > > give > > us the data for some reason) so I just wanted to put some kind of packet > > counter in.. > > > > Any ideas or package recommendations? I've looked at sourceforge but am > not > > sure of the products I'm finding there. I want a standalone product that > > doesn't look like a beast to install and dumps the data in a nice format > > for > > sticking into a database. > > > > Cheers. > > > > Mark W. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! > > ---------------------------------- > ... all the fallacious exactitude that > characterises a statistical table. > - Eric Partridge > E-Mail: Raphael Mankin <raph(a)panache.demon.co.uk> > Date: 02-May-01 > Time: 17:25:52 > ---------------------------------- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! > > > > > > ********************************************************************* > * Please visit the web site of the Financial Times at: * > * http://www.ft.com * > * * > * For UK personal finance, please visit http://www.ftyourmoney.com * > * * > * This E-Mail is intended for the use of the addressee only and may * > * contain confidential information. If you are not the intended * > * recipient, you are hereby notified that any use or dissemination * > * of this communication is strictly prohibited. * > * If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us * > * immediately then delete this E-Mail. > * * > * * > * postmaster(a)ft.com * > ********************************************************************* > > > > ********************************************************************* > * Please visit the web site of the Financial Times at: * > * http://www.ft.com * > * * > * For UK personal finance, please visit http://www.ftyourmoney.com * > * * > * This E-Mail is intended for the use of the addressee only and may * > * contain confidential information. If you are not the intended * > * recipient, you are hereby notified that any use or dissemination * > * of this communication is strictly prohibited. * > * If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us * > * immediately then delete this E-Mail. * * > * * > * postmaster(a)ft.com * > ********************************************************************* > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 7 > To: Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> > Cc: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> > Organization: Cat-killingly bad > Date: 03 May 2001 11:40:21 +0100 > > Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> writes: > > > Thoughts on what language to implement this in... Perl + DBI is nice and > > quick, > > Calling Perl nice is not something I can bring myself to do any more. > OK, it's possible to do some really well-crafted software in it, but > it's possible to create some monstrosities too and more people do the > latter. > > > [...] Ruby is always being mentioned to me but > > I have no idea if it has DBI-like features or not. > > That'll be me, then. With Ruby, it's not quite so critical, as you > just tweak your database object class. Even Perl's DBI isn't a > perfect solution, because the SQLs don't seem to quite be the same. > > > [...] Then there's the evils of the world such as PHP, Embperl, > > ASP.... can we steer clear of these? > > Please! While I can't call Perl nice, I won't program in PHP any more > beyond simple tasks because of the mental anguish it causes. > > -- > MJR > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 8 > To: Joss Winn <joss(a)josswinn.org> > Cc: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Alug] self intro > From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> > Organization: Cat-killingly bad > Date: 03 May 2001 11:35:00 +0100 > > Joss Winn <joss(a)josswinn.org> writes: > > > Well, before the list admin finds a new member of the list who lives > > in Japan [...] > > Oh, I don't think we'd notice another member from Japan that easily. > Tats, are you still out there? > > -- > MJR > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:02:08 -0700 (PDT) > From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> > Reply-To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > > --- Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> wrote: > > David Freeman wrote: > > > > OK - it could be done as a java server process on the > > webserver/some > > > > server somewhere, that way we could have a java client or a web > > > > client...the java server could spit/recieve XML and all could be > > well > > > > in > > > > the world... > > > > > > XML != nice. HTML does the job fine. > > > > hhmmm at the point of starting a flame I'd like to say that xml is > > very > > good at what it does, removes content from markup, html is contant > > and > > markup munged together, not nice!! > > html is ok for small/medium sites, but any decent large scale dynamic > > stuff is all xml with xslt->html translators, believe me, xml is > > worth > > the effort... > > XML has always appeared as a very complex thing which I haven't needed > to use for my very simple web site! Can any one recommend a good primer > for XML. > > > > > > > > me, sick, never (Oh, did I mention that I've done that sorta > > stuff > > > > before, perl talking to java is "fun", nearly as fun as java > > talking > > > > to > > > > CGIs). > > > > > > /me = C and Java apprentice programmer and obeyer of the KISS > > principle > > > > /me = C, Java, UML, OO, C++, Perl, PHP hacker.. I was taught OO by a > > Grady Booch Phd student ;) so if you need a hand with the > > design/implementation then give me a shout, > > (I've been programming in Java, both commercially and academically, > > since 1995 ;)... > > /me = self tought with far to many habits > > But I've just written my first kernel MODULE!!! and it work, which was > a big surprise > > > > Thanks > > > D > > > PS one of these days I will learn a proper language AKA Lisp and > > write > > > some decent type programs. > > > > aarrgghhhh no, lisp is evil ;).. > > *duck* > > Yes, it may be evil, but the darker side is very appealing. Just like > small talk seams appeally. A OO language where everything is an object, > it just makes sense, the way the world works is to pass messages > (instructions, sentences etc...) between objects (humans, animals, > objects etc...) > > ONe language I don't want to learn is C++. > > I like the quotes on the smalltalk website > > "I invented the term Object-Oriented, and I can tell you I did not have > C++ in mind." > - Alan Kay > > and my personally favourites > > "C++ : an octopus made by nailing extra legs onto a dog" > - unknown > > "Claiming Java is easier than C++ is like saying that K2 is shorter > than Everest." > - Larry O'Brien (editor, Software Development) > > I Am amazed that there is such a holy war about programming languages, > particully the language people first learnt was there favourite and all > others are programmed as if they were using the first language. > > Thanks > > D > > > Sz > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 10 > Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:04:41 -0700 (PDT) > From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> > Reply-To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > > --- Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> wrote: > > On Wed, 02 May, 2001 at 15:24 -0700, David Freeman wrote: > > > > > XML != nice. HTML does the job fine. > > > > Depends what you're doing. HTML is wonderful as the final dressing > > before > > it hits the user's web browser, but sucks for anything other than > > that. Being obsessive linux hackers, I'd expect us to massively > > overengineer a solution using XML and a publishing engine (AxKit if > > we're > > using Apache/Perl, Cocoon if we're using Java?) so that we can access > > the > > site using our browsers, phones, PDAs, sonic screwdrivers, divining > > rods... > > ESR said that you can't call your self a hacker till other hackers call > you one, based on the above can I call my self a Hacker yet? > > So this would be what owen was saying about PHP on sunday about content > and markup being mixed together, Whilst I can see some of these evils, > doesn't CSS attempt to help? > > Thanks > > D > > > Andrew. > > > > -- > > All views are my own, who else would want them? > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:08:38 -0700 (PDT) > From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> > Reply-To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > Subject: one thread, three holy wars was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > > --- Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> wrote: > > Andrew Savory wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, 02 May, 2001 at 21:51 +0100, Brett Parker wrote: > > > > > > > Agghhhhh! Not the omnipotent, and very nasty hack that is MySQL > > ;) Can I > > > > suggest that after "learning" from MySQL you try a real database > > system > > > > that actually works such as PostgreSQL. > > > > > > *sigh* I really hate it when I have to say this.... > > > > > > I agree with Brett. He has a good point. > > > > > > If we want to showcase the best of free software and what linux can > > do, > > > let's use Postgres eh? Postgres is a true ACID relational database, > > > stable, secure, full-featured and with extensive support for SQL92. > > MySQL, > > > um, isn't. > > > > yep, and until recently MySQL didn't have transaction support !!! > > hhmm > > nice and resilient ;).. > > Postgress gets my vote... > > So we have the holywar about Which language to write it in, now we have > a second holy war over which RDBMS we use, couple this with the > XML/HTML war and wow! > > Can we get Vi vs EMacs in as well? > > > > > > > Thoughts on what language to implement this in... Perl + DBI is > > nice and > > > quick, Java is a little much for the initial site but might be a > > nice > > > project for someone to add later. Ruby is always being mentioned to > > me but > > > I have no idea if it has DBI-like features or not. Then there's the > > evils > > > of the world such as PHP, Embperl, ASP.... can we steer clear of > > these? > > > > Perl/DBI sounds good to me.... > > although I have to admit that I like php ;)... > > Perl? I never quite got to grips with perl, I have tried but I just > don't understand it. What are its pros and cons? > > How about SmallTalk as the language? or maybe something even more > obscour, like ML or Prolog, will they do it? > > Thanks > > D > > > Sz > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 12 > To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > Cc: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: Language wars // was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> > Organization: Cat-killingly bad > Date: 03 May 2001 17:19:48 +0100 > > David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > > XML has always appeared as a very complex thing which I haven't needed > > to use for my very simple web site! Can any one recommend a good primer > > for XML. > > Hrm, I can't remember where I learnt about it. Probably from > webreference.com or similar. It's just like HTML but with consistency > and your own tags, really. > > > I Am amazed that there is such a holy war about programming languages, > > particully the language people first learnt was there favourite and all > > others are programmed as if they were using the first language. > > Depending on your world-view and the task at hand, I now firmly > believe that either everything is objects or everything is functions. > This is miles away from my first language (BASIC) or my second > (FORTH), but I tend to watch people and I've seen things that would > make your toes curl. I guess others on this list will have seen > worse, though. > > I don't really get into holy wars about language, though. I just try > to avoid engaging with ones I dislike unless absolutely necessary. I > have that luxury at the moment. > -- > MJR > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 13 > Reply-To: "Mark Wilkinson" <mark(a)wiggis.com> > From: "Mark Wilkinson" <mark(a)wiggis.com> > To: <David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com>, <alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk> > Subject: Re: one thread, three holy wars was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:27:31 +0100 > charset="iso-8859-1" > > I think it best to program it in raw assembler and store the data on a 1.44 > floppy in EBCDIC. > > FWIW. > > Mark W. > > :-D > > PS. As per my original email on this. Why do people want to re-invent the > wheel? There's a package on freshmeat that could be taken, customised and > whacked on a linux box in say... a couple of hours. :-O Am I missing > something here? Is the objective a programming exercise or to get a library > system running? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Freeman" <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> > To: <alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk> > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 5:08 PM > Subject: one thread, three holy wars was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > > > > --- Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> wrote: > > Andrew Savory wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, 02 May, 2001 at 21:51 +0100, Brett Parker wrote: > > > > > > > Agghhhhh! Not the omnipotent, and very nasty hack that is MySQL > > ;) Can I > > > > suggest that after "learning" from MySQL you try a real database > > system > > > > that actually works such as PostgreSQL. > > > > > > *sigh* I really hate it when I have to say this.... > > > > > > I agree with Brett. He has a good point. > > > > > > If we want to showcase the best of free software and what linux can > > do, > > > let's use Postgres eh? Postgres is a true ACID relational database, > > > stable, secure, full-featured and with extensive support for SQL92. > > MySQL, > > > um, isn't. > > > > yep, and until recently MySQL didn't have transaction support !!! > > hhmm > > nice and resilient ;).. > > Postgress gets my vote... > > So we have the holywar about Which language to write it in, now we have > a second holy war over which RDBMS we use, couple this with the > XML/HTML war and wow! > > Can we get Vi vs EMacs in as well? > > > > > > > Thoughts on what language to implement this in... Perl + DBI is > > nice and > > > quick, Java is a little much for the initial site but might be a > > nice > > > project for someone to add later. Ruby is always being mentioned to > > me but > > > I have no idea if it has DBI-like features or not. Then there's the > > evils > > > of the world such as PHP, Embperl, ASP.... can we steer clear of > > these? > > > > Perl/DBI sounds good to me.... > > although I have to admit that I like php ;)... > > Perl? I never quite got to grips with perl, I have tried but I just > don't understand it. What are its pros and cons? > > How about SmallTalk as the language? or maybe something even more > obscour, like ML or Prolog, will they do it? > > Thanks > > D > > > Sz > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 14 > To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > Cc: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> > Organization: Cat-killingly bad > Date: 03 May 2001 17:30:02 +0100 > > David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > > > So this would be what owen was saying about PHP on sunday about content > > and markup being mixed together, Whilst I can see some of these evils, > > doesn't CSS attempt to help? > > Oh, many of us will have a go at PHP for that. CSS doesn't really > help much, as you still have most of your program code stuffed in a > servable document rather than kept right away from your markup. There > are ways to remedy it a little, but it's better not to have the > problem there in the first place, eh? > -- > MJR > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 15 > Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:34:08 -0700 (PDT) > From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> > Reply-To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > Subject: Re: one thread, three holy wars was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > > --- Mark Wilkinson <mark(a)wiggis.com> wrote: > > I think it best to program it in raw assembler and store the data on > > a 1.44 > > floppy in EBCDIC. > > I take it that in true style this will be 68000 series assembler :o) > > /me has learnt z80 assembler and will learn PIC assembler. > > > FWIW. > > > > Mark W. > > > > :-D > > > > PS. As per my original email on this. Why do people want to re-invent > > the > > wheel? There's a package on freshmeat that could be taken, customised > > and > > whacked on a linux box in say... a couple of hours. :-O Am I missing > > something here? Is the objective a programming exercise or to get a > > library > > system running? > > Shoot this man for being boring :o) you should know all projects start > as a debate about features, language and then decide if something else > does the job. > > Thanks > > D > > <snip> > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 16 > Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:35:47 -0700 (PDT) > From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> > Reply-To: David_freeman(a)rocketmail.com > Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... > To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > > > --- MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: > > David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > > > > > So this would be what owen was saying about PHP on sunday about > > content > > > and markup being mixed together, Whilst I can see some of these > > evils, > > > doesn't CSS attempt to help? > > > > Oh, many of us will have a go at PHP for that. CSS doesn't really > > help much, as you still have most of your program code stuffed in a > > servable document rather than kept right away from your markup. > > There > > are ways to remedy it a little, but it's better not to have the > > problem there in the first place, eh? > > -- > > MJR > > OK then how about ASP? :o) > > </fx action="lights blue touch paper and retires to safe distance"> > > Thanks > > D > > PS Mark does the above Parse ok? > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > alug mailing list > alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > > > End of alug Digest

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We missed our 2nd birthday :-(
by Adam Bower 04 May '01

04 May '01

I was just perusing the site and noticed that we missed the aniversary of our first meet! http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/meetings/year1/meeting1.html Adam

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ALUG Library again again.
by brodders＠cwcom.net 04 May '01

04 May '01

:) LOL many nice threads. Hm - So Zeus not open source. Dave - you seem to have something in mind from (fm) - got a specific name / link? Found many hits for "library" when last looked. How do I post onto the ALUG web server? Not a student at UEA. Is the service open to all? Can't we use it for.. ALUGL! java ain't that bad; we could conect it to a flat file kept on the server's floppy. Someone must have ported QBASIC by now; who needs an RDBMS? If not, we could just have a stick and carve notches onto it. But who's going to hold onto the stick? What if they break it or throw it for their dog? Need a backup then. A bundle of sticks - and it's !SOLVED! Thanks Andrew for the link to postgres info- Steve PS per'aps I should just give the MySQL book back & creep away quietly...

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by Andrew.Chandler＠ft.com 04 May '01

04 May '01

Only if it's your coding style *grin* <religious war> GNU indent is the best! </> Bing Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> on 04/05/2001 14:10:07 To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk cc: (bcc: Andrew Chandler/PSD/LONDON/FTI) Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... Andrew Chandler wrote: > > I think Adrian was saying it should be written in vi... err.. emacs rather > than Lyx! the resulting postscript is the same, no matter how it is written.. would you complain about somebody's C coding style when the resulting executable is the same ? Sz - K&R brackets are the only way to go ;) -- Open source solutions at http://www.entora.co.uk/ _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! ********************************************************************* * Please visit the web site of the Financial Times at: * * http://www.ft.com * * * * For UK personal finance, please visit http://www.ftyourmoney.com * * * * This E-Mail is intended for the use of the addressee only and may * * contain confidential information. If you are not the intended * * recipient, you are hereby notified that any use or dissemination * * of this communication is strictly prohibited. * * If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us * * immediately then delete this E-Mail. * * * * * postmaster(a)ft.com * *********************************************************************

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by Andrew.Chandler＠ft.com 04 May '01

04 May '01

'Word produces HTML", but that's no excuse!! You tell him Adrian! Bing Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> on 04/05/2001 11:10:47 To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk cc: (bcc: Andrew Chandler/PSD/LONDON/FTI) Subject: Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ... "Adrian F. Clark" wrote: > > > Anyway, Neill is using lyx, not pukka LaTeX -- urghhhh! ;p .. lyx produces nice latex ;) > > ..Adrian (Neill's PhD supervisor and a LaTeX hacker ;-) LaTeX guru more like ;).. Sz -- Open source solutions at http://www.entora.co.uk/ _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! ********************************************************************* * Please visit the web site of the Financial Times at: * * http://www.ft.com * * * * For UK personal finance, please visit http://www.ftyourmoney.com * * * * This E-Mail is intended for the use of the addressee only and may * * contain confidential information. If you are not the intended * * recipient, you are hereby notified that any use or dissemination * * of this communication is strictly prohibited. * * If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us * * immediately then delete this E-Mail. * * * * * postmaster(a)ft.com * *********************************************************************

2 1

Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 04 May '01

04 May '01

Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> writes: > [...] What I have more trouble understanding is how XML > differs from SGML. XML is SGML-- rather than HTML++. It's just a bit simplified and easier to parse, I believe. The stylesheeting for XML (XSLT) is also supposedly easier to implement than for SGML (DSSSL), but that seems to be a matter of infrequent argument, as XSLT is Java-orientated while DSSSL is lisp-family-focused. -- MJR

4 5

Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 04 May '01

04 May '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > So this would be what owen was saying about PHP on sunday about content > and markup being mixed together, Whilst I can see some of these evils, > doesn't CSS attempt to help? Oh, many of us will have a go at PHP for that. CSS doesn't really help much, as you still have most of your program code stuffed in a servable document rather than kept right away from your markup. There are ways to remedy it a little, but it's better not to have the problem there in the first place, eh? -- MJR

5 4

Re: one thread, three holy wars was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 04 May '01

04 May '01

"Mark Wilkinson" <mark(a)wiggis.com> writes: > I think it best to program it in raw assembler and store the data on a 1.44 > floppy in EBCDIC. I prefer to put the data there by inductions from an unshielded spark plug. How about you? [...] > whacked on a linux box in say... a couple of hours. :-O Am I missing > something here? Is the objective a programming exercise or to get a library > system running? I'm quite happy to use one of the other systems, but it's not my decision. The debate about tools etc is generally interesting to people working or wanting to work with the web, I think. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Internet ready computer systems GBP195
by MJ Ray 04 May '01

04 May '01

User banned from this list. Complaints filed with ukonline, ic24 and the Metropolitan Police. Fun. Please no-one bother with his advert, as it's a fairly bad price for the equipment and he clearly has no clue or ethics, posting here. -- MJR

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ALUG Library ...
by brodders＠cwcom.net 04 May '01

04 May '01

HALLO THE GROUP Ahem. Hi all.. After discovering the ALUG at the UEA last Sunday - I've been volunteered into getting something going for the O'Reilly books ALUG (via David) now hold. I wanted to borrow the book on MySQL and mSQL - so :) I have been asked to write a system. Oh No! Who me? Me Steve. Me much too much to do (tax, company returns, commuting, 2 houses to buy, holiday someday) but then I want to explore MySQL. Two aspects - 1. The System We Want We've some books (6) a) do we want more? How will be get them? b) do we want to loan other resources (CD's, hardware etc)? c) do we want to loan private as well as ALUG stuff? (perhaps an option) d) do we want a central repository or do things wander around? e) Factor X - the unspoken expectation coming to haunt me later. All the above shape how the database will be designed, data lifecycles & that sort of stuff. Ideas Appreciated, especially if they reduce work. [Only? :) ] 2. Practicalities a) Don't want to put effort into something not used... so start small. b) IF it's to be web based, we'll need a host service supporting MySQL - do we have this?? c) Me No Web Wizard ! d) IF not web based - um, how's it going to work?? e) it's getting late & I've not had my UT fix yet. Anyone want to give a hand / interested in getting something going? Bye! Steve PS will post some more thoughts re design & features a bit later.

10 22

Internet ready computer systems GBP195
by tony.liquids＠ukonline.co.uk 03 May '01

03 May '01

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Language wars // was Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 03 May '01

03 May '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > XML has always appeared as a very complex thing which I haven't needed > to use for my very simple web site! Can any one recommend a good primer > for XML. Hrm, I can't remember where I learnt about it. Probably from webreference.com or similar. It's just like HTML but with consistency and your own tags, really. > I Am amazed that there is such a holy war about programming languages, > particully the language people first learnt was there favourite and all > others are programmed as if they were using the first language. Depending on your world-view and the task at hand, I now firmly believe that either everything is objects or everything is functions. This is miles away from my first language (BASIC) or my second (FORTH), but I tend to watch people and I've seen things that would make your toes curl. I guess others on this list will have seen worse, though. I don't really get into holy wars about language, though. I just try to avoid engaging with ones I dislike unless absolutely necessary. I have that luxury at the moment. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] self intro
by MJ Ray 03 May '01

03 May '01

Joss Winn <joss(a)josswinn.org> writes: > Well, before the list admin finds a new member of the list who lives > in Japan [...] Oh, I don't think we'd notice another member from Japan that easily. Tats, are you still out there? -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 03 May '01

03 May '01

Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> writes: > Thoughts on what language to implement this in... Perl + DBI is nice and > quick, Calling Perl nice is not something I can bring myself to do any more. OK, it's possible to do some really well-crafted software in it, but it's possible to create some monstrosities too and more people do the latter. > [...] Ruby is always being mentioned to me but > I have no idea if it has DBI-like features or not. That'll be me, then. With Ruby, it's not quite so critical, as you just tweak your database object class. Even Perl's DBI isn't a perfect solution, because the SQLs don't seem to quite be the same. > [...] Then there's the evils of the world such as PHP, Embperl, > ASP.... can we steer clear of these? Please! While I can't call Perl nice, I won't program in PHP any more beyond simple tasks because of the mental anguish it causes. -- MJR

1 0

Re: [Alug] IP Traffic monitoring
by Andrew.Chandler＠ft.com 03 May '01

03 May '01

It's a pity you haven't access to the Cisco (I assme the router is Cisco?) There's a nice command called "ip accounting". It will give you a table of IP addresses and how much traffic they have sent. I occasionally use this with an Expect script to drag back a set of network stats on a particular router. There are a number of non-intrusive methods too. We have some network probes that tap into the leased line and monitor it externally. A more expensive way of doing it though! Oh well just my 2 pence.... Andi "Mark Wilkinson" <mark(a)wiggis.com> on 02/05/2001 17:44:09 To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk cc: (bcc: Andrew Chandler/PSD/LONDON/FTI) Subject: Re: [Alug] IP Traffic monitoring Hmm. That's where I was heading. The extract of the numbers is trivial and would give me 99% of their traffic. I'll try to knock something up in Perl that whacks the data into a MySQL database directly. Could be an interesting project. Cheers. M. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raphael Mankin" <raph(a)panache.demon.co.uk> To: "Mark Wilkinson" <mark(a)wiggis.com> Cc: "alug" <alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:26 PM Subject: RE: [Alug] IP Traffic monitoring It's in the Apache access log. Everything that is sent and how big it is. Not perfect; it does not include the overhead of setting up connections, but it is a start. On 02-May-01 Mark Wilkinson wrote: > Hi everyone. > > We are about to put a website online for an important customer but we want > to monitor the bandwidth usage on a monthly basis and bill them > accordingly. > > Has anyone any ideas on how to do IP Traffic monitoring? We don't have > access to the stats on our primary router (basically our upstream won't > give > us the data for some reason) so I just wanted to put some kind of packet > counter in.. > > Any ideas or package recommendations? I've looked at sourceforge but am not > sure of the products I'm finding there. I want a standalone product that > doesn't look like a beast to install and dumps the data in a nice format > for > sticking into a database. > > Cheers. > > Mark W. > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! ---------------------------------- ... all the fallacious exactitude that characterises a statistical table. - Eric Partridge E-Mail: Raphael Mankin <raph(a)panache.demon.co.uk> Date: 02-May-01 Time: 17:25:52 ---------------------------------- _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! ********************************************************************* * Please visit the web site of the Financial Times at: * * http://www.ft.com * * * * For UK personal finance, please visit http://www.ftyourmoney.com * * * * This E-Mail is intended for the use of the addressee only and may * * contain confidential information. If you are not the intended * * recipient, you are hereby notified that any use or dissemination * * of this communication is strictly prohibited. * * If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us * * immediately then delete this E-Mail. * * * * * postmaster(a)ft.com * ********************************************************************* ********************************************************************* * Please visit the web site of the Financial Times at: * * http://www.ft.com * * * * For UK personal finance, please visit http://www.ftyourmoney.com * * * * This E-Mail is intended for the use of the addressee only and may * * contain confidential information. If you are not the intended * * recipient, you are hereby notified that any use or dissemination * * of this communication is strictly prohibited. * * If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us * * immediately then delete this E-Mail. * * * * * postmaster(a)ft.com * *********************************************************************

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by David Freeman 03 May '01

03 May '01

--- Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> wrote: > On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 03:02:07PM -0700, David Freeman wrote: > > > --- brodders(a)cwcom.net wrote: > > > d) IF not web based - um, how's it going to work?? > > The big advantage of a web system is that is doesn't require any > additional software to be installed on the clients - prospective > clients should already have a web browser (and with care we can work > with any reasonable one) and if not we still don't have to write it - > it's just a case of installing it. Exactly, If we make the system well it should work on any browser, even IE :o) > The other options are: > > 1. Use the database's client server feature. The server machine just > runs a database with no other specialised software and a small > client is written using the revalent database library which then > communicates over a TCP connection to the database server. > > I know MySQL has this feature - it can be used for remote query > sessions too. PostgreSQL has it too. Down side - requires yet another app to be installed. > 2. Another protocol or RPC mechanism where a client program talks to > a > dedicated server process on the server machine which in turn > communicates with the database. > > This last approach can be flexible and can have low bandwidth > requirements but it would be the most work of any of them. <fx action=something going over my head> RPC sounds difficult. I think web based will be best. > > Badly? We want solutions not problems, ne ideas? > > Oh dear! This kind of speak is the worst kind of management clich�. Sorry, forgot the :o) . Also please don't accuse me of being a manager, I still have some (if limited) technically abilities :o) > > We also need to consider who has access to change/add things? > > Oh, so you probably want to define a set of priveleges and add a > "roles" table. How you model the next bit is open to debate. You > could have a many-to-one relationship between users and roles (many > users belong to one role, one role only per user) in which case some > roles have to include all the privileges of lesser roles. The other > way is to have a many-many between users and roles (thus a link > table). You could have a separate privileges table (almost a link > table) which lists role/priv pairs or you could make the privs > columns > of the roles table. We basically have two levels, people browsing for available books, and a librarian to add things. also I thought of another table reservation(member no., resource number, received) member no. and resource number = composite key = integers recieved = boolean. Thanks D > Steve __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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self intro
by Joss Winn 03 May '01

03 May '01

Well, before the list admin finds a new member of the list who lives in Japan and wonders what the hell is going on, I think I'd better introduce myself.... hello, my name is Joss. I'm from the UK (lincoln actually) but have lived in Japan for the last two and a half years. I joined this list because, well, I like Linux and will be doing an MA in Film Archiving at UEA from Sept. I have no background in computing and no plans to make a career out of it, but am personally interested in Open Source/FSF/GNU Linux. I am also interested in using Unix/Linux within the film preservation and archiving profession. It's dominated by SGI right now, but I understand that Linux is finding it's way into the business too. I use SUSE Linux 7.1 on a Macintosh and it's very sweet. If anyone has any questions specifcally regarding Linux on PPC, then I may be able to help. I've been pretty involved in it now for almost a year. Still a newbie but I can maintain my own box, build a kernel and tweak a XFConfig file! and am starting to be able to give advice to others, so I must be learning something. ;-) Anyway, enough for now. Look forward to meeting you in September. cheers Joss -- http://www.josswinn.org

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 03 May '01

03 May '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > <fx action=eureka> Parse error... no ""s and no / to denote an empty tag... > How about a java program written to utilise the Java Database > connectivity (JDBC) to get the data from mysql. If using Java 1.2 with Never mind that Java is non-free. > XML != nice. HTML does the job fine. XML is a good data interchange format. So are S-expressions. HTML is hopeless, as most of the specifications are entertainingly vague. > PS one of these days I will learn a proper language AKA Lisp and write > some decent type programs. Java's quite nice, but now take those principles to Ruby and do some serious damage to the Universe. http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/ -- MJR

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Linuxday April 29th
by terryfilby 02 May '01

02 May '01

Looking forward to coming to UEA again next Sunday, presume we can park near the venue to download computer, monitor etc and then, probably, go back to the car park. Hope to be there before or near 2 pm. Thanks Terry

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Re: [Alug] Linux Expo 2001
by MJ Ray 02 May '01

02 May '01

Earl Brannigan <earl.brannigan(a)lindenhouse.co.uk> writes: > www.linuxexpo.co.uk for the free registration. The only argument against registering is the amount of spam you get. Use email addresses which are about to die, etc. -- MJR

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