Thanks to everyone who replied.
hangon, if you think Alug should be doing this and doing that why are you moaning about it and not doing anything?
I can't do anything as I see myself as the pupil here. Do you mean I should be organising a venue? Alug seem to have this reasonable sorted, at least I've been to Syleham, Elmswell, King's Lynn, Norwich. Do you mean I should be badgering members to act as lecturers? I don't think I'm able to. I would hope that this request would encourage knowledgeable members (only you know if you have the knowledge and skills to do this) to come forward and perhaps volunteer to help train some beginners.
Their are many people here who are willing to to give talks etc.
Great. If this is so please get together with one or other of the main Alug organisers to see if a program of instruction or lectures could be arranged.
but until someone asks for them they are not likely to do them
That's what I'm doing - asking for them. I also saw some suggestions before Christmas on this mail list of the possibility of lecture or talks being started early this year. So I've waited to see if any of these came about. You're now debating if you can 'educate' students / school teachers? I'm asking on behalf of home users.
because of a lack of a perceived need and because they are busy working on other things.
Lack of perceived need? If no one else on this list supports me then you may be right. But that conclusion won't get Linux thriving in East Anglia will it? Members here have talked about crusading on behalf of Linux. I'm suggesting one possible avenue to further that.
Busy working. Yes, we all are. Of course I'm not demanding anyone gets involved here who hasn't the time and expertise, and the willingness to pass on their knowledge.
The meetings are not really "disorganised" either, they are a bunch of geeks/hackers/linux users/friends who like to meet up every couple of months to talk about computers and other crap, in some ways they are deliberatly disorganised as even without a formal agenda we always end up locked out of the venue standing around talking in the cold because we run out of time.
Hey, I've got no problem with this. You've every right to do precisely what you want at these meetings. If as a group you outwardly appear too professional, then perhaps you frighten away many possibly interested members of the public. This may deter beginners, not encourage them.
If anyone comes to us with a specific need or topic they need a talk on then we will try and arrange something.
I could quote you quite a few. But I'd rather ALUG set up a series of tutorials - maybe an hour at the beginning of a meeting - dedicated to a topic to help beginners. Or perhaps at another time if you want to keep the proceeding separate. Or would ten of the knowledgeable users give up a Saturday morning, or a couple of hours one evening, to get a series of lectures going? If you need subject suggestions, I'm happy to list a few.
If you find the meetings a waste of time why do you come to them?
It's fair to give everything a chance, and I have over more than six months. If I hadn't bothered to travel to any, you'd rightly criticise that. I'm merely saying that there seems little reason for me to attend any more of these gatherings unless I have a better idea in advance what can be got out of it.
Many of us also work directly with spreading the word and the software, indeed all my previous jobs have seen me spreading Linux and free software where possible within companies and organisations.
It seems to me that getting a Linux box, and a Linux OS with it or loaded onto it is the least of the problems. What is needed is help thereafter, using it to it's full potential.
I'll leave the last few sections, as that probably won't help, but thanks Adam for your comments.
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Well, what can you do to help fix it? It sounds as though you have some clear ideas about what you'd like to see happen at a meeting, . . . but maybe it needs more planned activities and more circulation. How to organise that?
Well, perhaps the Alug web site would help here. If the user group organised a series of lectures, then it should be publicised as widely as possible. On the web site. A5 leaflets in computer stores if they're agreeable, leaflets to schools / colleges. Give us a file to download from the web site, we each print out 100 or so at home. Leave some with local computer businesses. We all live near to some of these. I'll walk about and deliver some in Dereham if ALUG has a firm plan and publishes it a few weeks / months in advance. If no one registers to book a place at these lectures, well cancel the whole idea and there's only a little wasted effort or expense, but probably on the plus side the benefit of getting some exercise. But you need a thought out viable program up front to start with.
All of this would welcome help, I think.
Fair enough. You say you are fairly well organised administratively, and as I have little Linux experience or group knowledge it's difficult to see where I can help. But I appreciate that if I'm to benefit from your knowledge, then I must contribute. I'm happy to. I'm on the committee of two other 'pastime' societies, so feel I am repaying them for previous and current support. If I can help Alug I'm willing to give it a shot.
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My point is that you get away with not learning about a windows PC not because it works without having to do so but that you can't anyway mostly.
I'd quite happy to find fault with Windows and agree it's infuriating at times. Hence my toe in the water of Linux. I also agree that because we've grown up with Windows, knowledge about using the system has been acquired gradually over the years, just sufficient to do what we want. But a change over to Linux is not the same as an getting the next newer version of Windows. There's a lot of differences, and some training would get the show on the road much much quicker. The availability of this type of support would encourage a lot to think about Linux more seriously.
In further addition to this, if people do want specific Linux training then there are people around on this list who will do it for you, of course it will not be free, and it will probably not be cheap.
You're correct that there are quite a few expensive courses out there - I've seen £1675 for a 5 day Linux course. But I don't want to be a system administrator. I want to use a home computer. Companies who offer these courses know the individual isn't paying, his employer is, hence the price.
There are also some quite modest ones - one I saw was in the order of £80 for a day's 'introduction to Linux' at Bromley college, and if my request peters out here then I'll probably think about that one. If anyone knows of courses closer to East Anglia not targeting system admins or costing many hundreds per day, then I'd be grateful if you can point me at them. I did a 6 month long one day a week course at Norwich City College a year ago. If they offered the same for Linux, I'd sign up. The course had about 20 others on it, so it's not unreasonable to suppose that a Linux and related subjects course might interest quite a few as well.
But what's so terrible about paying for a course? I don't expect something for nothing. If you managed to get 10 beginners together for a day and each contributed a small fee, then you'd have quite a useful recompense even allowing for provision of computers and some travel expenses - or scale this for an evening etc.
It would be quite acceptable for someone to post on the list and offer to pay or ask for a complete training course.
This sounds like a 'one to one', and of course that would be expensive. So would a 'complete' course, and that implies decent training manuals and course notes, and would be time consuming for the trainer to set up and run. I'm thinking about a group, gathered around a computer or three, seeing a demo, taking notes themselves if they want to, maybe between 5 and 15 at a time?
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In the past, I remember informal demos being some of the most useful bits, but they're haphazard and unstructured. I'm not suggesting anything really demanding, but a bit of background material put up and some advance warning about what will be there.
Yes, great. I'd go for that as well. Choose a piece of software, and give half an hour about the basics, then take a Q&A on it, or allow a bit of hands on. Sounds good. Again, I'm happy to suggest a few for the list.
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The best way to get more out of the meetings is to get involved, post to the List or Wiki with topics/talks/requests you would like to see at a meeting and see if there are any members who are willing to assist.
I'll wait for further reaction to this reply first, but if a list of subjects is needed I'll post one. Most of this will be pretty obvious, but I hope I'm past the point where it bothers me too much to admit my ignorance. I hope others in a similar position or sharing this view will also post to this list. If they don't, then I will have to conclude what I'm after really isn't required - as has been suggested.
My reason for raising this subject was the huge number of messages on this list about Microsoft overcharging for software. This topic then drifted onto how to educate / get schools into the Linux camp. I'm jumping onto this bandwagon to champion a similar approach for the public. If this is not your remit then I'll say no more.
Colin
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