Hi Folks After installing RH8.0 over the weekend and getting really (and I mean *really) **** off with yet another compiler producing broken binaries, I think it's about time to look at another linux base. Some questions for the Gentoo experts (cos gentoo.org times out on me). Do I need an existing linux install as I would with Linux From Scratch ? What compiler does it use ? Does the gentoo CD come with sources for useable desktop environments such as KDE ? How long would it take to build a working system (complete with X and KDE) on a Duron 800MHz box ? Regards, Paul.
Paul wrote:
Hi Folks
After installing RH8.0 over the weekend and getting really (and I mean *really) **** off with yet another compiler producing broken binaries, I think it's about time to look at another linux base. Some questions for the Gentoo experts (cos gentoo.org times out on me).
Do I need an existing linux install as I would with Linux From Scratch ?
No, boot from CD and go for it.
What compiler does it use ?
1.2 uses GCC 2.95, 1.4 (still in beta but stable) uses V3
Does the gentoo CD come with sources for useable desktop environments such as KDE ?
No, one downloads everything from the net. Well, sort of everything, it depends on how much optimisation you want: there are pre-built binaries on the CD.
How long would it take to build a working system (complete with X and KDE) on a Duron 800MHz box ?
Quite a long time! The basic system takes about 4 hours on that sort of box, KDE and X? Well, I'd let it run overnight... Give it a try, you won't regret it! -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Laurie Brown laurie@brownowl.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Laurie Anything that uses gcc-3.xx is going to give me the same problems as RH8.0 (what about Gentoo 1.3a ?).. And with only having a slow dial up connection, it looks like Gentoo isn't going to give me what I want. One option might be to use the CD to build a base system and then rip the sources out from the RH source disks - A somewhat laborious task with no guarantee that it will work AND be stable. Regards, Paul. On Thursday 28 Nov 2002 11:50 pm, Laurie Brown wrote:
What compiler does it use ?
1.2 uses GCC 2.95, 1.4 (still in beta but stable) uses V3
Does the gentoo CD come with sources for useable desktop environments such as KDE ?
No, one downloads everything from the net. Well, sort of everything, it depends on how much optimisation you want: there are pre-built binaries on the CD.
On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Paul wrote:
Anything that uses gcc-3.xx is going to give me the same problems as RH8.0 (what about Gentoo 1.3a ?).. And with only having a slow dial up connection, it looks like Gentoo isn't going to give me what I want.
Hi Paul, What are the problems you're having with gcc3? I'm using gcc 3.04 on Mandrake 8.2 and have had no problems with anything it's compiled. Chris -- Chris *************************************************************************** E Mail Chris@glovercc.clara.co.uk WWW http://www.glovercc.clara.co.uk Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject. -Anon
On Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 10:51:58AM +0000, Chris Glover said:
What are the problems you're having with gcc3? I'm using gcc 3.04 on Mandrake 8.2 and have had no problems with anything it's compiled.
I'm running gcc3.2 in gentoo 1.4 and it's fine! *touchwood ;)* Also java was compiled on it last week and it is indeed very smooth on webpages among other stuff. Remember, there is always http://forums.gentoo.org to check out similar problems etc. Don't be afraid ;) -- Craig
Hi Chris The problem with gcc-3.2 is it does not compile a fully functional kernel with hard realtime patches incorporated. Without realtime working reliably, any install is nothing more than wasted disk space to me (nomex suit on). I know Debian uses gcc-2.95, but what an arcane and long winded process to do a simple install (fire extinguisher to hand). Using dselect or apt-get (and friends) is far from intuitive.. Sorry Mark. What I want is a system that I can run hard realtime applications on, and also build RPM packages for distribution. If I have to compile the whole system from the ground up, so be it - As long as I can build the RPMs along the way so that the installation can be replicated quickly and easily on another computer when needed. Regards, Paul. On Friday 29 Nov 2002 3:00 pm, Craig wrote:
On Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 10:51:58AM +0000, Chris Glover said:
What are the problems you're having with gcc3? I'm using gcc 3.04 on Mandrake 8.2 and have had no problems with anything it's compiled.
I'm running gcc3.2 in gentoo 1.4 and it's fine! *touchwood ;)*
On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Paul wrote:
What I want is a system that I can run hard realtime applications on, and also build RPM packages for distribution. If I have to compile the whole system from the ground up, so be it - As long as I can build the RPMs along the way so that the installation can be replicated quickly and easily on another computer when needed.
OK, I'm curious now, what real time stuff are you doing? Can I expect my plane taking me to Australia in April to have a penguin at the controls? :-) How about usin VxWorks? Chris -- Chris *************************************************************************** E Mail Chris@glovercc.clara.co.uk WWW http://www.glovercc.clara.co.uk Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject. -Anon
On Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 09:59:01PM +0000, Paul wrote:
do a simple install (fire extinguisher to hand). Using dselect or apt-get (and friends) is far from intuitive.. Sorry Mark.
apt-get and the other bits is the most intuitive package installation system available. dselect on the other hand is quite evil so don't use it :) rpms are a pain though as just the other day i had to start using --nodeps to install things and spent a couple of hours looking for bits online to make stuff work. Although apt-get for redhat is supposed to be very good, maybe I will give it a go soon. Adam -- "Step away from the Cathedral, This Bazaar is loaded" jabberid = quinophex@jabber.earth.li
Adam Bower wrote:
On Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 09:59:01PM +0000, Paul wrote:
do a simple install (fire extinguisher to hand). Using dselect or apt-get (and friends) is far from intuitive.. Sorry Mark.
apt-get and the other bits is the most intuitive package installation system available. dselect on the other hand is quite evil so don't use it :)
Er, gentoo's portage system is pretty good, IMO...
rpms are a pain though as just the other day i had to start using --nodeps to install things and spent a couple of hours looking for bits online to make stuff work. Although apt-get for redhat is supposed to be very good, maybe I will give it a go soon.
RPMs are the spawn of the devil! Cheers, Laurie. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Laurie Brown laurie@brownowl.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------
rpms are a pain though as just the other day i had to start using --nodeps to install things and spent a couple of hours looking for bits online to make stuff work.
As a linux beginner I have found Mandrake's urpmi very useful since it automatically handles finding and installing dependencies. From what I have read, the classic 'rpm' does sound much more tricky. Related question: does debian's "apt" include a way to find what .debs are available or do you have to know in detail what you want first? What I mean is, is it possible to search the list(s) of sources, perhaps using keywords, if you want to find an install a package? If not then how do you find the what is available and the exact package name? TIA Syd
On Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 10:48:45AM +0000, Syd Hancock wrote:
rpms are a pain though as just the other day i had to start using --nodeps to install things and spent a couple of hours looking for bits online to make stuff work.
As a linux beginner I have found Mandrake's urpmi very useful since it automatically handles finding and installing dependencies. From what I have read, the classic 'rpm' does sound much more tricky.
Related question: does debian's "apt" include a way to find what .debs are available or do you have to know in detail what you want first? What I mean is, is it possible to search the list(s) of sources, perhaps using keywords, if you want to find an install a package?
Yes. apt-cache is one such method. For example: [noodles@the ~]$ apt-cache search mailing list manager courier-mlm - Courier Mail Server mailing list manager ecartis - Fast, Flexible Mailing List Manager minimalist - a MINImalist MAiling LIST manager smartlist - Versatile and Intelligent List Processor sympa - Modern mailing list manager ezmlm-src - easy-to-use high-speed mailing list manager for qmail (source) mailman - Powerful, web-based mailing list manager You can then use "apt-cache show <package name>" to see the long description and dependencies. J. -- 101 things you can't have too much of : 25 - email.
Adam Bower <abower@thebowery.co.uk> wrote:
apt-get and the other bits is the most intuitive package installation system available. dselect on the other hand is quite evil so don't use it :)
Other front-ends are available. Synaptic is current flavour here, aptitude and console-apt have passed through in the past. I'm sure more will follow... maybe dselect will get the small UI tweaks one day. MJR
Laurie Brown wrote:
Adam Bower wrote:
On Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 09:59:01PM +0000, Paul wrote:
do a simple install (fire extinguisher to hand). Using dselect or apt-get (and friends) is far from intuitive.. Sorry Mark.
apt-get and the other bits is the most intuitive package installation system available. dselect on the other hand is quite evil so don't use it :)
Er, gentoo's portage system is pretty good, IMO...
Erm, I never said it wasn't, just because apt-get is good doesn't mean portage isn't.... the main problem with gentoo is the brokeness in the 1.4rc its not worth having it break every few days which it was a while back as it meant I could never get any work done. Adam
participants (9)
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Adam Bower -
Adam Bower -
Chris Glover -
Craig -
Jonathan McDowell -
Laurie Brown -
MJ Ray -
Paul -
Syd Hancock