I'm considering upgrading my mobile.
Having been with Nokia for most of my mobile life, I'm getting frustrated with their phones firmware (great when you first use them, but like Windows they just get slower and slower with use; it now takes me several seconds to open the Messaging application on my N82). And I've never had any real joy connecting the Nokia to my Linux box.
I'm considering Samsung phones (in particular the Pixon) but have never used Samsung before. Can anyone give me any advice as to how well I'll be able to connect my phone to my Linux box?
Googling for "Linux Samsung Pixon" got me nowhere (nothing relevant, not even people trying, never mind succeeding or failing!)
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 09:45:21AM +0100, Mark Rogers wrote:
I'm considering upgrading my mobile.
Having been with Nokia for most of my mobile life, I'm getting frustrated with their phones firmware (great when you first use them, but like Windows they just get slower and slower with use; it now takes me several seconds to open the Messaging application on my N82). And I've never had any real joy connecting the Nokia to my Linux box.
<AOL> Me too. </AOL>
It can be done, I have had my Nokia E71 synchronized with Evolution via the Funambol server at ScheduleWorld. (You can also use myFunambol.com or install Funambol on your own system) However it's not perfect and I don't really want to have to synchronize two clients with a server, why can't I (as I would usually in Windows) synchronize from phone to desktop.
What I *actually* do now is sychronize my E71 with my Windows XP guest machine running in VirtualBox.
I'm considering Samsung phones (in particular the Pixon) but have never used Samsung before. Can anyone give me any advice as to how well I'll be able to connect my phone to my Linux box?
Googling for "Linux Samsung Pixon" got me nowhere (nothing relevant, not even people trying, never mind succeeding or failing!)
What OS does Samsung use? That's really what decides whether it's easy to connect to Linux or not.
Chris G wrote:
It can be done, I have had my Nokia E71 synchronized with Evolution via the Funambol server at ScheduleWorld.
I've never been a big fan of synchronisation, since usually that's not what I want. Synchronising contacts and calendar may be useful but the biggest issues I have are in archiving phone content to my PC to free up my phone's memory.
Specifically, the reason the N82 is slow is because I don't delete the majority of my text messages, and currently have several thousand stored on the phone from the past few years (some migrated from earlier phones). Ideally that archive would be on my PC not my phone, but even with Windows I've never found a good way to do this, and the nature of the protocols involved seem to make it very difficult for FOSS alternatives to get access to the content. (What I would love is an IMAP server application for the phone which makes messages available as IMAP folders that I can access from my PC and move to local storage as required.)
The other thing I use the phone for a lot is as a camera (which is why I'm looking at the phones I mentioned). So getting photos and video off the phone onto the PC easily is the other requirement. Just plugging the phone in via USB makes the N82 available as a USB drive, but for some reason only the internal memory is accessible this way - all the content is on the memory card which I can't access. So I have to take the memory card out of the phone and use a card reader to access the content.
I figure what I am looking for is two things: (a) a manufacturer who is open enough to not try to stop anyone accessing their own data on their own phone except by using the manufacturer's applications which only do what they want and only on platforms they support, and (b) a sufficiently popular phone platform that there is FOSS software out there which takes advantage of (a).
What OS does Samsung use? That's really what decides whether it's easy to connect to Linux or not.
Not sure. It isn't Windows mobile, that I do know.
The N82 is Symbian based.
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Mark Rogers wrote:
Chris G wrote:
What OS does Samsung use? That's really what decides whether it's easy to connect to Linux or not.
Samsung generally uses a proprietary OS - nothing specific shows up on WURFLpro for the Samsung M8800 (Pixon):
http://www.wurflpro.com/device/show/24986
Mark Rogers wrote:
The girlfriend's Sony Ericsson seems much better, although as yet untested with a large message archive.
You'd be surprised how many phones have limited SMS storage, regardless of the amount of memory available (some, like the early Moto V3s, store as few as 100 before being "full"). I seem to recall that many SEs have relatively low limits (in the hundreds though).
Nokias, for their faults, generally treat SMS storage as constrained by the available phone memory (minus other stored objects like emails, drafts and sent messages) - my E65 currently has around a thousand messages in its SMS inbox, and I don't recall ever filling up my old 6600 - despite having several years' messages on it.
Hth,
Simon
- -- ====================================================================== Simon Ransome, Senior Engineer http://taptu.com Taptu Ltd 140 Science Park, Milton Road, Cambridge CB4 0GF
simon ransome wrote:
You'd be surprised how many phones have limited SMS storage, regardless of the amount of memory available (some, like the early Moto V3s, store as few as 100 before being "full"). I seem to recall that many SEs have relatively low limits (in the hundreds though).
Hmm, that'll be interesting - the GF will want to keep all her texts too. The only reason she's not got thousands already is that the previous lot are stuck on her old Nokia...
Nokias, for their faults, generally treat SMS storage as constrained by the available phone memory (minus other stored objects like emails, drafts and sent messages)
That's fine (and how it should be) but it would appear from the speed of operation that moving around the messaging application requires it to rescan the mailbox (which presumable - again based on speed - is not indexed).
With the capabilities of the phone hardware, a properly indexed searchable SMS database should be possible; it should be trivial to find messages received from a certain person, for example.
But as previously mentioned, the archive should be on my PC not my phone. I just can't find a way to do that (Windows or Linux).
Is anyone using Wammu that can give me some idea how good it is? It doesn't support Nokia phones (at least not the ones I have) so I've no idea if I should be focusing on phones it supports or not. The Samsung Pixon and SE C905 are both supported.
I have Samsung and Nokia, can see both in Fedora. The Samsung though, I had to go in and change a setting on the phone so it could be seen as a memory card.
You say the E series aren't suitable cos you use a camera. The new E71 has a camera built in now. I got one recently and was pleasantly surprised at all the extra's that are now built in, that were missing on my E61.
Neil
On Wed, 2009-04-29 at 12:16 +0100, Mark Rogers wrote:
simon ransome wrote:
You'd be surprised how many phones have limited SMS storage, regardless of the amount of memory available (some, like the early Moto V3s, store as few as 100 before being "full"). I seem to recall that many SEs have relatively low limits (in the hundreds though).
Hmm, that'll be interesting - the GF will want to keep all her texts too. The only reason she's not got thousands already is that the previous lot are stuck on her old Nokia...
Nokias, for their faults, generally treat SMS storage as constrained by the available phone memory (minus other stored objects like emails, drafts and sent messages)
That's fine (and how it should be) but it would appear from the speed of operation that moving around the messaging application requires it to rescan the mailbox (which presumable - again based on speed - is not indexed).
With the capabilities of the phone hardware, a properly indexed searchable SMS database should be possible; it should be trivial to find messages received from a certain person, for example.
But as previously mentioned, the archive should be on my PC not my phone. I just can't find a way to do that (Windows or Linux).
Is anyone using Wammu that can give me some idea how good it is? It doesn't support Nokia phones (at least not the ones I have) so I've no idea if I should be focusing on phones it supports or not. The Samsung Pixon and SE C905 are both supported.
Neil Cordner wrote:
I have Samsung and Nokia, can see both in Fedora. The Samsung though, I had to go in and change a setting on the phone so it could be seen as a memory card.
Are we talking about seeing them as USB drives, or are you using other software? If USB drives, do you see internal memory and memory card? If other software, what are you using?
You say the E series aren't suitable cos you use a camera. The new E71 has a camera built in now. I got one recently and was pleasantly surprised at all the extra's that are now built in, that were missing on my E61.
My N82 has a 5M-pixel camera, Xenon flash, etc. The quality of the photos it takes are in many cases better than my old Kodak 7Mpix digi-camera (the only ones the camera is best for are when I need to use zoom), and the video is much better than my old camcorder. The newer phones I'm looking at have 8Mpix cameras (which I know isn't the best gauge of camera quality), and several camera features (face/smile detect etc).
The E71 has a camera, but would be a step backwards from the N82 and it's really a feature I use a lot to capture photos and videos of family etc.
This is just to see as USB drives. I can see internal memory and memory card.
If you're looking for a good quality camera then the Samsungs are the best I've found in a phone. The E71 is definately not as good as my Samsung Soul, but is good enough for what I want.
On Wed, 2009-04-29 at 13:41 +0100, Mark Rogers wrote:
Neil Cordner wrote:
I have Samsung and Nokia, can see both in Fedora. The Samsung though, I had to go in and change a setting on the phone so it could be seen as a memory card.
Are we talking about seeing them as USB drives, or are you using other software? If USB drives, do you see internal memory and memory card? If other software, what are you using?
You say the E series aren't suitable cos you use a camera. The new E71 has a camera built in now. I got one recently and was pleasantly surprised at all the extra's that are now built in, that were missing on my E61.
My N82 has a 5M-pixel camera, Xenon flash, etc. The quality of the photos it takes are in many cases better than my old Kodak 7Mpix digi-camera (the only ones the camera is best for are when I need to use zoom), and the video is much better than my old camcorder. The newer phones I'm looking at have 8Mpix cameras (which I know isn't the best gauge of camera quality), and several camera features (face/smile detect etc).
The E71 has a camera, but would be a step backwards from the N82 and it's really a feature I use a lot to capture photos and videos of family etc.
Neil Cordner wrote:
If you're looking for a good quality camera then the Samsungs are the best I've found in a phone. The E71 is definately not as good as my Samsung Soul, but is good enough for what I want.
Thanks, that's just the kind of help I'm after!
Have you tried using any Linux tools with the Samsung (eg Wammu)?
I haven't tried any tools with it. Just moved and accessed files.
On Wed, 2009-04-29 at 13:54 +0100, Mark Rogers wrote:
Neil Cordner wrote:
If you're looking for a good quality camera then the Samsungs are the best I've found in a phone. The E71 is definately not as good as my Samsung Soul, but is good enough for what I want.
Thanks, that's just the kind of help I'm after!
Have you tried using any Linux tools with the Samsung (eg Wammu)?
On Wed, 2009-04-29 at 13:46 +0100, Neil Cordner wrote:
This is just to see as USB drives. I can see internal memory and memory card.
If you're looking for a good quality camera then the Samsungs are the best I've found in a phone. The E71 is definately not as good as my Samsung Soul, but is good enough for what I want.
Yes the E71 is more of a phone with a camera than a cameraphone. The camera is okish for emergency use in decent lighting conditions but the built in flash is next to useless and about the only thing it does well is macro mode.
I just pull of photos via OBEX bluetooth file transfer from the Bluetooh icon in Ubuntu..works equally well for stuff saved to either the built in flash or the card slot.
With CSR chipset BT radios now being about the same price as a replacement USB lead I don't think I have ever plugged my phone physically into anything other than a charger.
Wayne Stallwood wrote:
With CSR chipset BT radios now being about the same price as a replacement USB lead I don't think I have ever plugged my phone physically into anything other than a charger.
Interesting - I had some many problems with BT in the past (a few years ago under Windows) I've always avoided it like the plague (or Mexican flu). Maybe time to have another go at it.
On Wed, 2009-04-29 at 14:13 +0100, Mark Rogers wrote:
Interesting - I had some many problems with BT in the past (a few years ago under Windows) I've always avoided it like the plague (or Mexican flu). Maybe time to have another go at it.
Oh under windows it is still a pain...all seems to just work on ubuntu for me though.
I remember last time I tried bluetooth on Windows I needed the toshiba stack to talk to a device using the handsfree profile but that stack broke my ability to sync my old windows mobile. You can't have two stacks loaded unless you have 2 radios and changing the stack seemed to require a reboot..not fun
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 11:08:33AM +0100, Mark Rogers wrote:
Chris G wrote:
It can be done, I have had my Nokia E71 synchronized with Evolution via the Funambol server at ScheduleWorld.
I've never been a big fan of synchronisation, since usually that's not what I want. Synchronising contacts and calendar may be useful but the biggest issues I have are in archiving phone content to my PC to free up my phone's memory.
Specifically, the reason the N82 is slow is because I don't delete the majority of my text messages, and currently have several thousand stored on the phone from the past few years (some migrated from earlier phones). Ideally that archive would be on my PC not my phone, but even with Windows I've never found a good way to do this, and the nature of the protocols involved seem to make it very difficult for FOSS alternatives to get access to the content. (What I would love is an IMAP server application for the phone which makes messages available as IMAP folders that I can access from my PC and move to local storage as required.)
The other thing I use the phone for a lot is as a camera (which is why I'm looking at the phones I mentioned). So getting photos and video off the phone onto the PC easily is the other requirement. Just plugging the phone in via USB makes the N82 available as a USB drive, but for some reason only the internal memory is accessible this way - all the content is on the memory card which I can't access. So I have to take the memory card out of the phone and use a card reader to access the content.
I *think* the memory card on my Nokia E71 does appear as a USB drive, I'll have a play.
I figure what I am looking for is two things: (a) a manufacturer who is open enough to not try to stop anyone accessing their own data on their own phone except by using the manufacturer's applications which only do what they want and only on platforms they support, and (b) a sufficiently popular phone platform that there is FOSS software out there which takes advantage of (a).
What OS does Samsung use? That's really what decides whether it's easy to connect to Linux or not.
Not sure. It isn't Windows mobile, that I do know.
The N82 is Symbian based.
Like all Nokia, at least for the past few years.
Mark Rogers wrote:
I'm considering Samsung phones (in particular the Pixon)
PS: I'm also considering the LG range (eg Renoir) as they have Wi-Fi too. So any experience of LG phones and Linux also welcomed!
On Wed, 2009-04-29 at 09:45 +0100, Mark Rogers wrote:
I'm considering upgrading my mobile.
Having been with Nokia for most of my mobile life, I'm getting frustrated with their phones firmware (great when you first use them, but like Windows they just get slower and slower with use; it now takes me several seconds to open the Messaging application on my N82). And I've never had any real joy connecting the Nokia to my Linux box.
The trick with Nokia's is to get something from the E (business) range and avoid the N (consumer) range. As they tend to be more robust (both in terms of software and hardware).
I don't think my E71 has ever crashed or shown any signs of slowdown despite having a boatload of 3rd party apps installed.
Not sure about linux sync. I think it was possible via evolution wasn't it ? Mine erm *cough* syncs everything over the network to an Exchange server.
Wayne Stallwood wrote:
The trick with Nokia's is to get something from the E (business) range and avoid the N (consumer) range. As they tend to be more robust (both in terms of software and hardware).
I make extensive use of the phone's camera so the E* range aren't suitable.
I don't think my E71 has ever crashed or shown any signs of slowdown despite having a boatload of 3rd party apps installed.
The number of apps isn't the issue - I don't install many. It's (primarily) the number of text messages I have archived on it. This has been a problem with every Nokia I've owned.
I just timed it: opening the messaging application (to get to the main menu with new message, Inbox, etc) took about 10s. If I'm foolish enough to open the My Folders folder (where I have archived messages in 4 sub folders) it took 2.5mins to show the folder list, and then takes about 20s to cursor between folders (that's not to go into the folder, just to move the cursor down over one). That is just plain ridiculous, and is clearly down to the quality of the messaging application.
Add to that the brain dead predictive text implementation (which is so out of date compared with phones from other manufacturers) and I have to conclude that Nokia have given up innovating on the software side completely.
The girlfriend's Sony Ericsson seems much better, although as yet untested with a large message archive.
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 11:20:07AM +0100, Mark Rogers wrote:
Wayne Stallwood wrote:
The trick with Nokia's is to get something from the E (business) range and avoid the N (consumer) range. As they tend to be more robust (both in terms of software and hardware).
I make extensive use of the phone's camera so the E* range aren't suitable.
I don't think my E71 has ever crashed or shown any signs of slowdown despite having a boatload of 3rd party apps installed.
The number of apps isn't the issue - I don't install many. It's (primarily) the number of text messages I have archived on it. This has been a problem with every Nokia I've owned.
The thing that really annoys/confuses me on my E71 is the totally random layout of applications/files/etc. There's no logic to it at all and no hierarchy. If there were just a few things in there it wouldn't be too bad but on the E71 there is so much it's messy.
... and then the connection manager is rather confusing, in particular I still haven't really got my mind round how connections are handled. There seem to be connections and instances of connections but I'm not sure about that and I *am* sure it's confusing.
I just timed it: opening the messaging application (to get to the main menu with new message, Inbox, etc) took about 10s. If I'm foolish enough to open the My Folders folder (where I have archived messages in 4 sub folders) it took 2.5mins to show the folder list, and then takes about 20s to cursor between folders (that's not to go into the folder, just to move the cursor down over one). That is just plain ridiculous, and is clearly down to the quality of the messaging application.
Add to that the brain dead predictive text implementation (which is so out of date compared with phones from other manufacturers) and I have to conclude that Nokia have given up innovating on the software side completely.
The girlfriend's Sony Ericsson seems much better, although as yet untested with a large message archive.
-- Mark Rogers // More Solutions Ltd (Peterborough Office) // 0845 45 89 555 Registered in England (0456 0902) at 13 Clarke Rd, Milton Keynes, MK1 1LG
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On Wed, 2009-04-29 at 15:16 +0100, Chris G wrote:
The thing that really annoys/confuses me on my E71 is the totally random layout of applications/files/etc. There's no logic to it at all and no hierarchy. If there were just a few things in there it wouldn't be too bad but on the E71 there is so much it's messy.
Yeh the internal file structure is a bit all over the place..but I only tend to go to get photos and they are easy enough to find.
... and then the connection manager is rather confusing, in particular I still haven't really got my mind round how connections are handled. There seem to be connections and instances of connections but I'm not sure about that and I *am* sure it's confusing.
I don't think I ever use the connection manager...mine has an icon on the front page saying "Wlan scanning off" if I click that it gives me a list of available AP's which I can then connect to and start browsing from...otherwise it falls back to the mobile network and whatever is available there. Other stuff seems to just prompt for what connection to use if it is unsure...but usually you can set defaults.
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 11:00:55AM +0100, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
On Wed, 2009-04-29 at 09:45 +0100, Mark Rogers wrote:
I'm considering upgrading my mobile.
Having been with Nokia for most of my mobile life, I'm getting frustrated with their phones firmware (great when you first use them, but like Windows they just get slower and slower with use; it now takes me several seconds to open the Messaging application on my N82). And I've never had any real joy connecting the Nokia to my Linux box.
The trick with Nokia's is to get something from the E (business) range and avoid the N (consumer) range. As they tend to be more robust (both in terms of software and hardware).
I don't think my E71 has ever crashed or shown any signs of slowdown despite having a boatload of 3rd party apps installed.
Well that's certainly not true of mine. Several times it has go into a state where whatever you do it says "Out of memory, shut down some applications and try again". There were no applications running at all and checking memory showed loads of memory free. A reset sorted it out but bug-free it isn't. A Google search showed up lots of other people with the "Out of Memory" issue.
Not sure about linux sync. I think it was possible via evolution wasn't it ? Mine erm *cough* syncs everything over the network to an Exchange server.
Via a Funambol server.
On Wed, 2009-04-29 at 15:09 +0100, Chris G wrote:
I don't think my E71 has ever crashed or shown any signs of slowdown despite having a boatload of 3rd party apps installed.
Well that's certainly not true of mine. Several times it has go into a state where whatever you do it says "Out of memory, shut down some applications and try again". There were no applications running at all and checking memory showed loads of memory free. A reset sorted it out but bug-free it isn't. A Google search showed up lots of other people with the "Out of Memory" issue.
Never had that...and I use nokia maps, google maps, MFE, putty etc..what firmware version are you on ? 100.07.76 here
That said, mail for exchange replaces the default mail, calendar and tasks etc apps with exchange specific ones so maybe the problem lies there.
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 03:29:16PM +0100, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
On Wed, 2009-04-29 at 15:09 +0100, Chris G wrote:
I don't think my E71 has ever crashed or shown any signs of slowdown despite having a boatload of 3rd party apps installed.
Well that's certainly not true of mine. Several times it has go into a state where whatever you do it says "Out of memory, shut down some applications and try again". There were no applications running at all and checking memory showed loads of memory free. A reset sorted it out but bug-free it isn't. A Google search showed up lots of other people with the "Out of Memory" issue.
Never had that...and I use nokia maps, google maps, MFE, putty etc..what firmware version are you on ? 100.07.76 here
Where does it tell you what version it's running?
That said, mail for exchange replaces the default mail, calendar and tasks etc apps with exchange specific ones so maybe the problem lies there.
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Chris G -
Mark Rogers -
Neil Cordner -
simon ransome -
Wayne Stallwood