Hello, My names Dave, and I'm a microsoft user. I've joined the group because I need to be reformed. One of the reasons that it has taken me so long to make the decision to convert, is that I work for the government who use everything Microsoft. I quite often bring work home with me, and I need compatibility with Office 2000. I'm also using office to do my dissertation and research work for my MA, and the university use office as well. When I chat with our IT department about Linux, they seem to know nothing about it (except for one particularly knowledgeble person), even when I go into computer shops, there is a lot of ignorance. Still, I'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty and playing with computers - I've been using computers since the early eighties at school and college, I just think that I've become lazy using a system that tries to do everything for you (badly most of the time!) In a way I really miss that hands-on computer work. So that's me introduced, I live in South West Suffolk (Cavendish if you know the area). I'm planning a dual system to start with, and then in the future, a complete conversion. I know very little about Linux at the moment, any suggestions for some introductory reading? Dave.
Yes your right, there is a lot of ignorance out there in "Specialist" Computer shops and IT departments Office Compatability is handled quite well by several Office clones in Linux (Staroffice etc) but none of these are truly 100% compatable. There is a very promising one comming to Linux soon (GoBe Productive) this is not free (however it is a LOT cheaper than Office and with a far more flexable licensing agreement), sadly again not 100% compatable, but very close Another alternative is to try running MS Office under Linux, see here http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,92043,00.asp That kind of defeats the point if you are trying to run away from the world of MS, but by the sounds of your mail that is not your objective, you just want to learn more about an alternative system, Right ? There are a few good books on Linux, I personally go for the O'Reilly ones myself. Reading is one thing but the best way is to install it and have a play, maybe referring to books or on-line documentation when you get stuck. It really is a lot easier to grasp now, than a few years ago, there are some very good distributions out there. Regards Wayne
Wayne Stallwood <wayne.stallwood@btinternet.com> wrote:
There is a very promising one comming to Linux soon (GoBe Productive) this is not free (however it is a LOT cheaper than Office and with a far more flexable licensing agreement), sadly again not 100% compatable, but very close
<beard-and-wild-eyes>This kind of defeats the point if you are trying to escape from the world of proprietary software. Being owned by a software house is still being owned, no matter which one it is.</beard-and-wild-eyes> Who's most up to date with the different office suites? Care to post something here (and possibly to the SoftwareDirectory in the contrib bit of the web site).
On Monday 29 April 2002 08:19, MJ Ray wrote:
<beard-and-wild-eyes>This kind of defeats the point if you are trying to escape from the world of proprietary software. Being owned by a software house is still being owned, no matter which one it is.</beard-and-wild-eyes>
That's were we differ them :o) I don't care about software being closed source unless it's running on a mission critical system, It's always nice to have the source but it's not always a factor in the choices I make (espicially with desktop apps, I'm far too busy to spend time fixing them). I don't mind paying for software if it's good for the job and reasonably priced with a licensing agreement that means that I can actually use it without breaking the law. Being owned by a software house is no worse than being owned by the Manufactuer of your Car (to supply you with spare parts) Award (or whoever wrote the software in your Bios) or Coca Cola (the ingredents list on the back of the can is NOT the same as source code :o) ) It's nice to at least have choices though, which for me is what Linux is all about. You accept all these things (unless you make your own beverages and drive a kit car) how is Software different ? I'm not saying it isn't, I just don't understand how. Now proprietary closed file formats....that's a different matter
Wayne Stallwood <wayne.stallwood@btinternet.com> wrote:
I don't care about software being closed source unless it's running on a mission critical system, It's always nice to have the source but it's not always a factor in the choices I make (espicially with desktop apps, I'm far too busy to spend time fixing them).
The issue isn't really about whether you want to fix them, but whether you have a free market in those fixes. With free software, you can ask any provider for a given fix; but with proprietary, you have a single supplier.
[...] I can actually use it without breaking the law.
Well, I keep seeing these "termination clauses" in many licences. So you may not be allowed to use it...
Being owned by a software house is no worse than being owned by the Manufactuer of your Car (to supply you with spare parts)
In addition to the free market in repairers mentioned elsewhere, there is also a near-free market in parts. For example, I use Champion wipers because I think the ones from the car's maker suck (or rather "don't wipe"). So, why isn't software like that? BIOS doesn't really count, as that's software too (and using a problem to justify itself is "odd") and Cola is a pain, but there are some recipes out there.
Ok, Point(s) taken :o) But I never said that I didn't think that having the source was good, it's great, I just don't make it the only factor in my software (or any other) choices.
Wayne Stallwood wrote:
Yes your right, there is a lot of ignorance out there in "Specialist" Computer shops and IT departments
Office Compatability is handled quite well by several Office clones in Linux (Staroffice etc) but none of these are truly 100% compatable.
There is a very promising one comming to Linux soon (GoBe Productive) this is not free (however it is a LOT cheaper than Office and with a far more flexable licensing agreement), sadly again not 100% compatable, but very close
Another alternative is to try running MS Office under Linux, see here
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,92043,00.asp
That kind of defeats the point if you are trying to run away from the world of MS, but by the sounds of your mail that is not your objective, you just want to learn more about an alternative system, Right ?
There are a few good books on Linux, I personally go for the O'Reilly ones myself. Reading is one thing but the best way is to install it and have a play, maybe referring to books or on-line documentation when you get stuck.
It really is a lot easier to grasp now, than a few years ago, there are some very good distributions out there.
Also... I received this today, and will be taking a look later:
Abiword 1.0.0 released
The Abiword word processor for GNOME has reached version 1.0.0, although not all download sites have caught up yet. Lean and efficient, with capable Microsoft Office import filters, the program is also available for Windows - so it might appeal to Office users who are looking for something less bloated and without the price gouge.
-- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Laurie Brown laurie@brownowl.com PGP key at http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
That kind of defeats the point if you are trying to run away from the world of MS, but by the sounds of your mail that is not your objective, you just want to learn more about an alternative system, Right ?
If I could safely do it, I'd love to get away from MS. But the dependance on the system at work and everywhere would probably cause me problems at the moment. What I want to do is try to do everything that I do now on Linux, and see whether I come across any terminal problems, if I don't, then there'll be a pile of billgates stuff in the bin. I'm particularly concerned about the way that MS is going, both its domineering in the market place, as well as the way the software is going - overpriced, underfunctioning, too fiddly, totally unstable etc. etc. Dave.
On Mon, Apr 29, 2002 at 07:59:26PM +0100, David Aldridge said:
If I could safely do it, I'd love to get away from MS. But the dependance on the system at work and everywhere would probably cause me problems at the moment. What I want to do is try to do everything that I do now on Linux, and see whether I come across any terminal problems, if I don't, then there'll be a pile of billgates stuff in the bin. I'm particularly concerned about the way that MS is going, both its domineering in the market place, as well as the way the software is going - overpriced, underfunctioning, too fiddly, totally unstable etc. etc.
I highly recommend trying Linux out in VMware? So that way you can try out Linux in a virtual window and practise. If things goes wrong, you can find out why etc. Just a thought :) -- (o_ .----------------------------------------. //\ | Craig Butcher | http://www.wizball.co.uk| V_/_ | - Using Debian GNU/Linux - | `----------------------------------------'
On Sun, Apr 28, 2002 at 09:28:01PM +0100, David Aldridge wrote:
I know very little about Linux at the moment, any suggestions for some introductory reading?
I found "Running Linux" by Matt Walsh good when I started. http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/156592469X/ref=sr_aps_books_1_1/202... -- ()= | Toby Jaffey : pkl.net/~trj //\ | grep... grep... grep... (Frog with UNIX stuck in its throat) v_/_ |
David Aldridge <dave@dmaz.demon.co.uk> wrote:
particularly knowledgeble person), even when I go into computer shops, there is a lot of ignorance.
There are a few computer shops who know about it, eg Home and Business in Gaywood, King's Lynn, but I'd be interested in hearing what people asking questions find out from the different shops. We should compile a FriendlyShopsDirectory on the web site.
[...] I'm planning a dual system to start with, and then in the future, a complete conversion.
I think duals are actually trickier, but then I've not got one ;-)
I know very little about Linux at the moment, any suggestions for some introductory reading?
http://www.tldp.org/ http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ http://www.linux.com/ For a reference work, I think O'Reilly's LPI Certification book is quite good. MJR
participants (6)
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Craig -
David Aldridge -
Laurie Brown -
MJ Ray -
Toby Jaffey -
Wayne Stallwood