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Re: [Alug] RH Kernel Upgrade problems...
by Simon Parkes 29 Jan '01

29 Jan '01

Ok Bill, thanks for that, but.... I'm getting the memory error message when running lilo -v, so can I assume that it checks to see how much memory is/will be used by the new kernel.. Also I installed via and RPM if that makes any difference.. I am considering just going straight for the 2.4 kernel, maybe that would be a bit less painful? Simon ----- Original Message ----- From: wbh <W.B.Hill(a)uea.ac.uk> To: Simon Parkes <simon.parkes(a)ukonline.co.uk> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [Alug] RH Kernel Upgrade problems... > OK, my guesses. When an x86 PC boots, the BIOS doesn't leave it in > protected mode (in order for DOS to work, don'tcha love it!) So only the > first Meg of memory is available. The linux kernel's gotta fit into this, > before it can switch from real mode. So, the kernel image is too big. > > >Added linux > Boot image: /boot/vmlinux-2.2.16-3 > > Kernel /boot/vmlinux-2.2.16-3 is too big <----- what have I done wrong > > > > ##### Here's my lilo.conf ###### > > <SNIP> > > > image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.2.14-5.0 > > This is a compressed image, so seems to have worked. > > > label=linux > > initrd=/boot/initrd-2.2.14-5.0.img > > read-only > > root=/dev/sda7 > > > > image=/boot/vmlinux-2.2.16-3 > > This isn't, and is apparently too big. > > > label=linux16 > > initrd=/boot/initrd-2.2.16-3.img > > read-only > > root=/dev/sda7 > > So, recompile that kernel image with less in/more as modules/ using "make > bzImage" to get better compression. > > TTFN, > Bill > >

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RH Kernel Upgrade problems...
by Simon Parkes 29 Jan '01

29 Jan '01

Hi everyone... Hoping that somone can shed a bit of light on a problem I'm having.. I have installed all the necessary rpm's (I think), yet after editing the lilo.conf and running lilo -v I'm getting a strange error message telling me that it's too big !!! (See below) The output from free is ... total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 257676 47808 209868 11668 5412 26944 -/+ buffers/cache: 15452 242224 Swap: 207984 0 207984 If it at all helps, the hardware is an IBM Netfinity 4500, Single Proc, 256MB RAM, Hardware RAID5 using the IBM Servraid 4L adapter. ##### Output from "lilo -v" ###### LILO version 21, Copyright 1992-1998 Werner Almesberger Reading boot sector from /dev/sda Merging with /boot/boot.b Boot image: /boot/vmlinuz-2.2.14-5.0 Mapping RAM disk /boot/initrd-2.2.14-5.0.img Added linux Boot image: /boot/vmlinux-2.2.16-3 Kernel /boot/vmlinux-2.2.16-3 is too big <----- what have I done wrong ##### Here's my lilo.conf ###### boot=/dev/sda map=/boot/map install=/boot/boot.b prompt timeout=50 linear default=linux16 image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.2.14-5.0 label=linux initrd=/boot/initrd-2.2.14-5.0.img read-only root=/dev/sda7 image=/boot/vmlinux-2.2.16-3 label=linux16 initrd=/boot/initrd-2.2.16-3.img read-only root=/dev/sda7 TIA Simon P.S. I'll be bringing this machine along to the next ALUG meet.. An organization is like a tree full of monkeys, all on different limbs at different levels, some climbing up, some fooling around and some simply just idling.... The monkeys on top looks down and see a tree full of smiling faces.... The monkeys on the bottom look up and see nothing but assholes...

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Something hiding on my system - anyone have any ideas
by MJ Ray 26 Jan '01

26 Jan '01

Wrong address used. alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk is the list address. Message-ID: <01C0877D.F7100D60.earl.brannigan(a)lindenhouse.co.uk> From: Earl Brannigan <earl.brannigan(a)lindenhouse.co.uk> To: "'alug-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk'" <alug-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk> Subject: Something hiding on my system - anyone have any ideas Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:54:24 -0000 Hi all, New around here, been following the posts for a few weeks - Hoping to make it to Syleham and do the intros there. Anyways - anybody come across this before : Last night I tried to log on to my box and no joy - wouldn't accept any passwords!] OK so I did a quick re-boot and fix with the installation disk (I'm running Red-hat 6.2)- log in and get the message "You have mail". So I open the mail to find a send failure, redirected to root@localhost. Then I scan the message to find the contents of my /etc/shadow file nicely included in the body of the mail! - together with some TCP info (ip address etc) OK So it seems I got Trojaned. OK OK So I should have tripwire or AIDE installed.... I haven't cleaned the box yet - gonna be a major prob to do that. Is anyone aware of any known trojans with this behaviour. The key - I think - is the sendto address on the mail : mmteam(a)techemail.criticalpath.net Ring any bells?? (BTW please feel free to pass this mail on to any buds who may be interested). I haven't checked the email address yet, I was thinking of rewriting the encrypted password entries to render tham useless then sending the mail, or just sending a blank email to see if it bounces (ie. they've moved on) or if not then the only reason I know about this is the fact that my sendmail is not set up at all. Just goes to show - I have been a naughty boy recently and downloaded tons of stuff from FTP Sites all over the place but I think I could narrow the suspect packages down to about 5 or 6 if pushed. Cheers Hope to see you all at Syleham. Cheers Earl "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." - Thomas Alva Edison -- MJR

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Linux Weekly, free subscription
by laurie.brown＠idl-bt.com 26 Jan '01

26 Jan '01

Folks, I received this today, took a look, and subscribed. Posted here in case anyone else wants a look-see. Cheers, Laurie. ---- cut here ---- *** LIMITED TIME OFFER FOR A FREE SUBSCRIPTION OFFER TO LINUX WEEKLY *** http://www.sys-con.com/linux/subscribe.cfm *** Referred to you by: xxx(a)xxx.co.uk Dear Xxxx, Be one of the first IT professionals to receive a FREE subscription to Linux Weekly, the newest title produced by SYS-CON Media. Published twice a month - more than any other Linux publication - LW will provide you with the most up to date information from the Linux community. With Linux Weekly you'll find out about the latest news and developments in L-technology. Read about the latest applications and the newest products on the market. With its in-depth mix of industry news, technical solutions, insight and analysis, written by both fresh new voices and seasoned gurus of the Linux world, LW will give you the edge you need to stay on top in the IT world. And you'll read it here first! No other Linux publication can offer you all this information - twice a month - and FREE OF CHARGE! This free subscription offer expires January 31, 2001 or when we fill our quota for complimentary subscriptions. After that, it will be available for $52 for one year. So sign up today since the number of FREE subscriptions we are giving away is very, very limited! Linux Weekly is published by SYS-CON Media, the leading i-technology publisher in the magazine world, publishers of Java Developer's Journal and XML Journal and Wireless Business & Technology. P.S. - All of our readers in the United States will receive both print and online copies of WBT. All of our international readers will receive our digital edition.

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[Various] Digested Articles
by MJ Ray 26 Jan '01

26 Jan '01

Today's spam for you. It's also been said that I should encourage you all to register with the Linux Counter at http://counter.li.org/ if you haven't already. Topics: [OPN-Content]List is open. Press release, first annoucerment. Discussion may beginn. Thank you. MontaVista Software opening engineering department in UK. Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:13:13 +0100 From: Darian Lanx <bio(a)gmx.net> To: content(a)lists.openprojects.net Subject: [OPN-Content]List is open. Press release, first annoucerment. Discussion may beginn. Thank you. - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 Vienna 24th January 2001. On behalf of Rob Levin, OPN owner, and Darian Lanx, OPN #content project leader, the following announcement is released for public discussion. Please note, that you can review the rules for posting to this list following this link: http://lists.openprojects.net/pipermail/content/2001-January/000010.html All times given on this list should default to UTC+/-0. Please make sure you have looked up how your time zone is relative to UTC. If there are pending meetings, they will be announced in UTC. Any other given times, which carry no suffix are assumed to be UTC. For those who cannot access Mail at all times, this mailing list is mirrored on our news server. Please point your news reader to leguin.org.uk and subscribe to the list op.discussion. Every message sent to the mailing list will be shon in that group. In a few days we will release the technical specifications for this project. Until then, please discuss the points stated below, and encourage your friends to join in. - - -------------------------------------------------------------- The content site will provide features and news on open source projects and the people who work on them. Project successes and needs will be highlighted, new and promising projects will be covered, and we'll interview participants to find out the problems they've had and the lessons they've learned in running their projects. We'll be interested in solicited technical articles from project participants, or helping them put together such articles, as a way to highlight the efforts of their projects. We'll cover such topics as project advocacy, recruiting, collaborative and project management skills and how they affect project efficiency. Topics will include the integration of conventional CS and industry thought and technique, with the informal style of the community: what works, what doesn't, and how we can all improve our open source project skills. Topics will include education and research, techniques, snags and approaches, as well as the need for inter-project coordination. On the philosophical side, we'll highlight questions such as: Why do people do open source? How do they make it work? What significance does it have for them? Plans for the site do not currently include user forums; many sites such as Kuro5hin and Slashdot already link original content on the web to user discussion areas. There will be an "email to the editor" section but it will contain selected emails of editorial interest. The emphasis of the site will be on news, features and editorial comment. The site will embody a set of editorial viewpoints for which Open Projects is well known: (1) The community profits from expansion. But new participants need to be integrated well into the community. Community participants who help recruit new participants and help integrate them into the community should be recognized. Methods for doing so will be a topic of editorial discussion from time to time. (2) The community profits from improved communication and collaboration skills. Community participants whose skills in these areas are exemplary should be recognized for their efforts. (3) Open and free communication make free software development possible. Groups and organizations which defend the ability of developers to work in a public setting without falling prey to legal attack should be recognized for their efforts. Efforts to obstruct projects by legal means should be covered as important community news. (4) Decentralized, parallel structures are robust. Centralized functionality tends to produce bottlenecks when individual projects or structures with no backup fail to function properly. The community takes advantage of parallelization in the form of projects with overlapping functionality, as well as with the ability to fork existing projects. Multiple web servers, multiple ftp clients, multiple shells and editors, multiple desktop managers all contribute to the stability and robustness of community efforts as a whole. So, basically, duplication of effort can be a safety feature for the community. Projects with similar or overlapping goals will be compared and contrasted in such a way that their differences are clear. We will not take the editorial position that having fewer overlapping projects is automatically better. (5) Project politics reduces the effectiveness of project participants. Community members who rise above political concerns and who build bridges between projects should be recognized for their efforts. For example, we'll promote developers who are willing to port KDE applications to Gnome, and vice-versa. We'll recognize the efforts of community members who work to include rival projects in standards discussions. (6) The free software model has useful implications for society at large and may have applicability to projects involving technology or information transfer. We will attempt from time to time to highlight those implications and applications of similar models outside the free software community. Rob Levin & Darian Lanx - - -- Si vis pacem, para bellum - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQNfAwUBOm9TedYKnjdA0qXCFAMbeQ0fdJqyg/1TNp5V6aV9hODdNM0yPrGFVeLG AIuHtwpOymR3BQq198naxi0wLoGUPr03jdxty2A2qKCTlFSWKea5d/K+lm7mzacs vhjo5EzMsB1r/enxWhYSPakkLF02MCjvTBi8R4+EREe6nG/Bg/tZIoh+7rc2XaJH oJcqRN2i5ZIOoAmmDGXF14eOCMhnQ/YVyZPtwkccfB23urpmgwJkuDUj5vxmq8ge mqV+cWfepPXRhJcNtnass9uuw3fRS/Jeh5IMwHDGCddY11f9t1XrhyIxAV69oi/Q idtF49P2gN2QtbpuwmRMPJ98x3qdLpLjoD2H9hBK3dwvV1gvirZeZdbGcSKP8ESN ba4W8E/U2ZT3krXpsf0s0mzl3fCqJrUvAguC6oKPUgBdm7Lm5Kpfl9+1+hjzj9sY szkAxXzN7L2juOHqYHaCSMybdTGVJYXLe9zxH82YPRS+3imgKUkSwQM4KMAEEBMF etGaZvus3qrgCvN7PcW4dNHlKVVAiyt6GFZehbQ30ao68/BApN0gvA66BU0GgJQW fosst6a957r5UkboDSCYPFj3uHvzHvfLRPA/f5wofO9pKxC1nN9Z50RL29+dsdBR lUtDrTPzHlilF/d+tnW8M8BCwO+wogz8kNe379rCXb3NlIo/u+yCZk+31SLLgqmK SJpZj+810RXuqmH+0gnDe43LH4S1rw9C5F1tCkuAhtRnGUn3Hrjcv41nq+iIbs+m ZtITuQH8jnBpEYiQg+09u39dRYOc3e1TQ3GJjQl6uxCbwyrULOZirS2xU49Fbfs2 qJupw86BWmVQ+fJaW1x1Mn39XeiN344iUaipMkW0wMSV3S3QP+iP1O9X7u2S/JJ0 ENXNJvElDdFqluB5u6vLKzH5cFdCfXnfWQ8ncN9EAmOEC2uUyDAIeGIBe7hNZepd 7i1voxQfys0wX8kICWtnJT17tr09SMfu7xJSnGzEew6bqx0ONuu4HLD2/aD4qRFV 6H+bEQ2mMwNXYWVXCB3x56LYcikk9BJ9S4ydig0VHjJfJs7xH/3aWkPjiAXz0Oyc AHQ/meikw4facfWtpOtBGvKjBRw5+I8oT/gLvL8FiWA9uxxq0vgYGz4bY3MdqfsT 1I8= =ZdUu - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQFmAwUBOm9Tqa06Ea18zay0FAOoVgU3dvtSMoqd13bfVaGU2lRH5tr3kNDoHDlj MjoXMiRiHvqH5TYYw9jejBibCmnBCgLr7lHYnK/y4Qun37lhb5Itpgzd8s6OU8mF DII00QG0UgSo7NttSq72718U9jU9rG1/pitMuQLfbCT0nqjrE4O6mpSYb+iZhqRP IgMDXyFmh0vzgiCNDG2BdJliOpKkvAAnBkoHwT3DQHOYDOq+PGI/UGxUGsufarMF P1fBjvp1hkJs316sTMQcNmt/zXSN7YhKEqq8A1uBL04l2NuPT99gxBGXEjHb3pQd ykcHZ18TmQs2y7gSQDAsg5OkOBZotMhM8k05zZBzdvMdxdof5aBvz/QftXUi9JbJ GxpixNBiuRyD90CN49IpXqlAfrTcP8IL5nqjFT/PVrloA77WSw2wrhvD1GG4YRrk VxCXAdwOrcdEI+FPzdyp6M82MbMPRpXu+g= 4Vqv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:34:43 -0000 From: I Graham <igraham(a)scheduledevelopments.co.uk> Subject: MontaVista Software opening engineering department in UK. Hi, I was pointed at this address by some guys in the Hampshire LUG, so I hope this e-mail is appropriate to this list. I am with MontaVista Software, the makers of HardHat Linux for embedded systems, and we are in the process of opening our international engineering department (non-US) based in Bracknell, Berkshire. I am looking for experienced Linux developers to join the engineering team in a variety of roles, including technical support and professional services. I don't want to post detailed job specs here but typically this will involve kernel and device driver work in C, as well as other embedded specific work, such as Micro Windows, FLTK Toolkit, etc, in C and C++. There is probably the opportunity for travel throughout Europe and to the Sates and maybe to Japan. There will be some customer facing aspects to some of the roles. The markets that MontaVista targets include things like consumer electronics, telecomms, set top boxes and internet TV. In short, embedded devices with limited resources that can benefit from Linux. If you would like more information, please e-mail or phone me :- Telephone : 07787114306 E-mail : IGraham(a)Schedule.Demon.co.uk Ian Graham Director, International Engineering MontaVista Software (www.MVista.com) P.S. You'll notice that I haven't even got my e-mail running through MVista servers yet. This really is getting in at the beginning. I want to set up an open evening and will do so in early February, depending on the response to this e-mail. -- MJR

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Linux Music
by David Freeman 25 Jan '01

25 Jan '01

For the person who was looking for a music typesetting program http://www.cs.ruu.nl/~hanwen/lilypond/ Thanks D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] What happens at meetings?
by MJ Ray 25 Jan '01

25 Jan '01

Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com writes: > I'm sorry to be a pest, but I am completely in the dark as to what actually > happens at an ALUG meeting - from what i can gather we all turn up with as > many bits as possible and join them together and get them > working/networked/whatever whilst drinking copious amounts of hot liquids. > Or cold, if there is a pub at the end of the road. That seems fairly accurate so far! :-) Well, they've usually just been fixing and networking, but sometimes there have been particular demonstrations or topics to the meeting. I think it's agreed that we'd like another side to the meeting with presentations etc, but people have been fairly slow in coming forward. There were a few (good, as I recall) ideas, so is anyone wanting to commit to talking at Syleham? Subject to John's agreement (as organiser), part of the Syleham meeting will be a round-table so we can tell you what we know about LinuxDay and get help in organising it. [Can't remember if we agreed that last night. I'll just check the log. Yep, looks like it.] And if someone wants to do a talk/presentation too (just one fairly short one this time, please), then speak out now. > Are there many at meetings, do you know each other, are there any others > like myself who are struggling with the basics still, is it worth coming > even if you don't bring your linux box, etc? Numbers have varied up to about two dozen in the past, but list membership has grown by 50% or so since the last meeting, so perhaps we should look for at least that now. The ones who have been around from day one know each other and there are groups from the two unis, but some new faces arrive each time and are welcomed into the fold. And it's still worthwhile without a box, but not as fun because it does mean that you're more of a spectator than a participant. If we can get some talks off the ground, it would make it even more worthwhile, but there's a strong chatting side to it too. > Do send me a pointer to any info up on LUG sites if I've missed it. http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/meetings/ (needs completing: volunteers?) and http://www.lug.org.uk/ perhaps. -- MJR

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Cups and Distiller
by Chris Glover 24 Jan '01

24 Jan '01

Hi, I have just installed Cups on my Linux box. I have installed the Epson Stylus Photo 750 driver, and the Adobe Distiller driver. The Epson works perfectly, but every time I send a job to the distiller, it just seems to produce a postscript file instead of a PDF. I'm using the Adobe Distiller PPD that came with Mandrake 7.2 Any ideas would be much appreciated, in the mean time I shall have to generate Post script files and pass them though windows distiller Many Thanks Chris Chris *************************************************************************** E Mail Chris(a)glovercc.clara.co.uk WWW http://www.glovercc.clara.co.uk ICQ 18054759 Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject. -Anon

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Archive
by David Freeman 24 Jan '01

24 Jan '01

Are all messages on this list archived a tall? Thanks D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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Linux and Music
by Steve Fosdick 24 Jan '01

24 Jan '01

I remember someone from the user group mentioning that he was interested in music applications for Linux but despite looking back over the last few months of mailing list archives I haven't discovered who. Anyway I'd be interested to hear whether anyone has found software to do the following: 1. Capture MIDI events from an external midi controller keyboard to a MIDI file whilst at the same time playing them on the sound card, despite the fact that the soundcard doesn't have a midi synth on-board. I have found timidity which is able to play MIDI files on my sound card (Soundblaster PCI = ES1371) but there doesn't seem to be a way to use this real time, i.e. it expects the data in a file. I also tried a couple of MIDI sequencer programs, one of which is the one built in to rosegarden and the other whose name I forget but both complained that the high-level MIDI interface to the sound card wasn't available and refused to do anything useful. 2. Music Typesetting. Currently I have Rosegarden but I find that entering notes with this program is very slow, so I'd be interested to hear if there is anything else out there. Thanks in Advance, Steve.

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Re: [Alug] Linux and Music
by MJ Ray 24 Jan '01

24 Jan '01

Beatrice Bray <bjb(a)walks65.fsnet.co.uk> writes: > By the way the nursery rhyme is Ba Ba Black Sheep. Confident? It looked like something else to me :-/ -- MJR

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Ann: ALUG 2001.1
by John Woodard 23 Jan '01

23 Jan '01

Here is the official announcement of the next ALUG meeting (ALUG 2001.1) which will be at Syleham Village Hall, Syleham, Suffolk on Sunday 4th Feb 2001 2:00 - 6:00 pm. Venue details at http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/venues/syleham.html. The hall will cost us a tenner again, which is still pretty cheap, so contributions on the day will be most welcome. Syleham and Wingfield Computer Club have said they will provide tea and coffee again which is nice of them. If you're coming post to the list with any suggestions or assistance you need. I'll post to relevant Usenet groups later any suggestions to which ones that are appropriate. I thought: uk.local.eastanglia uk.comp.os.linux linux.announce any others? Cheers, BJ

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Re: [Alug] What happens at meetings?
by MJ Ray 23 Jan '01

23 Jan '01

Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com writes: > I've got thousands of projects i keep shelving that would take a few > pointers to get me going again, such as Samba, pcmcia, although i will feel > a bit guilty firing questions with no particular input. Don't worry, when you're an expert, we'll expect you to help the next crop of newbies ;-) (Of course, the old guard will have grown beards and gone insane by then, so no newbies will talk to us.) > I keep wondering if i could help out by writing anything for the > website from a newbie (ugh i hate that word) point of view, but even > that seems beyond my present capabilities :) I'm very interested in having something at a rather lower technical but more personal level written for the first edition. But you know that. Just ask if you need help. Hopefully John will be editing the site too soon. (One more time: I NEED HELP, PEOPLE!) -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] What happens at meetings?
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 23 Jan '01

23 Jan '01

> From what I remember, average attendance is about 5-10. Hopefully more at the next one as we haven't meet in a while. Hey, ok, sounds good - I'm supposed to be rehearsing on Sun 4th but I'll move the date if I possibly can, if I don't turn up to this one to pick brains then it certainly isn't because I don't want to! I've got thousands of projects i keep shelving that would take a few pointers to get me going again, such as Samba, pcmcia, although i will feel a bit guilty firing questions with no particular input. I keep wondering if i could help out by writing anything for the website from a newbie (ugh i hate that word) point of view, but even that seems beyond my present capabilities :) I'm quite good at eating biscuits. And i could compare two wheel experiences with the guy who has just moved to Red Lodge.

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Re: [Alug] Possible Venue -- I need help!
by Ashley T. Howes PhD 23 Jan '01

23 Jan '01

>So, the question is: what do we want from a >venue? Not a lot really. Adequate space, some tables and chairs (oh, and a loo!). I think there are enough people with hubs, cable, etc to set up an internal network. The configuration of outside internet access is not necessary and seems to cause lots of problems. Ashley -- Dr. Ashley T. Howes PhD ashley(a)turton.com Internet Developer http://www.turton.com Turton Creative Marketing Solutions 23-27 St. Andrews Street, Norwich, Norfolk, NR2 4TP Tel:+44 (0)1603 766888 Fax:+44 (0)1603 767070

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What happens at meetings?
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 23 Jan '01

23 Jan '01

I'm sorry to be a pest, but I am completely in the dark as to what actually happens at an ALUG meeting - from what i can gather we all turn up with as many bits as possible and join them together and get them working/networked/whatever whilst drinking copious amounts of hot liquids. Or cold, if there is a pub at the end of the road. Are there many at meetings, do you know each other, are there any others like myself who are struggling with the basics still, is it worth coming even if you don't bring your linux box, etc? Do send me a pointer to any info up on LUG sites if I've missed it. Cheers, Jenny.

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Possible Venue -- I need help!
by MJ Ray 23 Jan '01

23 Jan '01

Hi all, I spoke on the phone to the owners of the St Augustine's Centre, King's Lynn, and it *looks like* it will be possible to hold some meetings there. However, they want to know what we're looking for in a venue so they can see give us the most appropriate room before committing to anything. So, the question is: what do we want from a venue? (FWIW, I doubt the centre cafe will be open at weekends, but a shop is at the end of the road and a pub is around two hundred metres away, don't fret.) I could also do with any help from this area in setting up, if possible, and reminding by past venue organisers how much has been paid for their venues. I've got my eye on mid-March, but my desire for ALUG to visit Essex for a first time is still undiminished if anyone is able to organise things for there. -- MJR

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Re: Welcome To "alug"!
by Syd Hancock 23 Jan '01

23 Jan '01

Hello everybody Just a note to let you know that I have rejoined under a new email address - formerly compuserve. Am still waiting to find or make a few quiet hours for some install sessions. Will let you know how I get on. Best wishes Syd Brittany ----------------- New email address: syd(a)toufol.com

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ALUG-IRC 22 Jan
by MJ Ray 22 Jan '01

22 Jan '01

Another IRC meeting, the log follows. Today's highlights include: - much head-scratching about Rodney (John's recalcitrant box) - brief mentions of LinuxDay and the website - what we think of web applications and iMacs - other random chat. See you at the next one next Monday at 8pm! Hopefully by then we'll have a "short intro to IRC" on the website... IRC log started Mon Jan 22 19:53:57 2001 <slef> hah, that works <BigJohn> how you doing <slef> not too bad. Far too busy, though <slef> today was a total waste, though <BigJohn> I know the feeling <BigJohn> I've been trying to get lilo to work for about a week now and it's doing my head in <BigJohn> I've been attempting a dual boot mdk7.2 Win2k <slef> boot floppies still work, though? * paulr (paulr(a)modem-27.blue-spotted-wrasse.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #alug <paulr> hi all. <BigJohn> I installed lilo on my /boot partition and copied the first 512 bytes of the boot sector onto a floppy and loading it with the NT boot loader just get the dreded li... <BigJohn> evening Paul <BigJohn> boot floppy I made on install works but I think that has a kernel on it <slef> yeah, it does, but it's a temporary way out * miniman (jonathan(a)necryon.demon.co.uk) has joined #alug <miniman> hi <slef> hiya <BigJohn> yeah I know if I try a lilo floppy it just does the same li... its not seeing the kernel for some reason <BigJohn> Hi Jon <slef> who's rdc btw? <BigJohn> Oi rdc who are you :) <paulr> hi miniman. <rdc> Sorry distracted. <rdc> Thanks for the advice last week miniman. make mrproper sorted my probs out. <BigJohn> miniman: My lilo's still broke :( <miniman> ah cool <paulr> heh. * louisd (digfields(a)host213-1-140-237.btinternet.com) has joined #alug <louisd> Hi <paulr> hi louisd. * ashley (ashley(a)userhp69.uk.uudial.com) has joined #alug <BigJohn> Evening Ash <paulr> hi ash. busy tonight, huh? <ashley> hello everyone <BigJohn> My god! is this a record number of attendees? <louisd> What's the topic? <slef> yes, I think so <miniman> BigJohn: so it isn't able to find your kernel when using the boot floppy *** slef has changed the topic on channel #alug to BigJohn's dual boot doesn't <paulr> heh <miniman> with this many ppl in here we should be able to sort rodney out <ashley> this is the first irc meet i've attended in months <BigJohn> miniman: no doesn't find it boohoo *** slef has changed the topic on channel #alug to BigJohn's dual boot doesn't // <BigJohn> I installed lilo on my /boot partition ... loading it with the NT boot loader just get the dreded li... <paulr> BigJohn: you've tried everything in the howto, I assume <paulr> ? <BigJohn> cool I'm famous :) * iDunno (brett(a)modem-129.cuban-hogfish.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #alug <BigJohn> yes just about I think <paulr> right. <iDunno> boo. <BigJohn> Hi Brett <slef> ISTR we bashed against this at a meeting <iDunno> "ooops" (topic) <iDunno> hi john. <iDunno> wonder what gave my name away... <paulr> um. BigJohn: is it lilo that you dd, or the kernel? <paulr> must be lilo, I guess. hmm. <iDunno> go on! copy the kernel to your boot sector... * iDunno looks at paul...muppet! [#alug] <BigJohn> used the mini how-to suggestion dd if=/dev/hdg1 of=/bootsect.lnx bs=512 count=1 <BigJohn> lilo installed on /dev/hdg1 <louisd> rdc : I got that 486 under my desk working today <louisd> I'm going to bung that network card back in the home machine and see if I can figure out networking the two <paulr> BigJohn: um. how many hard disks do you have BJ?! * iDunno screams at NS for being shite. [#alug] <iDunno> (and totally forgets where he was aiming his browser) <paulr> Neo the ever helpful ;) <paulr> um. iD, rather. <paulr> BigJohn: I've done that before, and it definately worked -- can't think what could be causing the problem :/ <iDunno> heh <paulr> iDunno: played with dual booting linux and NT recently? <BigJohn> hard disk count= 2 identicle disks hardware raid0 win2k and 1 disk for Linux <paulr> raid0? is that append, or mirror? <iDunno> paulr: not for 3 years. <louisd> Has anyone tried getting a dual boot linux/solaris box sorted? <slef> paulr: mirror <BigJohn> paulr: stripped <slef> uh * slef gets confused * BigJohn more confused <slef> 0 append, 1 mirror, 5 clever? <BigJohn> sounds about right <slef> paulr: append. <BigJohn> whish I had more disks for rais5 * iDunno loses track of everything and crawls into a whole <paulr> 10 == very nice. <iDunno> slef: 5 = hellously clever <paulr> (10 == mirrored raid 5, yes, really) <BigJohn> 15==even better <paulr> heh <paulr> there's a trend here.. <ashley> we have raid 5 at work. Very useful <iDunno> ouch! nice. <slef> iDunno: do you use a mobile phone...? (see tsw.org.uk...) <BigJohn> raid 5 is extreemly smart me thinks <ashley> BigJohn: yep, if a hard disk buries its head, we just swap in a spare <iDunno> slef: erm - yeah... * iDunno wombles to see <slef> paulr: is it you with the raid5 horror story? <paulr> Sun mainframes used to order their own disks when they shot a platter. <iDunno> slef: where am I looking? <BigJohn> rais 5 you can strip and mirror with only 3 disks iirc <ashley> paulr: cool <slef> iDunno: autism thread, today's additions <paulr> raid5 is parity striped. <iDunno> slef: you mean the "the first we knew of one of the disks dying was a new one arriving on the desk?" <paulr> raid4 is a PITA and is non-striped parity. <slef> iDunno: I mean the raid5 array that just lit a little red light so as not to worry anyone... no-one noticed before the 2nd disk failed. <paulr> RAID3 is a striped append, which is about as sensible as carrying a loaded magnum in your underwear. <BigJohn> its all far too clever for me anyhow :) <BigJohn> hehe <slef> paulr: I'm sure there's an obscene comment to be made about that. <iDunno> slef: nah - pauls is the disk arriving on desk one...afaik. <BigJohn> so any ideas on why lilo is giving me so much grief <slef> Your evil hard disk controllers again, probably. <BigJohn> but I've has it working on this setup before <BigJohn> linux can see the disks and the same problem occours id I bung the linux disk on a standard controller??? <slef> Well, you know I only ever have one possible solution to lilo problems. "linear" <BigJohn> what does that do? <slef> tells lilo to ignore the controller a bit <slef> I think <BigJohn> I'll give it a go do I need a compact statement in lilo.conf? <slef> why do you have the NT loader calling lilo anyway? <iDunno> slef: cos it don't work the other way. <iDunno> BigJohn: you seen the NT+Linux howto? <slef> Actually, it works fine. Lilo can call the NT loader & NT will <slef> never knows the difference. <BigJohn> cos thats what the documentation said for once I actually RTFM :) * slef is just websearching now... http://archive.lug.boulder.co.us/bymonth/1999.03/msg00336.html * paulr has signed off (Ping timeout for paulr[modem-27.blue-spotted-wrasse.dialup.pol.co.uk]) <BigJohn> so I do it the oter way around and call the NT loader from lilo? Won't that kill my NT boot setup? <iDunno> slef: can't find the bit you are on bout on tsw. <slef> iDunno: autism story... has a bit about mobile phones in the thread * paulr (paulr(a)modem-22.south-dakota.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #alug <paulr> I love dialup, don't you? <iDunno> autism where? <slef> BigJohn: I don't know... I think you need to find someone actually using NT in a similar setup <slef> iDunno: "Internet Causes Autistic Society?" <slef> erk <slef> why's that link gone there? <BigJohn> I know this big bloke called John who was using a dual boot setup :) <iDunno> slef: tried there, can't see sfa. <iDunno> exactly. care to fix? <slef> iDunno: yes, but stop trying to be cute and just tell me the link is to the wrong story. * paulr has signed off (Ping timeout for paulr[modem-22.south-dakota.dialup.pol.co.uk]) <slef> hrm, so nothing more to do to John's booting? * paulr (paulr(a)modem-22.south-dakota.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #alug <paulr> um. wtf? * paulr gently prods opn. <ashley> anyone know of a good open source content management for the web? <BigJohn> I'm going to give loading lilo on the master boot record a go better make some NT recovery disks though! <iDunno> slef: erm - yeah - it goes to the wrong story ;) *** slef has changed the topic on channel #alug to <ashley> anyone know of a good open source content management for the web? <slef> iDunno: no it doesn't <paulr> No, frankly. I could write you one. <iDunno> that's better :) <paulr> But that would rely on either: (a) a lot more CFT, or (b) a cheque for about 30 thou. <ashley> :) <slef> It depends what you're after. Some 2nd and 3rd generation web solutions can be made to work for limited things, but they're ultimately doomed. <paulr> slef: god. what gen is C2? <ashley> what type of backends do they use? Database, XML? <slef> ALUG is a strange mix of 1st generation with one eye on future-proofing. <slef> paulr: 4th, if it works. <paulr> slef: ahh. <slef> 1st = flat file and filestores; 2nd = CGI/PHP/etc ; 3rd = early appservers like Zope; 4th = yet to come <paulr> ashley: well, a cocoon based one could use whatever you want, really. I'd be tempted to use Tamino if you need it Big Stylee Industrial, and you have $$$. <slef> So ends slef's web history revisionism <slef> ashley: Databases almost all, sometimes XML databases. <paulr> (as a backend -- it's a database capagle of storing XML) <ashley> Where does Cocoon sit? Between the XML store and the presentation? <BigJohn> could some one tell me the command to make an app always start as root `which....? <paulr> ashley: Cocoon is an XML based application framework. <paulr> it's the glue that would let you build a CMS, basically (the CMS would run inside Cocoon) <ashley> paulr: So its a scripting language? <paulr> ashley: uh, not exactly, no. <paulr> it's a framework. 23 thousand lines worth of servlet, in reality. <slef> BigJohn: chmod u+s executable? <ashley> paulr: can you give example of use? <paulr> take a look at the (very out of date) http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/, with a particular eye on the Cocoon2 bit. <iDunno> Cocoon is a java application framework with a focus on converting anything to anything and running as a neato funky server under tomcat... <iDunno> (maybe?) <paulr> iDunno: um. eloquent. sortof. <iDunno> paulr: well...it does sorta, ish... <paulr> ashley: okay, imagine A.N.Other web application, say written in PHP <BigJohn> slef: cheers <paulr> now pull the look and feel of it away from the content, and away from the 'what appears on what page' (what I call presentation) <paulr> you end up with a 4/5 layered architecture: <slef> BigJohn: ought to use sudo or something instead <ashley> thanks paul. Will read later. <paulr> [EJB/Database] -> [Content selection/XSP] -> [Styling] -> [Client]. <iDunno> sudo rocks... <paulr> ashley: okay mate. give me a yell if you need any pointers. <iDunno> sudo + alias == good nice clean wholesome fun. <slef> [Huge program] -> [Upward motion] -> [Own backside] * slef runs <paulr> heh <slef> seriously, it's all good engineering and it'll be needed if e-commerce is ever going to work <paulr> indeed. <paulr> although a lot of other things will be too (direct interfacing to EFT etc etc etc) <slef> ok, can we move on quickly (I want to go eat dinner tonight)? <ashley> paulr: EFT? <paulr> heh. *** slef has changed the topic on channel #alug to LinuxDay <paulr> ashley: electronic funds transfer. <slef> well, I suck... not sorted the venue out yet <paulr> anyway, on with the show. <slef> Are we OK to sit around a table at Syleham and discuss it more then? <BigJohn> back shortly chaps * BigJohn (bj(a)modem-135.washington.dialup.pol.co.uk) has left #alug because () <paulr> works for me. <ashley> sounds good. <slef> paulr: enough about that. Will you be able to sit at a table and discuss LinuxDay? <paulr> slef: when is it? <paulr> (both) <slef> paulr: April 29th, Feb 4th (iirc) * bj (bj(a)modem-222.rhode-island.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #alug <slef> bj: Feb 4th? <paulr> okay. * paulr looks at palm <paulr> okay, where'd I put it? * slef looks at palm... ooh, my life line looks long <paulr> heh <slef> ok <paulr> sunday. hmm. is andrew going? <paulr> just going to buy a bottle of wine. back shortly. *** slef has changed the topic on channel #alug to Website -- email articles, designs, offers of help, crisp used monetary notes to markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk <slef> paulr: I don't think he's said yet <paulr> slef: okay. <bj> Feb 4th is confirmed 2:00 - 6:00 <slef> Anyone got stuff they want to write just a short bit about for the website? <iDunno> slef: erm - erm - is you giving andy and pauly a lift? <slef> Doesn't need to be a huge essay... I'm going to put a short one on setting fax up as a printer Real Soon Now <slef> iDunno: nfc <paulr> slef: want to content syndicate from my personal site when CFT allows be to write it?# <slef> iDunno: not if you are ;) <slef> paulr: will gleefully <slef> paulr: would quite like lots of material on the main site too, though <iDunno> heh. I'll stay home then <sulk /> *** bj is now known as BigJohn <iDunno> anyone written the mini IRC howto yet? <paulr> slef: about what? <paulr> ack. gone. back soon. <iDunno> he will get that wine, honest ;) <slef> iDunno: no... you writing it? <slef> http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/background/submissions.html IIRC * slef looks <iDunno> slef: erm - won't be untill at least thurs...got some major work to do. <BigJohn> anyone writen a lilo+NT on RODNEY how-to yet :) <slef> yes, that's right <slef> iDunno: that's fine... if we can get this out the door by Friday, I'll be happy <iDunno> slef: u in on weds btw? <ashley> what type of IRC article is needed? <slef> iDunno: yes, somehow (car semi-broken still) <slef> ashley: how to connect (probably console, gnome, KDE clients), where to find good help, etc. <iDunno> slef: k - might need you and adam for some serious stuff (like kit hunting and working out what we want from who and if they accept wassbobsthat I can't remeber) <slef> iDunno: OK, but can we talk about it elsewhere <ashley> slef: sorry, can't help. I'm talking via a mac at present (Ashley runs...) <iDunno> slef: yeah. <slef> ashley: sOK, but not the best Linux promotion, probably <iDunno> obviously the mac has deb on it... <slef> OK, I'm going to go get dinner... I'll log until 9pm so keep chatting about stuff if you want ;-) <ashley> I believe in separate tools for separate jobs - macs are good for somethings, Linux boxes are good for others... <iDunno> haven't found much that I can't do on a nux box...biggest let down s dtp...haven't found a nice dtp proggy yet. * louisd de-lurks to say cheerio <BigJohn> iMacs are great for posing on receptionists desks in advertising agencys * louisd (digfields(a)host213-1-140-237.btinternet.com) has left #alug because () <iDunno> eww. they're horrible..they're fugly...I don't like 'em ;) <ashley> BigJohn: my companies got one (marketing/web company) <ashley> My ibook gives me 5-6 hours battery time! <iDunno> my psion gives me 30-40 hours ;) <BigJohn> why do you see so many of them on the telly? cos telly producers think they look coo! personally I think they look like boiled sweets! <iDunno> right - anyways...offfffff! <iDunno> tata all. * iDunno has signed off (gone!) <ashley> Seen the new powerbook laptop. www.apple.com - 15", titanium case, etc. Of course you can't run much on it... <ashley> I'm off, see you later... -- MJR

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["Ms. Lene Jensen" <ljensen@redhat.com>] Job offering
by MJ Ray 22 Jan '01

22 Jan '01

For info... Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:42:57 -0500 (EST) From: "Ms. Lene Jensen" <ljensen(a)redhat.com> To: uklugs(a)lug.org.uk Subject: Job offering Hi, Red Hat is looking for a permanent trainer to join our team in Guildford. We want someone who knows Red Hat Linux well, or someone with Linux skills who wants to learn Red Hat Linux intimately. Of course, teaching skills is a must... Description Role: Technical Trainer Overview: To provide and oversee the delivery of the highest quality Red Hat Linux technical training to Red Hat customers and staff Responsibilities: · To teach technical training courses in Red Hat's portfolio · To teach public scheduled courses or onsite as required · To learn new courses as required and as appropriate to skillset · To ensure all course materials are up-to-date · To introduce into use any new or revised materials and ensure other instructors are made aware of the new or revised materials · To provide technical input for course customisation at customer meetings as required · To customise or develop materials for onsites or new courses as required · To identify instructor resources for short-notice or specialist courses as required · To ensure all UK classrooms are suitably equipped and maintained · To assist in planning the class schedule and allocate dates for classes and allocate classrooms at least 6 months in advance · To assist in allocating instructoe resources to classes at least 3 months ahead and maintain this schedule on a weekly basis · To assist in identifying and recruiting contract instructors as and when necessary to ensure an adequate supply of instructors is available · To feedback any recommendations for raising awareness of Red Hat's training provision · To interface with other Red Hat customer facing staff on customer training requirements: meetings, presentations, recommendations This role is based in the Red Hat Europe UK Training Centre, Guildford, Surrey, England. Most classes are run in Guildford however some European travel could be required. Required skills: Minimum of 2 years in a Technical training role, preferably Unix or Linux. Lene Jensen, Red Hat -- 10 Alan Turing Road | Tel: +441483734926 | Did you know Red Hat can offer Guildford | Fax: +441483574944 | extensive support packages, and GU2 7YF, UK | Mob: +447799844842 | has a Certification Programme? http://www.europe.redhat.com/training/ -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] IRC Chat
by MJ Ray 21 Jan '01

21 Jan '01

MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> writes: > Well, it depends what you're using... in the console, epic is probably > the best; graphically, X-Chat for Gnome and kvIRC for KDE, I think. Would someone like to write a brief introduction to IRC for the website? (Yes, Brett, if it's you, you can plug your script...) -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Linux and Music
by MJ Ray 21 Jan '01

21 Jan '01

Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> writes: > I remember someone from the user group mentioning that he was > interested in music applications for Linux but despite looking back > over the last few months of mailing list archives I haven't discovered > who. I am, but more from sound tracking and editing. I've just built "Snd", which is a simple wave editor and mixer now ported to GTK and scriptable. It seems quite good so far, if not the easiest to use. Guess I ought to read the manual ;-) http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/CCRMA/Software/snd/snd.html Sorry, so I can't really help with your other questions, other than suggesting http://www.linuxsound.at/ as a starting point. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Linux Help
by MJ Ray 21 Jan '01

21 Jan '01

kerin <kerin.westgate(a)virgin.net> writes: > I've just got my X-Chat to work, so i thought I'd see what was about, I > visited a Linux Help channel, and could not believe what i saw, [...] What "Linux Help channel"? I'd be amazed if linpeople ever did what you said. If you're on about #linux on IRCnet or EFNet, then they are most definitely *not* help channels, just places for linux freaks to hang out. Sometimes you can get help there, but it's not to be recommended. > Its the same as taking a car to a garage and the mechanic saying to > you go bye a book and repair it your self, No, it's the same as taking your broken car into the pub and people telling you to get a book or take it to the mechanic. ;-) > how can the Linux world expect to encourage new users with answers > like that, when with "Windows" all you have to do is look through > the yellow pages and you will find someone to help you despite all > the help pages that are written. Kerin Isn't the fact that there is such a huge trade in Windows support trying to tell you something about the difficulty of maintaining a largely undocumented and obfuscated system? I think so. Linux may not be as shiny and polished, but at least you can find out what it all does... just not from the pub. -- MJR

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Current workings of the list...
by Brett Parker 21 Jan '01

21 Jan '01

Mark, Just a quick question, why did you change the config of the list so that the reply-to stopped working? I liked it more the other way, any one else? Cheers, Brett

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Re: [Alug] Ann: ALUG 2001.1
by David Freeman 21 Jan '01

21 Jan '01

Is there anybody going from Ipswich/Martlesham who would be able to give a very small person and their computer a lift to syleham? I will be bringing my computer, atleast one 8 port hub and a few network leads/power. What facilities are at syleham? the �10, is that �10 each, or �10 between us all? Thanks D --- John Woodard <mail(a)johnwoodard.co.uk> wrote: > Here is the official announcement of the next ALUG meeting (ALUG > 2001.1) > which will be at Syleham Village Hall, Syleham, Suffolk on Sunday 4th > Feb > 2001 2:00 - 6:00 pm. > > Venue details at http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/venues/syleham.html. > > The hall will cost us a tenner again, which is still pretty cheap, so > contributions on the day will be most welcome. > > Syleham and Wingfield Computer Club have said they will provide tea > and > coffee again which is nice of them. > > If you're coming post to the list with any suggestions or assistance > you > need. > > I'll post to relevant Usenet groups later any suggestions to which > ones that > are appropriate. I thought: > > uk.local.eastanglia > uk.comp.os.linux > linux.announce > > any others? > > Cheers, > BJ > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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