I've been using Linux for a long time. I started out playing with RedHat around 25y ago but having been burnt by some RPM dependency issues that horribly broke a server (and not just once) I have been on Ubuntu since around 2005 and therefore far more comfortable with .deb/Apt.
Recent Ubuntu versions have gone off in some odd directions. I actually didn't mind Unity (didn't love it either) but have never got on with Gnome 3. I'm currently running Kubuntu on my desktop (my first attempt to use KDE as my daily driver) and I'm getting on OK with it.
Where I seem to get stuck frequently now is with Ubuntu's move towards Snaps, mostly due to the arguable reasonable sandboxing design just getting in my way all the time.
So I'm wondering whether it's time to take a step back and reconsider my options. I assume that RedHat derived distros should no longer scare me because of packaging issues, but maybe the whole CentOS saga should be enough to keep me away? I use Debian quite a lot on things like headless Raspberry Pis but I like that Ubuntu tends to be more up to date. Should I grow a pair and look at Gentoo/Arch or their derivatives? Should I pick something like Mint? I quite like the idea of a rolling distro but maybe experience would change that.
I guess my priority is "low hassle" - I'm not looking to spend my time playing with Linux just to get a job done. If there's software I need to install I want a decent chance of being able to do that without lots of extra work because I picked a niche distro that the developer/packager never considered. But I'm far more likely to be installing stuff from a terminal than a GUI, I'm not particularly looking for "user friendly". I guess "power user", with equal emphasis on both those words (I want something to use, not tinker with). Really that's why I keep defaulting to Ubuntu, but even that's getting in my way more often than it used to.
On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 10:48:58 +0000 Mark Rogers mark@more-solutions.co.uk allegedly wrote:
I've been using Linux for a long time. I started out playing with RedHat around 25y ago but having been burnt by some RPM dependency issues that horribly broke a server (and not just once) I have been on Ubuntu since around 2005 and therefore far more comfortable with .deb/Apt.
Mark
Take a look at MXLinux. Like you, I don't like the way Ubuntu is going (and I actually stopped using it in favour of Mint some long time ago). But I really, really, don't like systemd so I moved to MXLinux because you can install it without all that horrible cruft.
MX is Debian based so you can stick with your apt installation mechanisms.
Mick
--------------------------------------------------------------------- Mick Morgan gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 blog: baldric.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------
On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 at 12:04, mick mbm@rlogin.net wrote:
But I really, really, don't like systemd so I moved to MXLinux because you can install it without all that horrible cruft.
I've grown used to systemd now and wouldn't really want to move away from it. I definitely dislike it in principle (do one job and do it well, etc) but I have become familiar with the unit files and as it's the default pretty much everywhere these days I lost any interest in fighting against the tide. I preferred Ubuntu's Upstart but since even they gave up the fight I did too!
I see that MX does have systemd but disables it by default though. So that's not a show stopper for me.
What are the arguments in favour of sysvinit over systemd, beyond the one I mentioned? I'm surprised that upstart didn't replace sysvinit for those who dislike systemd. -- Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0344 251 1450 Registered in England (0456 0902) 21 Drakes Mews, Milton Keynes, MK8 0ER
On 29/01/2024 10:48, Mark Rogers wrote:
I've been using Linux for a long time. I started out playing with RedHat around 25y ago but having been burnt by some RPM dependency issues that horribly broke a server (and not just once) I have been on Ubuntu since around 2005 and therefore far more comfortable with .deb/Apt.
That's exactly why I left SuSE about 24 years ago! Dependencies in rpms... I now run Ubuntu on my servers, having got there via Gentoo. I loved Gentoo, but the sheer time involved in managing multiple servers dragged me under in the end.
For a desktop, which by your mention of Unity it seems you're looking for, I can't recommend Linux Mint Cinnamon enough. I've been using it as my daily driver for more than 10 years now, and it just keeps getting better.
It used to be Ubuntu-based, but they too have had it with the direction it's taking, and - I'm pretty sure this is the case - they are switching to a Debian back-end. They also totally rewrote Gnome 3, and they got fed up with that too.
In 3 flavours (Cinnamon, MATE and Xfce) I highly recommend you give it a go. I prefer Cinnamon by a mile, BTW.
Cheers, Laurie.
On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 13:55:37 +0000 Mark Rogers mark@more-solutions.co.uk allegedly wrote:
What are the arguments in favour of sysvinit over systemd, beyond the one I mentioned? I'm surprised that upstart didn't replace sysvinit for those who dislike systemd.
Mark
I covered my reasons for dropping systemd in a blog pots here:
https://baldric.net/2022/02/03/no-systemd/
and my reasons for moving to MX here:
https://baldric.net/2022/10/09/systemd-free/
Mick
--------------------------------------------------------------------- Mick Morgan gpg fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312 blog: baldric.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------
On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 at 16:35, Laurie Brown laurie@brownowl.com wrote:
That's exactly why I left SuSE about 24 years ago! Dependencies in rpms... I now run Ubuntu on my servers, having got there via Gentoo.
I'm still running Ubuntu on servers but the annoyances haven't really hit me there. Sooner or later I'm going to find that things I need are going to have shifted to snaps but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it!
For a desktop, which by your mention of Unity it seems you're looking for, I can't recommend Linux Mint Cinnamon enough. I've been using it as my daily driver for more than 10 years now, and it just keeps getting better.
Yes desktop - for now anyway although I use Ubuntu on servers as much because I run it on my desktop as the other way around, so we'll see.
I'm going to have to give Cinnamon a proper go. How well will it behave in a VM for testing? (I can give it plenty of RAM/CPU).
On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 at 16:38, mick mbm@rlogin.net wrote:
I covered my reasons for dropping systemd in a blog pots here:
I mostly agree with your reasons for not liking systemd. My issue is that sysvinit isn't great either - it was good in its day but there's a lot to be gained by having greater control over service dependencies that sysv gives. I would much prefer that upstart had won the sysvinit replacement "competition" but that didn't happen. (Similarly I'm not sure that Wayland is the right replacement for X, but it's what we've got.)
and my reasons for moving to MX here:
Useful, thanks. Not least because until you mentioned it I'd not heard of it, so it's weird to discover it's the most popular distro at distrowatch. Clearly I've had my eyes closed for some time!
On 30/01/2024 12:08, Mark Rogers wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 at 16:35, Laurie Brown <laurie@brownowl.com mailto:laurie@brownowl.com> wrote:
That's exactly why I left SuSE about 24 years ago! Dependencies in rpms... I now run Ubuntu on my servers, having got there via Gentoo.I'm still running Ubuntu on servers but the annoyances haven't really hit me there. Sooner or later I'm going to find that things I need are going to have shifted to snaps but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it!
Yes, my thoughts entirely...
For a desktop, which by your mention of Unity it seems you're looking for, I can't recommend Linux Mint Cinnamon enough. I've been using it as my daily driver for more than 10 years now, and it just keeps getting better.Yes desktop - for now anyway although I use Ubuntu on servers as much because I run it on my desktop as the other way around, so we'll see.
I'm going to have to give Cinnamon a proper go. How well will it behave in a VM for testing? (I can give it plenty of RAM/CPU).
I last used it on LMC 21.2 and it seemed fine, although I didn't drive it that hard. There are some non-serious Vbox flags raised in 21.3 though:
https://www.linuxmint.com/rel_vanessa_cinnamon.php
Cheers, Laurie.
On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 at 13:19, Laurie Brown laurie@brownowl.com wrote:
I last used it on LMC 21.2 and it seemed fine, although I didn't drive it that hard. There are some non-serious Vbox flags raised in 21.3 though:
I've installed 21,3 OK in VBox, and had a quick play. One issue for me is the lack of a preview pane in the Nemo file browser, that's something I use a lot. There are workarounds though.
On 31/01/2024 11:39, Mark Rogers wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 at 13:19, Laurie Brown laurie@brownowl.com wrote:
I last used it on LMC 21.2 and it seemed fine, although I didn't drive it that hard. There are some non-serious Vbox flags raised in 21.3 though:
I've installed 21,3 OK in VBox, and had a quick play. One issue for me is the lack of a preview pane in the Nemo file browser, that's something I use a lot. There are workarounds though.
There are configurable thumbnails, and a lot of extensions and plugins in Nemo. They can easily be installed in the Synaptic Package Manager, and enabled as required. I'm not sure if there's one that does what you want, but it's worth looking.
There are also other file managers available, and it's really easy to set defaults and manage menus.
Cheers, Laurie.
On Wed, 31 Jan 2024 at 14:24, Laurie Brown laurie@brownowl.com wrote:
There are configurable thumbnails, and a lot of extensions and plugins in Nemo.
My use case is having a directory full of invoices in PDF (and other images formats), and needing to look quickly at each one to record the date and value. With Dolphin (and for that matter Windows Explorer) it's trivial to split the file viewer window such that half my screen is taken up by the preview, making it easy to read the details. Once the details have been extracted the files are then moved into the appropriate directory (which is probably in a different file browser tab).
Nemo doesn't seem to have this capability - there is the pop-up you get from hitting the space bar which is a partial solution but not quite as good as a preview pane (and there seem to be several others looking for this functionality in Nemo).
As you say there are other file managers available which don't require me to switch O/S though.
On 31/01/2024 19:11, Mark Rogers wrote:
[SNIP]
As you say there are other file managers available which don't require me to switch O/S though.
I'm unclear as to what you mean here as I thought you were planning to switch anyway, but Mint supports many file managers OOTB. I don't know which one you're using, but it probably runs on Mint.
I'm not sure it's what you want as it's a bit clunky, but the nemo-preview plugin works. Click on the file and hit space. It doesn't work on multiple files though.
Cheers, Laurie.
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Laurie Brown -
Mark Rogers -
mick