So I have been playing a little with Ruby on Rails. I have it up and running and it works in a way but I'm totally unconvinced that it's the answer to the ultimate question - or even the answer to writing database apps for the web. Here's one little bit of code from a *very simple* tutorial example:- <html> <head> <title>My todo list</title> </head> <body> Not done:<br /> <%= display_items(@not_done) %> <p> <hr size=3> <p> Done:<br /> <%= display_items(@done) %> <hr size=3> <form method="post" action="add_item"> New item: <%= text_field("new_item", "description") %> <input type="submit" value="Add item"> </form> </body> </html> If that's either structured or object oriented then I'm a purple hippopotamus! :-) I think the fundamental problem is that HTML is a mess, until such time as that can be hidden somehow then I think we're stuck with rubbish like the above. I was hoping that Ruby on Rails helped hide some of the above junk but apparently not. Sorry - just felt like a bit of a rant! :-) -- Chris Green (chris@halon.org.uk)